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Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II

Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2009, 01:22:14 PM »

Regardless of how chizik performs the hire will always be retarded.

This is why you can't be taken seriously when it comes to this subject.  

You're the one that made the point about all the Thorpe Award winners he has coached, further proving his pedigree. But the fact that he probably didn't actually coach them, has nothing to do with anything? Gotcha.

You missed the point of why I posted that.  You clutch to it, and obviously you're still not getting why it was posted as part of the total point, not the sole focus of it.  Not my problem.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 01:23:28 PM by AuburnChopper2.0 »
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2009, 01:29:22 PM »
This is why you can't be taken seriously when it comes to this subject.  

You missed the point of why I posted that.  You clutch to it, and obviously you're still not getting why it was posted as part of the total point, not the sole focus of it.  Not my problem.
Please, enlighten me. Its a point until someone disproves it, then it never really mattered. Funny.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2009, 01:45:58 PM »
You were making your usually snarky retort to Wes about his Dungy/ Kiffen assertion.

Chizik was only successful at Texas because of Mack Brown, Vince Young, and Colt McCoy. See how easy that is?


He was pretty successful at Auburn also...  just sayin'.  His Thorpe Award winners appreciate his success as well...

My point was that he showed he wasn't just successful under Mack Brown, but at Auburn.  His defenses were successful at multiple locations, not just Mack Brown.  They were also well above average. 

He also produced award winning defensive players.  Now, if you want to believe that Chizik had nothing to do with Aaron Ross, or Michael Huff and it was an incredible coincidence that Chizik was the DC at the time of their awards, then fine.  Just a word of note though, even though the coach you keep bringing up coached the DB's directly, that coach worked directly UNDER Chizik.  Keep flapping your gums though as if Chizik's job was totally unrelated.

You're the one that wants to go off on this reply fest trying to say that I'm basing Chizik's success as a DC, because he had good players.  I didn't do that.  You did.

I then, made it clear that it was a moot point towards the total arguement, because it is.  I've told you, and I'm telling you this last time.... who fucking cares.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2009, 02:25:22 PM »
Fuck this...

Common ground :

1) Auburn is not Ames. Stupid point but all agree.

2) Chizik did not have the talent at Ames he should at Auburn.

3) Auburn plays a significantly tougher schedule than Iowa State.

4) Whatever Chizik did at Iowa State did not work. The team had it's two worst consecutive seasons in a decade. The blueprint failed.

5) Some argue that Chizik established himself as a failure for his inability to a least maintain the moderate level of consistent success attained under its previous coach

6) Others argue that no one can win at ISU so his performance there is irrelevant.

I laugh at #6.  My point is, was and will ALWAYS be that a program of our stature should not be casting around on refuse heaps and hiring people to run a multi million enterprise on a hunch and a handful of hope.

Regardless of how chizik performs the hire will always be retarded.

Good players make decent coaches good. Great coaches make decent players better. Show me one single solitary area where Chizik left ISU better than he found it.

I hope he learned from that debacle and will be a better coach as a result. But his "I have ne'er failed" and "blueprint" comments do not inspire confidence.  

This is what I agree with...

The hire was dumb. DUMB. But Chizik is the coach that was given the opprtunity. What he does with this GIFT of an opportunity is up to him. If he bombs, it was a horrible hire. If he is sucessful, it was still a horrible hire, but Auburn got lucky.

Either way, you fuckers have argued the exact same god damned thing for over 8 months now...

Let's just all agree that we hope the douche of an AD we have got lucky and this thing turns out good. Because if it doesn't, I am with Kaos, this could set us back a long long way. Especially with the shape of the program that TT apparently left this thing in.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2009, 04:37:00 PM »
Chopper says you can't be taken seriously.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2009, 05:30:51 PM »
This is what I agree with...

The hire was dumb. DUMB. But Chizik is the coach that was given the opprtunity. What he does with this GIFT of an opportunity is up to him. If he bombs, it was a horrible hire. If he is sucessful, it was still a horrible hire, but Auburn got lucky.

Either way, you fuckers have argued the exact same god damned thing for over 8 months now...

Let's just all agree that we hope the douche of an AD we have got lucky and this thing turns out good. Because if it doesn't, I am with Kaos, this could set us back a long long way. Especially with the shape of the program that TT apparently left this thing in.
Agree
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2009, 06:22:31 PM »
Chizik was only successful at Texas because of Mack Brown, Vince Young, and Colt McCoy. See how easy that is?

Shula's offense finished no higher than 22nd out of 32 teams during his tenure.

Chizik's product was a bit more impressive, contributing  much more to the success of TX.

Also, I think that RWS has a point regarding Chizik's Thorpe Award winners and his lack of DB coaching credit at TX.   I find it interesting, though, that two of Akina's winners got the nod during Chizik's only two years in Austin....and fifteen years after Akina's only other Thorpe winner.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 06:23:13 PM by wesfau2 »
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2009, 06:36:07 PM »
Shula's offense finished no higher than 22nd out of 32 teams during his tenure.

Chizik's product was a bit more impressive, contributing  much more to the success of TX.

Also, I think that RWS has a point regarding Chizik's Thorpe Award winners and his lack of DB coaching credit at TX.   I find it interesting, though, that two of Akina's winners got the nod during Chizik's only two years in Austin....and fifteen years after Akina's only other Thorpe winner.


It's all pure coincidence Wes.  Period.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #108 on: August 28, 2009, 07:07:08 AM »


Chizik's product was a bit more impressive, contributing  much more to the success of TX.


I think we've already established that there was very little change in the defenses at both Auburn and Texas before Chizik and after Chizik. 

He came into both places -- schools flush with talent he did not recruit -- and maintained. 

Auburn's defense in 2004 was awesome.  It was as good or better than that idiotic 1992 defense we've heard so much about at Alabama.  Man for man, I think it was better.  How many of those players are now in the NFL?  Five or six? Maybe more?

But tell me.  Who was the defensive coordinator for Alabama in 1992?  Which college or NFL team is he coaching today?   He was a college coach briefly if that helps you out any. 
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2009, 08:38:09 AM »
But tell me.  Who was the defensive coordinator for Alabama in 1992?  Which college or NFL team is he coaching today?   He was a college coach briefly if that helps you out any. 
Who is Bill Oliver. The college of fishing in a lake.

I'll take Chizik's Record at Ames for $1000... Alex
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 08:39:23 AM by Godfather »
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #110 on: August 28, 2009, 08:49:59 AM »
Who is Bill Oliver. The college of fishing in a lake.

I'll take Chizik's Record at Ames for $1000... Alex

Very good. 

He coached some award winners.  Was a hell of a DC from what I've heard.   

In the category of "Chizik's Record at Ames"  Which team did ISU beat to earn Gene Chizik's first road win as head coach?
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #111 on: August 28, 2009, 08:51:13 AM »
I think we've already established that there was very little change in the defenses at both Auburn and Texas before Chizik and after Chizik. 

He came into both places -- schools flush with talent he did not recruit -- and maintained. 

Auburn's defense in 2004 was awesome.  It was as good or better than that idiotic 1992 defense we've heard so much about at Alabama.  Man for man, I think it was better.  How many of those players are now in the NFL?  Five or six? Maybe more?

But tell me.  Who was the defensive coordinator for Alabama in 1992?  Which college or NFL team is he coaching today?   He was a college coach briefly if that helps you out any. 

This is fair, and I even agree to an extent.  However, Wes's post was written in direct response to a comparison made to Mike Shula from RWS.  Would you agree that Chizik's performance as Wes described it, is a fair response to Mike Shula's career at Tampa Bay?

I can't help but believe that you temper Chizik's success at Auburn, and Texas in an effort to solidify your position overall that he's not HC material.  I'm not saying he's a world beater, but I find it hard to believe that Gene Chizik just rode an incredible wave of circumstance and talent to where he is at this point alone.  He could have, certainly.  I just don't believe that until I see what results he produces.  He may very well be Auburn's anti-Christ.  I just don't believe there's ANY way of knowing that yet.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #112 on: August 28, 2009, 08:59:10 AM »

But tell me.  Who was the defensive coordinator for Alabama in 1992?  Which college or NFL team is he coaching today?   He was a college coach briefly if that helps you out any. 

One year vs. three years.

Chizik performed on a consistent basis.

Note: at this point I'm just kicking the can back at you.  I was just putting to bed RWS's silly Shula comparisons.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #113 on: August 28, 2009, 09:04:50 AM »
This is fair, and I even agree to an extent.  However, Wes's post was written in direct response to a comparison made to Mike Shula from RWS.  Would you agree that Chizik's performance as Wes described it, is a fair response to Mike Shula's career at Tampa Bay?

I can't help but believe that you temper Chizik's success at Auburn, and Texas in an effort to solidify your position overall that he's not HC material.  I'm not saying he's a world beater, but I find it hard to believe that Gene Chizik just rode an incredible wave of circumstance and talent to where he is at this point alone.  He could have, certainly.  I just don't believe that until I see what results he produces.  He may very well be Auburn's anti-Christ.  I just don't believe there's ANY way of knowing that yet.

I don't care about Mike Shula one way or another.  What he did or didn't do has no bearing on my thinking toward Chizik at all.  There is the obvious similarity of the confused deer in the headlights look they both had while on the sidelines.  I don't think I've ever seen two people wear dumber expressions, but that's as far as that goes.  

What Chizik did as a defensive coordinator has no bearing on his ability to be a head coach.  I'd be happy to have him back as DC (except for the fact that he took shots at Auburn when he left and should NEVER be allowed to set foot on Jordan Hare turf again except as an enemy, that I just can't get past).

That is my point. In his one effort to BE a head coach he was an abject failure.  You can skew the numbers any way you want, but the fact is that McCarney had the program on as solid a footing as it had ever been.  Chizik booted it back to the stone age and did so with shocking swiftness.

Some great assistants turn into great head coaches.  Mark Richt, for one.  Some don't. Sylvester Croom, Mike Shula, Mike DuBose, Ron Zook, etc.

Using his resume as DC and ignoring his freakishly bad experience as HC doesn't make logical sense to me. I could see a Tulane or Southern Miss or UAB taking a chance on a guy like that and hoping he would improve.  But we are Auburn.  Bringing him in, particularly to a league that boasts Meyer, Richt, Saban, Nutt, Petrino, Johnson, Brooks, Spurrier and Miles was offensive. It was the rinkiest of dink.  No palatable justification was ever offered by the administration. No reasonable explanation was given. Jay Jacobs tied our football future to his "hunch."  That's not good enough for me. That's why I say the hire will always be a bad one.  

Sometimes you make a mistake and it turns out okay for you.  Maybe you have a one-night stand with a fat, ugly chick and get her pregnant.  Her dad forces you to get married.  Later on she loses weight, has plastic surgery and ends up looking pretty hot.  Your kid turns out okay.  She can cook a little.  So it turns out fine.  But crawling in bed with the hippo was STILL a mistake.  
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #114 on: August 28, 2009, 09:07:06 AM »
One year vs. three years.

Chizik performed on a consistent basis.

Note: at this point I'm just kicking the can back at you.  I was just putting to bed RWS's silly Shula comparisons.

You're saying Bill Oliver didn't perform on a consistent basis? 

I have to disagree there.  He did so for far longer than Chizik has. 

Why isn't Brother Bill the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys AND the Green Bay Packers, simultaneously.  He was a damn good DC. 

So was Wayne Hall.  Where'd he end up being head coach?
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #115 on: August 28, 2009, 09:35:23 AM »
You're saying Bill Oliver didn't perform on a consistent basis? 

I have to disagree there.  He did so for far longer than Chizik has. 


You only referenced '92.  Thus, my response.

Honest question: does Oliver sport the same awards/achievements on his resume as Chizik? 
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #116 on: August 28, 2009, 09:48:08 AM »
Your also forgetting that Oliver chose to retire.  Its not like after getting snubbed at Auburn he didn't have other offers.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #117 on: August 28, 2009, 09:53:39 AM »
You only referenced '92.  Thus, my response.

Honest question: does Oliver sport the same awards/achievements on his resume as Chizik? 

He only coached the best defense, ever, in the history of college football.  All defenses, past, present and future must be measured against it.  No offense ever scored against it.  In fact, it scored most of the points for its own team.  It was so awesome, Kool Aid named a flavor after it.  Michael Jackson wrote a song about it, but it was so touching it made him cry and he could never manage to perform it, thus it has never been heard.  That defense was so awesome that Hitler came back from the grave and surrendered to it so he could save a little dignity. It was so awesome the government tried to purchase it to replace the Hoover Dam.  The Dam plan fell through, though.

Yeah.  He coached that.  I don't have any idea about the awards.

I'm going to do an analysis of that damn team.  That's my mission for the next few days.  It was not that fucking good and I'm going to prove it.  

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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #118 on: August 28, 2009, 09:55:45 AM »
Your also forgetting that Oliver chose to retire.  Its not like after getting snubbed at Auburn he didn't have other offers.

Oliver would have sucked a goat's dick at the 50 yard line during halftime of the SuperBowl if somebody would have given him a coaching position. 

He didn't fucking retire.  He was let go when Tuberville was hired and despite constant campaigning on his part was never even fucking interviewed for another job. 

Most of that was because he was known to be a rancorous back-stabbing bitch and earned that reputation deservedly.
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Re: Kickin' it with Coach Chizik....Part II
« Reply #119 on: August 28, 2009, 09:56:49 AM »
I'm going to do an analysis of that damn team.  That's my mission for the next few days.  It was not that fucking good and I'm going to prove it.  



It's times like this that I can love you again.
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