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Sterling

Saniflush

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2014, 02:32:13 PM »
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Kaos

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2014, 02:46:50 PM »
I'm still at a loss as to what he did wrong other than hold an unpopular opinion.

Opinions that were once wildly unpopular:

Women should vote.
Slaves should be freed.

The key to a free society is allowing true freedom of expression, even when you find the expression of an opinion to be repugnant. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

AUChizad

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dallaswareagle

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2014, 02:49:39 PM »
I'm still at a loss as to what he did wrong other than hold an unpopular opinion.

Opinions that were once wildly unpopular:

Women should vote.
Slaves should be freed.

The key to a free society is allowing true freedom of expression, even when you find the expression of an opinion to be repugnant.


Todays color schemes are different.
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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'

Re: Sterling
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2014, 03:42:54 PM »
I'm still at a loss as to what he did wrong other than hold an unpopular opinion.

Opinions that were once wildly unpopular:

Women should vote.
Slaves should be freed.

The key to a free society is allowing true freedom of expression, even when you find the expression of an opinion to be repugnant.

He held an opinion that a people group should be subjugated to oppression based on arbitrary reasons.  And due to his position of power, notoriety and influence, it was necessary to remove him from the NBA in order to ensure its future success.  Also, media and citizens are free to voice their displeasure of someone's opinion in a manner that persuades others to join along with them. 

Notice how the unpopular opinions that are in desperate need of enlightenment stem from some kind of oppression.  Also notice how the progressives who are seeking to end those unpopular opinions are striving to ensure equal freedom for every citizen.
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Kaos

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2014, 03:50:12 PM »
He held an opinion that a people group should be subjugated to oppression based on arbitrary reasons.  And due to his position of power, notoriety and influence, it was necessary to remove him from the NBA in order to ensure its future success.  Also, media and citizens are free to voice their displeasure of someone's opinion in a manner that persuades others to join along with them. 

Notice how the unpopular opinions that are in desperate need of enlightenment stem from some kind of oppression.  Also notice how the progressives who are seeking to end those unpopular opinions are striving to ensure equal freedom for every citizen.

Dumbest thing I've ever seen you write. 

Wait until the thought police disagree with you and take away your possessions as punishment.  That day is coming. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

Re: Sterling
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2014, 03:59:11 PM »
Dumbest thing I've ever seen you write. 

Wait until the thought police disagree with you and take away your possessions as punishment.  That day is coming.

If I was still a classroom teacher and was recorded giving a racist opinion even in the privacy of my own home, I would expect to be removed from my position. 

If my son has a Kindergarten teacher who writes racist editorials for the local newspaper, I would want my son removed from that classroom and would request that teacher be fired or placed on leave. 

If a business owner espoused bigoted ideas about how to annihilate homosexuals from society, I would not shop at that business.

If a gas station attendant went on a rant inside of a car 5000 miles away from his gas station about how white people are lesser humans than others and I found out about it, I would cease getting gas from that station.

If a bus driver posted misogynistic tweets on Twitter, I would refuse to ride any bus for that company until he was removed.

They have the right to express themselves at any time they want and however they want and to whom they want and wherever they want.  I too have the right to express myself by choosing to not do business with such people.  If those companies value my consumption of their products, they will remove those people from those positions.  If they value their employee over me, then they'll do without my business.

The NBA values its consumers over Donald Sterling.  As a non-government employee, they had every right to remove Sterling from their organization. 

EDIT - Look, I know this contradicts what I put in the Clay Travis post.  I do think it's dangerous how quick and severe we are as a society to destroy instead of reason with people of differing and wrong opinions.  However, I also understand that private organizations and people have a right to boycott or protest against someone based on their private beliefs.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 04:17:03 PM by Townhallsavoy »
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

WiregrassTiger

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2014, 04:20:32 PM »
If I was still a classroom teacher and was recorded giving a racist opinion even in the privacy of my own home, I would expect to be removed from my position. 

If my son has a Kindergarten teacher who writes racist editorials for the local newspaper, I would want my son removed from that classroom and would request that teacher be fired or placed on leave. 

If a business owner espoused bigoted ideas about how to annihilate homosexuals from society, I would not shop at that business.

If a gas station attendant went on a rant inside of a car 5000 miles away from his gas station about how white people are lesser humans than others and I found out about it, I would cease getting gas from that station.

If a bus driver posted misogynistic tweets on Twitter, I would refuse to ride any bus for that company until he was removed.

They have the right to express themselves at any time they want and however they want and to whom they want and wherever they want.  I too have the right to express myself by choosing to not do business with such people.  If those companies value my consumption of their products, they will remove those people from those positions.  If they value their employee over me, then they'll do without my business.

The NBA values its consumers over Donald Sterling.  As a non-government employee, they had every right to remove Sterling from their organization. 

EDIT - Look, I know this contradicts what I put in the Clay Travis post.  I do think it's dangerous how quick and severe we are as a society to destroy instead of reason with people of differing and wrong opinions.  However, I also understand that private organizations and people have a right to boycott or protest against someone based on their private beliefs.
This makes me wonder how you find anything about the x appealing.
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Kaos

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2014, 05:10:20 PM »
If I was still a classroom teacher and was recorded giving a racist opinion even in the privacy of my own home, I would expect to be removed from my position. 

There's no reason you should be, any more than someone who opines that muslims aren't terrorists or that global warming is real should be removed.  You have a right to hold and express your opinion, particularly in private.  This is dangerous, dangerous ground.

If my son has a Kindergarten teacher who writes racist editorials for the local newspaper, I would want my son removed from that classroom and would request that teacher be fired or placed on leave. 

And how is this different from rational, reasonable people who find homosexuality to be an abomination asking that schools not employ homosexuals as teachers?  Dangerous ground. 

If a business owner espoused bigoted ideas about how to annihilate homosexuals from society, I would not shop at that business.


Your choice.  Nobody begrudges you that.  Free market takes care of things on its own.  This is different from imposing sanctions.

If a gas station attendant went on a rant inside of a car 5000 miles away from his gas station about how white people are lesser humans than others and I found out about it, I would cease getting gas from that station.


Again, your choice.  But the government shouldn't take his station away, force him to sell it, imprison him or take any action whatsoever.   Shop where you choose, I'm sure the gas station owner won't care because if he offers the best price and service, nobody else is going to care either. 

If a bus driver posted misogynistic tweets on Twitter, I would refuse to ride any bus for that company until he was removed.


Good for you.  I personally could give a damn what the bus driver thinks in his private life so long as he is competent and courteous. 

They have the right to express themselves at any time they want and however they want and to whom they want and wherever they want.  I too have the right to express myself by choosing to not do business with such people.  If those companies value my consumption of their products, they will remove those people from those positions.  If they value their employee over me, then they'll do without my business.

Most of these companies couldn't afford to get their goods and services to you.  Small business can't afford cranes to reach horses of the height you apparently ride. 

How you choose to react to a person's beliefs is of no consequence whatsoever.  If you chose not to watch the Clippers or if you decided not to attend their games, that is a perfectly acceptable response. 

Demanding that he be sanctioned, that his livelihood be stripped away, that he incur financial and judicial penalties for his opinion is where the line gets wonky.  It's a dangerous, slippery slope.  What happens, THS when the mob decides that saying "War Eagle" is offensive to people who like to copulate with birds?  Or that it is an inflammatory and racist statement since legend ties it to a Civil War veteran?  What happens when the psycho mob declares that you can't use that cheer or you'll be fired from your job? 

What happens when the school says you can't ever have said the dreaded "n-word" in your life to be employed, but male teachers can come dressed as women because they have "rights" and women teachers can have sex changes during the year, and muslim teachers can come to class in burkas and explain the necessity of following Muhammed to your daughters, but the teacher across the hall can't wear a cross pin? 
 
You going to be okay with that?  Because that's where you're headed.

The NBA values its consumers over Donald Sterling.  As a non-government employee, they had every right to remove Sterling from their organization. 


When you allow any agency, private or public, to sanction someone for comments made in the privacy of their own home, comments which were illegally recorded and not approved for release you've crossed lines that shouldn't be crossed. 

God help me if I were held accountable for everything I've ever said in anger or frustration because some skank was recording me.   God help all of us.  None of us would be employable. 


EDIT - Look, I know this contradicts what I put in the Clay Travis post.  I do think it's dangerous how quick and severe we are as a society to destroy instead of reason with people of differing and wrong opinions.  However, I also understand that private organizations and people have a right to boycott or protest against someone based on their private beliefs.

Boycott all you want.  Protest if that gives you a chubby. That's your choice.  But punish?  Dangerous ground. 

Besides, who determines which opinions are "right" and which are "wrong"?  That's another slippery slope.  As a free society we MUST be able to engage in legitimate debate. We MUST have opinions that differ.  Whenever the mob simply shouts down anyone who disagrees, we are no longer free. 
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wesfau2

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2014, 05:49:53 PM »
K, you're being way reactionary on this.  There was (predictable) public outrage over his obviously racist comments.

He is a member of a very private (the NBA constitution is not a public document, though parts have been leaked) club that makes its own rules.  Sterling's comments injured the reputation of his club...his membership benefits are at risk at the discretion of his club-mates.

There is no government taking or infringement of his rights.  He can be a crazy racist and espouse his views in a public forum...but he is not immune from the consequences of airing his opinions.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Kaos

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2014, 06:15:06 PM »
K, you're being way reactionary on this.  There was (predictable) public outrage over his obviously racist comments.

He is a member of a very private (the NBA constitution is not a public document, though parts have been leaked) club that makes its own rules.  Sterling's comments injured the reputation of his club...his membership benefits are at risk at the discretion of his club-mates.

There is no government taking or infringement of his rights.  He can be a crazy racist and espouse his views in a public forum...but he is not immune from the consequences of airing his opinions.

It's just another step down a dangerous path in my opinion. 

Paula Deen once said the "n-word" and has a southern accent.  CRUCIFY!!  Take away her career. 

Riley Cooper says something that can be interpreted as 'racist.'  CRUCIFY!! Send him to sensitivity training, fine him, run him out of the NFL!

Miami Dolphins player is offended by Michael Buttmunch Sam's performance after being picked at the ass end of the draft and has the temerity to offer his opinion.  (And if people are being honest it's a far more prevalent opinion than that of approval, but nobody's gonna be honest these days).  CRUCIFY!!! Suspend him! Ban him from the league! Fine him! Send him for retraining. 

Donald Sterling says something in the privacy of his own home.  The guy is 80 for God's sake.  When he was 30, the Civil Rights movement hadn't happened.  He was nearly 40 when USC finally let a black guy play on their team.  His opinions and values were shaped in an entirely different time.  If my grandmother were alive today I doubt she'd be very happy about the proliferation of black culture, she wouldn't care for the blatant promiscuity and lack of consequences for Magic, why *gasp* she might have even used the n-word in her life!! Oh no!!  CRUCIFY THEM!! CRUCIFY THEM ALL!!  BURN THE WITCH AT THE STAKE!!! 

You don't see the problem here?  The guy was in his own home talking to a member of his family and expressing an opinion he held privately.  He didn't act on that opinion in a public way, he didn't try to enslave or abuse his players, he didn't do anything untoward in a public manner at all.  They're sanctioning him for an opinion he never intended to be made public. 

Again, God help me if the thoughts that rattle around in my head were ever published for public consumption and I was made to suffer for every bad thing I've ever thought.  God help you all. 
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wesfau2

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Re: Sterling
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2014, 09:29:44 PM »
It's just another step down a dangerous path in my opinion. 

Paula Deen once said the "n-word" and has a southern accent.  CRUCIFY!!  Take away her career. 

Riley Cooper says something that can be interpreted as 'racist.'  CRUCIFY!! Send him to sensitivity training, fine him, run him out of the NFL!

Miami Dolphins player is offended by Michael Buttmunch Sam's performance after being picked at the ass end of the draft and has the temerity to offer his opinion.  (And if people are being honest it's a far more prevalent opinion than that of approval, but nobody's gonna be honest these days).  CRUCIFY!!! Suspend him! Ban him from the league! Fine him! Send him for retraining. 

Donald Sterling says something in the privacy of his own home.  The guy is 80 for God's sake.  When he was 30, the Civil Rights movement hadn't happened.  He was nearly 40 when USC finally let a black guy play on their team.  His opinions and values were shaped in an entirely different time.  If my grandmother were alive today I doubt she'd be very happy about the proliferation of black culture, she wouldn't care for the blatant promiscuity and lack of consequences for Magic, why *gasp* she might have even used the n-word in her life!! Oh no!!  CRUCIFY THEM!! CRUCIFY THEM ALL!!  BURN THE WITCH AT THE STAKE!!! 

You don't see the problem here?  The guy was in his own home talking to a member of his family and expressing an opinion he held privately.  He didn't act on that opinion in a public way, he didn't try to enslave or abuse his players, he didn't do anything untoward in a public manner at all.  They're sanctioning him for an opinion he never intended to be made public. 

Again, God help me if the thoughts that rattle around in my head were ever published for public consumption and I was made to suffer for every bad thing I've ever thought.  God help you all.

Sure...if you want to discuss the implications of his side-piece secretly recording his private conversations (though he pretty much aired it all himself with Anderson Cooper) then we're having a different discussion.

But once the toothpaste is out of the tube, then his business partners (with ZERO input/influence from the government) are completely within their bounds to sanction him within the context of their negotiated agreement.

If you had a business partner who was running a KKK website off of one of your servers, would you feel justified in yanking his access and disassociating him from your business?

Also...this bears refutation:

Quote
Riley Cooper says something that can be interpreted as 'racist.'

Riley said: I will fight every black in here.

That could be "interpreted as rascist"?  Really?

And this guy wasn't espousing his opinion in his own home:

Quote
Miami Dolphins player is offended by Michael Buttmunch Sam's performance after being picked at the ass end of the draft and has the temerity to offer his opinion
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 09:35:48 PM by wesfau2 »
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.