Penn State sanction preditions

[GH2001]

Was that the graphic with TX, ND and PSU numbers?

If so, the numbers were "value of the football team" and "football profit".

I assume there is more in the "value" calculation than just simple revenue.

The figure I reported was an actual revenue number from last year. Not sure what went into that "Value" number. In other words, that fine is almost the same as their entire AD's gross revenue. Damn.

[JR4AU]

Was that the graphic with TX, ND and PSU numbers?

If so, the numbers were "value of the football team" and "football profit".

I assume there is more in the "value" calculation than just simple revenue.

It was, and maybe I assumed it meant "revenue".

[RWS]

On paper this may not be the death penalty, but as JR has said, PSU football is pretty much done for the next 10-15 years. They no longer have a Joe Pa type that is the face of the program (as he was before the scandal came to light). 10 scholarships a year over 4 years is massive. Especially when you figure in how many years it will take to restock that roster with legit talent after the 4 year period. Also figure the players that will ask the NCAA to be released from their scholarships, and granted waivers to transfer and play immediately elsewhere. And we both know that the NCAA will be more than happy to oblige. The money is huge, and gets only bigger when you factor in how much they will lose in donations, revenue, etc. Also figure in revenue lost from licensing, merchandising, etc etc.

[The Prowler]

The last 13 years have been wiped clean (remember that win, against that Top 5 program? Yeah, it didn't happen)

$60 Million fine to go to charity (The Big 10 added another $10 Million fine...That's more than their yearly income for the whole ath. Dept)

Loss of 10 Scholarships per year for 4 years (can only bring in 15 total...Big 10 rules, can only bring in the same number of graduating Seniors or players that leave early)

Loss of 20 Total Scholarships a year for 4 years (That puts them at 65 Scholarship players)

4 year postseason and bowl ban

Any player can transfer without penalty (This could put them well below 65 Scholarships.  It'll also affect the incoming classes...say that ALL of the Seniors and a few of the big named Juniors decide to transfer, PSU won't be able to hand out a scholarship for the upcoming class because they won't have anyone graduating or jumping early to the NFL)

This is the New Death Penalty

[RWS]

This is the New Death Penalty.

And now, they can attempt to use it in the future even if there is no violation. Scary.

[Saniflush]

The last 13 years have been wiped clean

Let's look at this year by year.

98 and 99

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=1995

00-04

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2000

05-09

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2005


10-11

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2010


Looks like 111 wins that go bye bye and not a one of them anyone will really care about.

[Tiger Wench]

And now, they can attempt to use it in the future even if there is no violation. Scary.

Here's another example that I had forgotten about - and while not on serial pedo levels, this was a MURDER case - still heinous.

Remember the 2003 murder of Baylor basketball player Patrick Dennehy by a former player, and head coach Dave Bliss' subsequent attempt to falsely portray Dennehy as a drug dealer to cover up for illegal tuition payments he'd made? Would Emmert (who was not yet with the NCAA at the time) step in if that indisputably heinous case arose today? If not, why? What's the threshold in determining whether something is special-jurisdiction-caliber repulsive or leave-it-to-the-enforcement-department-level disturbing?

[AUChizad]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rapid-reports/post/19640203

Auburn coach Gene Chizik found his program in the crosshairs of an NCAA investigation in the fall of 2010. Reports of illicit payments made during the recruitment of quarterback Cam Newton flooded in, but ultimately the NCAA found no wrongdoing by Auburn.

That's why Chizik is giving the NCAA and its president Mark Emmert the benefit of the doubt about the sanctions handed down to Penn State on Monday.

“Obviously, we don't have all the facts. The NCAA and Mark Emmert do have all the facts,” Chizik told ESPN on Monday. “That's one things I learned going through what we went through, is that there's a lot of outside opinion that look one way, but until you have all the information, you don't know.”

As for his advice for new Penn State coach Bill O'Brien, Chizik said crisis management will be a big part of what the staff must do in the coming days and weeks.

“He's going to have to have a plan,” Chizik said. “It's crisis mode. He's going to have to sit down with his staff and figure out where to go from here. The first thing they have to do is re-recruit their own football team.”

Chizik also touched on his own team. Auburn is coming off an 8-5 campaign and faces a major overhaul on offense with the departure of offensive coordinator Gus Malzahn and leading rusher Michael Dyer.

New offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler was brought in to reshape Tigers. Chizik said Loeffler not only brings extensive experience as a quarterbacks coach, but also a run-first mentality.

“Conceptually, as the head coach, I want to run the football at Auburn,” Chizik said. “And we found different ways to do that over the years. That's kind of where Scot Loeffler came from. He came from Michigan, he was with Lloyd Carr and that was kind of their mindset back then.

“He was Tim Tebow's coach at Florida for a couple of years, so he's got a little bit of what we've done in the previous three years in his background as well. We're going to do a little bit of everything, but we do have a very concise concept and a tight-knit idea of exactly what we want to do.”

[RWS]

Here's another example that I had forgotten about - and while not on serial pedo levels, this was a MURDER case - still heinous.

Exactly. People aren't really thinking about the implication that this decision has on future cases. The NCAA has now set precedent for itself. Even if a violation of bylaws was not committed, if they don't like what happened, they can try to strongarm you into something. And if you fight it, God help you down the road if a different violation really does come up. There have been times before where something that probably should be a violation came up, but wasn't in the bylaws. I've always applauded the NCAA for doing the right thing in those cases and realizing there is no bylaw that covers the situation, and no action is taken. Then they put it into the bylaws the following year. But this is a complete 180 from that. While I understand that what happened at PSU is absolutely horrible, it doesn't make it OK for the NCAA to go about it the way that they did in my opinion.

[Godfather]

Let's look at this year by year.

98 and 99

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=1995

00-04

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2000

05-09

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2005


10-11

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/penn_state/yearly_results.php?year=2010


Looks like 111 wins that go bye bye and not a one of them anyone will really care about.

The Paterno family cares, that is the only reason they did it was to take the wins away from Joe.

[GH2001]

Exactly. People aren't really thinking about the implication that this decision has on future cases. The NCAA has now set precedent for itself. Even if a violation of bylaws was not committed, if they don't like what happened, they can try to strongarm you into something. And if you fight it, God help you down the road if a different violation really does come up. There have been times before where something that probably should be a violation came up, but wasn't in the bylaws. I've always applauded the NCAA for doing the right thing in those cases and realizing there is no bylaw that covers the situation, and no action is taken. Then they put it into the bylaws the following year. But this is a complete 180 from that. While I understand that what happened at PSU is absolutely horrible, it doesn't make it OK for the NCAA to go about it the way that they did in my opinion.

 

Did you miss the part where PSU consented to this? That's what allowed this penalty to happen. Hearing you or any other Bammer start refencing NCAA rules and bylaws is like getting advice to quit drinking from an alcoholic.

[RWS]

Did you miss the part where PSU consented to this? That's what allowed this penalty to happen. Hearing you or any other Bammer start refencing NCAA rules and bylaws is like getting advice to quit drinking from an alcoholic.

I didn't miss that part at all. What choice did they have? If they try to fight it, they are going to be further bastardized in the media and public opinion, and it will be a PR nightmare. PSU wants this done and over with. Plus, if they did not consent to this, I can imagine that the NCAA would be licking their chops for when PSU actually did commit a violation down the road. The NCAA doesn't forget. The only reason that they didn't get the real death penalty is because they wouldn't consent to it, and the NCAA knows that they can't impose it otherwise.

[The Prowler]

They would've been better off voluntarily taking the Death Penalty starting with the 2013 season, for two years.  Everyone keeps talking about how it destoryed SMU and that they haven't been the same since. Really? Think about it. The only reason why SMU was so ”good” in the first place was due to cheating, what were they before the cheating started? Texas & Texas A&M's bitch that's what (this was because UT & A&M were cheating first, along with OU...but that's beside the point). The point is, SMU went back to what they were before the cheating started, which is what was suppose to happen.

The Old Death Penalty would be devastating, just like this will be (PSU will become a D I-AA University starting with the 2013 season, their max scholarship numbers? 63...two shy of PSU's 65 starting with the '13 season)...also, they can only bring in 15 total (provided that the number they bring in isn't more than their 65 limit).

AND....this will continue for FOUR YEARS. Multiply that by 2 maybe 3, that's how long it'll take to fully recover, if it ever does.

[RWS]

They would've been better off voluntarily taking the Death Penalty starting with the 2013 season, for two years.  Everyone keeps talking about how it destoryed SMU and that they haven't been the same since. Really? Think about it. The only reason why SMU was so ”good” in the first place was due to cheating, what were they before the cheating started? Texas & Texas A&M's bitch that's what (this was because UT & A&M were cheating first, along with OU...but that's beside the point). The point is, SMU went back to what they were before the cheating started, which is what was suppose to happen.

Yeah, but PSU wasn't giving improper benefits to players or anything, so I'm not really seeing the comparison. PSU didn't get the wins by cheating. It's strictly punitive, and isn't a "leveling the playing field" type move as it was against SMU. Sure, this will have the same effect as it did on SMU, but the penalties were given for two completely different reasons.

[Pell City Tiger]

Dickhead, there are 3 sure fire ways to guarantee this type of punishment never finds its way to your school. They are:

1. Don't pay your players (SMU)
2. Don't let your coaches fuck little kids within the athletic complex. If they do, go straight to the police and don't try to cover up the crime. (PSU)
and
3. Remember that a school is an institution of learning first. Don't let the Coach have more power than anyone else on campus, and don't worship the guy like he's some kind of god. (Y'all may want to check your six in this regard. I'm not saying, I'm just saying)

Ensure these 3 things are in check, and you should be pretty safe from sanctions. Fuck around and let any (or all 3 of these things to happen), then you deserve whatever you get.

[The Prowler]

Yeah, but PSU wasn't giving improper benefits to players or anything, so I'm not really seeing the comparison. PSU didn't get the wins by cheating. It's strictly punitive, and isn't a "leveling the playing field" type move as it was against SMU. Sure, this will have the same effect as it did on SMU, but the penalties were given for two completely different reasons.

I wasn't comparing the violations between SMU & PSU, dumbass. I just stated how everyone says that the ”Death Penalty” will never be handed down again, because look what it did to SMU. That's nearly word for word what's said after anyone mentions ”Double Penetration”. It didn't crush SMU, it straightened them out...they don't cheat like they once did and they were back to what they once were, a few years after restarting the program back up (hint: a nobody).

[Saniflush]

I wasn't comparing the violations between SMU & PSU, dumbass. I just stated how everyone says that the ”Death Penalty” will never be handed down again, because look what it did to SMU. That's nearly word for word what's said after anyone mentions ”Double Penetration”. It didn't crush SMU, it straightened them out...they don't cheat like they once did and they were back to what they once were, a few years after restarting the program back up (hint: a nobody).

I'm not sure how well you remember that time.  That entire conference was dirty as fuck from head to toe.  It is pretty well accepted that the penalties SMU received could have just as easily been handed down to half the teams in the SWC.  Baylor was cheating like hell for  Christ's sake.



BAYLOR!

[The Six]

I'm not sure how well you remember that time.  That entire conference was dirty as fuck from head to toe.  It is pretty well accepted that the penalties SMU received could have just as easily been handed down to half the teams in the SWC.  Baylor was cheating like hell for  Christ's sake.

Never thought about it but in some sort of twisted way, yes, they were.

Nice work.

[GH2001]

I'm not sure how well you remember that time.  That entire conference was dirty as fuck from head to toe.  It is pretty well accepted that the penalties SMU received could have just as easily been handed down to half the teams in the SWC.  Baylor was cheating like hell for  Christ's sake.



BAYLOR!

Texas and Arky were dirty as hell too. It seemed like more a case of SMU's Oil Boosters were shelling out more than theirs were. Sour grapes. SMU had an official fucking payroll for their players and were not even trying to hide it. They took it to another level, were warned twice and still kept cheating. A program reset was the only option.

[AUChizad]

Never thought about it but in some sort of twisted way, yes, they were.

Nice work.

I see what you did there. A rare nice hustle from Sensible...