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George Wallace's daughter: Dumb

Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2013, 02:12:12 PM »
tl;don't care

If your pondering of the segregation issue leaves you with "I don't know" as your answer, then the rest of this is just self-serving blather.

Forced anything is not the answer.

I don't know is the only appropriate response. 
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Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2013, 02:26:40 PM »
Forced integration in the way that it was implemented in this country is THE single reason why our education system is failing in America today.

Not only that, but it was the plan of the left to eventually make every child a compliant government drone all equal. If you do not believe that, then you are the perfect example of what they are trying to create. Have a child that is outside the norm, either above or below, and see how that works out for you. If yu are not on top of it 24/7, they will eventually strive to move each child to a position of equality. Mainstream takes less work.

Very true.  Wonder what Townhall's take would be. 

When I was teaching the administration would spend hours trying to get the "mix" right.  So many smart kids, so many dumb kids, so many blacks, so many whites, couldn't have the two Asians in the same class... it was ridiculous. 

I ended up being able to do NOTHING with those classes.  The smart kids were bored and I couldn't keep them engaged.  The dumb couldn't stay up.  I ended up teaching to the middle.  Failed the smart kids because I couldn't inspire them to do more.  Failed the dumb kids because I couldn't linger on the topics that they struggled with.  The middle didn't care.

When my daughter was going into sixth grade they split her and her best friend into different classes. We noticed that they'd taken several of the brighers kids and divided them between different classes. The rationale when we asked was that "we need them in different classes to help pull the others up."  I rejected that argument.  It's not my child's place to pull up the class. I'd prefer that she be tracked with other students of similar intelligence, interest and aptitude.  She wasn't going to pull a class full of meth momma clowns up, they would only pull her down.  That's the great fallacy of education today.  You can't cater to the best, you have to bow to the lowest.  I pulled her out and put her in private school after that. 
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2013, 02:51:56 PM »
Y'all apparently just have experience with really shitty school systems.

From the 1st grade the smart kids were culled and catered to in the Okaloosa County school system.

My Jr High/High Honors and AP classes were racially diverse and had none of the problems you are bemoaning.  There were lesser Honors classes for the next tier, then there were regular classes and finally we had remedial classes for the ruh-tards.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2013, 02:57:08 PM »
I was top of my class in remedial gym
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2013, 03:05:36 PM »
Okaloosa county - 82.7% white. So now we know where you get your ideas about integration and education from.
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2013, 03:12:47 PM »
Okaloosa county - 82.7% white. So now we know where you get your ideas about integration and education from.

My elementary school was lily white, but when it came time to head to FWB for Jr High and High school, there was a massive education in getting along with the various ethnicities.

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WiregrassTiger

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2013, 03:46:23 PM »
My elementary school was lily white, but when it came time to head to FWB for Jr High and High school, there was a massive education in getting along with the various ethnicities.
I'm sure you "got along" with those ethnic girls just fine. I know how sweet the brown sugar is too.
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2013, 03:48:36 PM »
I'm sure you "got along" with those ethnic girls just fine. I know how sweet the brown sugar is too.

Don't forget the asians and hispanics.  My love knows no color boundary.
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Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2013, 04:10:59 PM »
Y'all apparently just have experience with really shootty school systems.

From the 1st grade the smart kids were culled and catered to in the Okaloosa County school system.

My Jr High/High Honors and AP classes were racially diverse and had none of the problems you are bemoaning.  There were lesser Honors classes for the next tier, then there were regular classes and finally we had remedial classes for the ruh-tards.

Yeah.  They have honors classes and special programs. 

Maybe the trend is back toward tracking. I haven't seen it as much as I'd like.  The problem is when you have Big Betty's parents and they think Big Betty is a genius and can't understand why her score of 34 on the placement test isn't good enough to get her in the class with her friends who are way smarter. 

All of the classes I took preached inclusion and mainstreaming.  You have to do the same for the chocolate-faced kid who crapped his trousers for fun as you did the kid who had his eyes on MIT. 
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wesfau2

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2013, 04:14:47 PM »
Yeah.  They have honors classes and special programs. 

Maybe the trend is back toward tracking. I haven't seen it as much as I'd like.  The problem is when you have Big Betty's parents and they think Big Betty is a genius and can't understand why her score of 34 on the placement test isn't good enough to get her in the class with her friends who are way smarter. 

All of the classes I took preached inclusion and mainstreaming.  You have to do the same for the chocolate-faced kid who crapped his trousers for fun as you did the kid who had his eyes on MIT.

That's an indictment of that particular school system and a topic wholly separate from segregation, obviously.
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Kaos

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2013, 04:30:00 PM »
That's an indictment of that particular school system and a topic wholly separate from segregation, obviously.

This discussion has sprawled everywhere. 

Points:

1) If left to their own devices, people will naturally segregate themselves based on race, culture, traditions, belief systems, etc.  It is our natural and normal state to prefer company of people who are like us. 
2) Forcing anything -- whether it be integration or segregation --  is wrong when the government is the one doing the forcing.  Enforce laws that matter -- like don't kill and don't steal -- just don't square peg/round hole some dimwit's view of what a utopian society should look like through force.
3) George Wallace opposed federal government efforts to interfere in society.  He never said that people shouldn't have equal rights or opportunity, he merely opposed efforts to artificially create those things by forcing societal change.
4) I support Wallace's position now as I did then.  Less government. Less telling me what I can and can't do with property that belongs to me.  If I'm a business owner I should have the right to deny service to blacks, Asians, Bama fans, people with moustaches or anybody wearing a Dave Matthews shirt if I want to.  It's my business. I should be able to hire who I want, serve who I want and make or break on those decisions.  As a home owner I should not be required to rent to anyone with a pulse.  If I choose to make my home unavailable to douchebags in wife-beater t's that should be my right.  I own the house. I bought it with money I earned. 

So in sum, I support segregation on an individual basis if that's what people want to do.  I support integration on an individual basis if that's what people want to do.  I oppose any effort by the federal government to force either on me.  God Bless George C. Wallace. 
3)
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2013, 06:31:11 PM »
Very true.  Wonder what Townhall's take would be. 

Forced integration in the way that it was implemented in this country is THE single reason why our education system is failing in America today.

The single reason?  Not by a mile. 

Our education system isn't technically failing.  That word usage is more chicanery than indicative of the current state.  If you're in an affluent area, your education is just fine.  You'll score well on test scores.  You'll graduate.  You'll go to college where you have the freedom to do well and succeed or not, which most people do succeed one way or another. 

When you hear that the education system is failing, it means that the education system is failing poor minorities.  More so the poor, really.  Is it because of integration?  No.  If you still segregated schools, impoverished black kids in Ensley would still be drop outs, drug dealers, and dimwits all the same.  There's no reason to think that integration is keeping the black kid from succeeding.  And most affluent areas are still white enough to prevent the impoverished kids from affecting their scores.  Just look at Hoover, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Oak Mountain, Pelham, Trussville, and Spain Park for examples. 

Quote
Not only that, but it was the plan of the left to eventually make every child a compliant government drone all equal. If you do not believe that, then you are the perfect example of what they are trying to create. Have a child that is outside the norm, either above or below, and see how that works out for you. If yu are not on top of it 24/7, they will eventually strive to move each child to a position of equality. Mainstream takes less work.

This is conspiracy rubbish.  My wife is a GRC teacher and is paid by the government to cultivate creativity in our young gifted and talented.  There are IB, AP, honors, and advanced classes for students to take.  And colleges and universities aren't forcing kids to be government drones by any means. 

The fact is that for hundreds of years, in Western civilization, in Europe, and in most other areas, a society has had a peasant class.  The peasants often did hard labor jobs which in our recent memory included working in factories and working in fields.  We're outsourcing many of those factory jobs and also using cheap immigrants to work in the fields.  So it's easy to look at the lower class kid or the subpar kid and think we're failing them.  We aren't figuring out how to make them poets or musicians or engineers or doctors or writers, and we're blaming the system.  It may be easy to think the government is just shoving government drivel down their throats and making them drones, when in reality, they're nothing more than a drone anyway.  They need a disciplined occupation that rings a bell when it's time to complete the mindless task and rings a separate bell when it's time to stop.  Your higher level kids are being vilified by some, but as for actually being hindered by the system?  I don't think so. 

But back to the original thought - I never once thought, "If only these black kids were back at their own schools, then maybe we'd be better off."  As for granting leniency to black kids on test scores, that's a different story.
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

GH2001

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2013, 08:29:31 PM »
The single reason?  Not by a mile. 

Our education system isn't technically failing.  That word usage is more chicanery than indicative of the current state.  If you're in an affluent area, your education is just fine.  You'll score well on test scores.  You'll graduate.  You'll go to college where you have the freedom to do well and succeed or not, which most people do succeed one way or another. 

When you hear that the education system is failing, it means that the education system is failing poor minorities.  More so the poor, really.  Is it because of integration?  No.  If you still segregated schools, impoverished black kids in Ensley would still be drop outs, drug dealers, and dimwits all the same.  There's no reason to think that integration is keeping the black kid from succeeding.  And most affluent areas are still white enough to prevent the impoverished kids from affecting their scores.  Just look at Hoover, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Oak Mountain, Pelham, Trussville, and Spain Park for examples. 

This is conspiracy rubbish.  My wife is a GRC teacher and is paid by the government to cultivate creativity in our young gifted and talented.  There are IB, AP, honors, and advanced classes for students to take.  And colleges and universities aren't forcing kids to be government drones by any means. 

The fact is that for hundreds of years, in Western civilization, in Europe, and in most other areas, a society has had a peasant class.  The peasants often did hard labor jobs which in our recent memory included working in factories and working in fields.  We're outsourcing many of those factory jobs and also using cheap immigrants to work in the fields.  So it's easy to look at the lower class kid or the subpar kid and think we're failing them.  We aren't figuring out how to make them poets or musicians or engineers or doctors or writers, and we're blaming the system.  It may be easy to think the government is just shoving government drivel down their throats and making them drones, when in reality, they're nothing more than a drone anyway.  They need a disciplined occupation that rings a bell when it's time to complete the mindless task and rings a separate bell when it's time to stop.  Your higher level kids are being vilified by some, but as for actually being hindered by the system?  I don't think so. 

But back to the original thought - I never once thought, "If only these black kids were back at their own schools, then maybe we'd be better off."  As for granting leniency to black kids on test scores, that's a different story.

I'm thinking Kaos may be thinking more along the lines of, a lot of the issue in the education system is due to certain govt morons trying to force an equal outcome. NCLB put that concept on steroids. And I know you can attest to that.

Forcing an equal outcome is the most asinine concept. It's not natural and were NOT all equal. It's just a fact. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Another thing they seem to think they can also do is throw endless money at a situation.
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2013, 09:18:33 PM »
I'm thinking Kaos may be thinking more along the lines of, a lot of the issue in the education system is due to certain govt morons trying to force an equal outcome. NCLB put that concept on steroids. And I know you can attest to that.

Forcing an equal outcome is the most asinine concept. It's not natural and were NOT all equal. It's just a fact. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Another thing they seem to think they can also do is throw endless money at a situation.

Oh, well, yeah.  I agree with that.  Forcing an equal outcome is impossible.  Giving everybody the same opportunity for the highest outcome is a necessity. 
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CCTAU

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #74 on: June 12, 2013, 10:58:09 PM »
Oh, well, yeah.  I agree with that.  Forcing an equal outcome is impossible.  Giving everybody the same opportunity for the highest outcome is a necessity.

You misread my statement. I did not say that integration caused this. I said that forced integration in the way that it was implemented caused this.

Like Kaos said, the sorry crabs pull the other back down. Integration set education back 20 years. It did nothing to increase the abilities of the children. All it did was set the standard lower.

So now we have an older generation that excelled in education and sent men to the moon (if you believe that) using an abacus. And we have all of the generations since that struggle to use a calculator. Sure we still ahve many smart people, but you will always have geniuses. Its the education system as a whole that is still behind. And why? because we successfully dragged the whole thing backwards at the time of integration.

I do not believe that integration was wrong, just the way it was implemented.

And yes, Kaos is correct. People segregate themselves. It's the government that thinks we should all be staggered like different dominoes.

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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

AUChizad

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2013, 02:36:45 PM »
He'd be a Republican today.

Saw this today and was reminded of this claim.

http://classic.lagniappemobile.com/article.asp?articleID=6538&sid=8

Quote
The Beltway Beat by Jeff Poor

JUNE 26, 2013
 
WASHINGTON — Earlier this month, MSNBC host and part-time L’Oréal cosmetics model Chris Hayes made the error of labeling former Democratic Gov. George Wallace a Republican.

Hayes, as a liberal media figure who represents the mainstream of Democratic Party, was accused of trying to hide the Democratic Party’s racist past by mislabeling Wallace. He apologized the next day for the misidentification. Ironically, Hayes’ discussion of the former Democratic governor came 50 years to the day after Wallace made his infamous stand in the schoolhouse door at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa.

But what Hayes failed to mention was that not only was Wallace not a Republican, he wasn’t a conservative either, at least in a traditional sense.

Sure, Wallace co-opted the states’ rights/federalism argument, traditionally a conservative position, for the purpose of preserving segregation. But the bulk of his policies were not a reflection of Ronald Reagan conservatism.

On a national level, Wallace will always be seen as one of the villains of the Civil Rights Era.

While those in the left-leaning media would love to tie Wallace’s racist rants to the Republican Party, the Democratic governor’s policies were far more in line with populism and modern liberalism.

Wallace served as governor three separate times for four terms, but during those four terms it was quite clear he was motivated by populism, not ideology. Beyond the segregationism for which he earned fame, he as a governor was applauded for his economic endeavors.

But since Wallace was in perpetual campaign mode — whether it be for governor, president or promoting his wife’s 1966 gubernatorial campaign, he was in hock to those who supported his campaigns and often rewarded their loyalty with state contracts.

Even in my lifetime, the Interstates 20, 59 and 65 near and through Birmingham were left unfinished, all because Wallace saw that as a way to punish his political opponents in that city.

He also created the state junior college system that in later years would be a part-time playground for Democratic politicians ripe for corruption. Do any of those antics ring a bell, Mobilians?

But as a presidential politician, Wallace was even more of a creature of the left. Parts of his 1968 platform with running mate Curtis LeMay could have come straight out of the 2012 Democratic Party platform:

Job training and opportunity for all Americans willing and able to seek and bold gainful employment.

An alliance and partnership with the private sector of our economy seeking an end to poverty among our people.

An insistence that the laboring man and woman be given his fair share of responsibility and reward for the development of the mighty potential of this nation.

Likely the most compelling proof that Wallace was not a conservative, however, is his ticket’s position on health care:

"It is the obligation of a responsible government to help people who are unable to help themselves. There should be adequate medical assistance available to the aged and those unable to afford treatment. This can best be achieved through a partnership between federal and state governments and private enterprise. Medicare should be improved. It should be strengthened in conjunction with medical care provided at state and local governmental levels and by private insurance.”

That sounds a lot like the same rhetoric coming out of the White House and congressional Democrats in 2009 and early 2010 during the Obamacare debate.

"In this land of plenty, no one should be denied adequate medical care because of his financial condition,” the document concludes.

In his last term as governor of Alabama, Wallace somehow won forgiveness from African-Americans. In the 1982 gubernatorial election, Wallace won an unprecedented amount of the black vote during the general election. And he would ultimately align the forces to create the so-called "Wallace Coalition” that would plague Goat Hill for nearly the next three decades — labor unions, the AEA, black political organizations and trial lawyers. It’s a pretty safe bet the John Birch Society didn’t have a seat at that table in the 1980s.

It’s a well-known phenomenon that after the Civil War, the South was solidly Democrat, which was not necessarily a reflection of ideology, but more of a protest vote against the Union. During the 1980s and 1990s, the South was undergoing a transition politically where it voted Democrat in local elections and Republican in national elections. And then finally in 2010, the last remnants of that phenomenon fell in Alabama when the Republicans controlled the House, Senate and the Governor’s Mansion all at the same time.

And Wallace wasn’t a "conservative” running under the Democratic Party label out of political necessity. He was a Democrat with many left-wing tendencies that built-up his populist appeal. And labeling him "conservative” solely because he was a segregationist is frankly ignorant.
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GH2001

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #76 on: July 02, 2013, 01:48:10 PM »
Why did he even mention Wallace and "Reagan conservative" ? Most of Wallace's career was over before the term Reagan conservative was even a thing. Wallace was first and foremost a "Dixiecrat".  Well, until Forrest Gump posted up on him by helping that colored who dropped her book.
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #77 on: July 02, 2013, 01:51:13 PM »
Why did he even mention Wallace and "Reagan conservative" ? Most of Wallace's career was over before the term Reagan conservative was even a thing. Wallace was first and foremost a "Dixiecrat".  Well, until Forrest Gump posted up on him by helping that colored who dropped her book.

Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

GH2001

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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #78 on: July 02, 2013, 01:52:22 PM »
Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.

Not raccoons you idiot 
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Re: George Wallace's daughter: Dumb
« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2013, 02:41:22 PM »
Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.

Paula Deen's your mother?
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