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Worlds worst analogies

AUChizad

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2010, 01:34:00 PM »
Here's why I disagree...

In the band KISS (or Aerosmith, or Led Zeppelin, etc), the band members are the one's that control the music...they write the songs...they own what they are.  The members of KISS create the melody, the rhythm, the words, etc.  It's all from within them.

However, you actually can get quite a few "cover" musicians that can reproduce accurately the "notes", and therefore the song.  That "cover" guy could never have created it all though...he can only play it.  And as for playing it, some will lack the "touch" or the "flare" that another may have had, but either way, they can play the notes to some varying degree of success.

Likewise...I think the same thing is missing in your analogy....the coaches are KISS....not Ben Tate or Chris Todd.  

Ben Tate and Chris Todd are the equivalent of the "cover" guy...asked to step in and perform the song written by someone else.

Tate and Todd were the ones "plugged in" to perform the songs written by Malzahn.  Tate performed his role pretty well, hitting the notes, and even doing so with a "style" we all appreciated.  Todd, at times, played his notes perfectly, but more often than not he was obviously lacking the skill to play the rifts Malzahn had put in front of him.  

Next year Malzahn will plug in two new musicians to try to "cover" the songs he's written.  Will Newton look at the sheet music put before him and comfortably and creatively "play it" the way Malzahn intended it to be played?  Will Aycock or Dyer or whoever be able to play the same chords Tate played with as much success and flare as Tate did?

The point is, we aren't asking two new guys to be the next contributing members of Led Zeppelin.  Trying to replace Paige and Plant?  Yeah, monumental task.  Trying to replace members of ZoSo or Blackdog or any other cover band?  Somewhat of a task, sure, but not even remotely the same thing as replacing Paige, Plant, Bonham, etc.  

We are trying to find the next members of the cover band to see how close they can play what Jimmy Paige (Gus Malzahn) originally wrote.  

The good news for our offense is this...Todd was "wedding singer" quality at being a lead guitar cover man.  He could get through the song, but he offered nothing of his own style or flare, and wasn't even that good at simply reproducing the notes.  Replacing him with someone at least equally as mediocre shouldn't be too hard.

For Tate, he was much better.  He was successful at what he did, no question.  The good news?  We don't have just one or two new applicants for filling his vacated spot.  We have Aycock, Dyer, Smith, Fannin, etc.  And from the tapes we've heard and glimpses we've seen, we have reason to think at least one of those guys could adequately play Malzahn's music to the same degree Tate did.

To me, the hope I have that the offense will be at least as good as last year isn't blind hope.  It's founded on some pretty decent logic I think.  By the way, I know you're not saying the offense will NOT be as good..you're just saying why you're not assuming it.  I'm not assuming it either, but I am expecting it.

:thumsup:
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jadennis

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2010, 01:46:30 PM »
KISS is Who, Who is KISS and Christy is the bimbo!

Well, now that we've all had Mouseketeer roll call, I'm just going to go call my lawyer.

(I cheated)
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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2010, 02:00:21 PM »
Gus Malzahn is Gene Simmons....see my "too long" post above.

Sounds more like you see Auburn football as a boy band and Malzhan/Chizik as the Max Martin role.
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Godfather

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2010, 02:02:25 PM »
I might change this thread name to "Worlds worst analogies"
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Buzz Killington

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2010, 02:07:26 PM »
Hey, I'll tell you what. You can get a good look at a butcher's ass by sticking your head up there.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2010, 02:08:59 PM »
No, I mean is, you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher's ass... No, wait.
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wesfau2

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2010, 02:10:58 PM »
Trying to replace members of ZoSo or Blackdog or any other cover band?  Somewhat of a task, sure, but not even remotely the same thing as replacing Paige, Plant, Bonham, etc.  

So, what you're really saying is that Chris Todd is a midget, Gene Simmons wannabe?

Well, midgets aren't that easy to come by.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 02:11:42 PM by wesfau2 »
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Godfather

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2010, 02:13:51 PM »
Well, midgets aren't that easy to come by.

Not according to KISS



The sad thing is when I saw this during the Superbowl I actually thought to myself I wonder if K is pulling it right now.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 02:14:38 PM by Godfather »
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jadennis

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2010, 02:29:20 PM »
No, I mean is, you can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a butcher's ass... No, wait.

....no wait, that's gotta be your bull...
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Tiger Wench

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2010, 02:31:00 PM »
KISS is Who, Who is KISS and Christy is the bimbo!
People better stop calling me bimbo!

Mainly because I am the secret of his success...

(+5 to me!!)
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AUTiger1

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2010, 02:34:29 PM »
Question?  Have we ever had a thread on this board that wasn't hijacked? 

back on topic...........everyone knows that Tate and Todd would look stupid in the makeup and costumes so why are we even thinking they would become members of KISS?
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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2010, 02:35:01 PM »
I might change this thread name to "Worlds worst analogies"

Done and done!
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wesfau2

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2010, 02:36:01 PM »
Done and done!

Uh...I'm not entirely sure you get the meaning of that saying.

Ah....I'm an idiot.  The thread title on this page did not change.

Apologies, B'ham.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 02:37:00 PM by wesfau2 »
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Birmingham

Re: Worlds worst analogies
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2010, 02:44:07 PM »
You knew it was only a matter of time before this was made.

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wesfau2

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Re: Worlds worst analogies
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2010, 02:49:15 PM »
You knew it was only a matter of time before this was made.



Chortle.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
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And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Kaos

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2010, 03:19:22 PM »
Here's why I disagree...

In the band KISS (or Aerosmith, or Led Zeppelin, etc), the band members are the one's that control the music...they write the songs...they own what they are.  The members of KISS create the melody, the rhythm, the words, etc.  It's all from within them.

However, you actually can get quite a few "cover" musicians that can reproduce accurately the "notes", and therefore the song.  That "cover" guy could never have created it all though...he can only play it.  And as for playing it, some will lack the "touch" or the "flare" that another may have had, but either way, they can play the notes to some varying degree of success.

Likewise...I think the same thing is missing in your analogy....the coaches are KISS....not Ben Tate or Chris Todd.  

Ben Tate and Chris Todd are the equivalent of the "cover" guy...asked to step in and perform the song written by someone else.

Tate and Todd were the ones "plugged in" to perform the songs written by Malzahn.  Tate performed his role pretty well, hitting the notes, and even doing so with a "style" we all appreciated.  Todd, at times, played his notes perfectly, but more often than not he was obviously lacking the skill to play the rifts Malzahn had put in front of him.  

Next year Malzahn will plug in two new musicians to try to "cover" the songs he's written.  Will Newton look at the sheet music put before him and comfortably and creatively "play it" the way Malzahn intended it to be played?  Will Aycock or Dyer or whoever be able to play the same chords Tate played with as much success and flare as Tate did?

The point is, we aren't asking two new guys to be the next contributing members of Led Zeppelin.  Trying to replace Paige and Plant?  Yeah, monumental task.  Trying to replace members of ZoSo or Blackdog or any other cover band?  Somewhat of a task, sure, but not even remotely the same thing as replacing Paige, Plant, Bonham, etc.  

We are trying to find the next members of the cover band to see how close they can play what Jimmy Paige (Gus Malzahn) originally wrote.  

The good news for our offense is this...Todd was "wedding singer" quality at being a lead guitar cover man.  He could get through the song, but he offered nothing of his own style or flare, and wasn't even that good at simply reproducing the notes.  Replacing him with someone at least equally as mediocre shouldn't be too hard.

For Tate, he was much better.  He was successful at what he did, no question.  The good news?  We don't have just one or two new applicants for filling his vacated spot.  We have Aycock, Dyer, Smith, Fannin, etc.  And from the tapes we've heard and glimpses we've seen, we have reason to think at least one of those guys could adequately play Malzahn's music to the same degree Tate did.

To me, the hope I have that the offense will be at least as good as last year isn't blind hope.  It's founded on some pretty decent logic I think.  By the way, I know you're not saying the offense will NOT be as good..you're just saying why you're not assuming it.  I'm not assuming it either, but I am expecting it.


I disagree because Malzahn, etc. never perform the music.  At best Chiz, Malzahn and the rest would be like manager Doc McGhee, who told the band where to be and when, or Richie Wise or Neil Bogart or Bill Aucoin or Bob Ezrin or Kim Fowley or Michael Bolton or Stan Penridge or Stephen Coronel or Sean Delaney or Vini Poncia or Desmond Child or Howard Marks or Bob Kulick or Pepe Castro or Tony Powers or Anton Fig or Lou Reed or Adam Mitchell or Mikel Japp or Bryan Adams or Jim Vallance or Mitch Weissman or Mick Jagger or Howard Rice or Rod Swenson or Bruce Turgen or Diane Warren or Scott Van Zen or Bob Halligan or Phil Spector ... all of whom managed KISS or wrote/co-wrote songs performed on KISS albums.

While Gene and Paul did have control over the music and image, so too did Tate and Todd have some control over how the offense was managed.  Their abilities dictated what plays would be run. 

You're replacing the members of the band.  More interchangeable than the "founding members" of a band, yes, but you're still replacing the performers on whom the success of the songs played rested.  The 2009 Auburn Tigers were, for better or worse, Todd and Tate to a large degree.
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Kaos

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2010, 03:21:07 PM »
Not according to KISS



The sad thing is when I saw this during the Superbowl I actually thought to myself I wonder if K is pulling it right now.

No.  I had already seen it before it "debuted."  It was weak.  Typical Geneish shill, though. 

Anybody remember the Lifesavers ads he and Paul did? 
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jadennis

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2010, 04:41:57 PM »
I disagree because Malzahn, etc. never perform the music.  At best Chiz, Malzahn and the rest would be like manager Doc McGhee, who told the band where to be and when, or Richie Wise or Neil Bogart or Bill Aucoin or Bob Ezrin or Kim Fowley or Michael Bolton or Stan Penridge or Stephen Coronel or Sean Delaney or Vini Poncia or Desmond Child or Howard Marks or Bob Kulick or Pepe Castro or Tony Powers or Anton Fig or Lou Reed or Adam Mitchell or Mikel Japp or Bryan Adams or Jim Vallance or Mitch Weissman or Mick Jagger or Howard Rice or Rod Swenson or Bruce Turgen or Diane Warren or Scott Van Zen or Bob Halligan or Phil Spector ... all of whom managed KISS or wrote/co-wrote songs performed on KISS albums.

While Gene and Paul did have control over the music and image, so too did Tate and Todd have some control over how the offense was managed.  Their abilities dictated what plays would be run.  

You're replacing the members of the band.  More interchangeable than the "founding members" of a band, yes, but you're still replacing the performers on whom the success of the songs played rested.  The 2009 Auburn Tigers were, for better or worse, Todd and Tate to a large degree.

Then to me, the KISS analogy doesn't work.  It puts too much responsibility/credit on the two players.  Maybe Sensi's "producer" idea is closer.  A good producer can make the music and plug in a lot of different performers or voices.  There is a reason that certain programs with certain systems/coaches are able to keep producing year after year after year, almost regardless of who they plug in.

Occassionally someone special comes along and take it to another level.  An Adrian Peterson.  A Beanie Wells.  A Vince Young.  A Sam Bradford.  

Todd and Tate are none of those guys.

Even though Todd set some records this year, most Auburn fans that look at more than just numbers, would rank him near the bottom of all the Auburn QBs over the last 20 years.  I would take Brandon Cox, Jason Campbell, Patrick Nix, Ben Leard, Dameyune Craig, and Stan White over Chris Todd.  To think we can replace him with someone equally mediocre is to be expected.  To think someone will be a little better even has to have good odds.

For Tate, he's maybe a little harder to replace....maybe.  But again, look backwards at Auburn history.  We very rarely have trouble replacing productive running backs with other productive running backs.  Fannin is an experienced senior, that we know, when used as an actual running back, is productive.  We even know that Eric Smith can run the ball effectively.  That's two guys, and doesn't count Aycock (who the coaches love) or Dyer.  Again, there just isn't much reason to think that in this offense, Malzahn won't find a way to get 2,500+ yards rushing.  

We're not replacing Vince Young and Adrian Peterson.

For comparison's sake, consider this.

Oklahoma rushing yards per season:
2004 - 2709 (even with Peterson running 1900+ is less than Auburn ran last year)
2005 - 2126 (Peterson's sophomore year....injuries and a broken up o-line had an impact)
2006 - 2480 (year after Peterson leaves)
2007 - 2670
2008 - 2779 (two guys over 1000)
2009 - 1750 (same exact guys running as 08, but no Bradford and a new o-line)

Ohio State rushing yards per season:
2005 - 2360 (Antonio Pittman 1300+)
2006 - 2208 (Pittman 1200+)
2007 - 2552 (Wells 1600+)
2008 - 2502 (Wells 1200)
2009 - 2540 (no one over 1000)

To me, the historical precedent actually leans towards supporting the idea that replacing "average" (Todd) and "good" (Tate) players is not that difficult when all else remains relatively the same.  Meaning, if the offensive line is mostly back, the coaching staff is back, etc....then getting the next QB to be average and next running back to be good is not usually that big of a challenge.  

Look above.  The big changes didn't come because of a change in runner.  The biggest changes came in a change to offensive line more than anything.  Look at both programs from 08 to 09.  OSU lost a first round NFL draft pick and ran more this year with no one over 1000.  08 Oklahoma had two guys go over 1000, yet the same two guys ran for less than 800 each in 09.

We have our staff back.  We have our o-line back.  I expect similar running results.  
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 04:43:34 PM by jadennis »
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

Mr. Sensible

Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2010, 08:29:25 PM »
Bunch of deleted stuff. I expect similar running results.  

So you are saying Chris Todd and Ben Tate are more like Ace Frehley and Peter Criss than they are Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley, right?
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boartitz

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Re: When does Auburn play for a National Title?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2010, 08:43:25 PM »
Gus Malzahn is Gene Simmons....see my "too long" post above.
You don't want Gus to be the Gene Simmons from Arkansas. Trust me. Or trust google. He'll kill yore fambly.
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