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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Townhallsavoy on November 09, 2011, 10:03:50 PM
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@Jim_Gardner
Jim Gardner
#Paterno is out. #PSUcharges
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I know everyone's asleep or off the internet, but what do you do if you're Penn State?
I think you have to cut ties from everything and everyone involved with Paterno and Sandusky. Wipe out everyone in the athletic department and start new.
Preferably someone with a proven track record for rebuilding programs and preferably someone who talks with his hands.
And definitely someone who can kick the media's ass if they start to ask questions about issues not pertaining to the task at hand.
/Dreaming.
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People started shouting when the BOT officially announced that Paterno was no longer the head coach effective immediately.
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I don't think they had a choice, honestly. They will need to remove everyone associated with Paterno. From Paterno himself (which they've done) all the way down to the janitor who empties the trash in his office. I can't see how they can keep one member of that staff around.
Now, who to bring in? Do you go safe hire, and I'll use the Mike Shula example, someone who can keep the program afloat for a few years, won't get you in trouble with the NCAA, but will keep you around .500, or do you go hire an Urban Meyer? Throw 5 million at someone, like Bama did Saban.
Would someone worth 5M a year take the job? Those are some awfully big shoes.
I hope they hire Terry Bowden.
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I think as long as the trial is going on, Penn State football is put on hiatus.
No way anyone outside of the state of Pennsylvania is excited about Penn State football when the news is talking about 10 year old boys being raped.
Not sure who they could hire though. Who would want to take that job?
It's good they cut off Paterno now. They need to accept that Paterno won't be a Bear Bryant. He's finished. A forgotten nightmare that spent a long time being a satisfying dream.
Unfortunately, the students are going to ruin it. Rioting on campus as we speak. Pissed that Paterno's fired. The media was a joke too with a lot of those questions.
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I know everyone's asleep or off the internet, but what do you do if you're Penn State?
I think you have to cut ties from everything and everyone involved with Paterno and Sandusky. Wipe out everyone in the athletic department and start new.
Yep. All of them. Starting with that sorry ass assistant that used to be the GA.
Sandusky would be better off in jail, in AdSeg Isolation. Too many Italians think too much of Paterno. Sandusky will get vanished like that District Attorney.
What an absolutely horrible way for JoePa to go out. Horrible. But it goes to show that you never get in trouble doing the right thing.
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Fired.
I'm sorry, but that really sucks.
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Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think we would see a headline that reads "JOE PATERNO FIRED". That is just crazy.
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Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think we would see a headline that reads "JOE PATERNO FIRED". That is just crazy.
Only because his ego was too big to do the right thing and resign yesterday when he had the chance
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The Penn State media was completely asinine last night.
If you missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6d-WqIFvM
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Like Michael Jordan with the Wizards and Brett Favre with the
2006 Packers Jets Vikings, another legacy is ruined by retiring late. If he had retired last year, he could have ended it with dignity, ESPN, etc. would be celebrating an end of an era, etc., and then if/when this hit, the blow would have been much much softened.
So often Sports Legends know when to hold em and when to fold em, it's just that damn walking away they have a problem with.
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He needed to go. Greatest football coach or not, institution or not. In my mind he allowed this to happen, he knew about it and did nothing, they all did. Those that were involved need to go. The man is a football legend and icon, but this isn't about football. This is about innocent children who were victims of a fucked up individual and people knew about and did nothing.
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Like Michael Jordan with the Wizards and Brett Favre with the 2006 Packers Jets Vikings, another legacy is ruined by retiring late. If he had retired last year, he could have ended it with dignity, ESPN, etc. would be celebrating an end of an era, etc., and then if/when this hit, the blow would have been much much softened.
So often Sports Legends know when to hold em and when to fold em, it's just that damn walking away they have a problem with.
That isn't even an accurate comparison though. Those situations are so far removed from this one.
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All these people, Joe Paterno included, knew about Sandusky's problem back to 1998 when he was investigated the first time. I can understand them letting things ride at that point because they never actually pressed charges. Apparently they took a little action because my understanding is Sandusky resigned in 99' to the surprise of a lot of people. Haven't read that, just heard it stated on a sports show this morning. Anyway, having that knowledge and doing nothing in 2002 when an eye witness has him raping a child in the shower...nope, no justification whatsoever for Paterno or anyone in that administration who knew.
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He needed to go. Greatest football coach or not, institution or not. In my mind he allowed this to happen, he knew about it and did nothing, they all did. Those that were involved need to go. The man is a football legend and icon, but this isn't about football. This is about innocent children who were victims of a fucked up individual and people knew about and did nothing.
:kimclap:
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That isn't even an accurate comparison though. Those situations are so far removed from this one.
Agreed.
The closest is Favre sending dick pics to some skanky internet reporter, but even that pales in comparison to the mental, emotional, and physical distress inflicted upon so many children.
It's obvious that Paterno thought the prestige of Penn State and the important of his own legacy was more important than making sure those kids were protected.
If you ask me my opinion, I'll tell you that Paterno went to the administration honestly wanting them to take care of the situation and bring charges against Sandusky in a quiet way that protected the football program. He trusted that whatever they did was enough.
Unfortunately for so many, that wasn't enough. Paterno is THE authority of Penn State football and should have been the leading man in exposing Sandusky and bringing justice to so many kids while ensuring the protection of any other kids that would possibly encounter the sick freak.
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Agreed.
The closest is Favre sending dick pics to some skanky internet reporter, but even that pales in comparison to the mental, emotional, and physical distress inflicted upon so many children.
It's obvious that Paterno thought the prestige of Penn State and the important of his own legacy was more important than making sure those kids were protected.
If you ask me my opinion, I'll tell you that Paterno went to the administration honestly wanting them to take care of the situation and bring charges against Sandusky in a quiet way that protected the football program. He trusted that whatever they did was enough.
Unfortunately for so many, that wasn't enough. Paterno is THE authority of Penn State football and should have been the leading man in exposing Sandusky and bringing justice to so many kids while ensuring the protection of any other kids that would possibly encounter the sick freak.
I won't try too hard to defend him, but he was defending Penn State. Nobody wants this kind of thing to come out. Even if he'd run to the media and screamed "PARIAH!" at Jerry there would still be stink on him and on the program.
I'm sure Paterno was probably afraid that the stupid bastard would ruin everything he'd spent his whole life building.
I'm still not convinced Paterno knew or understood the totality or the gravity of the situation. Jerry had a problem. Jerry's punishment was that he'd never get what he wanted. Never be coach at Penn State and had to leave the program at the height of his career. Leave and shut the fuck up or he would be exposed.
I hate to tell all of you crusaders this, but the same scenario plays out at some school somewhere in the US every single day. Every day. Every single day.
Nobody wants the disgrace, nobody wants the stigma, nobody wants the attention. So the offender apologizes for the momentary lapse,expresses remorse for the accidental indiscretion, resigns or retires and it all goes away quietly.
My guess is that when it went away in 1999 for Paterno that was the end of it in his mind.
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I think as long as the trial is going on, Penn State football is put on hiatus.
No way anyone outside of the state of Pennsylvania is excited about Penn State football when the news is talking about 10 year old boys being raped.
Not sure who they could hire though. Who would want to take that job?
It's good they cut off Paterno now. They need to accept that Paterno won't be a Bear Bryant. He's finished. A forgotten nightmare that spent a long time being a satisfying dream.
Unfortunately, the students are going to ruin it. Rioting on campus as we speak. Pissed that Paterno's fired. The media was a joke too with a lot of those questions.
I think just the opposite. This is/was a nasty situation, that took down an icon to boot. I think PSU fans will look to a fresh start football program for comfort and distraction.
This stink isn't on the football program per se, it's on Sandusky, Paterno, McCurley, and others who covered up, but it has nothing to do directly with football. Clean house, get rid of all that knew and did nothing, and move on if you're PSU. Oh, and answer every law suit with a big fat check.
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I'm still not convinced Paterno knew or understood the totality or the gravity of the situation.
His own admissions contradict that.
My guess is that when it went away in 1999 for Paterno that was the end of it in his mind.
Until the GA reported to Paterno in 2002 that Sandusky was butt-raping 10 year olds in the showers.
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His own admissions contradict that.
Until the GA reported to Paterno in 2002 that Sandusky was butt-raping 10 year olds in the showers.
I read the report.
Neither of those things are completely correct.
What has he admitted other than "he wishes he'd done more..." That could mean a thousand things. Could mean he wishes he'd killed the kids and buried them in the woods. Could mean anything.
There's no proof Paterno was specifically told what Sandusky was doing. Inappropriate behavior has any number of potential meanings.
What he knew is a gray area.
And as I said, this kind of thing goes on every day. Somebody is caught in a compromising position. The school, the business, the group wants it to go away. It does quietly. People retire. People resign.
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So what you're saying is that he video taped it. Got it.
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I read the report.
Neither of those things are completely correct.
What has he admitted other than "he wishes he'd done more..." That could mean a thousand things. Could mean he wishes he'd killed the kids and buried them in the woods. Could mean anything.
There's no proof Paterno was specifically told what Sandusky was doing. Inappropriate behavior has any number of potential meanings.
What he knew is a gray area.
You're so wrong that you must be doing it to keep a debate of sorts going.
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I won't try too hard to defend him, but he was defending Penn State. Nobody wants this kind of thing to come out. Even if he'd run to the media and screamed "PARIAH!" at Jerry there would still be stink on him and on the program.
I'm sure Paterno was probably afraid that the stupid bastard would ruin everything he'd spent his whole life building.
I'm still not convinced Paterno knew or understood the totality or the gravity of the situation. Jerry had a problem. Jerry's punishment was that he'd never get what he wanted. Never be coach at Penn State and had to leave the program at the height of his career. Leave and shut the fuck up or he would be exposed.
I hate to tell all of you crusaders this, but the same scenario plays out at some school somewhere in the US every single day. Every day. Every single day.
Nobody wants the disgrace, nobody wants the stigma, nobody wants the attention. So the offender apologizes for the momentary lapse,expresses remorse for the accidental indiscretion, resigns or retires and it all goes away quietly.
My guess is that when it went away in 1999 for Paterno that was the end of it in his mind.
However, the problem is 2002. I said the same thing earlier. I can understand the whitewashing of this back in 98'-99'. No real proof. We think Jerry might have a problem so he needs to step down, keep quiet, no waves and the program moves on. But 2002 did happen, with proof, with an eye witness. That's when the real problem began. And the more that comes out every day, the more I'm convinced this was an epic cover up from top to bottom from that day forward. I truly believe they were all well aware of the fact that the knowledge of the 98' accusations was the most damning thing for them and they could either take their hits or duck down and hope it never surfaced. It eventually did and I also believe this is the tip of the iceberg.
Soemthing I'd like to know, that may or may not ever come to light, is just how much power did JoPa have? JoPa has always been the icon, the face of PSU, just as Bear Bryant was for so many years for Alabama. I have no doubt that Bryant was the most influential and powerful man in this State during his heyday. Was Paterno the same way. At 84, certainly not..but 9-10 years ago and throughout his career before that?
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I heard today that at one time they had told Sandusky to not be bringing boys around campus anymore. So, basically they might as well have told him they will look the other way as long as he did what he was doing elsewhere. We also now know why in 1999 they guy chose his "foundation" over coaching when given that ultimatum. You also have to wonder why he never coached anywhere else? Did the 1998 incident become enough of an issue for other colleges and they would not dare touch him? Yet Penn State officials did not think much of it to let the guy hang around the program? I guess since the 2002 incident still was not enough to get the guy banned from the program, we see the type of mentality Penn State officials had.
I am still trying to rap my head around the GA, a grown man, running off and calling his father and then leaving the facility, abandoning that kid instead of helping him. Then apparently he kept quiet all these years until the grand jury investigation. How in the world is that guy still on the staff?
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However, the problem is 2002. I said the same thing earlier. I can understand the whitewashing of this back in 98'-99'. No real proof. We think Jerry might have a problem so he needs to step down, keep quiet, no waves and the program moves on. But 2002 did happen, with proof, with an eye witness. That's when the real problem began. And the more that comes out every day, the more I'm convinced this was an epic cover up from top to bottom from that day forward. I truly believe they were all well aware of the fact that the knowledge of the 98' accusations was the most damning thing for them and they could either take their hits or duck down and hope it never surfaced. It eventually did and I also believe this is the tip of the iceberg.
Soemthing I'd like to know, that may or may not ever come to light, is just how much power did JoPa have? JoPa has always been the icon, the face of PSU, just as Bear Bryant was for so many years for Alabama. I have no doubt that Bryant was the most influential and powerful man in this State during his heyday. Was Paterno the same way. At 84, certainly not..but 9-10 years ago and throughout his career before that?
What part did Paterno play in 2002? None.
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You're so wrong that you must be doing it to keep a debate of sorts going.
The report mocks you.
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What part did Paterno play in 2002? None.
The part where he kicked the accusation up the ladder and refused to recognize or deal with the predator in his office.
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What part did Paterno play in 2002? None.
My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions. No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it. An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower. PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down. So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing. He told his superior? Hell, they already knew. Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus. He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself. Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up.
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Okay, I probably could have condensed that into the same sentence that Wes just did. I'm just feeling mighty verbose today.
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My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions. No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it. An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower. PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down. So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing. He told his superior? Hell, they already knew. Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus. He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself. Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up.
This guy gets it.
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This guy gets it.
I don't have to believe Joe knew about Sandusky long before this to get where I am, but I do believe he did.
Let's say he didn't. GA reports to Joe, soft peddled because it's Sandusky: "Coach, I think I saw Coach Sandusky doing something of a sexual nature with a kid in the lockerroom shower." Joe didn't see it, it's a serious enough allegation even soft peddled, but he wants to handle it right. Reports up the chain. He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation. Every moment after that, he's complicit. He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that.
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I don't have to believe Joe knew about Sandusky long before this to get where I am, but I do believe he did.
Let's say he didn't. GA reports to Joe, soft peddled because it's Sandusky: "Coach, I think I saw Coach Sandusky doing something of a sexual nature with a kid in the lockerroom shower." Joe didn't see it, it's a serious enough allegation even soft peddled, but he wants to handle it right. Reports up the chain. He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation. Every moment after that, he's complicit. He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that.
Agree with this.
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My whole point to this is Paterno had prior knowledge of his actions. No way the GA telling him his former coach was doing the Great Sandusky in the shower with a kid was the first he knew of it. An investigation was run years before on Sandusky taking a kid in the shower. PSU apparently took some form of action to cover themselves in part by having the coach step down. So when Paterno was told in 2002, he basically did nothing. He told his superior? Hell, they already knew. Paterno played as much a part in the cover up as anyone on that campus. He told his superior but when he saw they did not bring the police into it, he should have acted himself. Unless he had no intention of doing anything other than covering it up.
BTW, I was wrong. No evidence Paterno knew about the 1998-99 incident. Only that he was made aware of something inappropriate in 2002. He told his bosses.
Call the media? Call the police?
That's not his place.
He told who he was supposed to tell. Followed the rules. You don't know what his contract says. He might be prohibited from talking outside of school about shit. He may have been specifically told not to.
Nobody's going to run to the media or the cops in opposition of their bosses. Not even you (collective you, not individual). Not when they don't know the entire situation and there's no indication he did.
If he'd run to the media behind his bosses back? He'd have been fired anyway.
You want to start the crucifixion train?
What about Joseph Miller? Steve Turchetta? What about the parents who knew and let it go?
Why is Mike McQueary (great name) still going to be on staff when he saw (allegedly) with his own eyes that Sandusky was piledriving kids? How is that possibly the right move?
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He's golden right up to the time he next sees Sandusky on campus or in Athletic Facilities and doesn't go back to his boss and ask what the fuck has been done about the Sandusky investigation. Every moment after that, he's complicit. He's responsible, in part, for every victim after that.
Really? That's his job? To monitor investigations?
I tell my boss something (if I had one) I assume it's handled. I don't go storming in his office demanding to know what was done.
One of my employees does that to me? Fired.
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Really? That's his job? To monitor investigations?
I tell my boss something (if I had one) I assume it's handled. I don't go storming in his office demanding to know what was done.
One of my employees does that to me? Fired.
Joe Pa wasn't some clock punching minion at PSU. He had more responsibility than that in Happy Valley.
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Kaos, you can type all of the bullshit you'd like. The state of Pennsylvania has mandatory reporter laws that were adopted in 1996. Joe Paterno, as an employee of that university, is a mandatory reporter and is required by law to report what he was told to a law enforcement agency. Fuck what his contract says.
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But isn't this more of a moral issue than a legal issue?
Who cares if Paterno met the letter of the law? He's THE authority figure at Penn State. Who was he going to go to? Who at the university has more clout that JoePa?
Considering Paterno's entire reputation is centered around his ability to cultivate leadership and integrity, it was his responsibility to ensure that Sandusky was referred to the police.
This isn't money laundering or sexual harassment of a female coworker or a recruiting scandal or dometic abuse.
This was raping children. Fondling and molesting the only innocent part of humanity we've got.
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Kaos, you can type all of the bullshit you'd like. The state of Pennsylvania has mandatory reporter laws that were adopted in 1996. Joe Paterno, as an employee of that university, is a mandatory reporter and is required by law to report what he was told to a law enforcement agency. Fuck what his contract says.
Well. Then I guess Mike McQueary won't be coaching at Penn State this Saturday because he'll be in jail.
Ooops.
You can call out all the mandatory laws you want. You're being purposely blind if you don't think these kind of things are settled quietly and behind closed doors on a daily basis. Even in PA.
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But isn't this more of a moral issue than a legal issue?
Who cares if Paterno met the letter of the law? He's THE authority figure at Penn State. Who was he going to go to? Who at the university has more clout that JoePa?
Considering Paterno's entire reputation is centered around his ability to cultivate leadership and integrity, it was his responsibility to ensure that Sandusky was referred to the police.
This isn't money laundering or sexual harassment of a female coworker or a recruiting scandal or dometic abuse.
This was raping children. Fondling and molesting the only innocent part of humanity we've got.
I get that. And if you asked him today he would probably say he failed to do what he should because he tried to do what was best for everybody.
I also get that he did what he thought he was supposed to do. Prime directive? Protect Penn State. It meant everything to him. Still does.
Go to the police? Seriously? Last resort. It's public then and even if he is the one who physically reports it, the stain will last forever. He knows that.
Did his effort to protect what mattered to him most blow up in his ancient face? Yeah.
But crucifying him when there are DOZENS of other people who knew and did even less than Paterno?
Fuck that.
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Well. Then I guess Mike McQueary won't be coaching at Penn State this Saturday because he'll be in jail.
Ooops.
You can call out all the mandatory laws you want. You're being purposely blind if you don't think these kind of things are settled quietly and behind closed doors on a daily basis. Even in PA.
If were up to me, I'd have McQueary on the line in front of the firing squad also. And honestly, I'm not certain that you don't need to be standing next to them.
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I get that. And if you asked him today he would probably say he failed to do what he should because he tried to do what was best for everybody.
I also get that he did what he thought he was supposed to do. Prime directive? Protect Penn State. It meant everything to him. Still does.
Did his effort to protect what mattered to him most blow up in his ancient face? Yeah.
But crucifying him when there are DOZENS of other people who knew and did even less than Paterno?
Fuck that.
Whoa wait one second. Is anyone letting the "dozens" off? They're going to get what they deserve.
What people don't want to see is Paterno get away with not doing everything he could to protect children when he had a reasonable suspicion of Sandusky's behavior. People are vocal because they know how the good ole boy system works. Paterno means a lot to the reputation of Penn State, and it would be real easy to let him off the hook because of his worth to the lucrative football program.
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If were up to me, I'd have McQueary on the line in front of the firing squad also. And honestly, I'm not certain that you don't need to be standing next to them.
So you're saying that in every instance but this one, people always run straight to the police regardless of what the scandal might do to their school, their friends, their program, their organization?
Right. That's what happens every time.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm only saying it is what it is. What PSU did is what every fucking bureaucracy in the country does when confronted with potentially damning allegations. It does its best to bury it and hopes it never rears back up.
I believe you just made an online threat. This is a first reporter state. I'm obligated to tell the WWW on you. I'm calling the Internet.
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Kaos, you can type all of the bullshit you'd like. The state of Pennsylvania has mandatory reporter laws that were adopted in 1996. Joe Paterno, as an employee of that university, is a mandatory reporter and is required by law to report what he was told to a law enforcement agency. Fuck what his contract says.
A. I hear that it's going to be iffy trying to prosecute these high level college admin folks under the mandatory reporting law, as it would be Joe. It's not like they're HS classroom teachers. And, I don't know the law in PA, just saying what I've heard. That said, as I understand it, his only legal obligation, if he had one at all, was to report it to his supervisor. Moral obligation is another thing entirely, and a huge fail on his part.
B. Nobody, and I mean nobody was going to fire Paterno for contractual shit if he'd reported child molestation to the police. Can you imagine the headline: "Paterno Fired: broke his contract by reporting child sex abuse outside chain of command".
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Whoa wait one second. Is anyone letting the "dozens" off? They're going to get what they deserve.
What people don't want to see is Paterno get away with not doing everything he could to protect children when he had a reasonable suspicion of Sandusky's behavior. People are vocal because they know how the good ole boy system works. Paterno means a lot to the reputation of Penn State, and it would be real easy to let him off the hook because of his worth to the lucrative football program.
All I'm saying is Paterno and the rest handled this situation like every other executive board in the country -- from Exxon to Apple to the board of directors at (gasp!) Notre Dame -- would have.
Crucifying Joe serves no purpose.
Could he have done something different? Sure.
Should he have done something different? Given hindsight, maybe so. But we don't know what he knew. We don't know what was said behind closed doors where decisions are made.
Are the choices he made worthy of him being dragged through the streets and burned at the stake? Not to me.
I'm done with this. It's tiring. Continue with the pitchforks, torches, hysteria and hypocrisy.
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So you're saying that in every instance but this one, people always run straight to the police regardless of what the scandal might do to their school, their friends, their program, their organization?
Right. That's what happens every time.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm only saying it is what it is. What PSU did is what every fucking bureaucracy in the country does when confronted with potentially damning allegations. It does its best to bury it and hopes it never rears back up.
I believe you just made an online threat. This is a first reporter state. I'm obligated to tell the WWW on you. I'm calling the Internet.
It doesn't matter how often it actually gets reported, that isn't an argument or defense. I don't know why you're trying to take the argument there, but it's not going to work.
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All I'm saying is Paterno and the rest handled this situation like every other executive board in the country -- from Exxon to Apple to the board of directors at (gasp!) Notre Dame -- would have.
Crucifying Joe serves no purpose.
Could he have done something different? Sure.
Should he have done something different? Given hindsight, maybe so. But we don't know what he knew. We don't know what was said behind closed doors where decisions are made.
Are the choices he made worthy of him being dragged through the streets and burned at the stake? Not to me.
I'm done with this. It's tiring. Continue with the pitchforks, torches, hysteria and hypocrisy.
So you're only ok with the cover up because you believe everyone else would have covered it up also? Perfect sense, that is.
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All I'm saying is Paterno and the rest handled this situation like every other executive board in the country -- from Exxon to Apple to the board of directors at (gasp!) Notre Dame -- would have.
Crucifying Joe serves no purpose.
Could he have done something different? Sure.
Should he have done something different? Given hindsight, maybe so. But we don't know what he knew. We don't know what was said behind closed doors where decisions are made.
Are the choices he made worthy of him being dragged through the streets and burned at the stake? Not to me.
I'm done with this. It's tiring. Continue with the pitchforks, torches, hysteria and hypocrisy.
Really? Are you leaving the board again?
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I get that. And if you asked him today he would probably say he failed to do what he should because he tried to do what was best for everybody.
I also get that he did what he thought he was supposed to do. Prime directive? Protect Penn State. It meant everything to him. Still does.
Go to the police? Seriously? Last resort. It's public then and even if he is the one who physically reports it, the stain will last forever. He knows that.
Did his effort to protect what mattered to him most blow up in his ancient face? Yeah.
But crucifying him when there are DOZENS of other people who knew and did even less than Paterno?
Fuck that.
I know you'll just deflect and avoid this question saying it's moot, because that's your M.O., but,
Would you feel the same way about Paterno if it were your child that was raped?
I'll answer it for you, no. You would probably want to shoot and kill him. So stop baiting and starting arguments just to start them.
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Really? Are you leaving the board again?
No just your house.
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I know you'll just deflect and avoid this question saying it's moot, because that's your M.O., but,
Would you feel the same way about Paterno if it were your child that was raped?
I'll answer it for you, no. You would probably want to shoot and kill him. So stop baiting and starting arguments just to start them.
Paterno didn't rape my child.
I would want Sandusky's nuts in a box.
You don't know anything about my M.O.
I don't agree with the rush to crucify Joe in this case. I don't see that it was necessary to fire him. It didn't change anything.
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I would want Sandusky's nuts in a box.
Tell me what you'd do with them. Details. With or without the old man scrodal sack?
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So you're only ok with the cover up because you believe everyone else would have covered it up also? Perfect sense, that is.
You're joining the hysterical fray and making it into something it's not.
I'm not convinced there was some huge conspiriatorial coverup that went on for decades. More likely it came up once, maybe twice people hoped it would be forgotten about, assumed it would be handled by people who handle that kind of thing and then they moved on and didn't spend a lot of time dwelling on it.
Paterno did the minimum he was supposed to do. Didn't want anything else to do with it. Walked away.
Maybe he could have done more. Maybe he should have. Just saying he's not the first and won't be the last to push something unsavory and potentially explosive off his plate and leave it to others.
Dont' think I'm really even saying he shouldn't have to deal with some consequences for not doing more. Not really convinced he should, but maybe.
The hysterical lynch mob is where I draw my line. I've been in too many bureaucratic situations where rugs are made lumpy to put a stake through the guy's heart for this. He followed protocol.
Oh the morality!! Pfffttttt. We all turn a blind eye to a lot of shit.
Did JR call the DHR in Ft. Walton when he saw diaper baby with drunk mom? Did I call the DHR when I saw some blank-eyed whore carrying a nearly naked baby hanging from her open tit at the fair and it was 58 degrees? I probably should have. Did I?
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Paterno didn't rape my child.
I would want Sandusky's nuts in a box.
You don't know anything about my M.O.
I don't agree with the rush to crucify Joe in this case. I don't see that it was necessary to fire him. It didn't change anything.
Sandusky in jail won't change anything either.
This isn't about a coverup of some assistant with an alcohol/drug problem.
This isn't about some guy getting inside information that helped get a government contract.
Hell, this isn't even about an 30 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl.
This is about at 60 year old man ass raping children. Joe knew something "of a sexual nature" was happening and still let the guy in the athletic complex. It's one thing if he didn't want to go to the cops, why was he still letting the guy around? The assistant coach that witnessed what happened, why wasn't he out complaining after seeing the guy around? Because of his career? HE WAS ASS FUCKING 10 YEAR OLDS!!!!! FUCK HIS CAREER!!!!! FUCK JOE PA'S LEGACY!!!!!!
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You're joining the hysterical fray and making it into something it's not.
I'm not convinced there was some huge conspiriatorial coverup that went on for decades. More likely it came up once, maybe twice people hoped it would be forgotten about, assumed it would be handled by people who handle that kind of thing and then they moved on and didn't spend a lot of time dwelling on it. See my prior post regarding the ass raping, it's a little different than banging the secretary.
Paterno did the minimum he was supposed to do. Didn't want anything else to do with it. Walked away. If one of your employees did the minimum he was supposed to do to keep your customers happy how long would they hang around?
Maybe he could have done more. Maybe he should have. Just saying he's not the first and won't be the last to push something unsavory and potentially explosive off his plate and leave it to others.
Dont' think I'm really even saying he shouldn't have to deal with some consequences for not doing more. Not really convinced he should, but maybe.
The hysterical lynch mob is where I draw my line. I've been in too many bureaucratic situations where rugs are made lumpy to put a stake through the guy's heart for this. He followed protocol.
Oh the morality!! Pfffttttt. We all turn a blind eye to a lot of shitake.
Did JR call the DHR in Ft. Walton when he saw diaper baby with drunk mom? Did I call the DHR when I saw some blank-eyed whore carrying a nearly naked baby hanging from her open tit at the fair and it was 58 degrees? I probably should have. Did I?
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Tell me what you'd do with them. Details. With or without the old man scrodal sack?
Nothing creative.
I'd just do to them what I used to do to model cars when I was having my wind-up Evel jump rows of them.
I'd fill the cars with M80s, pour a little gas over the top and make me a gas trail about 10 yards out. I'd get on one end and rev up Evel and have my brother light the trail. If I timed it right, Evel would be sailing over the cars as they blew to bits and a fireball hit the sky. He'd come through singed with the white suit melted to his legs. Started looking pretty rough.
So with Sandusky, I'd just fill the box with m80s and run the gas. No Evel. Although it might be fun to have Evel jump him about the same time his nuts disentegrated.
Anybody know where I can find one of these?
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zYmZ4EHSDhA/SiNfVK7XXqI/AAAAAAAAAuU/Hhfp6dYixQU/s400/knievel+12.jpg)
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Did JR call the DHR in Ft. Walton when he saw diaper baby with drunk mom? Did I call the DHR when I saw some blank-eyed whore carrying a nearly naked baby hanging from her open tit at the fair and it was 58 degrees? I probably should have. Did I?
Yes, yes I did. It was the only right thing to do, right after I got drunk and went whoring.
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Sandusky in jail won't change anything either.
This isn't about a coverup of some assistant with an alcohol/drug problem.
This isn't about some guy getting inside information that helped get a government contract.
Hell, this isn't even about an 30 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl.
This is about at 60 year old man ass raping children. Joe knew something "of a sexual nature" was happening and still let the guy in the athletic complex. It's one thing if he didn't want to go to the cops, why was he still letting the guy around? The assistant coach that witnessed what happened, why wasn't he out complaining after seeing the guy around? Because of his career? HE WAS ASS FUCKING 10 YEAR OLDS!!!!! FUCK HIS CAREER!!!!! FUCK JOE PA'S LEGACY!!!!!!
For that matter, they let him keep an office at the athletic complex, and gave him full access to the program. He retired by title only, really.
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First, we don't know if Paterno was actually aware ass raping occurred. Shenanigans is all he's said he was aware of. Could have been an accident. Really friendly guy, just horsing around, shit gets touched. Sorry! We were wrestling, I'm a coach, everybody showers naked and horses around, it's a guy thing. Damn, Joe, you really think I had my hand on his dick? You're a sick old fuck.
Second? We're not talking about performance reviews or something people do every day. I seriously doubt Joe had to deal with employees behaving in a sexually inappropriate manner on a consistent basis so there's no learning opportunities. An employee who is doing the minimum? Most days I'd take it since you spend more time dealing with the ones who can't see minumum with a telescope. Thirteen pieces of flair.
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Paterno did the minimum he was supposed to do. Didn't want anything else to do with it. Walked away.
If I'm a coach, and I have a suspicion that an assistant coach is fucking little boys in the locker room, I'm sorry, but I think I would do a little more than the "minimum" that I were supposed to do, and then walk away. Especially after somebody on my staff witnessed it. I think that's what everybody is upset about. He made a halfass attempt at reporting it, and was complacent when he saw that it wasn't going to go anywhere. He wanted to make sure his ass was covered in reporting it, and was just fine when it was swept under the rug. He sure as hell didn't want that scandal to tarnish his image, and thought it had been laid to rest.
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First, we don't know if Paterno was actually aware ass raping occurred. Shenanigans is all he's said he was aware of. Could have been an accident. Really friendly guy, just horsing around, shit gets touched. Sorry! We were wrestling, I'm a coach, everybody showers naked and horses around, it's a guy thing. Damn, Joe, you really think I had my hand on his dick? You're a sick old fuck.
Dude, the GA said that he flat out saw him having the boy up against the wall in the shower and fucking him in the ass. That's a far cry from "Yeah, well you know I didn't really see exactly what happened, they might have just been horsing around, his hand slipped". Far far cry from it.
Are you absolutely positive you read the whole thing?
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If I'm a coach, and I have a suspicion that an assistant coach is fucking little boys in the locker room, I'm sorry, but I think I would do a little more than the "minimum" that I were supposed to do, and then walk away. Especially after somebody on my staff witnessed it. I think that's what everybody is upset about. He made a halfass attempt at reporting it, and was complacent when he saw that it wasn't going to go anywhere. He wanted to make sure his ass was covered in reporting it, and was just fine when it was swept under the rug. He sure as hell didn't want that scandal to tarnish his image, and thought it had been laid to rest.
You fuck goats.
Anybody reported that yet?
(http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/feels-good-man-goat-squint-12883904505.jpg)
He reported it. His superiors did nothing. Reasonable to assume that they found nothing. Reasonable to assume they told him not to worry about it.
Whatever. Keep building the cross and putting the firewood beneath it.
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Dude, the GA said that he flat out saw him having the boy up against the wall in the shower and fucking him in the ass. That's a far cry from "Yeah, well you know I didn't really see exactly what happened, they might have just been horsing around, his hand slipped". Far far cry from it.
Are you absolutely positive you read the whole thing?
You fucking illiterate goat fucker.
What the GA says he saw and what he told Paterno he saw are two vastly different things. Nowhere does he say he told Joe that he saw somebody getting ass raped. From all indications he told him he saw something "of a sexual nature" Not the same, goat boy.
Get back to fucking Nancy. Or Nellie. Or whoever has a turn today. Here's some porn for you to get you cranked.
(http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news_images/14307goats.jpg)
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Whatever. Keep building the cross and putting the firewood beneath it.
The funny thing is, if you remove Paterno and insert Saban (or any other coach you hate) into this whole scandal, you would be chopping down any tree you could find. Doing the mere "minimum" by reporting to his superior wouldn't be enough. You would be at the front of the mob. Not sure why Paterno deserves any kind of defense. Sure, he wasn't the one doing the deed. But he knew what was going on, and was just fine when he reported it and nothing came of it. All the while this guy was still allowed to parade young boy after young boy around the program, etc.
Just from reading the stuff from the grand jury, you can tell that if Paterno didn't understand what was happening, he didn't want to know. A reasonable person can read that document and tell that there was shit covered up. Nobody wanted this to be exposed. Joe Pa certainly didn't need it to tarnish his career.
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You fuck goats.
Anybody reported that yet?
(http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/feels-good-man-goat-squint-12883904505.jpg)
He reported it. His superiors did nothing. Reasonable to assume that they found nothing. Reasonable to assume they told him not to worry about it.
Whatever. Keep building the cross and putting the firewood beneath it.
And even after all that, he STILL let the fucking pervert take up residence in the damn lockerroom on a continuing basis.
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You fucking illiterate goat fucker.
What the GA says he saw and what he told Paterno he saw are two vastly different things. Nowhere does he say he told Joe that he saw somebody getting ass raped. From all indications he told him he saw something "of a sexual nature" Not the same, goat boy.
The GA says he told Paterno he saw them having sex. It says he told him this right in the document.
The GA says he told Curley and Schultz that he saw Sandusky and the boy having sex.
Joe Pa says it as he was told that Sandusky was possibly doing something of a sexual nature with the boy.
A few weeks later, the AD reports back to the GA saying they took Sandusky's keys to the locker room away. Of course Curley and Schultz are going to deny that the GA said he specifically saw them having sex. It's their ass if they admit they knew. Joe Pa isn't going to say shit to implicate himself either. If this GA had nothing to do with it, and didn't see anything, why the hell would he speak up saying he saw it? Why would you want to throw yourself in the middle of that for no reason? Why would they take Sandusky's keys if what was reported wasn't credible? The grand jury specifically stated that they found the GA's testimony credible. Why? Because it makes sense. For that matter, the GA needs to be gone too.
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Picture any other crime.
If Sandusky was a serial killer and the GA saw him chopping up the body of a sorority girl in the showers and told Joe Pa "Holy Shit, I saw Coach in the showers chopping up a Tri Delt with a butcher knife!!", do you think JoePa would have called his boss and never said another word or would he have called the cops?
Would JoePa have mentioned it to the AD and never said another word when Sandusky kept hanging out at the AD for the next ten years even after he retired and kept bringing sorority girls on trips with the team?
Doubt it.
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Picture any other crime.
If Sandusky was a serial killer and the GA saw him chopping up the body of a sorority girl in the showers and told Joe Pa "Holy Shit, I saw Coach in the showers chopping up a Tri Delt with a butcher knife!!", do you think JoePa would have called his boss and never said another word or would he have called the cops?
Would JoePa have mentioned it to the AD and never said another word when Sandusky kept hanging out at the AD for the next ten years even after he retired and kept bringing sorority girls on trips with the team?
Doubt it.
Whether you admit it or not, it's a different situation.
You expose a murderer and you're a hero. You expose a pedophile in your organization and everybody in it gets painted with the same brush. That's just the way things are.
If they weren't you'd hear about a shitload more of this.
It's stigmatized. First response is bury and protect the institution -- whatever it is.
Oh hey, Father Mike. Come on in. Billy will be down in a minute. Say, why are you wearing that Easter Bunny suit? And is that a carrot?
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Whether you admit it or not, it's a different situation.
You expose a murderer and you're a hero. You expose a pedophile in your organization and everybody in it gets painted with the same brush. That's just the way things are.
If they weren't you'd hear about a shitload more of this.
It's stigmatized. First response is bury and protect the institution -- whatever it is.
Oh hey, Father Mike. Come on in. Billy will be down in a minute. Say, why are you wearing that Easter Bunny suit? And is that a carrot?
I've gotta disagree with you here. If they expose a pedophile they are still looked at as heros. By not exposing a pedophile they now look like they were in on it too.
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You expose a murderer and you're a hero. You expose a pedophile in your organization and everybody in it gets painted with the same brush. That's just the way things are.
Fuck. That. Noise.
It's a fucking 11 year old. I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to call me Ru Paul and ostracize me from my entire profession for all of eternity.
I am NOT going to sit on my ass when some adult has forced a child into that sick of a situation.
"But Joe Pa is hard of hearing and thinks he was only told that it was of a 'sexual nature'."
I don't give a rat's ass. If I hear "Sandusky," "11 year old," and "sexual nature" in one fucking sentence, that ass clown is going to get a first class beating before I call the police.
There is simply no excuse. I don't care how great of a coach Joe Paterno was, is, or ever will be, nor do I care how much of a hard-on anyone has for him based upon his silly ass record in a fucking college game. There was real-life shit that needed to be dealt with, and he failed. Not as a coach who was to be "painted with the same brush" and kicked out because people would assume things. He failed as a fucking human being.
Fuck him. Fuck Sandusky. And fuck anyone who thinks everything was hunky-dory in that situation.
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Fuck. That. Noise.
It's a fucking 11 year old. I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to call me Ru Paul and ostracize me from my entire profession for all of eternity.
I am NOT going to sit on my ass when some adult has forced a child into that sick of a situation.
"But Joe Pa is hard of hearing and thinks he was only told that it was of a 'sexual nature'."
I don't give a rat's ass. If I hear "Sandusky," "11 year old," and "sexual nature" in one fucking sentence, that ass clown is going to get a first class beating before I call the police.
There is simply no excuse. I don't care how great of a coach Joe Paterno was, is, or ever will be, nor do I care how much of a hard-on anyone has for him based upon his silly ass record in a fucking college game. There was real-life shit that needed to be dealt with, and he failed. Not as a coach who was to be "painted with the same brush" and kicked out because people would assume things. He failed as a fucking human being.
Fuck him. Fuck Sandusky. And fuck anyone who thinks everything was hunky-dory in that situation.
FTW!
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Fuck. That. Noise.
It's a fucking 11 year old. I don't give a flying fuck if someone wants to call me Ru Paul and ostracize me from my entire profession for all of eternity.
I am NOT going to sit on my ass when some adult has forced a child into that sick of a situation.
"But Joe Pa is hard of hearing and thinks he was only told that it was of a 'sexual nature'."
I don't give a rat's ass. If I hear "Sandusky," "11 year old," and "sexual nature" in one fucking sentence, that ass clown is going to get a first class beating before I call the police.
There is simply no excuse. I don't care how great of a coach Joe Paterno was, is, or ever will be, nor do I care how much of a hard-on anyone has for him based upon his silly ass record in a fucking college game. There was real-life shit that needed to be dealt with, and he failed. Not as a coach who was to be "painted with the same brush" and kicked out because people would assume things. He failed as a fucking human being.
Fuck him. Fuck Sandusky. And fuck anyone who thinks everything was hunky-dory in that situation.
Things are the way they are Peter Parker.
I didn't make them that way, David Bamner.
I just know what is. Doesn't make it morally right, but it is what it is.
Your law partner murders somebody and your firm can survive. Your partner buggers kids and you're done too. People will always assume you were complicit.
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BTW, I was wrong. No evidence Paterno knew about the 1998-99 incident. Only that he was made aware of something inappropriate in 2002. He told his bosses.
Call the media? Call the police?
That's not his place.
He told who he was supposed to tell. Followed the rules. You don't know what his contract says. He might be prohibited from talking outside of school about shit. He may have been specifically told not to.
Nobody's going to run to the media or the cops in opposition of their bosses. Not even you (collective you, not individual). Not when they don't know the entire situation and there's no indication he did.
If he'd run to the media behind his bosses back? He'd have been fired anyway.
You want to start the crucifixion train?
What about Joseph Miller? Steve Turchetta? What about the parents who knew and let it go?
Why is Mike McQueary (great name) still going to be on staff when he saw (allegedly) with his own eyes that Sandusky was piledriving kids? How is that possibly the right move?
Move up the chain? Sorry K you are way off on this. Did you read the 23 page report? 2002 was not the first time he was caught in the showers with a kid. The maintenance staff reported seeing Sandusky give a bj to a young boy in 2000. This was not a first time incident and I guarantee more shit will come out. IMO this was a good ole boy cover up and Paterno was involved. You mean to tell me with everyone saying that Paterno was the football program and that he still had a death grip on everything Regarding the program yet did not know about any of this shit? You can give me a shit sandwich and tell me it's roast beef , but it's still a shit sandwich and I ain't buying.
But I digress I got off point, did Paterno tell his superiors, he says he did. That's not good enough, this is not a case of racism or of him sticking an athlete in a closet. This isn't him hitting an player or throwing a chair at him. This is sexual abuts of a ten year old child. An innocent child. This is so far removed from anything even plausible. For you to defend his actions or dismiss is lack of action is beyond my grasp.
But I'll play along, so Joe Pa knows only that something bad happened in the shower (because I am so sure that McQuery didn't give him specifics) but whatever so McQuery gives him no information. Joe Pa still thought it was bad enough to take it to his superiors. Ok so then that's all he does...so explain to me....what the fuck is this guy still doing on campus as of last week with full access to the program? For that alone IMO JoePa should be fired. Even if all the other shit were true (which I don't believe BTW) there is no arguing that this guy was still allowed on campus and in the facilities.
As far as JoePa going behind his bosses back. You mean to tell me the guy that has been there for over a decade wasn't more powerful than the AD or the President for that matter? Again I call utter bullshit. He ran that program and he was that program for the las 46 some odd years.
Your argument about McQuery and any one else involved, I agree they should be fired. IMO everyone that knew about this shit and never went to the police about it are just as responsible as Sandusky. Sandusky is sick in the head and a fucked up individual. What is everyone else's excuse? /rant off
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Your law partner murders somebody and your firm can survive. Your partner buggers kids and you're done too. People will always assume you were complicit.
Do what? Everyone a pedo comes in contact with is also a pedo or enabled his pedo behavior?
Maybe in the Kaos world view. Why would a guy be treated like a pariah because his business partner was a pedo? If the guy wasn't raping kids on the couch in the lobby during business hours, then how was the partner to know? If the partner walked in on the guy AND DID NOTHING, then and only then is he complicit, when the truth finally does come out, and it always does eventually. I would not remove my business from my attorney just because his partner gets arrested for child molestation unless my attorney actually knew and did nothing.
Had JoePa or McQuerey or Spanier called the cops, PennState would have weathered the storm in strong fashion. The coverup is what cost them.
What about the assistant HS principal who IMMEDIATELY called the cops and banned Sandusky from all district facilities? He is a hero. That guy is not complicit - his school district is not a pedo ranch - the other teachers and coaches are not tarred with that brush. Why? THEY DID THE RIGHT THING.
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I get that. And if you asked him today he would probably say he failed to do what he should because he tried to do what was best for everybody.
I also get that he did what he thought he was supposed to do. Prime directive? Protect Penn State. It meant everything to him. Still does.
Go to the police? Seriously? Last resort. It's public then and even if he is the one who physically reports it, the stain will last forever. He knows that.
Did his effort to protect what mattered to him most blow up in his ancient face? Yeah.
But crucifying him when there are DOZENS of other people who knew and did even less than Paterno?
Fuck that.
He certainly wasn't protecting the boy that got ass raped or anyone after that. For you to defend him for anyone to defend him boggles my mind. Your comparisons of a boss and coworker aren't even in the same realm of what happened in this case. There is no scenario that you can paint to convince me that there is anything close to this case because there is nothing like it.
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Things are the way they are Peter Parker.
I didn't make them that way, David Bamner.
I just know what is. Doesn't make it morally right, but it is what it is.
Your law partner murders somebody and your firm can survive. Your partner buggers kids and you're done too. People will always assume you were complicit.
Your logic fails.
People will be more likely to assume you're complicit when you sit on your ass for 9 years without uttering a word to anyone else about it.
People will be less likely to assume you're complicit when you report it and speak out against it as soon as it happens.
I don't care if it's murder, child rape, or picking your nose. Anyone who has both sides of their brain intact and can function with at least 20% of the mental capacity of an average human adult will view someone who reports the act immediately more favorably than someone who sweeps it under the rug. Hiding this type of shit is more suggestive of one's involvement than immediately reporting it.
Do you really think someone is going to think Joe Pa is in on this if he reports it soon after it occurs? "Gee, Joe Pa got the police involved in a child rape investigation. Surely this means that Joe Pa's also in on it." Yeah, great assumption...he alerted the police to something with which he was involved.
I'm sure David Koresh also contacted the police regarding his pedophile cult and stockpiling of weapons, and as a result he was mistakenly tied up in the whole thing. People who are involved with illegal shit alert the police every day, so it's completely reasonable for someone to assume that reporting activity to the police implicates yourself. I'll be sure to be a giant pussy and turn my head to all criminal activity, refusing to call the police for fear that they'll implicate me. All this despite the fact that, if I'm not involved, then there's no fucking evidence to implicate me.
Kudos to you, Aristotle; your logic is impeccably flawless.
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What gets me is that the JoePa I have always watched and admired seems absolutely like the kind of guy who would do anything for a kid or to protect a kid. He seems more genuinely kind than any coach I have ever seen. SO MANY of his players talk about how much he means to them as a person and a role model. He came across as so good inside.
But he didn't do it.
He didn't protect that little boy and by extension, the ones who followed him.
And his assistant coaches, the ones who worship JoePa and say they want to emulate him - they didn't do the right thing either.
And that just blows my mind.
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Paterno did the minimum he was supposed to do. Didn't want anything else to do with it. Walked away
Sorry but there is no minimum when it comes to the anal raping of a fucking ten year old!!!!!
K, I seriously hope that you are just trying to play devils advocate and/or fuck with people (myself) included. I hope that you are just trying to fish with a long pole. Because if you arent and you believe the shit you have said in the last three pages. Then as your friend in RL you arent who i though you were and I have lost respect for you.
I do consider you a good friend, but to defend anyone involved with that program is turning a blind eye. The reason Paterno is being crucified is because he is PSU. He didn't do enough ...there is no enough when it comes to something like this. Like I said before this is bigger than football, this is bigger than wins or losses. He needed to go. He was involved and it needed to be done.
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All I'm saying is there is a lot of assuming going on.
The incident the janitor? He didn't tell ANYBODY. How can you hang that on Paterno?
No question it's wrong. I'm just jaded enough and have seen enough to know that the self-preservation response is more common than most of you appear to think. I guess what's amazing to me is that many of you seem to think this is the first time it's ever happened.
Take the emotion out of it.
The first incident happens. Whoever is in charge -- whether it's Paterno or whoever -- makes the decision to preserve the dignity of the school and bury the shit quietly.
The second time comes up. Well fuck. Can't go public with it now, you've already buried it once and how's it going to go now? It's self preservation. Yeah, it's wrong but again? Not the first time. Won't be the last.
I did read the report. I saw a bunch of incidents that were interconnected, but each was isolated in their own way. When you view it in its totality there are assumptions made that everybody involved had that same perspective, they could see all of that and did nothing.
McQueary told nobody but his dad and Paterno (and we don't know that he told Paterno "anal rape"). The janitor didn't tell anybody. The wrestling coach didn't tell anybody. Turcheletta didn't tell anybody. The president didn't. The parents of victims in 1998 didn't. Each only had a slice of the pie.
This is such a horrific thing that I think it's human nature to want to assume that what you know is an isolated incident. Sandusky was apparently pretty good at manipulation and at getting people to believe what he wanted them to believe.
We read the report and know everything he did. Looking at it impassionately, I don't think anybody else involved had that perspective. Based on the facts that are in evidence only McQueary and the silent janitors had actual knowledge of the acts. What they told and who they told it to is less clear.
It's my nature to try to see the opposite side. If this were anybody else I'd be less inclined to do so, but from everything I've ever read, seen or heard about Paterno, from what's said about him by anybody who's ever worked with him, who's ever had any interaction with him I can't reconcile that with the monster he's being portrayed as.
I'm having a hard time understanding why he's a greater villain than Sandusky himself. Or than any of the about a hundred people who knew something or had suspicions but didn't act either.
I get that kids are sacred. Mine certainly are. I get that people have a moral obligation to protect kids above all else. It's what I hope I would do in the circumstances. I also know that far too often it's NOT what happens. Doesn't make it right, just makes it what is. So I'm trying to figure out why and reconcile that with what we know about the people involved.
This is a horrible situation. Sandusky is going to roast in hell as he should. The repeated offenses are, IMO, worthy of the death penalty (and in the most heinous manner possible). Everybody else failed in some way. All failed the morality portion of the exam. Most, apparently, tried to cover the legal portion and with a few exceptions seem to have done so. Again, not right, just what is. So why? What led them to make that decision?
Maybe it's wrong on my part to be able to take the emotion out of the issue and try to figure out the mindset of those who were involved and try to determine (and explain) why they might have acted as they did. Again, doesn't make what they did (or didn't do) morally right, just trying to get some perspective on it and understand.
Nobody defends a serial child rapist. Nobody. Not even the worst criminal. So why did these dozens of (by all accounts and by every action they've ever taken prior) good, decent, upstanding men and women of high integrity end up doing just that? That's the explanation I've been trying to find. It doesn't make sense to me.
Here's the thing. If we don't understand how and why somebody like Paterno -- somebody who was until last week one of the most respected men in the history of all sports -- allows something like this to snowball, if we're unwilling to shed the emotion for a minute and figure out how we got here then we aren't going to learn anything.
If it could happen to him are you really saying it could never happen to you? I think that's a question nobody wants to even entertain.
It didn't just happen to Paterno. Dozens of people failed to act. I'm trying to understand why. What motivated them to keep what they knew or suspected to themselves. With the janitors, it was nothing but job security. Why did everybody else? Was it out of friendship/loyalty to Sandusky? Was it merely self-preservation. Was it the realization that they'd fucked up royally in 1998 and saw no way to resolve it without ruining everything and everybody? Was it that simple? Did one small decision based on limited knowledge keep impacting bigger and bigger decisions down the line?
How did we get here? Are we all 100% sure that nothing like this could ever happen to us or anyone we know? That's the question. If all we do is gather wood to burn Paterno at the stake, how do we learn enough to keep from making the same mistake?
Obviously that's something most are unprepared to contemplate or consider. I'm only turning the rock over to see the other side. I'm trying to get you to step back and look at the slippery slope, look at the choices people were presented and try to understand what drove them to make the decisions they did.
I guess, to me, a blanket crucifixion of Paterno without a thorough analysis of what his actual knowledge and motivations were does nothing but make us feel better about ourselves. We get to pound our chest and say what we unequivocally would have done. And yet time after time we see people -- otherwise good people -- fail to do what we've all said would and should be the natural reaction. Why?
Throwing stones at Paterno, as righteous as that might be, doesn't solve anything or prevent the next situation. Maybe it even drives a witness in the next situation even deeper.
Apparently a dispassionate discussion of the rationale and motivation and an attempt to understand why something happened here (and happens regularly elsewhere, but without the enormous media splash) makes me the same devil as Paterno.
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I'm somewhere in the middle.
I get what K's saying. I feel kind of the same way.
Godfather's comments about how if K believes what he says, he's no longer the friend he considered him to be, is a bit melodramatic. He's not in any way, shape, or form defending what went down. I don't think he's even saying that Paterno did the right thing, or "enough" of the right thing. Only that the hatred and vitriol is a bit misplaced when he's getting more pitchforks than Sandusky is. Or for that matter, any of the other hundred or so of other people who were complicit in the situation.
It's not right. Paterno deserves some criticism, in my opinion, no doubt. But to me, I don't get quite the degree of outrage we're seeing. I get that the crime itself is unspeakable, so the stakes are higher. I get that someone, anyone, who knew about what was going on had the moral obligation to have it stopped immediately. I also get that we hold Paterno to a higher standard because of the moral character he has been synonymous with for 60 years. But to me, that's precedent to say, "Surely this guy didn't do anything with intentional malice."
No one on Earth is defending Sandusky.
I'm not even defending Paterno. Just saying I don't get why he's public enemy #1 when to me, he's no more guilty than an untold number of people who "could have done more."
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You are trying to rationalize something that is not rational. Paterno is not the only one vilified in this endeavor and frankly I don't see where he has been vilified. Was the president of the university also not fired? Are multiple people not having issues with perjury to the grand jury? The reason you are hearing so much about Paterno is because he is the figurehead at PSU. By his own admittance he wishes he had done more, he needed to be fired K. The whole program is going to be wiped out at the end of the year.
With one breath you chastise that we don't know the man that he was this great pillar of society. I say that neither do you. While I don't doubt that he was a good man who could have had one lapse in judgement. It was a huge lapse in judgement and he needed to be fired for it.
Your argument doesn't hold up in any situation, even if Paterno had been told the bare minimum 2 WORDS child and abuse should have caused him to react outside of the normal chain of command. Since when is it up to Paterno or the University to investigate into criminal manners? Since when is it okay to take manners into your own hands? There is no way in hell that Paterno would have been labeled anything outside of hero had he gone to the police in this situation.
I still don't buy that if McQuery saw what he testified to, that he told Paterno only the bare minimum. No one talks like that but, whatever, you can believe what you want. I just have a hard time believing that anyone as skeptical as you are can't smell this shit sandwich from a mile away.
Frankly, I don't really care that anything else happens to him. I don't feel he needs to be charged with criminal wrongdoing. IMO his firing was enough.
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You are trying to rationalize something that is not rational. Paterno is not the only one vilified in this endeavor and frankly I don't see where he has been vilified. Was the president of the university also not fired? Are multiple people not having issues with perjury to the grand jury? The reason you are hearing so much about Paterno is because he is the figurehead at PSU. By his own admittance he wishes he had done more, he needed to be fired K. The whole program is going to be wiped out at the end of the year.
With one breath you chastise that we don't know the man that he was this great pillar of society. I say that neither do you. While I don't doubt that he was a good man who could have had one lapse in judgement. It was a huge lapse in judgement and he needed to be fired for it.
Your argument doesn't hold up in any situation, even if Paterno had been told the bare minimum 2 WORDS child and abuse should have caused him to react outside of the normal chain of command. Since when is it up to Paterno or the University to investigate into criminal manners? Since when is it okay to take manners into your own hands? There is no way in hell that Paterno would have been labeled anything outside of hero had he gone to the police in this situation.
I still don't buy that if McQuery saw what he testified to, that he told Paterno only the bare minimum. No one talks like that but, whatever, you can believe what you want. I just have a hard time believing that anyone as skeptical as you are can't smell this shit sandwich from a mile away.
Frankly, I don't really care that anything else happens to him. I don't feel he needs to be charged with criminal wrongdoing. IMO his firing was enough.
He's been fired.
It feels bad to me, but I think that's primarily because I view it as an effort for the school to save face and distance themselves from the situation. If there WAS a coverup (and I don't know that I know enough to say that yet) it didn't emanate just from Paterno. Presidents, Board members, everybody was involved.
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I'm somewhere in the middle.
I get what K's saying. I feel kind of the same way.
Godfather's comments about how if K believes what he says, he's no longer the friend he considered him to be, is a bit melodramatic. He's not in any way, shape, or form defending what went down. I don't think he's even saying that Paterno did the right thing, or "enough" of the right thing. Only that the hatred and vitriol is a bit misplaced when he's getting more pitchforks than Sandusky is. Or for that matter, any of the other hundred or so of other people who were complicit in the situation.
It's not right. Paterno deserves some criticism, in my opinion, no doubt. But to me, I don't get quite the degree of outrage we're seeing. I get that the crime itself is unspeakable, so the stakes are higher. I get that someone, anyone, who knew about what was going on had the moral obligation to have it stopped immediately. I also get that we hold Paterno to a higher standard because of the moral character he has been synonymous with for 60 years. But to me, that's precedent to say, "Surely this guy didn't do anything with intentional malice."
No one on Earth is defending Sandusky.
I'm not even defending Paterno. Just saying I don't get why he's public enemy #1 when to me, he's no more guilty than an untold number of people who "could have done more."
First I didn't say I would no longer be his friend, I said I would lose respect for him.
See that's where you both don't get it then, I don't see that he is public enemy number one, I think that is being melodramatic. Is he being criticized absolutely...and he should be. Whether he knew a little or a lot doing the minimum in this type of manner with the morals that Paterno claims he has IS NOT OKAY.
He has been fired, I think it was the right move, as far as I am concerned with Paterno his fate was his he made the mistake and its over. The reason you are seeing the outrage is 2 fold. One there is a large contingent that don't think he should have been fired. I don't agree with them, and no amount of rationalizing can change my perception of that. Number 2, he was and has been the man for a long time, just like he was championed for all those years for stuff he did right. You also get the blame when you make a mistake. Paterno's mistake was HUGE....HUUUUGE and it might have cost him his reputation.
Those saying well we don't know what you would do given the situation, if a friend of mine came to me and said I just saw your friend doing sexual acts with a child. My first discussion is Friend I give you one option you have 24 hours to turn yourself in or I am.
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First I didn't say I would no longer be his friend, I said I would lose respect for him.
See that's where you both don't get it then, I don't see that he is public enemy number one, I think that is being melodramatic. Is he being criticized absolutely...and he should be. Whether he knew a little or a lot doing the minimum in this type of manner with the morals that Paterno claims he has IS NOT OKAY.
He has been fired, I think it was the right move, as far as I am concerned with Paterno his fate was his he made the mistake and its over. The reason you are seeing the outrage is 2 fold. One there is a large contingent that don't think he should have been fired. I don't agree with them, and no amount of rationalizing can change my perception of that. Number 2, he was and has been the man for a long time, just like he was championed for all those years for stuff he did right. You also get the blame when you make a mistake. Paterno's mistake was HUGE....HUUUUGE and it might have cost him his reputation.
Those saying well we don't know what you would do given the situation, if a friend of mine came to me and said I just saw your friend doing sexual acts with a child. My first discussion is Friend I give you one option you have 24 hours to turn yourself in or I am.
All I'm trying to do is figure out why. That leads me where it leads me.
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He's been fired.
It feels bad to me, but I think that's primarily because I view it as an effort for the school to save face and distance themselves from the situation. If there WAS a coverup (and I don't know that I know enough to say that yet) it didn't emanate just from Paterno. Presidents, Board members, everybody was involved.
I agree with that, I never disagreed with you on that and I believe that more is going to come out and more will be fired. However, Paterno is still going to get the brunt of the coverage he is the figurehead, and he made a huge mistake.
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All I'm trying to do is figure out why. That leads me where it leads me.
The "why" doesn't fucking matter except in the most abstract and academic sense. The act, or inaction rather, resulted in the systematic enabling of a predator who victimized the most helpless members of our society.
I'm not saying that Paterno is the only culpable party, there clearly was a culture of cover up at PSU. Paterno does get the most heat however(besides the actual rapist) precisely because of the wholesome, and now apparently duplicitous, facade he projected for a dinosaur's age.
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What gets me is Paterno knew...at least something fucked up was going on...and kept Sandesky around for over 8 years. 12 years since he was let go at the age of 55 for no apparent reason in 1999. Some one knew something. Period. And for him to stay around the program as long as he has is fucked up and everyone needs to go....
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The Defensive Coordinator has no business taking over as interim head coach if you ask me.
If I'm going to assume Paterno knew what he "must have known", the guy second in line, but without age inflicted dementia, probably knew more.
I guess that ONLY Paterno was made the focus of so many people's rage, and people ONLY demanded Paterno step down, and then ONLY a handful of officials, including Paterno did.
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The Defensive Coordinator has no business taking over as interim head coach if you ask me.
If I'm going to assume Paterno knew what he "must have known", the guy second in line, but without age inflicted dementia, probably knew more.
Agree with this.
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The "why" doesn't fucking matter except in the most abstract and academic sense. The act, or inaction rather, resulted in the systematic enabling of a predator who victimized the most helpless members of our society.
I'm not saying that Paterno is the only culpable party, there clearly was a culture of cover up at PSU. Paterno does get the most heat however(besides the actual rapist) precisely because of the wholesome, and now apparently duplicitous, facade he projected for a dinosaur's age.
Sure it matters.
It matters because we don't know the true level of culpability.
Systematic enabling, if and only if, all the dots we can now connect in retrospect were easily connectable at the time. They weren't.
Duplicitous facade? Again only if one knows with certainty what he was told, what he knew and what he believed.
Hyperbole aside. If somebody told you that they saw your best friend of 30 years, a guy you thought you knew everything about, somebody you worked with every day of your life, somebody you trusted, trusted with your kids, considered a brother -- somebody comes to you and says "Wes, I, uh, think I might have seen Buddy maybe with a kid in the shower. And maybe it was sexual?"
You're going to confront the guy probably. And if this guy, the guy who's your close, close friend tells you "No way, dude. It was an innocent thing. The kid had soap in his eyes, I was trying to get it out. Shower? What the fuck? Guys shower together all the time. Damn, Joe, you've been in those showers with me. You trying to fuck me? You think anything of it? It didn't happen, Joe. I don't know what he thought he saw, but fuck man. You know me. You KNOW me. Think about it."
Joe says he still has to report it. He does.
I don't know, Wes, I wasn't there. But based on everything I've ever seen and heard about the guy I can't reconcile that with the dirty bastard portrayal.
Has to be more to it than that.
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(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2011/11/9/15/meet-penn-states-new-mascot-the-nittany-pedo-bear-29685-1320869086-55.jpg)
(http://www.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uploads/2000/08/pedobear_and_paterno.jpg)
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So this is what happens when you put a statue of a guy outside the stadium while he's still working there?
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Hyperbole aside. If somebody told you that they saw your best friend of 30 years, a guy you thought you knew everything about, somebody you worked with every day of your life, somebody you trusted, trusted with your kids, considered a brother -- somebody comes to you and says "Wes, I, uh, think I might have seen Buddy maybe with a kid in the shower. And maybe it was sexual?"
You're going to confront the guy probably. And if this guy, the guy who's your close, close friend tells you "No way, dude. It was an innocent thing. The kid had soap in his eyes, I was trying to get it out. Shower? What the fuck? Guys shower together all the time. Damn, Joe, you've been in those showers with me. You trying to fuck me? You think anything of it? It didn't happen, Joe. I don't know what he thought he saw, but fuck man. You know me. You KNOW me. Think about it."
You still don't get it chopper. You say you do, but you don't.
That response would have been understandable in 1998, when Joe Pa fired his good friend for the shower incident. But the same allegation is made again? With the same circumstances as 1998? At what point do you stop brushing it off? How many times can your friend be accused of raping children in the bathroom before "come on man, you KNOW me" is no longer a free pass?
In my opinion, only once. You get accused of raping kids once, I'll take your word and I'm going to need to see some evidence. You get accused of the same fucking crime twice? There's an issue and we're not stopping at "bare minimum".
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You still don't get it chopper. You say you do, but you don't.
That response would have been understandable in 1998, when Joe Pa fired his good friend for the shower incident. But the same allegation is made again? With the same circumstances as 1998? At what point do you stop brushing it off? How many times can your friend be accused of raping children in the bathroom before "come on man, you KNOW me" is no longer a free pass?
In my opinion, only once. You get accused of raping kids once, I'll take your word and I'm going to need to see some evidence. You get accused of the same fucking crime twice? There's an issue and we're not stopping at "bare minimum".
Yes.
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You still don't get it chopper. You say you do, but you don't.
That response would have been understandable in 1998, when Joe Pa fired his good friend for the shower incident. But the same allegation is made again? With the same circumstances as 1998? At what point do you stop brushing it off? How many times can your friend be accused of raping children in the bathroom before "come on man, you KNOW me" is no longer a free pass?
In my opinion, only once. You get accused of raping kids once, I'll take your word and I'm going to need to see some evidence. You get accused of the same fucking crime twice? There's an issue and we're not stopping at "bare minimum".
Not only that but I could understand if the kid was say 16 or perhaps related, but no way in hell does a 55+ year old man belong in a shower with a boy that age. There is no reason you could give me as a parent where I would be ok with that.
Oh and the mother who didn't report the other incident further....she needs to be pistol whipped as well.
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Wow... Still going... Pedifile State needs to be crucified over this. NCAA should ban them from all sports until further notice. People need to go to jail over this including JoPa and others. This is not a single isolated event. It's been going on for years, and they have known about it.
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I guess what's amazing to me is that many of you seem to think this is the first time it's ever happened.
I think you're missing our (or at least my) point.
No one is prancing around pretending the world is full of magical lollipops and unicorn queefs, and that no one tries to sweep anything under the rug or ignore something in order to preserve themselves.
Rather, what we're saying is that it's despicable to do so, regardless of how often it happens or why it happens.
The first incident happens. Whoever is in charge -- whether it's Paterno or whoever -- makes the decision to preserve the dignity of the school and bury the shit quietly.
And this is why it's despicable: Anyone who values the integrity of a team that plays a fucking game over the innocence of children is fucked up in the head.
Additionally, the logic here is retardedly stupid. "We want to save the integrity of our school, so instead of pointing out the one guy who did this and showing that, as a school, we stand against these actions, we're going to sweep it under the rug and turn our heads."
That type of logic doesn't make sense. At all. Even if that is what these dumb fucks believed, I don't give a flying monkey shit. It's stupid. It's superficial. It's wrong.
I'm not going to sit back and accept the excuse that they valued the school's reputation over children. I'm not going to try to defend them by saying that they were worried about their jobs. If they didn't do anything wrong, then they shouldn't have had anything to worry about. And if they're stupid enough not to think that, then fuck them in their mouths, because their idiocy and desire for "self-preservation" really fucked up some kids in the head.
I'm having a hard time understanding why he's a greater villain than Sandusky himself. Or than any of the about a hundred people who knew something or had suspicions but didn't act either.
Umm, I don't think anyone said that he was. People are just saying that he had a part in this by not reporting it to the police. He allowed the guy to keep coming back to the facilities with children despite the fact that Sandusky's had previous charges brought and someone told Joe Pa that he was seen in the shower with a young boy and that the conduct was of a "sexual nature."
Failure by Joe Pa. Utterly and horribly. No, he didn't directly rape the kid, and he may not be considered as on the same level as Sandusky, but that doesn't make him a saint either. Fuck him in his old ass. Fuck Sandusky in his ass harder. Make sense?
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Wow... Still going... Pedifile State needs to be crucified over this. NCAA should ban them from all sports until further notice. People need to go to jail over this including JoPa and others. This is not a single isolated event. It's been going on for years, and they have known about it.
Not an NCAA issue. PSU fans and alum need to speak by not going to games, and/or donating until house is completely sanitized. Folks need to go to jail. But it's NOT an NCAA issue.
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Sandusky will be handled on a different level. Whether it be behind bars of federal pound you in the ass with a broomstick prison, or he takes his own life with a Remington .12 guage to the roof of his mouf.
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Sandusky will be handled on a different level. Whether it be behind bars of federal pound you in the ass with a broomstick prison, or he takes his own life with a Remington .12 guage to the roof of his mouf.
I put my money on the latter.
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Sandusky will be handled on a different level. Whether it be behind bars of federal pound you in the ass with a broomstick prison, or he takes his own life with a Remington .12 guage to the roof of his mouf.
Unfortunately, most pedos are also cowards. Ties into the abuse of someone more helpless than they are that can't fight back. So he won't have the guts to kill himself. He goes to prison then demands special protection. All our hopes for justice lie with the lifer with three kids of his own, a shank and nothing to lose.
Which begs another question: if you are his attorney, how fast do you slap a change of venue motion on the presiding judge? Which begs ANOTHER question - where in the HELL could you find an impartial jury? Maybe in Delaware - no real football there. Even then, everybody knows who JoePa is.
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They won't need a jury because they'll be begging for a plea, which they'll get. I mean, the fuck is 66 years old. A 10 year sentence would likely be a death sentence for him.
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Not an NCAA issue. PSU fans and alum need to speak by not going to games, and/or donating until house is completely sanitized. Folks need to go to jail. But it's NOT an NCAA issue.
Why wouldn't this be an NCAA issue? A school that paricipates in the NCAA had a sports program that was involved in the coverup of a multi-year, multi-victim child molestation scandel. If this scandel wasn't associated with a sports program at Pedifile State, I would see why the NCAA should not be involved.
By the way, the NCAA has announced that they will be conducting their own investigation, but I wouldn't expect much...
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Why wouldn't this be an NCAA issue? A school that paricipates in the NCAA had a sports program that was involved in the coverup of a multi-year, multi-victim child molestation scandel. If this scandel wasn't associated with a sports program at Pedifile State, I would see why the NCAA should not be involved.
By the way, the NCAA has announced that they will be conducting their own investigation, but I wouldn't expect much...
For the same reason they don't get involved when a player is selling cocaine in the athletic facilities, or when 4 players commit an armed home invasion robbery. It has jack shit to do with the football program directly. If every time a player or coach got arrested the NCAA sanctioned the program, there'd be precious few programs NOT on probation. They don't involve themselves in non-athletics related issues. They won't here unless it surfaces that a coach raped a player or recruit, or something similar.
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For the same reason they don't get involved when a player is selling cocaine in the athletic facilities, or when 4 players commit an armed home invasion robbery. It has jack shit to do with the football program directly. If every time a player or coach got arrested the NCAA sanctioned the program, there'd be precious few programs NOT on probation. They don't involve themselves in non-athletics related issues. They won't here unless it surfaces that a coach raped a player or recruit, or something similar.
I could almost agree with that, but we're talking about the leaders of Pedifile State's football program participating in a coverup that was very much a part of their football program. If Sandusky did this at the local YMCA and only YMCA employees participated in the coverup, I could see this not being an NCAA issue.
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I could almost agree with that, but we're talking about the leaders of Pedifile State's football program participating in a coverup that was very much a part of their football program. If Sandusky did this at the local YMCA and only YMCA employees participated in the coverup, I could see this not being an NCAA issue.
Tell me why they didn't get involved with Jimmy Johns selling cocaine in/on athletic facilities? Ok, I'll tell you. It has NOTHING to do with football other than the accused happened to be a football player. The NCAA has NO HISTORY of involvement in criminal activity by coaches or players that isn't directly related to football/athletics. If you go read the NCAA manual and find the the rule that would allow it, I'll gladly entertain it. It's not there.
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Tell me why they didn't get involved with Jimmy Johns selling cocaine in/on athletic facilities? Ok, I'll tell you. It has NOTHING to do with football other than the accused happened to be a football player. The NCAA has NO HISTORY of involvement in criminal activity by coaches or players that isn't directly related to football/athletics. If you go read the NCAA manual and find the the rule that would allow it, I'll gladly entertain it. It's not there.
Fair enough, but if Jimmy Johns' coaches and administrators knew of the incidents, failed to take appropriate action and continued to effectively condone them, shouldn't the NCAA get involved? I believe that is the difference here.
Meanwhile...
NCAA may look into sanctioning Penn State
By Mike Jensen
NCAA president Mark Emmert said Thursday that the national governing body would look into whether Penn State had broken NCAA bylaws in the child sexual abuse scandal that has toppled coach Joe Paterno as well as the school's president and athletic director...
Updated: November 11, 2011, 8:29 AM ET
NCAA defers to authorities
Associated Press
INDIANAPOLIS -- The NCAA is watching developments in the Penn State case but will defer to criminal investigators for now.
"The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes," president Mark Emmert said Thursday. "As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly."
...
NCAA President Mark Emmert will launch own investigation into alleged Jerry Sandusky sex-abuse case at Penn State
Emmert says he will defer to criminal investigators
BY Kevin Armstrong
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Thursday, November 10 2011
NCAA President Mark Emmert on Thursday said that while he will defer to criminal investigators, the NCAA plans on launching its own investigation into the alleged sex abuse scandal at Penn State.
"The NCAA will defer in the immediate term to law enforcement officials since this situation involved alleged crimes," Emmert said in statement released Thursday afternoon. "As the facts are established through the justice system, we will determine whether Association bylaws have been violated and act accordingly. To be clear, civil and criminal law will always take precedence over Association rules."
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It's not as black and white as you seem to be painting this. If Pedifile State's football program leadership, athletic director and president knew of the incidents and failed to take the appropriate action, effectively condoning and permitting additional incidents, I don't see how this isn't an NCAA issue, but I agree that it really depends on the policies and bylaws of the organization.
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Fair enough, but if Jimmy Johns' coaches and administrators knew of the incidents, failed to take appropriate action and continued to effectively condone them, shouldn't the NCAA get involved? I believe that is the difference here.
Meanwhile...
It's not as black and white as you seem to be painting this. If Pedifile State's football program leadership, athletic director and president knew of the incidents and failed to take the appropriate action, effectively condoning and permitting additional incidents, I don't see how this isn't an NCAA issue, but I agree that it really depends on the policies and bylaws of the organization.
Hey IF they can find a hook to get involved, more power to them!
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Hey IF they can find a hook to get involved, more power to them!
I would think the NCAA would only get involved if a program is gaining a competitive advantage by having a pedophile on staff...
I think that is what you are saying...
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I would think the NCAA would only get involved if a program is gaining a competitive advantage by having a pedophile on staff...
I think that is what you are saying...
The NCAA's thinking is that if they'll coverup something like that...they'll coverup everything and anything else.
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The NCAA's thinking is that if they'll coverup something like that...they'll coverup everything and anything else.
Bingo
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I would think the NCAA would only get involved if a program is gaining a competitive advantage by having a pedophile on staff...
I think that is what you are saying...
Since they don't have arule against ass taping kids, yeah.
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And this is why it's despicable: Anyone who values the integrity of a team that plays a fucking game over the innocence of children is fucked up in the head.
Additionally, the logic here is retardedly stupid. "We want to save the integrity of our school, so instead of pointing out the one guy who did this and showing that, as a school, we stand against these actions, we're going to sweep it under the rug and turn our heads."
That type of logic doesn't make sense. At all. Even if that is what these dumb fucks believed, I don't give a flying monkey shit. It's stupid. It's superficial. It's wrong.
Are you really a lawyer?
You're seriously going to tell me that nobody in the history of the world has ever thought about burying something and hoping it goes away until Penn State came along? Wow.
It makes sense that you'd never have heard of the Catholic Church, I guess. What was their rationale and logic in that widespread scandal?
I never actually said I was defending him, only that I was pointing out ways it could have gone that made some modicum of sense. Because it makes none to me.
I'm still trying to figure out how a guy who sets such high standards -- and I don't think there's any argument that's been the perception regarding Paterno for longer than any of us have even been alive -- could have drifted off this badly.
All I've done is ask "Isn't it possible" questions in my twisted Matlock brain. Maybe you consider that a defense. I'm just asking for facts, not supposition and to deal in what we know as an absolute rather than what we think might have or must have been. Of all people I expected a lawyer to understand that.
The only person here who's been able to effectively (and without hysterical ranting) explain why none of the rationales I've tried to come with up hold water is Wes. I might be leaving somebody out, but he's about the only one who stuck to facts and didn't resort to "I just know" or "he must have known" arguments. He stayed away from "shoot him in the face" mob mentality.
And I think he's won.
What Wes said leaves me in a quandry. I can't find a way out of that box for Joe. I've considered it all day. There's no escape. And I really hoped there was one.
It stinks.
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Not only that but I could understand if the kid was say 16 or perhaps related, but no way in hell does a 55+ year old man belong in a shower with a boy that age. There is no reason you could give me as a parent where I would be ok with that.
This is what I'm screaming. You don't even have to go past "55+ year old in shower in locker room with 16 year old" for red flags to go up. There is no reasonable explanation for that.
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This is what I'm screaming. You don't even have to go past "55+ year old in shower in locker room with 16 year old" for red flags to go up. There is no reasonable explanation for that.
How old are your goats? I doubt they're 16.
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Are you really a lawyer?
You're seriously going to tell me that nobody in the history of the world has ever thought about burying something and hoping it goes away until Penn State came along? Wow.
Are you really illiterate?
I think you're missing our (or at least my) point.
No one is prancing around pretending the world is full of magical lollipops and unicorn queefs, and that no one tries to sweep anything under the rug or ignore something in order to preserve themselves.
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Are you really illiterate?
No, but I read that you were.
You said that about queefs and unicorns and then went on a lengthy rant about how it was stupid logic, blah, blah, blappity blah.
Your first queef comment was invalidated by the remainder of your attempt at an argument. You're a circle talker.
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How old are your goats? I doubt they're 16.
Shouldn't you be acting like a 5 year old at a McDonalds somewhere?
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Shouldn't you be acting like a 5 year old at a McDonalds somewhere?
Next time I tell you to leave off the goddam tomato and you don't I will, Ronald.
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No, but I read that you were.
You said that about queefs and unicorns and then went on a lengthy rant about how it was stupid logic, blah, blah, blappity blah.
Your first queef comment was invalidated by the remainder of your attempt at an argument. You're a circle talker.
You can sit on your philosophical throne and ponder all day about why someone would do something; I don't give two shits about why they did something. The fact of the matter is that they did it. You sound like Johnnie Cochran trying to explain that your client is a psychopathic murderer because his father diddled him when he was a child.
We've been repeating over and over that there were simply too many incidents, one of which was reported to Paterno, in addition to criminal charges that had been brought; there simply is no way that Paterno was in the dark on this. At the very least, he should have had a strong suspicion, and should not have continued to allow the creep to hang around the program with children. Paterno was in the wrong, and no number of theories about why he was in the wrong will change that.
All of these incidents and the time line for them were in the indictment. If you've read it, then I don't know why it took Wes laying everything out in elementary terms for you to finally see what it is that we've been trying to say all along.
If any of the above is too "circular" for you, then you may need an adult to assist you in day to day activities.
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You can sit on your philosophical throne and ponder all day about why someone would do something; I don't give two shits about why they did something. The fact of the matter is that they did it. You sound like Johnnie Cochran trying to explain that your client is a psychopathic murderer because his father diddled him when he was a child.
We've been repeating over and over that there were simply too many incidents, one of which was reported to Paterno, in addition to criminal charges that had been brought; there simply is no way that Paterno was in the dark on this. At the very least, he should have had a strong suspicion, and should not have continued to allow the creep to hang around the program with children. Paterno was in the wrong, and no number of theories about why he was in the wrong will change that.
All of these incidents and the time line for them were in the indictment. If you've read it, then I don't know why it took Wes laying everything out in elementary terms for you to finally see what it is that we've been trying to say all along.
If any of the above is too "circular" for you, then you may need an adult to assist you in day to day activities.
^^ Hysterical rant ^^
What I didn't see in the indictment (and still don't, frankly) is the connection between 1998 and 2002 in terms of who was told, what they were told, who knew and what they knew. Based on Wes' simple, plain view, non-hysterical, pitchfork-less take on what was in the indictment, I'm willing to concede that at the very least Paterno should have known something in 1998, otherwise why would he have allowed Sandusky to step down.
You're a lawyer and you don't think the who, what, when, where and why matters?
I guess you guys are required to print this for a reason:
No representation is made that the quality of the legal services to be performed is greater than the quality of legal services performed by other lawyers.
This has been fun, but you're in on the tail end of the event and your blustering seems overwrought. It's Friday night. Go out and hit something.
Oh, BTW? Sandusky was barred from bringing kids to PSU in 2002. He wasn't there with children after that.
The board at Second Mile -- his foundation -- was also notified of the incident.
It did nothing.
Everything in the indictment is from 2002 and before I think. Nine years ago. That's a long time to pass for nothing to happen.
Not defending, just saying.
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Do you ever make substantive replies to points, or do you just make irrelevant allegations about non-existent circular statements and what people do with their lives?
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Everything in the indictment is from 2002 and before I think. Nine years ago. That's a long time to pass for nothing to happen.
The incident with the very first victim in the indictment occurred in 2007.
Again, I ask...illiteracy?
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Do you ever make substantive replies to points, or do you just make irrelevant allegations about non-existent circular statements and what people do with their lives?
I typically do both at the same time.
As for your second dealio, you're right. This was a kid in Second Mile. But it didn't blow up and wasn't public until a week or two ago. Nine years elapsed between (again what we know, not what we assume) knowledge of bad acts.
Are proposing that Penn State officials were aware of this situation in 2007? Don't think anybody was. It's definitely not specified in the indictment as to how they became aware of the situation or what they did during the years it seems it took to investigate.
I do find it somewhat odd that Second Mile events were held at PSU, but the indictment doesn't make clear what Sandusky's role in the Second Mile events at PSU was or if there even was one.
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Still too soon?
(http://i41.tinypic.com/260brqv.jpg)
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m556/jmorris703/TMConnectedtoPennStateprobablytosoon-1.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/rattlehead666/pennstatemascot_pedobear.jpg)
(http://soonerpsycho.com/spfarksandpics/paternohanson.jpg)
(http://soonerpsycho.com/spfarksandpics/noevilpennstate.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Big%20Ten/Sandusky_Surprise.gif)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/rattlehead666/sandusky_herbie_itshower.gif)
And my favorite:
(http://soonerpsycho.com/spfarksandpics/herbertsandusky.jpg)
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http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-november-10-2011/penn-state-riots?xrs=share_copy
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He stayed away from "shoot him in the face" mob mentality.
I don't think anybody here is taking that stance. I don't think anybody thinks he should even be prosecuted or anything. The only consistant points I have seen are that Joe Pa most certainly deserved to be fired over this whole thing, and the students protesting on his behalf are morons. Most of the conversation was sparked off by you attempting to justify Joe Pa having a hand in covering this whole thing up because it happens every where, everyday, and by your stance that he told his supervisor, so that's where his responsibility ended, because he did "what he was supposed to do".
Joe Pa deserved to be fired. They didn't take this guy's keys to the locker room away for nothing. They didn't tell him to stop bringing young boys to the football facilities for nothing. They didn't force him to resign for nothing. The problem with telling a lie is, you have to keep telling more lies to keep the first lie going. That is exactly what happened here. They knew something was going on, and they decided they didn't want it to tarnish the program. They had to bury it, but at the same time, make sure it didn't happen again. When it came around to kick them in the ass again, well they couldn't let that get out, because everybody would know they covered it up the first time. And so on, and so on. And now we are where we are today.
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I don't think anybody here is taking that stance.
I am. Sandusky along with anyone and everyone who knew what happened in 98 and didn't take the appropriate steps to have Sandusky criminally investigated when the same incident occurred again in 2002 should be lined up in the street and shot in the face at close range with a shotgun. Mike McPussy should have to stand and watch every horrific execution just to get an idea of what is going to happen to his face when the slug hits it.
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I am. Sandusky along with anyone and everyone who knew what happened in 98 and didn't take the appropriate steps to have Sandusky criminally investigated when the same incident occurred again in 2002 should be lined up in the street and shot in the face at close range with a shotgun. Mike McPussy should have to stand and watch every horrific execution just to get an idea of what is going to happen to his face when the slug hits it.
You never take a stand do you? Always sitting on the fence. You're a fence sitter.
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You never take a stand do you? Always sitting on the fence. You're a fence sitter.
He likes the feel of a post up his ass.
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He likes the feel of a post up his ass.
Sandusky thinks 10 year old boys do too.
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Sandusky thinks 10 year old boys do too.
But, the more important question is why did he think that?
Because if we don't know why, then I can't judge Sandusky for shoving his erection in children's anuses.
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But, the more important question is why did he think that?
Because if we don't know why, then I can't judge Sandusky for shoving his erection in children's anuses.
Hmmm.
Idiot you are.
(http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/y/yoda_of_star_wars-11321.jpg)
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Given the circumstances, I'm amazed that the Nitany Lions played as well as they did Saturday. In the end though, they came up a little behind.
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Given the circumstances, I'm amazed that the Nitany Lions played as well as they did Saturday. In the end though, they came up a little behind.
Nebraska took advantage of the fact that no one at Penn State is taught to defend the skinny post.
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Nebraska took advantage of the fact that no one at Penn State is taught to defend the skinny post.
Damn dude. That is fucking full of awesome!!
:classic:
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Given the circumstances, I'm amazed that the Nitany Lions played as well as they did Saturday. In the end though, they came up a little behind.
came up a little behind...
Perhaps the best line ever. Salute.
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Wonder if Paterno gave anythought to the fact that Sandusky's home backed up to an elementary school playground.
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I am. Sandusky along with anyone and everyone who knew what happened in 98 and didn't take the appropriate steps to have Sandusky criminally investigated when the same incident occurred again in 2002 should be lined up in the street and shot in the face at close range with a shotgun. Mike McPussy should have to stand and watch every horrific execution just to get an idea of what is going to happen to his face when the slug hits it.
Perfect... Perhaps, they can also shutdown their school or kill all of their sports programs... Pedifile State University has just earned a reputation that it will NEVER be able to shake. But, I fear this goes much further. From this weekend, we've learned that the judge who set his bail at only $100k, while the DA requested $500k, was also a volunteer at the child molester's charity. And then, we heard from Pedifile State officials who expect that there will be many more witnesses along with many more victims. Disgusting...
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Heard Heath Evans on Brando today. He said about what I said for most of this.
Paraphrased :
Everybody talks all bad ass about how they'd confront the guy or go to the authorities. Bullshit.
Statistics bear it out. 90% of the time when confronted with it in real life people do nothing. They react out of fear over how they, their organization, their company, their family, their church will be perceived. Self preservation.
Doesn' make it right, it's just what it is.
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Heard Heath Evans on Brando today. He said about what I said for most of this.
Paraphrased :
Everybody talks all bad ass about how they'd confront the guy or go to the authorities. Bullshit.
Statistics bear it out. 90% of the time when confronted with it in real life people do nothing. They react out of fear over how they, their organization, their company, their family, their church will be perceived. Self preservation.
Doesn' make it right, it's just what it is.
While I get that, and it's true from my experience, the difference here is a 6-5 28 year old man witnessed it happening live, and walked away. He could have beat the shit out of Sandusky, saved the child, and they could have still covered it all up. It's his reaction at that time that baffles me. At the very least barge in and say "Hey coach, what's up, did you mean to have your penis in that kids bung hole or did he just slip and fall on it?" and put a stop to that incident.
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Heard Heath Evans on Brando today. He said about what I said for most of this.
Paraphrased :
Everybody talks all bad ass about how they'd confront the guy or go to the authorities. Bullshit.
Statistics bear it out. 90% of the time when confronted with it in real life people do nothing. They react out of fear over how they, their organization, their company, their family, their church will be perceived. Self preservation.
Doesn' make it right, it's just what it is.
Pffffft, bullshit. Show me these statistics from a source? You're telling me that Gallop poll did a survey, "I saw child raped and did what?" Or there was an independant study at www.MJSaysletsbebuddies.com? Pffffft.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1to2ev.jpg)
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Pffffft, bullshit. Show me these statistics from a source? You're telling me that Gallop poll did a survey, "I saw child raped and did what?" Or there was an independant study at www.MJSaysletsbebuddies.com? Pffffft.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1to2ev.jpg)
He's talking about reporting child sex abuse period. Which most often DOES NOT include catching someone in the act. I don't know if 90% is accurate, but wouldn't be surprised if it's higher.
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Ask Heath. Don't ask me. He said 90%.
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After listening to Sandusky's attorney? He should be bludgeoned with a metal meat tenderizer in front of his mother for such a pathetic attempt to justify why his client was taking showers with small boys.
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He's talking about reporting child sex abuse period. Which most often DOES NOT include catching someone in the act. I don't know if 90% is accurate, but wouldn't be surprised if it's higher.
Oh, regardless, I just wanted an excuse to use the MJ picture in this thread.
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Doesn' make it right, it's just what it is.
This is the point that many of us have been trying to make that I guess you overlooked.
It doesn't matter why he turned his head. It doesn't matter if 90% of people in the same situation have done the same thing (although I seriously doubt that statistic, if accurate in the first place, is applicable to people who have seen a grown man anally raping a child in an open shower room).
The main point is that it was wrong for them to have turned their heads and ignored it. Sure, point and laugh and call us Peter Parker, Arthur Curry, Clark Kent, or whatever else makes you giggle with glee. Point to ambiguous, uncited, and probably irrelevant surveys and say that, statistically speaking, we wouldn't do anything either.
But despite what you say, despite what the surveys say, and despite what has become the "norm" amongst companies and institutions like Penn State, I wouldn't stand for it. Especially not when directly confronted with recurring charges, reports, and suspicious activities.
If you can't see yourself intervening simply because the statistics dictate that you're likely not to, then that's your choice; it's not mine, and I don't see why it's ridiculous for me or anyone else to point out how wrong Joe Pa and a variety of people within Penn State are.
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I think everyone involved should be prosecuted, including Joe Pa (One of my favorite Coaches and someone that I truly respected) & the Second Chance Organization (or whatever it's called). For someone to do something like Sandusky did, to NUMEROUS CHILDREN (close to 20), means that he's knowledge of right and wrong isn't there....but everyone else that knew about it (this started well before the '98 incident) and not put a stop to it, should be held accountable, because they know what's right and what's wrong.
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This is the point that many of us have been trying to make that I guess you overlooked.
It doesn't matter why he turned his head. It doesn't matter if 90% of people in the same situation have done the same thing (although I seriously doubt that statistic, if accurate in the first place, is applicable to people who have seen a grown man anally raping a child in an open shower room).
The main point is that it was wrong for them to have turned their heads and ignored it. Sure, point and laugh and call us Peter Parker, Arthur Curry, Clark Kent, or whatever else makes you giggle with glee. Point to ambiguous, uncited, and probably irrelevant surveys and say that, statistically speaking, we wouldn't do anything either.
But despite what you say, despite what the surveys say, and despite what has become the "norm" amongst companies and institutions like Penn State, I wouldn't stand for it. Especially not when directly confronted with recurring charges, reports, and suspicious activities.
If you can't see yourself intervening simply because the statistics dictate that you're likely not to, then that's your choice; it's not mine, and I don't see why it's ridiculous for me or anyone else to point out how wrong Joe Pa and a variety of people within Penn State are.
tl;dr
I didn't get past the first part where you said the point I've been making was actually your point.
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Reading comprehension (or, rather, the lack thereof) strikes yet again...
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Reading comprehension strikes yet again...
Actually what struck was "dr"
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Actually what struck was "dr"
Ah, so it's a classic case of "I didn't read your post, but I'm concluding that you agree with me."
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSI2RKgRpg20dxpGY9l6Kjjq5m0gxAxFM3NlXLfqqfCtKtQEW5AqoMh4hLO5w)
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No dumbass.
(http://images.wikia.com/mugen/images/f/f6/Butthead.gif)
You quoted where I said "Doesn't make it right, but it is what it is."
And then you said that was the point you were trying to make all along.
Well no, that was what I said about a kabillion times while the rest of you frothed at the mouth. The rest of some of you, anyway.
So when I saw you claim my point as your own?
tl;drtr
Heath says you're a Internet badass who wouldn't back up the words with action anyway. He says you're the 90%. He's pretty cool so I'm going to go with that.
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No dumbass.
Uh derp uh derp, I never read your post.
Statistics on sexual child abuse are typically lumped together with general child abuse statistics, including neglect, physical abuse, psychological abuse, etc. As I stated in my post (which you apparently didn't read), Heath's survey is likely irrelevant to the discussion regarding the Sandusky situation. Not to mention that one of the individuals involved directly encountered an act, which yet again is probably not the typical situation in your average child abuse survey.
I don't agree with your high and mighty stance that we're all just pussies according to the statistics, and that this is "just the way the world is."
Once more, you repeatedly missed the main point that most of us were making, which is most made evident by this gem:
You're seriously going to tell me that nobody in the history of the world has ever thought about burying something and hoping it goes away until Penn State came along? Wow.
As I've stated from the beginning, and have stated in every post since then, the main point was that what was done was wrong. We weren't concerned with why Joe Pa or anyone else turned their head. We weren't naive to the fact that people do turn their heads. We weren't trying to figure out whether Joe Pa was a part of some alleged 90% of pollsters.
We simply stated that he was wrong for doing so.
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Statistics on sexual child abuse are typically lumped together with general child abuse statistics, including neglect, physical abuse, psychological abuse, etc. As I stated in my post (which you apparently didn't read), Heath's survey is likely irrelevant to the discussion regarding the Sandusky situation. Not to mention that one of the individuals involved directly encountered an act, which yet again is probably not the typical situation in your average child abuse survey.
I don't agree with your high and mighty stance that we're all just pussies according to the statistics, and that this is "just the way the world is."
Once more, you repeatedly missed the main point that most of us were making, which is most made evident by this gem:
As I've stated from the beginning, and have stated in every post since then, the main point was that what was done was wrong. We weren't concerned with why Joe Pa or anyone else turned their head. We weren't naive to the fact that people do turn their heads. We weren't trying to figure out whether Joe Pa was a part of some alleged 90% of pollsters.
We simply stated that he was wrong for doing so.
tl;dr.
Take it up with Heath.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLqz7syHZRI
:facepalm:
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"No, I would not go. And no, I would not want my child to go ... The black eye of this alleged cover up certainly would play a major part in my decision or that of my child.''
-- LaVar Arrington, one of the most celebrated Penn State football players in recent history, writing on his blog -- "Hard Hits,'' on washingtonpost.com -- about whether he would choose to attend Penn State if he had to make that choice today, and whether he would want his child to attend the school.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/11/14/Week10/index.html#ixzz1dmqL07Rk
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:facepalm:
First words out of Bob's mouth: "Where there's smoke, there must be fire."
I no longer believe in smoke.
Acquittal.
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First words out of Bob's mouth: "Where there's smoke, there must be fire."
I no longer believe in smoke.
Acquittal.
If the condom doesn't fit, you must acquitt?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLqz7syHZRI
:facepalm:
That interview was strong. Costas pulled no punches and Sandusky is fucked.
The biggest load of bullshit: his lawyer announcing that despite the state's best efforts, it was Sandusky that found the 10 year old rape victim from 2002. He is going to come forward and exonerate ol' Jerry.
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Pulitzer prize winning author now on Finebaum repeating my basic line of thinking and questioning.
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Pulitzer prize winning author now on Finebaum repeating my basic line of thinking and questioning.
Best to not try establishing credibility by using the name Finebaum in the argument.
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Paterno has lung cancer.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/college-football/joe-paterno-has-lung-cancer-son-says-1.3332152
STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Former Penn State coach Joe Paterno has a treatable form of lung cancer, according to his son.
Scott Paterno said in a statement provided to The Associated Press by a family representative on Friday that the 84-year-old Joe Paterno is undergoing treatment and that "his doctors are optimistic he will make a full recovery."
"As everyone can appreciate, this is a deeply personal matter for my parents, and we simply ask that his privacy be respected as he proceeds with treatment," Scott Paterno said in a brief statement.
Scott Paterno said the diagnosis was made during a follow-up visit last weekend for a bronchial illness.
Earlier Friday, the Standard-Speaker newspaper of Hazleton, Pa., reported that Paterno had been seen Wednesday visiting the Mount Nittany Medical Center and was treated for an undisclosed ailment and released.
Paterno was fired last week in the aftermath of shocking allegations against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, charged with sexually abusing eight boys over 15 years. He initially announced his retirement effective the end of the season the morning of Nov. 9 before university trustees fired him about 12 hours later.
The lurid scandal tarnished the reputation of a football program that once prided itself on the slogan "Success with Honor." The Hall of Famer's 409 career victories are a Division I record.
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Best to not try establishing credibility by using the name Finebaum in the argument.
Just pointing out that the position I had which so mortified and horrified some has also been taken by some pretty credible folks.
This guy saying that even somebody of Paterno's stature was coerced by the fear of his program crashing down around him and how others would use it against him in recruiting and in the push to drive him out.
He made the point that even had Paterno done exactly the right thing and exposed Sandusky in 1998 or 2002 it would have been the end of Paterno's career. It would have forever stained the program. I said that same thing and judging by the reaction of some around here you'd have thought I pissed on the pope's hat.
Despite all the blustering from some, I was confident in that. Still think it. Something like that comes out and you're done. Toast. Even if he does right it's the end for him. So he either didn't hear or didn't want to and heard something else.
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Looks like the NCAA is involved now.
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Just pointing out that the position I had which so mortified and horrified some has also been taken by some pretty credible folks.
This guy saying that even somebody of Paterno's stature was coerced by the fear of his program crashing down around him and how others would use it against him in recruiting and in the push to drive him out.
He made the point that even had Paterno done exactly the right thing and exposed Sandusky in 1998 or 2002 it would have been the end of Paterno's career. It would have forever stained the program. I said that same thing and judging by the reaction of some around here you'd have thought I pissed on the pope's hat.
Despite all the blustering from some, I was confident in that. Still think it. Something like that comes out and you're done. Toast. Even if he does right it's the end for him. So he either didn't hear or didn't want to and heard something else.
I don't think anybody here disagreed with that, we just said that's still a pretty crappy reason to allow a child predator to walk the streets.
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Looks like the NCAA is involved now.
They are, and it's fucking stupid. Finebaum had Dr. David Ridpath on, and he said this looks like the NCAA simply trying to be relevant in the largest scandal in sports in recent memory.
Tony Barnhart said, this isn't in their jurisdiction, and is certainly above their paygrade. Said NCAA legislation is about fundamental fairness of competition, and this has nothing to do with that.
I said it before they did, and I completely agree.
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This guy saying that even somebody of Paterno's stature was coerced by the fear of his program crashing down around him and how others would use it against him in recruiting and in the push to drive him out.
He made the point that even had Paterno done exactly the right thing and exposed Sandusky in 1998 or 2002 it would have been the end of Paterno's career. It would have forever stained the program. I said that same thing and judging by the reaction of some around here you'd have thought I pissed on the pope's hat.
Despite all the blustering from some, I was confident in that. Still think it. Something like that comes out and you're done. Toast. Even if he does right it's the end for him. So he either didn't hear or didn't want to and heard something else.
But, that's why everybody is so pissed. He didn't have the best interest of that child in mind. He was only worried about his career, and his accomplishments. It furthers the point that Paterno more than likely had a hand in a huge cover up. Not that he acted alone in that cover up, but he still participated nonetheless.
Honestly, I think if Paterno did the right thing and came forward to police to let them know this was what was going on, there wouldn't have been nearly the fallout that there is now. The whole reason this has been such a bombshell and newsworthy is because there appears to be a huge conspiracy behind it to bury it. Sure, it would be a hot topic regardless. But when you throw in that Joe Pa was one of the ones that helped cover it up, that's like throwing gasoline on the fire. Reporting it to police wouldn't have stained his personal image at all. If anything, it would show that he had the integrity to stand up for this kid when others didn't. If the administration had taken the same stance and made it very clear that this shit wasn't going to be tolerated, it would be a different ball game.
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But, that's why everybody is so pissed. He didn't have the best interest of that child in mind. He was only worried about his career, and his accomplishments. It furthers the point that Paterno more than likely had a hand in a huge cover up. Not that he acted alone in that cover up, but he still participated nonetheless.
Honestly, I think if Paterno did the right thing and came forward to police to let them know this was what was going on, there wouldn't have been nearly the fallout that there is now. The whole reason this has been such a bombshell and newsworthy is because there appears to be a huge conspiracy behind it to bury it. Sure, it would be a hot topic regardless. But when you throw in that Joe Pa was one of the ones that helped cover it up, that's like throwing gasoline on the fire. Reporting it to police wouldn't have stained his personal image at all. If anything, it would show that he had the integrity to stand up for this kid when others didn't. If the administration had taken the same stance and made it very clear that this shit wasn't going to be tolerated, it would be a different ball game.
tl;ohb (only heard baaaa)
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Just pointing out that the position I had which so mortified and horrified some has also been taken by some pretty credible folks.
This guy saying that even somebody of Paterno's stature was coerced by the fear of his program crashing down around him and how others would use it against him in recruiting and in the push to drive him out.
He made the point that even had Paterno done exactly the right thing and exposed Sandusky in 1998 or 2002 it would have been the end of Paterno's career. It would have forever stained the program. I said that same thing and judging by the reaction of some around here you'd have thought I pissed on the pope's hat.
Despite all the blustering from some, I was confident in that. Still think it. Something like that comes out and you're done. Toast. Even if he does right it's the end for him. So he either didn't hear or didn't want to and heard something else.
I wasn't mortified or horrified. I just simply believe that you and others like you are pussies if you're more concerned about your image being shattered than you are protecting innocent children.
If one of your employees was caught fucking a 10 year old in the office restroom, and you didn't report it to law enforcement, I'd wish the same outcome for you that I did Paterno. Including the cancer.
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Pulitzer prize winning author now on Finebaum repeating my basic line of thinking and questioning.
Anna Quindlen and Dave Barry have also won a Pulitzer. BFD. There are no - NO - good reasons to allow the predation of children to continue. None.
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Anna Quindlen and Dave Barry have also won a Pulitzer. BFD. There are no - NO - good reasons to allow the predation of children to continue. None.
Blippity blah.
You and Token can spare me the moral outrage. Nobody said Paterno was a saint. Just pointed out the truth of the situation and how it comes about. Why it comes about. Said way early on that figuring out why was important to understanding how to keep it from happening. Said early on and repeatedly that I wasn't making pronouncements, merely noting what is and that it happens way fucking more than any of you care to admit.
It happens to good and decent people. It happens to people you'd never think capable. They make a decision based on self preservation and it backfires. They make a decision because what they're told can't make sense in their minds, it has to be something else. And it snowballs.
So pfffffffffffftttttttttt on the pious routine and the complete deflection of my point into an opportunity to state that predators are bad and shouldn't be protected. Well no shit, sherlock. Pfft.
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Blippity blah.
You and Token can spare me the moral outrage. Nobody said Paterno was a saint. Just pointed out the truth of the situation and how it comes about. Why it comes about. Said way early on that figuring out why was important to understanding how to keep it from happening. Said early on and repeatedly that I wasn't making pronouncements, merely noting what is and that it happens way fucking more than any of you care to admit.
It happens to good and decent people. It happens to people you'd never think capable. They make a decision based on self preservation and it backfires. They make a decision because what they're told can't make sense in their minds, it has to be something else. And it snowballs.
So pfffffffffffftttttttttt on the pious routine and the complete deflection of my point into an opportunity to state that predators are bad and shouldn't be protected. Well no shit, sherlock. Pfft.
Pussy.
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Pussy.
Bammer with a badge.
Came to erase it because I figured the two of you were being purposely obtuse. Oh well. Never once said what I would or wouldn't do, only remarked on the situation as it is, not some idealized version.
Heath Evans, who knows more about the topic than any of us, said that all the bluster about what people would do was nothing but hot air bullshit. Because when confronted with it in their own lives they don't.
Doesn't excuse it. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't indicate what I would personally do.
Again, pfffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt. ttt.
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Bammer with a badge.
Came to erase it because I figured the two of you were being purposely obtuse. Oh well. Never once said what I would or wouldn't do, only remarked on the situation as it is, not some idealized version.
Heath Evans, who knows more about the topic than any of us, said that all the bluster about what people would do was nothing but hot air bullshit. Because when confronted with it in their own lives they don't.
Doesn't excuse it. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't indicate what I would personally do.
Again, pfffffftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt. ttt.
I still refuse to believe that most people could walk in on a child being molested and walk away. But yes, at this point, I'm simply trying to get a rise out of you.
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At a Ohio State tailgate this morning.
(https://p.twimg.com/Aen8cu2CMAA5IH0.jpg)
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Found this while looking for Corso quotes. From a few years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjgR6vsFMwQ&
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At a Ohio State tailgate this morning.
(https://p.twimg.com/Aen8cu2CMAA5IH0.jpg)
#winning
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Doesn't indicate what I would personally do.
So, what would you personally do?
WWKD?
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Found this while looking for Corso quotes. From a few years ago.
What about this one from last week?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekke7OtG_24
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Bill Maher's take on it (from The View):
"Just goes to show you that any institution when there are no women around -- like the church, football, the Middle East, fraternities -- it goes to hell. You need women as a moderating influence. When men are among men they do stupid things."
The idiot cows (including Behar and Whoopi) cheered like loons.
What a fucking IDIOT.
This isn't a "men will be men" issue in any way, shape or form. Sandusky's behavior is a manifestation of his personal depravity.
It's offensive for that fuckstick to dismiss Sandusky's actions as part of a "man thing."
Yeah, when I played baseball all I could think about was that kid in the stands pulling on his cotton candy. Thank God there were women around later to moderate me.
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Bill Maher's take on it (from The View):
"Just goes to show you that any institution when there are no women around -- like the church, football, the Middle East, fraternities -- it goes to hell. You need women as a moderating influence. When men are among men they do stupid things."
The idiot cows (including Behar and Whoopi) cheered like loons.
What a fucking IDIOT.
This isn't a "men will be men" issue in any way, shape or form. Sandusky's behavior is a manifestation of his personal depravity.
It's offensive for that fuckstick to dismiss Sandusky's actions as part of a "man thing."
Yeah, when I played baseball all I could think about was that kid in the stands pulling on his cotton candy. Thank God there were hot moms around later to moderate me for me to pull on my own cotton candy.
Fixt.
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Bill Maher's take on it (from The View):
"Just goes to show you that any institution when there are no women around -- like the church, football, the Middle East, fraternities -- it goes to hell. You need women as a moderating influence. When men are among men they do stupid things."
The idiot cows (including Behar and Whoopi) cheered like loons.
What a fucking IDIOT.
This isn't a "men will be men" issue in any way, shape or form. Sandusky's behavior is a manifestation of his personal depravity.
It's offensive for that fuckstick to dismiss Sandusky's actions as part of a "man thing."
Yeah, when I played baseball all I could think about was that kid in the stands pulling on his cotton candy. Thank God there were women around later to moderate me.
Yeah, men will be men, and the only way to separate the men from the boys is with a crowbar
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Yeah, men will be men, and the only way to separate the men from the boys is with a crowbar
Says more about Maher's state of mind than anything. Sicko.
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Says more about Maher's state of mind than anything. Sicko.
Can I ask why you were watching The View?
Or Bill Maher?
Or both at the same time? I would have puked up my lunch.
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Can I ask why you were watching The View?
Or Bill Maher?
Or both at the same time? I would have puked up my lunch.
He's been hooked ever since Star Jackson
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He's been hooked ever since Star Jackson
I am thinking he dreams about being the meat in a Whoopi/Behar sandwich. Question is, which one would be in front of him?
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I am thinking he dreams about being the meat in a Whoopi/Behar sandwich. Question is, which one would be in front of him?
I would be more concerned about which one was in back.
I think one of them is hiding an oscar meyer.
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Can I ask why you were watching The View?
Or Bill Maher?
Or both at the same time? I would have puked up my lunch.
I occasionally watch
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/01/06/amd_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.famouswhy.com/pictures/people/elisabeth_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.topnews.in/files/Elisabeth-Hasselbeck.jpg)
because I think she's hot and has great taste in shoes.
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I occasionally watch
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/01/06/amd_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.famouswhy.com/pictures/people/elisabeth_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.topnews.in/files/Elisabeth-Hasselbeck.jpg)
because I think she's hot and has great taste in shoes.
Only when behind her head.
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I think one of them is hiding an oscar meyer.
I would have to put my money on the burnt wiener.
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I occasionally watch
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/01/06/amd_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.famouswhy.com/pictures/people/elisabeth_hasselbeck.jpg)(http://www.topnews.in/files/Elisabeth-Hasselbeck.jpg)
because I think she's hot and has great taste in shoes.
I'll concede that she is quite the cutie. I am not sure why she subjects herself to that horse dung called "The View".
Bill Maher can go fuck himself with a splintered shovel handle.
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I would have to put my money on the burnt wiener.
Yes, she probably has the bigger weiner of the two.
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has great taste in shoes.
At first I was like :facepalm:
then I remembered you have once admitted to a foot fetish.
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I disagree with most things Maher says, but enjoy the debate on his show.
This, however, is beyond a stupid.
It may have merit if it was about stripper abortions at the U or something, but in the Sandusky case? Yeah, that's a real man's-man move, raping little boys in the shower. Regular lumberjack, that Sandusky. When I think of an 80 year old man raping a 10 year old in the shower I think of the 2 1/2 men theme. I think of Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Carolla chanting "Ziggy Zaggy, Ziggy Zaggy, Oi Oi Oi" before chugging a beer.
:taunt:
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At first I was like :facepalm:
then I remembered you have once admitted to a foot fetish.
And so you were like :facepalm: :facepalm:?
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And so you were like :facepalm: :facepalm:?
*snicker*
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I disagree with most things Maher says, but enjoy the debate on his show.
This, however, is beyond a stupid.
It may have merit if it was about stripper abortions at the U or something, but in the Sandusky case? Yeah, that's a real man's-man move, raping little boys in the shower. Regular lumberjack, that Sandusky. When I think of an 80 year old man raping a 10 year old in the shower I think of the 2 1/2 men theme. I think of Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Carolla chanting "Ziggy Zaggy, Ziggy Zaggy, Oi Oi Oi" before chugging a beer.
:taunt:
I think he was probably trying to play to his ultra feminist audience. Men just can't do anything right without women. Left unmonitored long enough and they'll fondle boys. Yep, real idiot he is. I'm sure the hosts and the audience ate it up.
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Bill Maher can go fuck himself with a splintered shovel handle.
Once prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife in that fashion.
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Once prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife in that fashion.
Um.
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Once prosecuted a guy for murdering his wife in that fashion.
I take it that neither got off?
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I take it that neither got off?
Hustle. This man has it.
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I take it that neither got off?
:rimshot:
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At first I was like :facepalm:
then I remembered you have once admitted to a foot fetish.
No. I like shoes. Feet should be clean and neat and I tend to judge women by how well they care for them but no fetish.
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I like shoes.
Fag.
Oh, and your privilege to criticize somebody for the TV shows that they watch is hereby revoked. Way revoked.
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Fag.
Oh, and your privilege to criticize somebody for the TV shows that they watch is hereby revoked. Way revoked.
Fuck you, sexy shoes are teh titz!
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Fuck you, sexy shoes are teh titz!
Are you an avid viewer of The View as well?
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Are you an avid viewer of The View as well?
RWS's ideal "View"
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jo-QQqVfd6E/Tizaw199rqI/AAAAAAAAApE/3_AhA8zXt18/s320/goats-new2.jpg)
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RWS's ideal "View"
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jo-QQqVfd6E/Tizaw199rqI/AAAAAAAAApE/3_AhA8zXt18/s320/goats-new2.jpg)
:muttley:
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RWS's ideal "View"
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jo-QQqVfd6E/Tizaw199rqI/AAAAAAAAApE/3_AhA8zXt18/s320/goats-new2.jpg)
I heard RWS (ruts whth sheep) was going to watch The View once but only because he misheard and thought it was "The Ewe".
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I heard RWS (ruts whth sheep) was going to watch The View once but only because he misheard and thought it was "The Ewe".
He sings to them
"I only have eyes for ewe"
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Are you an avid viewer of The View as well?
No, but Elizabeth Hasslebeck is nice looking, conservative, and I dig on nice shoes and well pedicured feet in them.
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No, but Elizabeth Hasslebeck is nice looking, conservative, and I dig on nice shoes and well pedicured feet in them.
Used to watch it a lot when I was working more from home than anywhere else. Background noise even with the sound muted. Laptop, recliner, work, Elisabeth. What the fuck else is on at 10 a.m. weekdays? Drew Carrey fucking up Price is Right? No thanks.
Now? Road and office more than I used to. Haven't seen The View live in probably 18 months. Ran across this clip originally as a sidebar to a FoxNews.com story and fished it from there.
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Used to watch it a lot when I was working more from home than anywhere else. Background noise even with the sound muted. Laptop, recliner, work, Elisabeth. What the fuck else is on at 10 a.m. weekdays? Drew Carrey fucking up Price is Right? No thanks.
Now? Road and office more than I used to. Haven't seen The View live in probably 18 months. Ran across this clip originally as a sidebar to a FoxNews.com story and fished it from there.
Shut your dirty whorish mouf about Drew Carey. He hates democrats. And was pretty funny on that show he had with that fat chick that wore a lot of make up. I give him a pass on TPIR since replacing Bob is almost impossible.
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Shut your dirty whorish mouf about Drew Carey. He hates democrats. And was pretty funny on that show he had with that fat chick that wore a lot of make up. I give him a pass on TPIR since replacing Bob is almost impossible.
Big Libertarian. Big contributor to Reason magazine.
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Big Libertarian. Big contributor to Reason magazine.
I see you've done your homework. I actually dig most of Carey's politics. He is a conservative leaning Libertarian which I kind of am too. I know you don't believe it but I IS. Its the part of "don't tell me what to do and stay out of my personal life" that I agree with Libertarians on. With the caveat being what the person is doing isn't hurting someone else.
But I also agree with Kaos in the regard that Hasselbeck is a nice piece of classy ass.
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Big Libertarian. Big contributor to Reason magazine.
Yep. I like Carey's politics. Hell I like a lot of Ron Paul's politics, but some of their shit gets way too far out there for me.
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RWS's ideal "View"
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jo-QQqVfd6E/Tizaw199rqI/AAAAAAAAApE/3_AhA8zXt18/s320/goats-new2.jpg)
Hard to tell with the size of the pic, but either thats a nanny goat or that fucker has the biggest set of nuts Ive ever seen.
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If I can't find anything on television, then I just put Road House on repeat.
I've never really paid attention to Swayze's feet, but I'm sure they're nice.
(http://blogs.amctv.com/future-of-classic/Road_House_560.jpg)
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Big Ten loves to pedo:
Bo Schembechlerelsersioernaesr whatever that asshole's name was knew that the team doc was a diddler. Did nothing.
In 1969, a young Matt Schembechler sat in his family's Ann Arbor home, waiting for his dad to come in. He had news he needed to share — he had been sexually assaulted by the doctor that his dad, Bo Schembechler, then in the first year of what turned into an iconic career coaching the University of Michigan football team, had sent him to for a routine physical.
He thought that would end the doctor's career at U-M.
It didn't.
Dr. Robert Anderson went on to work as a doctor at U-M until 2002, including being the head medical doctor for Schembechler's teams.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2021/06/09/michigan-football-matt-bo-schembechler-sexual-assault-1969/7627659002/
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Big Ten loves to pedo:
Bo Schembechlerelsersioernaesr whatever that asshole's name was knew that the team doc was a diddler. Did nothing.
In 1969, a young Matt Schembechler sat in his family's Ann Arbor home, waiting for his dad to come in. He had news he needed to share — he had been sexually assaulted by the doctor that his dad, Bo Schembechler, then in the first year of what turned into an iconic career coaching the University of Michigan football team, had sent him to for a routine physical.
He thought that would end the doctor's career at U-M.
It didn't.
Dr. Robert Anderson went on to work as a doctor at U-M until 2002, including being the head medical doctor for Schembechler's teams.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2021/06/09/michigan-football-matt-bo-schembechler-sexual-assault-1969/7627659002/
I'm going to have to hear it from somebody other than his adopted, grifter, estranged, angry son 40 years after the fact. Particularly when this is the same asscat who's already sued Shembechler and the University of Michigan for keeping him from making profit off his name by selling stuff he scavenged from the stadium. Especially when the guy isn't around any more to defend himself.
The two players weren't convincing either.
I'm gonna pass on this "story."
Fuck Matt Shembechler.
His sadness and pain hasn't kept this douche from selling pieces of old wood he claims are former Michigan stadium bleachers with his adopted dad's face burned into them. Fucking grifter.
He's pissed he was left out of the will.
His entire existence is based on the borrowed name he got.
So double fuck him.
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I'm going to have to hear it from somebody other than his adopted, grifter, estranged, angry son 40 years after the fact. Particularly when this is the same asscat who's already sued Shembechler and the University of Michigan for keeping him from making profit off his name by selling stuff he scavenged from the stadium. Especially when the guy isn't around any more to defend himself.
The two players weren't convincing either.
I'm gonna pass on this "story."
Fuck Matt Shembechler.
His sadness and pain hasn't kept this douche from selling pieces of old wood he claims are former Michigan stadium bleachers with his adopted dad's face burned into them. Fucking grifter.
He's pissed he was left out of the will.
His entire existence is based on the borrowed name he got.
So double fuck him.
#himtoo will be contacting you soon.