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This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy

GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2009, 01:21:06 PM »
Well, GarMan, you and Obama agree. How does that sit with you?
I think a lot of people agree that MJ legalization wouldn't improve the economy.  You don't have to be a genius for that one.  Although, it might stump some folks in between bong hits... 

I like how he said "I don't know what this says about the online audience..." 
Actually, I think it's pretty sad to see a President even address the idea and a major news outlet spend anymore than 5 seconds on the topic.  But, that's just me...  One of those haven't-touched-pot-in-20-years-because-I-know-better folks... 

How about it says that when people have any degree of anonymity, they feel strongly that marijuana should be legalized?
Wow...  If people felt that strongly about gay marriage...   :taunt:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #121 on: April 03, 2009, 01:41:44 PM »
2. GarMan found ONE study that warns of the dangers of marijuana in adolescence. Well, no shit, it would remain illegal for the underaged, just like alcohol.
HEY HIT-AND-RUN,
Actually, I've posted several links to articles with references to countless studies.  If you're going to play with the big boys, let's get it right or at least, keep it honest.  You're welcome to refute the science.  I don't really give a shit.  I'm actually interested in having an honest debate on this topic, but it seems that many are incapable of doing so.  Tiger88 can't keep a coherent thought long enough or express himself appropriately to make any sense in many of his posts.  You have the debate tactics of a 12 year old constantly pushing my positions to unreasonable extremes, selectively ignoring words in many of my posts and bringing in unrelated arguments like "safer than alchohol" that the pro-pot community likes to float. 

The guts of my original post in this thread still stand....
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There are serious longer term affects to the brain.  You can research THC, hippocampus, learning, cognitive ability, memory, emotional response and motivational response for additional information, but the evidence of its adverse affects is far more conclusive than arguments for glow-bull warming, the safety of organic foods, the dangers of asbestos and lead-based paint. 

My personal concern is the result of its legalization on the capability, capacity and mental stability of future generations.  Studies have shown that those who have used between the ages of 14 to 24, when the brain is developing more advanced functions such as those mentioned above, suffer from more serious longer term affects.  Basically, they're handicapping themselves.  They might be able to hold down a job, but you’re not typically going to find them performing open-heart surgery, designing a spaceship or developing a new source of energy.  In fact, you're probably won't even find them running companies, serving on corporate boards, or performing in the top 20% or our nation's producers.  The damage caused by THC during those years of brain development is irreversible.  In fact, any damage brought about by the occasional use of THC is irreversible regardless of age.  It's just more pronounced in those who have "experimented" during those developmental years.

And, the conclusion of my original post is overwhelmingly obvious...
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Why handicap yourself?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #122 on: April 03, 2009, 02:14:45 PM »
Because, SOME drugs are in fact harmful. SOME are addicting. Marijuana is not one of those. A substantial percentage of Americans smoke pot and stop there, despite your gateway drug fallacy.
There you go again!  Did I ever debate the gateway drug argument?  There you go with that brush and that straw-man... 

I personally drink at least three nights a week, smoke cigars on rare occasion, have smoked marijuana few enough times to count on one hand, and have never partaken in any other recreation drug (including cigarettes) in my life. To say that I'm biased toward MJ over alcohol is a complete and utter joke.
Point?  Why post this?  This means nothing.  I never claimed that you had a bias towards MJ.  Are you swinging that brush around again?

It is ridiculous, isn't it? He used it as an illustration on how ridiculous your accusations against marijuana are.
  No...  Actually, it's like bringing up alcohol, sugar or tobacco in this discussion. 

You guys didn't do so well on the comparison/contrast portion of the SAT's did you?
Who's "You guys"?  You and your damn stereotypes...  You don't compare/contrast to win debates like this.  You present logical arguments and back them up with factual evidence, rather than opinions of your misguided perceptions. 

You can agree that something like saturated fats are similarly as harmful as marijuana, yet you still are so adamant about it remaining illegal...
No...  I can't agree.  I can't agree that anything belongs in this discussion other than facts about the substance being discussed.  Alcohol doesn't belong in this discussion.  Neither do sugar, tobacco, bears, Mack trucks and Cobras... 

So your whole thing is "Every law is perfect, and shouldn't be questioned." Pot's illegal now (we've been over exactly why that is, not rehashing), so it's bad. Alcohol is legal now, so it's good. Again, in 1930 you would have been a staunch prohibitionist, clearly.
No, no and no... 
There are lots of bad laws, rules and regulations out there, and many need to be overturned.
It is my opinion that Cannabis should remain illegal because of the modern science on the topic.  The affects to brain development are real.  There are countless articles and countless studies, and some have been posted here.  'Nuff said...
AS for alcohol in the 1930s, it would have depended on the science of the time.  That's it.  Nothing more...  Nothing less...  Knowing what I know now, with hindsight being 20/20, I would have built a Kennedy-sized empire or left the country. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 02:17:42 PM by GarMan »
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Tarheel

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #123 on: April 03, 2009, 02:15:11 PM »
Of all things to accuse marijuana of doing, destroying a sense of humor? Virtually every comedian in the history of...Oh I see...That was another joke.
...

And here we go...again...this arrogant, know-it-all, condescending, attitude of yours on this subject...AGAIN...this is the reason why I'm not wasting my time arguing with you on this subject.  

Pardon the pun but there seems to be no reasoning with you at all.  You can't see past that roach-clip, laws are what made civilization, not the 'do what you want to because it feels good' attitude of many libertarians, but that's another subject; you make no convincing arguments for legalization in my opinion (too fucking bad if you have a problem with that); and you can't seem to appreciate or even read anything arguing to the other side because of your bias (and, yes, to a certain extent I can say the same about myself - which is far more than you would probably ever admit to - not to mention the fact that there's real science behind the arguments against the use of MJ hence the laws for making it illegal).

But...AGAIN...why bother.  Call your congressman...or senators...if you want it legalized...maybe they'll care because I certainly don't.  I'm glad it's illegal to use and possess (in most sane areas of America) and I hope that it stays that way.  But if it doesn't it'll be just another log on the roaring funeral pyre of Amerika.

No, I'm not going to call out (or single out) anyone for the referenced comment.  In hindsight the comment that I made was too personal so I'll take it no further (it was not made by you in case that's what you're concerned about).  If you have a problem with that...then too fucking bad.  

While we're on that issue though the subject of the thread on which it appeared had no immediate relevance to the referenced comment which is why I started a new thread; to hopefully educate everyone on the root cause of the so-called financial crisis.  So, call off teh ebay nazis, I didn't break any protocols of The X.

Sorry that I "called you a name" by the way...tell the teacher.*

(I realize that's a disingenuous apology but it's more than what I got from you.)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 05:23:50 PM by Tarheel »
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Saniflush

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #124 on: April 03, 2009, 02:17:26 PM »
There are protocols here that don't involve Jumbo and a dog? 

Hmmmf.  Who knew.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2009, 12:38:06 PM »
Or, the bong they just hit...


Well, no one is supposed to operate a vehicle after drinking or doing prescription drugs, or smoking pot. You are mixing two arguments here.
n
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This makes no sense...  You're the one arguing for legalization with wild-assed claims that you can't seem to prove with reference-able facts.  Why do I need to look this up?  You made the assertion.  Prove it!  That's all.  Making an opinionated statement without facts to back it up is ridiculous.

Go back and re-read what I said that you quoted here and if you still feel this way then so be it.  I will look for it when I feel like it. The stats are not easy to find.
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Let's try this again...  If you're a criminal with an infrastructure that supports the distribution and sale of MJ, what makes you believe that the legalization of MJ will stop the criminal from performing criminal activities?  Why wouldn't the criminal just move to cocaine, meth or other illegal narcotics? 
That might be good. They could war it up with the already existing cartels and many on both sides would die and society would be better off.
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Again, this makes no sense.  Why stop at pot?  If the war on drugs is such a waste, why not legalize everything? 
It's a slippery slope. The effects of mj are simply less destructive than the effects of the other drugs. Also, the other drugs tend to create erratic and violent behavior in many that use them. Much more so than even alcohol. Part of me does say legalize them all, to an extent at least. A bigger part of me would never want to see meth legalized. 
Why just mj?  Because it is relatively harmless, especially compared to acohol and even a lot of prescription drugs. I have already provided  fbi stats that show that 40% of ALL drug arrests made each year are for simple mj possession. It is a tremendous and unneeded strain on law enforcement that could be virtually eliminated with the swipe of a pen. The truth is that most people I have known over the years would be fine with just smoking pot. 
Mj is much less harmful than other drugs and takes up a ridiculous amount of law enforcements time that could be spent constructively protecting the public.
 
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 I could also argue the affect of pot on the fuel efficiency of Mack trucks is negligible compared to the impact that sugar bares on the industry, but that has no value to this discussion...  Neither does sugar... 
Listen, I'm not going to spend my time surfing the web for all sorts of info. to educate you where you are lacking. That is either your job or someone other than mine. Sugar is much like a drug. The way that white sugar is refined is similar to the way some drugs are refined. Have you ever known anyone that went on one of those no sugar diets? I mean NO SUGAR at all. Nothing that even contains even trace amounts of sugar.  They go into withdrawals like you wouldn't believe. Not as strong as heroin withdrawls but they are profound, noe the less. It takes most people a minimum of four to five days to come out of it, then they feel much better than they did before.
Anyone who thinks sugar is not addictive is a fool. Our healthcare costs rise every year and sugar has a lot to do with it. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. etc. etc.
My point is that the effect that mj has on our society is much less than that of sugar. I think it's true. Do I think sugar should be made illegal? No. Do I think our country would be better off if sugar were illegal as opposed to mj? Yes.
Now, babble on about mack trucks if you must.
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I see we need another online tutorial on how to use the Quote function...
Here's your fucking cookie, oh master of the quote function.  :eyeroll: :taunt:
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Why stop there?  Saturated fats are bad too!  If pot was already legal, I would likely not argue for making it illegal.  Along the same lines, I would not argue for the illegalization of tobacco or alcohol because pot is illegal.  There's no logic to any of those arguments.  But, I'm still going to enjoy some lead-based paint chips with my cigar tonight.   :thumbsup:
It is amazing that you attack others logic and keep falling back on this ridiculous, pot is already illegal so it should stay that way argument. Your logic train here is so broken it is amazing you can't see that. Using that type of logic one could assume that no law had ever been repealed that benefited us as a country. It falls right in line with the "if it should be legal it already would be" line of logic you used earlier then denied it when I confronted you with it.
Using that flawed logic, we could freeze all laws right now and never add or take away another one. The strength of that argument is jealous of the strength of puppy piss.
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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #126 on: April 04, 2009, 12:58:26 PM »
I stole this from aunation but had laready seen it on the news and wanted to post it in this thread.

Just the beginning?

House votes to put tobacco under FDA control
The agency would be able to reject new products, restrict advertising and limit nicotine levels. Some senators threaten filibuster.
By Rebecca Cole
April 3, 2009
Reporting from Washington -- The House on Thursday voted to give the Food and Drug Administration unprecedented powers to regulate the tobacco industry.

The measure would allow the FDA to reject new tobacco products, restrict advertising and take other steps. It passed easily, 298 to 112, but may face a filibuster in the Senate.

Anti-smoking groups have clamored for years for the government to exert more control over the industry.

"This is truly a historic day in the fight against tobacco, and I am proud that we have taken such decisive action," said House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry A. Waxman (D-Beverly Hills) in a statement.

Since 2000, when the Supreme Court ruled that the FDA did not have the authority to regulate tobacco products, Waxman and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) have taken turns submitting legislation to give the FDA control. A similar bill Waxman introduced last year also passed the House, but it languished in a Senate subcommittee after President Bush vowed to veto it.


Now, with the backing of President Obama, whose own struggles to quit smoking are well documented, the measure stands a better chance of becoming law, advocates said.

However, senators from some tobacco-growing states are lining up to oppose it, with Richard M. Burr (R-N.C.) threatening a filibuster.

The bill would give the FDA wide-ranging control over tobacco products, including the elimination of harmful additives as well as candylike flavorings appealing to children. .

The bill would also allow the FDA to regulate nicotine levels and prohibit potentially healthy-sounding terms like "light" and "mild" in product descriptions.

The bill would not let the FDA ban tobacco products or nicotine.

The leaders of several major public health groups -- including the American Medical Assn., the American Lung Assn. and the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids -- endorsed the legislation.

Some House members who opposed the measure advocated smoking-cessation efforts instead.

During floor debate, Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.) argued that consumers might infer from an FDA stamp of approval that the tobacco products were safe.

Buyer also said that the cash-strapped FDA couldn't handle regulating another huge industry.

He advocated housing the program within the Health and Human Services Department.

But Waxman dismissed Buyer's concerns, saying that because the program would be funded by a fee levied on the tobacco industry, it would not divert resources from other FDA functions.

"We shouldn't delay this long-overdue measure based on a misplaced concern about the FDA's other resource challenges," he said.

Dr. David Kessler, who headed the FDA under President Clinton, said the legislation would provide the right tools to thwart the addictive cues -- in marketing claims and in the products themselves -- that the tobacco industry has for years used to hook people.

"It is as near perfect a bill as we have had over the last two decades," he said.

Kessler pointed to the culture shift the country has undergone since Waxman first introduced legislation nearly two decades ago.

"Where once we saw smoking as something glamorous and pleasurable," Kessler said, "now we see it as a deadly addictive product."

Tobacco giant Philip Morris is also behind the bill. Altria Group Inc., Philip Morris' parent company, said in a statement that it supports "tough but reasonable federal regulation of tobacco products" and that the company would "monitor and engage on this legislation" as it makes its way through Congress.
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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #127 on: April 05, 2009, 10:40:07 AM »
It took like one second of googling to find this article. I can post 100's more if necessary. That might take another minute though.

The horrific facts on sugar

 SUGAR - ITS EFFECTS ON THE BODY & MIND
notes from various sources Back 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Hidden Story of Big Sugar

These videos explore the dark history and modern power of the world's reigning sugar cartels. Using dramatic reenactments, they reveal how sugar was at the heart of slavery in the West Indies in the 18th century, while showing how present-day consumers are slaves to a sugar-based diet.

 Of all the foods consumed today, refined sugar is considered to be one of the most harmful.

...In 1997 Americans devoured 7.3 billion pounds of candy. Americans spent an estimated $23.1 billion dollars on candy and gum. The average American consumed a record 27.3 pounds of candy and gum in the same year-the equivalent of about six regular sized chocolate bars a week-marking the fifth consecutive year of increased demand. (1)

...Consumption of processed foods (which are laced with sugar) cost the American public more than $54 billion in dental bills each year, so the dental industry reaps huge profits from the programmed addiction of the public to sugar products.

...Today we have a nation that is addicted to sugar. In 1915, the national average of sugar consumption (per year) was around 15 to 20 pounds per person. Today the average person consumes his/her weight in sugar, plus over 20 pounds of corn syrup.

To add more horrors to these facts there are some people that use no sweets and some who use much less than the average figure, which means that there is a percentage of the population that consume a great deal more refined sugar than their body weight. The human body cannot tolerate this large amount of refined carbohydrates. The vital organs in the body are actually damaged by this gross intake of sugar.

...Refined sugar contains no fiber, no minerals, no proteins, no fats, no enzymes, only empty calories. What happens when you eat a refined carbohydrate like sugar? Your body must borrow vital nutrients from healthy cells to metabolize the incomplete food. Calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium are taken from various parts of the body to make use of the sugar. Many times, so much calcium is used to neutralize the effects of sugar that the bones become osteoporotic due to the withdrawn calcium.

Likewise, the teeth are affected and they lose their components until decay occurs and hastens their loss.

...Refined sugar is void of all nutrients, consequently it causes the body to deplete its own stores of various vitamins, minerals and enzymes. If sugar consumption is continued, an over-acid condition results, and more minerals are needed from deep in the body to correct the imbalance. If the body is lacking the nutrients used to metabolize sugar, it will not be able to properly handle and rid itself of the poisonous residues.

These wastes accumulate through the brain and nervous system, which speeds up cellular death. The bloodstream becomes over-loaded with waste products and symptoms of carbonic poisoning result.

...Sugar also makes the blood very thick and sticky, inhibiting much of the blood flow into the minute capillaries that supply our gums and teeth with vital nutrients. Therefore, we wind up with diseased gums and starving teeth. America and England, the two largest sugar consumers, have horrendous dental problems.

...In 1948, a $57,000 ten-year study was awarded to Harvard University by the Sugar Research Foundation to find out how sugar causes cavities in teeth and how to prevent it. In 1958, Time magazine reported the findings, which were reported in the Dental Association Journal. They discovered there was no way to prevent the problem and their funding immediately disappeared.

...“The most significant human study was done in Sweden, reported in 1954, and known as the Vipeholm Dental Caries Study. More than 400 adult mental patients were placed on controlled diets and observed for five years. The subjects were divided into various groups. Some ate complex and simple carbohydrates at mealtimes only, while other supplemented mealtime food with between-meal-snacks, sweetened with sucrose, chocolate, caramel, or toffee.

Among the conclusions drawn from the study, was that sucrose consumption could increase caries activity. The risk increased if the sucrose was consumed in a sticky form that adhered to the tooth’s surfaces. The greatest damage was inflicted by foods with high concentrations of sucrose, in sticky form, eaten between meals, even if contact with the tooth’s surfaces was brief. Caries, due to the intake of foods with high sucrose levels, could be decreased when such offending foods were eliminated from the diet.

But individual differences existed, and in some cases, caries continued to appear despite avoidance of refined sugar or maximum restriction of natural sugars and total dietary carbohydrates.” (2)

...Diabetes is another commonly known disease caused by sugar as well as a high fat diet. Diabetes is caused by the failure of the pancreas to produce adequate insulin when the blood sugar rises. A concentrated amount of sugar introduced into the system sends the body into shock from the rapid rise in the blood sugar level. The pancreas eventually wears out from overwork and diabetes then rears its ugly head.

...Hypoglycemia occurs when the pancreas overreacts to the large amount of sugar in the blood and releases too much insulin leaving one with the “tired” feeling as the blood sugar level becomes lower than it should be.

“A recent article in the British Medical Journal, entitled The Sweet Road to Gallstones, reported that refined sugar may be one of the major dietary risk factors in gallstone disease. Gallstones are composed of fats and calcium. Sugar can upset all of the minerals, and one of the minerals, calcium, can become toxic or nonfunctioning, depositing itself anywhere in the body, including the gallbladder.

...“One out of ten Americans has gallstones. This risk increases to one out of every five after age forty. Gallstones may go unnoticed or may cause pain-wrenching pain. Other symptoms might include bloating, belching, and intolerance to foods.” (3)

...Another serious problem with sugar that is now coming to the forefront is the various levels of mental problems. Our brains are very sensitive and react to quick chemical changes within the body. As sugar is consumed, our cells are robbed of their B vitamin, which destroys them, and insulin production is inhibited. Low insulin production means a high sugar (glucose) level in the bloodstream, which can lead to a confused mental state or unsound mind, and has also been linked with juvenile criminal behavior.

Dr. Alexander G. Schauss, brings this solemn fact out in his book, Diet, Crime and Delinquency. Many mental ward and prison inmates are “sugarholics” and erratic emotional outbreaks often follow a sugar binge.

REFINED SUGAR-A DRUG?

...Refined sugar, by some, is called a drug, because in the refining process everything of food value has been removed except the carbohydrates-pure calories, without vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats, enzymes or any of the other elements that make up food. Many nutrition experts say that white sugar is extremely harmful, possibly as harmful as a drug, especially in the quantities consumed by the present-day American.

...Dr. David Reuben, author of Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Nutrition says, “…white refined sugar-is not a food. It is a pure chemical extracted from plant sources, purer in fact than cocaine, which it resembles in many ways. Its true name is sucrose and its chemical formula is C12H22O11.

It has 12 carbon atoms, 22 hydrogen atoms, 11 oxygen atoms, and absolutely nothing else to offer.” ...The chemical formula for cocaine is C17H21NO4. Sugar’s formula again is C12H22O11. For all practical purposes, the difference is that sugar is missing the “N”, or nitrogen atom. ...Refining means to make “pure” by a process of extraction or separation. Sugars are refined by taking a natural food, which contains a high percentage of sugar, and then removing all elements of that food until only the sugar remains. ...While sugar is commonly made from sugar cane or sugar beets.

Through heating and mechanical and chemical processing, all vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats, enzymes and indeed every nutrient is removed until only the sugar remains. Sugar cane and sugar beets are first harvested and then chopped into small pieces, squeezing out the juice, which is then mixed with water. This liquid is then heated, and lime is added.

Moisture is boiled away, and the remaining fluid is pumped into vacuum pans to concentrate the juice. By this time, the liquid is starting to crystallize, and is ready to be placed into a centrifuge machine where any remaining residues (like molasses) are spun away. The crystals are then dissolved by heating to the boiling point and passed through charcoal filters.

After the crystals condense, they are bleached snow-white usually by the use of pork or cattle bones. ...During the refining process, 64 food elements are destroyed. All the potassium, magnesium, calcium, iron, manganese, phosphate, and sulfate are removed. The A, D, and B, vitamins are destroyed.

Amino acids, vital enzymes, unsaturated fats, and all fiber are gone. To a lesser or greater degree, all refined sweeteners such as corn syrup, maple syrup, etc., undergo similar destructive processes. Molasses is the chemical and deranged nutrients that is a byproduct of sugar manufacture.

...Sugar manufacturers are aggressive in defending their product and have a strong political lobby which allows them to continue selling a deadly food item that by all reason should not be allowed in the American diet.

...If you have any doubts as to the detriments of sugar (sucrose), try leaving it out of your diet for several weeks and see if it makes a difference! You may also notice you have acquired an addiction and experience some withdrawal symptoms.

...Studies show that “sugar” is just as habit-forming as any narcotic; and its use, misuse, and abuse is our nation’s number one disaster.

It is no wonder when we consider all the products we consume daily which are loaded with sugar! The average healthy digestive system can digest and eliminate from two to four teaspoons of sugar daily, usually without noticeable problems, (that is if damage is not already present).

One 12 oz. Cola contains 11 teaspoons of sugar, and that’s aside from the caffeine. It’s the sugar that gives you quick energy, but only for a brief time due to the rise of the blood sugar level. But the body quickly releases a rush of insulin, which rapidly lowers the blood sugar and causes a significant drop in energy and endurance. It is easy to see why America’s health is in serious trouble.

-- top^

EFFECT OF SUGAR ON NEUROLOGICAL PROCESSES ...One of the keys to orderly brain function is glutamic acid, and this compound is found in many vegetables. When sugar is consumed, the bacteria in the intestines, which manufacture B vitamin complexes, begin to die-these bacteria normally thrive in a symbiotic relationship with the human body. When the B vitamin complex level declines, the glutamic acid (normally transformed into “go” “no-go” directive neural enzymes by the B vitamins) is not processed and sleepiness occurs, as well as a decreased ability for short-term memory function and numerical calculative abilities. The removal of B vitamins when foods are “processed” makes the situation even more tenuous.

-- top^

WHAT ABOUT GUM CHEWING? ...Besides the sugar in gum being damaging to the teeth there is another harmful problem to consider and that is: “teeth and jaws weren’t designed for more than a few minutes of solid chewing per day-far less than the two hours clocked in daily by hardcore gum chewers. All this chewing results in inordinate wear on the jawbone, gum tissue and lower molars, and can change the alignment of the jaws” says Michael Elsohn, D.D.S., in the Medical Tribune.
 
 
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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #128 on: April 05, 2009, 11:09:26 AM »
Here is an article that shows we are currently locking up between 12 and 14 % of state and federal inmates for mj related offenses. This adds up to over one billion / yr for that alone. Throw in the obscene amount of arrests for possession and the costs nears 10 billion /yr. Thios article also hits on the fact that casual smokers are the biggest target of the war on drugs as 42% of all drug arrests are for mj possession.

The absurdity continues

Still cant find the exact stats on %'s by crime. I am done looking for now. There is no doubt in my mind that when you throw in local and county jails, that one in four prisoners in jail for mj are there for possession. The one in six (prisoners in jail for mj) I provided earlier from an article may be a little off but not much at all.

One interesting theme I found several times while googling is that while violent crime %'s have been decreasing for years, incareration rates have been skyrocketing. Hmmm.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 11:24:59 AM by tiger88 »
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GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #129 on: April 06, 2009, 12:28:28 PM »
Well, no one is supposed to operate a vehicle after drinking or doing prescription drugs, or smoking pot. You are mixing two arguments here.
n
Of course, but it's on par with the "victimless" position of MJ use.  It may be a little more obvious with the easily identifiable reckless endangerment argument, but nobody's an immediate victim. 

Go back and re-read what I said that you quoted here and if you still feel this way then so be it.  I will look for it when I feel like it. The stats are not easy to find.
If you used it as a supporting evidence to your argument, surely you have a reference.  Don't you? 

That might be good. They could war it up with the already existing cartels and many on both sides would die and society would be better off.
That might be bad.  Pricing wars between various drug cartels and street pushers could result in the cost of harder drugs dropping below the theoretical legal price of MJ.  The point here is that they illegal operations wouldn't become legal or disappear with MJ legalization.  They would just move to the harder stuff and risk exposure of more harmful and dangerous narcotics to everyone. 

It's a slippery slope. The effects of mj are simply less destructive than the effects of the other drugs. Also, the other drugs tend to create erratic and violent behavior in many that use them. Much more so than even alcohol. Part of me does say legalize them all, to an extent at least. A bigger part of me would never want to see meth legalized. 
And, I agree with you on that, but building on my argument above, if you legalize MJ, wouldn't you also be forcing those who already participate in the trafficking and distribution of MJ to move to the harder stuff?  Wouldn’t this increased flow of harder drugs be even a greater danger to society?

Why just mj?  Because it is relatively harmless, especially compared to acohol and even a lot of prescription drugs. I have already provided  fbi stats that show that 40% of ALL drug arrests made each year are for simple mj possession. It is a tremendous and unneeded strain on law enforcement that could be virtually eliminated with the swipe of a pen. The truth is that most people I have known over the years would be fine with just smoking pot. 
Mj is much less harmful than other drugs and takes up a ridiculous amount of law enforcements time that could be spent constructively protecting the public.
A claim of some FBI stat doesn't make it fact.  Post it.  Prove it.  Show me.  I need evidence.  I also wonder how many of these MJ users actually only use MJ, and how many of those innocent MJ pushers just push MJ, and how many of those innocent MJ traffickers just push MJ...  Just some things to consider... 

  Listen, I'm not going to spend my time surfing the web for all sorts of info. to educate you where you are lacking. That is either your job or someone other than mine. Sugar is much like a drug. The way that white sugar is refined is similar to the way some drugs are refined. Have you ever known anyone that went on one of those no sugar diets? I mean NO SUGAR at all. Nothing that even contains even trace amounts of sugar.  They go into withdrawals like you wouldn't believe. Not as strong as heroin withdrawls but they are profound, noe the less. It takes most people a minimum of four to five days to come out of it, then they feel much better than they did before.
Anyone who thinks sugar is not addictive is a fool. Our healthcare costs rise every year and sugar has a lot to do with it. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. etc. etc.
My point is that the effect that mj has on our society is much less than that of sugar. I think it's true. Do I think sugar should be made illegal? No. Do I think our country would be better off if sugar were illegal as opposed to mj? Yes.
Now, babble on about mack trucks if you must.  
Now look, you've made claims, and all I've asked is for proof.  You've pulled sugar into the discussion.  Again, all I've asked is for proof.  If I told you that dog shit was safer than baby food, would you honestly start feeding your baby dog shit?  I mean seriously...  You're going to want a little more proof than just my claims before you even touch dog shit.  At least, I would hope so. 

Here's your fucking cookie, oh master of the quote function.  :eyeroll: :taunt: 
Have fun with it!  Don't get your panties in a wad like that hit-and-run guy who slings shit and cries foul at every turn.  Enjoy the board for what it is.  If you're not having fun teasing and poking one another :poke:, you're on the wrong board. 

It is amazing that you attack others logic and keep falling back on this ridiculous, pot is already illegal so it should stay that way argument. Your logic train here is so broken it is amazing you can't see that. Using that type of logic one could assume that no law had ever been repealed that benefited us as a country. It falls right in line with the "if it should be legal it already would be" line of logic you used earlier then denied it when I confronted you with it.
Using that flawed logic, we could freeze all laws right now and never add or take away another one. The strength of that argument is jealous of the strength of puppy piss.
You obviously don't understand.  Did I say, "pot is already illegal so it should stay that way"?  And once again, I never said "if it should be legal it already would be".  That's just your weak understanding of my position, and I'm not going to explain it again.  I'm waiting for another bible thumper accusation... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #130 on: April 06, 2009, 12:34:37 PM »
It took like one second of googling to find this article. I can post 100's more if necessary. That might take another minute though.

The horrific facts on sugar
You can find anything on the Internet these days, but what about saturated fats?  Wrestling with bears?  And, biting the heads off Cobras? 

Do you honestly believe that sugar consumption versus cannabis consumption are even comparable arguments? 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #131 on: April 06, 2009, 02:39:37 PM »
Of course, but it's on par with the "victimless" position of MJ use.  It may be a little more obvious with the easily identifiable reckless endangerment argument, but nobody's an immediate victim. 
Wrong. Endangerment is a crime. When you drive drunk you are needlessly and recklessly endangering those around you regardless of whether they end up affected or not. Reckless driving is a crime because you know that if you let enough yahoos drive recklessly people are going to get needlessly hurt. Same with dui. Smoking pot in the privacy of your own home needlessly endangers no one.
Quote
If you used it as a supporting evidence to your argument, surely you have a reference.  Don't you? 
That might be bad.  Pricing wars between various drug cartels and street pushers could result in the cost of harder drugs dropping below the theoretical legal price of MJ.  The point here is that they illegal operations wouldn't become legal or disappear with MJ legalization.  They would just move to the harder stuff and risk exposure of more harmful and dangerous narcotics to everyone.
Pure speculation and nothing else. I know that in my case, if pot were legalized, I would not choose to do heroin or meth or other hard drugs if they were giving it away for free on the street. You are making the assumption that all pot traffickers could immediately convert to another drug and the market for said drug would support that. I disagree. Perhaps a small portion of pot traffickers could fit in, I don't really know. However, the argument that we shouldn't consider legalizing a drug because those who distribute it would find something else illegal to do is just silly, imo. I don't know or care what they would do, like I said, maybe they would war it out with the other existing cartels and there would be mass casualties on both sides.   
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And, I agree with you on that, but building on my argument above, if you legalize MJ, wouldn't you also be forcing those who already participate in the trafficking and distribution of MJ to move to the harder stuff?  Wouldn’t this increased flow of harder drugs be even a greater danger to society?
Once again, specualtion, I don't think there would be a radical increase in the use and demand for hard drugs.
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A claim of some FBI stat doesn't make it fact.  Post it.  Prove it.  Show me.  I need evidence.  I also wonder how many of these MJ users actually only use MJ, and how many of those innocent MJ pushers just push MJ, and how many of those innocent MJ traffickers just push MJ...  Just some things to consider... 

I have posted the fbi stats with a link labeling it.
Quote
Now look, you've made claims, and all I've asked is for proof.  You've pulled sugar into the discussion.  Again, all I've asked is for proof.  If I told you that dog shit was safer than baby food, would you honestly start feeding your baby dog shit?  I mean seriously...  You're going to want a little more proof than just my claims before you even touch dog shit.  At least, I would hope so. 
Why should I bother? I posted a really good article from a good source full of info verifying my claims on sugar and you come back with some crap about you can find anything on the web to support anything. The facts on sugar are out there everywhere, not just on the site I linked. Like I said, it's not my job to educate you where you are lacking. 
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Have fun with it!  Don't get your panties in a wad like that hit-and-run guy who slings shit and cries foul at every turn.  Enjoy the board for what it is.  If you're not having fun teasing and poking one another :poke:, you're on the wrong board.
I could say the exact same thing to your response to my post.  
Quote
You obviously don't understand.  Did I say, "pot is already illegal so it should stay that way"?  And once again, I never said "if it should be legal it already would be".  That's just your weak understanding of my position, and I'm not going to explain it again.  I'm waiting for another bible thumper accusation... 

Your basic position is that if it were legal you'd be okay with it, but its not so your okay with that. You are really just playing around with semantics afa what your position is. Your position I just stated would indicate that you believe there are good reasons it is illegal and if there were reasons to support it's legalization it would already be legal, and you would be okay with that too. Afa the bible thumpers crap I wasn't saying you are one as much as that is who's side you are standing on.
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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #132 on: April 06, 2009, 02:43:13 PM »
You can find anything on the Internet these days, but what about saturated fats?  Wrestling with bears?  And, biting the heads off Cobras? 

Do you honestly believe that sugar consumption versus cannabis consumption are even comparable arguments? 

Yes, you can find anything on the internet. There is such a thing as relaible sources though. Do you really want to find even better sources to rub your fac in with the facts on sugar?

Do we have a problem with bear wrestling or biting the heads off of cobra's?

They are comparable, but not compatible. The effects of sugar consumption on society are greater.
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GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #133 on: April 06, 2009, 02:44:40 PM »
Here is an article that shows we are currently locking up between 12 and 14 % of state and federal inmates for mj related offenses. This adds up to over one billion / yr for that alone. Throw in the obscene amount of arrests for possession and the costs nears 10 billion /yr. Thios article also hits on the fact that casual smokers are the biggest target of the war on drugs as 42% of all drug arrests are for mj possession.

The absurdity continues

Still cant find the exact stats on %'s by crime. I am done looking for now. There is no doubt in my mind that when you throw in local and county jails, that one in four prisoners in jail for mj are there for possession. The one in six (prisoners in jail for mj) I provided earlier from an article may be a little off but not much at all.

One interesting theme I found several times while googling is that while violent crime %'s have been decreasing for years, incareration rates have been skyrocketing. Hmmm.

Still didn't find exact % by crime?

Try this one for some general points... 
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/whos_in_prison_for_marij/beyond_the_claims.pdf
I know...  It's the mean old gubm'et doctoring the facts to keep MJ illegal.

Here's a good one for some facts...  (Oh, by the way, these stats INCLUDE state and local numbers.)
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/dcf/enforce.htm
Let's see, in 2007...
- Drug abuse offenses account for almost 13% of all arrests.
- MJ possession account for 42% of all drug related arrests. 
- Less than 5.5% of all arrests are for MJ possession. 

Arrests for MJ skyrocketing?  Let's see...
In 1982...
 - MJ: 455,600
 - Heroin/Cocaine: 112,900
 - Synthetics: 24,800
 - Other: 82,900

In 2007...
 - MJ: 829,600 (82% increase)
 - Heroin/Cocaine: 582,100 (416% increase)
 - Synthetics: 92,600 (273% increase)
 - Other: 385,500 (365% increase)

I don't think the facts paint the picture the exact same way that you guys have been claiming. 

Didn't you say that 1 in 6 are in jail for MJ possession?  Or, was it for MJ related offenses? 
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/whos_in_prison_for_marij/untangling_the_stats.pdf
What's that?
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Drug advocates often select only those portions of the available data that support their position, ignoring facts and context that would point to a very different conclusion.
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Using data from 1997 (the most recent survey results available), the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) divided drug offenders in the state prison system into two general categories: trafficking offenses, which accounted for 70 percent of drug law violators, and possession offenses, accounting for about 27 percent.
Quote
Looking at it from the broader perspective of the entire prison population, BJS noted that in 1997 marijuana was involved in the conviction of only 2.7 percent of all state inmates. About 1.6 percent of the state prison population were held for offenses involving just marijuana, while just 0.7 percent were incarcerated with marijuana possession as the only charge.
Quote
BJS found that only 0.3 percent of all state inmates were firsttime marijuana possession offenders.  And this statistic, it’s worth noting, refers to possession of any amount—even as much as a hundred pounds or more—not just “personal use” quantities.
Quote
Recent BJS estimates based on prisoner surveys show that at midyear 2002, approximately 8,400 state prison inmates were serving time for marijuana possession (any amount), and fewer than half of them were firsttime offenders. The point here is inescapable: Of the more than 1.2 million people serving time in state prisons across America, only 3,600 individuals were sentenced on a first offense for possession of marijuana. Again, this figure includes possession of any amount.
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #134 on: April 06, 2009, 03:52:30 PM »
Wrong. Endangerment is a crime. When you drive drunk you are needlessly and recklessly endangering those around you regardless of whether they end up affected or not. Reckless driving is a crime because you know that if you let enough yahoos drive recklessly people are going to get needlessly hurt. Same with dui. Smoking pot in the privacy of your own home needlessly endangers no one.
Your argument was that MJ use was a "victimless crime", and my response was, you could argue the same thing about DUI.  In MOST cases, nobody gets hurt, and nobody is victimized.  That's it.  Do I believe it?  No...  Both are equally crimes.  Both are equally stupid. 

Pure speculation and nothing else. I know that in my case, if pot were legalized, I would not choose to do heroin or meth or other hard drugs if they were giving it away for free on the street. You are making the assumption that all pot traffickers could immediately convert to another drug and the market for said drug would support that. I disagree. Perhaps a small portion of pot traffickers could fit in, I don't really know. However, the argument that we shouldn't consider legalizing a drug because those who distribute it would find something else illegal to do is just silly, imo. I don't know or care what they would do, like I said, maybe they would war it out with the other existing cartels and there would be mass casualties on both sides. 

I agree that it's speculation, but do you really think that these criminals wouldn't continue to be criminals?  You act like the majority of drug related crime would disappear overnight with the legalization of cannibas, but that's just speculation on your side.  Is it not? 

Once again, specualtion, I don't think there would be a radical increase in the use and demand for hard drugs.
  I've posted the radical increases in arrests for these harder drugs in another post.  That's with keeping MJ illegal.  Do you really think that trafficking, distribution and consumption of these harder drugs would stay consistent?  Speculation on both sides... 
  
I have posted the fbi stats with a link labeling it.
  I must have missed it.  I'll go back and look for it.  My bad...   :thumbsup:

Why should I bother? I posted a really good article from a good source full of info verifying my claims on sugar and you come back with some crap about you can find anything on the web to support anything. The facts on sugar are out there everywhere, not just on the site I linked. Like I said, it's not my job to educate you where you are lacking.   

Again, I don't think the affects, impacts or whatever related to sugar are anything reasonable for this discussion.  Just my opinion there... 

I could say the exact same thing to your response to my post.  

I'm good.  I'm not whining, crying, bitching, taking offense or running away every time somebody challenges me.  It's all in good fun for the grown-ups.   :poke:

Your basic position is that if it were legal you'd be okay with it, but its not so your okay with that. You are really just playing around with semantics afa what your position is. Your position I just stated would indicate that you believe there are good reasons it is illegal and if there were reasons to support it's legalization it would already be legal, and you would be okay with that too.
Personally, I don't believe that there are good reasons to legalize the drug.  At least, nothing has convinced me in this thread, and the vitriol demonstrated by some to my position has incited unreasonable debates and comparisons to a swimmer, an actor, alcohol, sugar, Bible thumping and other silliness.  When I ask for facts, I'm attacked as if I've criticized somebody's mother.  This is exactly why it will likely never be legalized.  Those on the pro-legalization side have to paint me as a religious zealot throwing words like "ignorance" around.  I've never argued gateway drug in here, but some are quick to lump me into that argument as well.  I can see it being legal one day, but I have serious concerns about the impact to society.  We already have a serious down-breeding trend in our society with shitty public schools, but there's no benefit to society by legalizing MJ.  And, the money argument is an incredibly weak argument.  We've been dumping more and more money into our schools and legal system every year, and things just get worse.  Now, don't get me wrong.  I'm not whining about the poking and prodding that we do; I'm just pointing out the silliness that accompanies this discussion.

Afa the bible thumpers crap I wasn't saying you are one as much as that is who's side you are standing on.
Don't hate on the hippies!  I mean, you're standing on their side, but every time I posted something like that, it seems that sphincters tightened and feelings were hurt. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AUChizad

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #135 on: April 06, 2009, 04:17:47 PM »
Your argument was that MJ use was a "victimless crime", and my response was, you could argue the same thing about DUI.  In MOST cases, nobody gets hurt, and nobody is victimized.  That's it.  Do I believe it?  No...  Both are equally crimes.  Both are equally stupid.
Amazing...
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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #136 on: April 06, 2009, 04:34:18 PM »
Your argument was that MJ use was a "victimless crime", and my response was, you could argue the same thing about DUI.  In MOST cases, nobody gets hurt, and nobody is victimized.  That's it.  Do I believe it?  No...  Both are equally crimes.  Both are equally stupid. 
I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. Reckless endangerment of others is a crime. DUI recklessly endangers others. Driving recklessly is simlar to dui and is also a crime. Someone smoking pot at home recklessly endangers no one other than very arguably the smoker. If you can't step far away enough from the trees to see that then you are just being pig headed and irrational. Someone drives drunk x amount of times and an accident will happen. Joe the stoner lights up at hoime x amount of times and the result to him is he gets high x amount of times and no one is victimized.
 
Quote
I agree that it's speculation, but do you really think that these criminals wouldn't continue to be criminals?  You act like the majority of drug related crime would disappear overnight with the legalization of cannibas, but that's just speculation on your side.  Is it not? 
Your argument here is laughable. What is your point? Keep pot illegal to give illegal pot traffickers something to do? lol.
 
Quote
I've posted the radical increases in arrests for these harder drugs in another post.  That's with keeping MJ illegal.  Do you really think that trafficking, distribution and consumption of these harder drugs would stay consistent?  Speculation on both sides...

No, I think they would either fall or rise a small amount. Speculation on both sides? Yes. Your specualtion is radical with no proof whatsoever though.  
   
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GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2009, 05:44:10 PM »
Amazing...
I know...  And, that's without a moderator-sized e-penis.
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AUChizad

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #138 on: April 06, 2009, 05:57:07 PM »
I know...  And, that's without a moderator-sized e-penis.
Keep bangin' that drum...
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GarMan

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Re: This Ought to Make the Libertarians Happy
« Reply #139 on: April 06, 2009, 06:19:50 PM »
I don't know how to make it any simpler for you. Reckless endangerment of others is a crime. DUI recklessly endangers others. Driving recklessly is simlar to dui and is also a crime. Someone smoking pot at home recklessly endangers no one other than very arguably the smoker. If you can't step far away enough from the trees to see that then you are just being pig headed and irrational.  Someone drives drunk x amount of times and an accident will happen. Joe the stoner lights up at hoime x amount of times and the result to him is he gets high x amount of times and no one is victimized.
So focused on the short-sided near-term position...  I'm only being as irrational as the "victimless crime" argument.  Below is one of the issues I have for why I don't see legalizing the substance as a "victimless" issue.  Kids are going to get their hands on it.  BTW, I'm still waiting for AUChizzad's reference to support his claim that pot is more attainable to kids than alcohol, but kids will get their hands on anything.  They're just able to get their hands on things that are legal or regulated to some degree.  You guys claim "victimless"...  Call it a doomsday scenario or whatever to float your boat, but I've seen it and lived through it.  AND, I don't want to pay for it. 

Quote
Today’s teens are smoking a more potent form of marijuana and starting use at increasingly younger ages during crucial brain development years.1 There is plenty of evidence indicating the ways pot impedes, even changes, the mental health of adolescents. In fact, those changes in the brain are similar to those caused by cocaine, heroin and alcohol.2 The overall impact that pot has on the brain can have long term consequences, and it’s up to you to influence your teen’s life when it comes to drugs.

Depression
Weekly or more frequent use of marijuana can double a teen’s risk of depression and anxiety.3 Teens who smoke marijuana when feeling depressed are also more likely to become addicted to marijuana or other illicit drugs. Eight percent of depressed teens abused or became dependent on marijuana during the year they experienced depression compared with only three percent of non-depressed teens.4

Teen girls are especially at risk. More girls than boys felt depressed in the course of a year and substance abuse can compound the problem. Daily use of marijuana among girls is associated with a fivefold increase in the odds of developing depression and anxiety.5

Suicidal Thoughts
Marijuana can also be linked to suicidal thoughts. A study based on data from the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse found that teenagers 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely to have thoughts of committing suicide.6 The same study linked increased anxiety and panic attacks to past year marijuana use.7

Schizophrenia
Several studies have documented marijuana’s link with symptoms of schizophrenia and report that cannabis is an independent risk factor for schizophrenia. Heavy users of marijuana at age 18 increased their risk of schizophrenia later in life by six times.8 Further reports have found marijuana use increased the risk of developing schizophrenia among people with no prior history of a disorder, and that early use of marijuana (age 15 vs. age 18) increased the risk even more.9 In addition, youth with a personal or family history of schizophrenia are at an even greater risk of marijuana-induced psychosis.10

Let your teens know you don’t want them using marijuana. Their mental health may depend on it.

1. El Sohly, M.A. University of Mississippi Potency Monitoring Project, 2004
2. Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know, Revised, NIDA, November 1998
3. Patton, GC et al. Cannabis use and mental health in young people: cohort study. British Medical Journal, 325:1195-1198, 2002.
4. 2006 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, SAMHSA, 2007. Table 6.36B. http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k6nsduh/tabs/Sect6peTabs36to37.pdf
5. Patton, G.Cet al. Cannabis use and mental health in young people: cohort study. BMJ 325, 1195-1198, 2002.
6. Greenblatt, J. (1998), Adolescent self-reported behaviors and their association with marijuana use. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, 1994-1996 SAMHSA
7. Ibid.
8. Andreasson, S. et al. Cannabis and schizophrenia: A longitudinal study of Swedish conscripts. Lancet, 26: 1483-1486, 1987
9. Arseneault L., et al. Causal association between cannabis and psychosis: examination of the evidence. British Journal of Psychiatry, 184: 110-117, 2004
10. van Os et al. (Dec. 2004) Prospective cohort study of cannabis use, predisposition for psychosis, and psychotic symptoms in young people, British Medical Journal, 330 
 

And, another...
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
And another...
http://behavioural-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/marijuana_triggers_mental_illness

Your argument here is laughable. What is your point? Keep pot illegal to give illegal pot traffickers something to do? lol.
I'm just saying, let's think about this from a rational perspective without buying into any party lines.  There are larger impacts here, and I don't think that anyone is being fair to the discussion. 
 
No, I think they would either fall or rise a small amount. Speculation on both sides? Yes. Your specualtion is radical with no proof whatsoever though.   
I would argue the exact opposite suggesting that it's your speculation that is radical (the legalization of a harmful narcotic) with absolutely no proof whatsoever. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand