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WOW!!! What a bowl game....Outback Bowl Record(s) were broken by both teams...

War Eagle!!!

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That was my position.  I wasn't worried at all.  I am now.

Causes?  Depth is certainly an issue.  The 4th quarter collapses this season were epic.

The schemes are to be blamed as well.

I'm admittedly confounded on the issue.

I must admit that I have to side some what with Prowler here. There are 2 reasons why I think we played the way we did.

1) We really do have very little depth on the defensive side of the ball. I am HOPING that we played very vanilla on defense for this reason. If you blitz every down, you are going to have to play man in the Secondary and even at the LB spot some. Playing man takes up a hell of a lot more energy than playing zone. In zone, you cover the man entering your zone. Man, you chase him all over the field. Not only that, but you have to think about the actual LB's that are blitzing. I would imagine it takes a whole hell of a lot more energy to blitz than play a base defense.

2) When you blitz, you are putting a lot of pressure on the secondary. We had a young secondary. We had true freshmen playing and freshman and sophs at every position except for McFadden. If you start blitzing, you have to have those guys man up. If one player gets beat, it's over. I don't think Roof and Chizik wanted to put our young secondary in that position. One missplay, it's 6. However, in zone, we may give up a ton of yardage, but we put the pressure on the offense to drive the entire length of the field. In my opinion, we were simply playing the odds.

Look, I am not totally sold on Roof (or Chiz for that matter), but Roof and Chizik didn't change their philosophy over night. Roof was known for a blitz/pressure intense defense. Why would he change that now? Because of Chizik? I don't think so. Chizik ran a lot of blitzes and put a lot of pressure on the offense too. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now knowing what they had to work with.
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jmar

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If you can't get pressure inside you have to create it, and we don't have enough depth to get too creative, especially against a team that is putting it up like N'western.
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Kaos

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I must admit that I have to side some what with Prowler here. There are 2 reasons why I think we played the way we did.

1) We really do have very little depth on the defensive side of the ball. I am HOPING that we played very vanilla on defense for this reason. If you blitz every down, you are going to have to play man in the Secondary and even at the LB spot some. Playing man takes up a hell of a lot more energy than playing zone. In zone, you cover the man entering your zone. Man, you chase him all over the field. Not only that, but you have to think about the actual LB's that are blitzing. I would imagine it takes a whole hell of a lot more energy to blitz than play a base defense.

2) When you blitz, you are putting a lot of pressure on the secondary. We had a young secondary. We had true freshmen playing and freshman and sophs at every position except for McFadden. If you start blitzing, you have to have those guys man up. If one player gets beat, it's over. I don't think Roof and Chizik wanted to put our young secondary in that position. One missplay, it's 6. However, in zone, we may give up a ton of yardage, but we put the pressure on the offense to drive the entire length of the field. In my opinion, we were simply playing the odds.

Look, I am not totally sold on Roof (or Chiz for that matter), but Roof and Chizik didn't change their philosophy over night. Roof was known for a blitz/pressure intense defense. Why would he change that now? Because of Chizik? I don't think so. Chizik ran a lot of blitzes and put a lot of pressure on the offense too. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now knowing what they had to work with.

All that is happy stuff. 

Fact remains that with essentially the same defensive personnel (granted we did lose Jerraud Powers, who appears to a much better player than he was ever allowed to become at Auburn) the defense fell completely the fuck apart. 

Some dropoff due to the loss of Powers, McNeill and Marks was to be expected.  But it should not have fallen this far this fast. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

War Eagle!!!

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All that is happy stuff. 

Fact remains that with essentially the same defensive personnel (granted we did lose Jerraud Powers, who appears to a much better player than he was ever allowed to become at Auburn) the defense fell completely the fuck apart. 

Some dropoff due to the loss of Powers, McNeill and Marks was to be expected.  But it should not have fallen this far this fast. 

Agreed. I just think there is more to it than the coaching...in my humble and could be wrong opinion...
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jmar

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Kaos

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Agreed. I just think there is more to it than the coaching...in my humble and could be wrong opinion...

Something is amiss -- and it starts with coaching.  May not end there, but it definitely starts there.    

Depth does not explain away piss poor tackling technique. It does not justify people being out of position consistently. It does not make sense of the fact that arguably the best linebacker on the team (Freeman) spends long stretches watching the game from his comfy seat on the sidelines.  

There was an attitude, a sense of tenacity that seemed to be missing. Swagger, if you will.

Why do you play nine yards off a receiver on third and four?  Why, when what you've been doing has been working all fucking day long, do you allow your asshole to tighten up and revert back to laying off and keeping everything underneath (the last Alabama drive).  Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'd like somebody to go back and watch to confirm.  On their last drive, we changed everything we'd been doing and consciously tried to keep everything in front of us.  That freed up Thuggio Jones on the short patterns -- because they played 12 yards off him.  Fuck... I could have run those routes.  A mountain gorilla could have.

Maybe that was all we could do.  But I think the first 53 minutes of the Alabama game showed we were capable of more.  
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

I don't claim to know where the issues are yet, but I DO know that when four players play all 110 plays on defense, that's a problem.
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jadennis

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Something is amiss -- and it starts with coaching.  May not end there, but it definitely starts there.    

Depth does not explain away piss poor tackling technique. It does not justify people being out of position consistently. It does not make sense of the fact that arguably the best linebacker on the team (Freeman) spends long stretches watching the game from his comfy seat on the sidelines.  

There was an attitude, a sense of tenacity that seemed to be missing. Swagger, if you will.

Why do you play nine yards off a receiver on third and four?  Why, when what you've been doing has been working all phuking day long, do you allow your butthole to tighten up and revert back to laying off and keeping everything underneath (the last Alabama drive).  Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I'd like somebody to go back and watch to confirm.  On their last drive, we changed everything we'd been doing and consciously tried to keep everything in front of us.  That freed up Thuggio Jones on the short patterns -- because they played 12 yards off him.  phuk... I could have run those routes.  A mountain gorilla could have.

Maybe that was all we could do.  But I think the first 53 minutes of the Alabama game showed we were capable of more.  

I think both sides have valid points, and for sanity's sake, I'm not going back to the last drive of the Alabama game.  Freeman can't cover people on passing downs, I think that's all there is to his lack of playing time.  Hopefully between now and next season he becomes at least adequate.

On the loss of personnel from last year to this year, I don't think that losing just those players is what caused the change in yards allowed.  I think losing those players (with virtually no one to replace them) made them play with a different philosophy, and that change in philosophy is what led to the enormous change in results.  

I think Chizik and Roof knew we would have two choices this year.  

Option one, play all out, aggressive, blitz, etc, and probably be pretty sound (good, but not great) defensively for about 4-5 games.  But then, the reality of the depth and youth would set in and we would probably be among the worst in the nation the last 7-8 games.  The fact is we had about 3 scholarship linebackers for most of the year (for a long stretch, we had three scholarship players, one a true freshman, and a walk-on as our top 4).

Stephens and Bynes played nearly every down of every game this year and should receive metals for their efforts.  So with option one, we would probably be around #20-30 in defense for the beginning of the year, then end the year at about #100+ and likely look really, really bad for the majority of the year, especially down the stretch against our tougher opponents...probably wouldn't have won the Ole Miss game, wouldn't have been in the Georgia game (which, in my opinion, is the main game we loss because of depth in the 4th quarter against the run), and wouldn't have been in the Alabama game.  

Option two was to tip-toe through each game, being as conservative as possible, while still trying to do the best with what we had.  This would probably result in being around the #60 or 70 defense, but it would also give us the best shot at being the #60 or #70 defense for the entire year, from game #1 to game #12, looking pretty good occassionally, and looking really bad occassionally.

It's easy to sit back where we are and look at what's happening and throw stones.  We didn't have to make the decisions to determine what was the best option to pick out of some pretty poopty options.  I'm going to trust that these guys knew better than any of us about what they had to pick from and that they made the best decision to help us stay competitive for the most games possible this year.

We finished #68 in total defense this year.  Had we not played our cards right from the beginning, we could easily have been Arkansas (#89), or Iowa State (#99), or Texas A&M (#105), or Florida State (#108).  But with no depth and a lot of youth, we managed to finish #68.

Here are some numbers for example.  In our last 6 games this year, we gave up 337 yards per game and 26.6 points.  That's not great, but it's actually 37 yards better than our season average and 1 point better than our season average.  Last year, in the last 6 games of the year, we gave up 386 yards per game and 24.8 points per game.  That was 69 yards worse than our season average last year and 7 points worse than the season average.

My point is that this year, we actually performed better down the stretch than we did last year.  Last year, we came out with it all on the table and threw everything at them in every game from day one.  But down the stretch, we were beat.  We were dead.  Partly because the offense was so lame (but check the number of plays our defense played last year vs this year, it's not much different), but mostly because we didn't have the depth to keep up what we were doing.

I'm not saying Chizik is a defensive genius, but I still believe he proved in the past that with good players and depth, he is smart enough and a good enough coach to lead a very good defense.  He's bought himself another few years to fill the roster and prove that true.  As Kaos hates to hear....we'll just have to wait and see.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 01:36:45 PM by jadennis »
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

Kaos

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I'm not saying Chizik is a defensive genius, but I still believe he proved in the past that with good players and depth, he is smart enough and a good enough coach to lead a very good defense.  

A monkey with good players and plenty of depth can look like a genius, too. 

The ones who make it work when those things are lacking are the ones who can really make a difference. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

AWK

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If there is not improvement next year, then we can say it is definitely coaching. 

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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

jadennis

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A monkey with good players and plenty of depth can look like a genius, too. 

The ones who make it work when those things are lacking are the ones who can really make a difference. 

Mickey Andrews is no monkey, and he has good players and managed to finish #108. 

Texas A&M's D-coordinator is ole Joe Kines.  He has decent players and has 3 times as many linebackers on scholarship...and he finished #105.

I'm still thinking that they actually did the best with what we had.  Was every decision the best?  No way, but no one pulls that off. 

Besides, it's looking like better players are coming in, so even if Chizik is a monkey, it looks like we'll be okay.
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

Kaos

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Mickey Andrews is no monkey, and he has good players and managed to finish #108. 

Texas A&M's D-coordinator is ole Joe Kines.  He has decent players and has 3 times as many linebackers on scholarship...and he finished #105.

I'm still thinking that they actually did the best with what we had.  Was every decision the best?  No way, but no one pulls that off. 

Besides, it's looking like better players are coming in, so even if Chizik is a monkey, it looks like we'll be okay.

Mickey Andrews and Joe Kines aspire to be monkeys.
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

Token

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Mickey Andrews and Joe Kines aspire to be monkeys.

Retired, out of their prime, monkeys.
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jadennis

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Mickey Andrews and Joe Kines aspire to be monkeys.

You're right, Florida State's defense has been their weak link the last 25 years.  :blink:
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

jadennis

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Retired, out of their prime, monkeys.

FSU was 15th in total defense just last year.

Kines had Alabama at #23 in just 2006. 

They are old, they are retired, but they aren't and never have been monkeys.

Besides, saying a monkey can coach great players addresses pretty much 1% of what my post was about.  I still say, as hard as it was to watch sometimes this year, I think they actually made decisions that gave us the best chance to win the most games.
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

Kaos

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They are old, they are retired, but they aren't and never have been monkeys.






The only difference is the shirt and hat.
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

jadennis

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 :rofl:   :clap: 
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"To me Auburn is not in Auburn, Alabama. Auburn is the people who care about Auburn, the people who love Auburn. Wherever they are, that’s Auburn, Auburn is in your heart. You play for it."

- Reggie Torbor

Saniflush

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The only difference is the shirt and hat.

I would have gone with this one myself.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."