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Screw it, I give up

AWK

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Screw it, I give up
« on: February 20, 2014, 05:42:31 PM »
This State is retarded...

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20140220/news/140229984

Quote
Alabama House of Representatives approves bill aimed at allowing Ten Commandments display in schools, state buildings



MONTGOMERY (AP) — The Alabama House of Representatives has approved a bill aimed at allowing the Ten Commandments to be displayed in public schools and state buildings.

Representatives voted 77-19 Thursday for the proposed constitutional amendment that would also have to be approved by voters.

Valley Republican Rep. DuWayne Bridges says Alabama should celebrate the country's religious roots. He predicted that Alabamians would overwhelmingly approve the measure.

The legislation specifies that the display would have to be intermingled with other historical documents.

Opposed lawmakers say the proposal is unconstitutional and that lawmakers were setting the state up for a lawsuit.

Some lawmakers tried unsuccessfully to amend the bill, suggesting that Bible verses or a copy of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech should be included in the display.

It's not like we haven't been through this 100000000000 times...
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

WiregrassTiger

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 05:52:37 PM »
Yes but the 100000000001th time is a charm.
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Kaos

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 06:10:16 PM »
Don't see a problem here. 

You want the city to take down Christmas decorations and cancel the Easter parade, too?
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AWK

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 06:21:54 PM »
Don't see a problem here. 

You want the city to take down Christmas decorations and cancel the Easter parade, too?
Dear Mr. I like things the Old Way,

  The Constitution and Bill of Rights of the United States are pretty old school...and to my knowledge, still govern this country.

Signed,

tRoy Moore
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 06:23:58 PM by AWK »
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

AWK

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 09:20:31 PM »
http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/02/things_i_learned_during_the_al.html#incart_2box

Quote
Should Alabamians be able to hang the Ten Commandments in public buildings, including schools and courthouses?

Rep. DuWayne Bridges, R-Valley, wants to give Alabamians an opportunity to decide at the ballot box, and this week he again introduced a bill to send an amendment of the Alabama Constitution to voters.

The debate over the bill was, to say the least, as interesting as it was meandering.

Here are a few things I learned about morality and Biblical history while listening to the debate.

- School shootings, patricide and matricide are due to the Ten Commandments not being displayed in schools and other government buildings. – Rep. Bridges.

- "Jesus himself said feed those who are hungry, clothe those who are nekkid." – Rep. Darrio Melton, D-Selma.

- People who believe in Mohammed practice "Muslimism." – Rep. James Buskey, D-Mobile.
"Jesus himself said feed those who are hungry, clothe those who are nekkid." – Rep. Darrio Melton.

- If you proposed an amendment to the Alabama Constitution about the Ten Commandments, Rep. Alvin Holmes, D-Montgomery, will give you a quiz in which he repeatedly refers to them as the "10th Amendment."

- The 10th Amendment was adopted before the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea because Moses didn't get to cross the Red Sea. – Rep. Bridges responding to a question from Rep. Holmes.

- "Love thy neighbor" is one of the Ten Commandments. – Rep. Bridges, responding to a question from Rep. Holmes.

- "Love thy neighbor" is not one of the Ten Commandments but has something to do with coveting. – Rep. Bridges correcting himself a few minutes later.

- Adultery "means having sex with someone you hadn't got any business having sex with." – Rep. Holmes.

- Rep. Alvin Holmes is the only member of the Alabama House who has abided by all the Ten Commandments. – Rep. Holmes

- "Two thousand fourteen years ago, and he was 33 before that." – Rep. Bridges on when Jesus was born.

- The annotation "AD" stands for "after death," (not "Anno Domini"). – Rep. Bridges.

- Before they bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church, "Bull Connor and them" had a prayer. – Rep. Holmes.

- Bull Connor and the others who bombed the church were never arrested and now they're in hell. – Rep. Holmes.

- Alabama State University's baseball team beat Auburn's baseball team in a practice game last night. – Rep. John Knight, D-Montgomery.

- A lot of the Auburn baseball players must have had the flu. – House Speaker Mike Hubbard, R-Auburn.

- This country was founded on godly principles and other people who come here from other places aren't going to change that. – Rep. Bridges.

- "Fifty two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were active members in orthodox churches in the colonies." – Rep. Bridges.

- "Moses and the law, they had their day, but this is a new day and it is brought on by the Lord Jesus Christ. – Rep. George Bandy, D-Opelika.

- Rep. John Rogers would rather adjourn for lunch than finish this debate now. – Rep. John Rogers

- Rep. Bridges has a bad memory and that's why God put the Ten Commandments in the Bible twice. – Rep. Bridges.

- Rep. Bridges didn't include John 3:16 in the amendment because not everybody believes in Jesus Christ. – Rep. Bridges, opposing an amendment from Rep. Bandy to add John 3:16 to the bill.

- If pressed, the Alabama Legislature will table John 3:16 by a vote of 54-32.

- Voting for the Ten Commandments puts souls in peril because "we are voting against what can save the soul of a believer." – Rep. Bandy.

- The Ten Commandments were presented by Moses, an African who was born and lived in Africa and wasn't allowed in the Promised Land. – Rep. Bandy.

- This issue has been tested by the courts numerous times and it has always ended the same way. – Rep. Chris England, D-Tuscaloosa.

- Rep. England is way too knowledgeable, intelligent and well-spoken to serve in the Alabama Legislature. – Me.

- The Alabama House will debate the same bill it has passed before for two hours before approving it by a 77-19 vote.

 :facepalm:
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 09:25:55 PM »
Yeah, well, I bet those guys know how to do math with a slide rule.
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Vandy Vol

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 09:48:52 PM »
Jim Dunaway tweeted Chris England and thanked him for "fighting at work today," and others thanked him for being the voice of reason.

Of course, he's a Democrat, so anything he says is patently wrong...even if he is a Methodist.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

CCTAU

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 12:39:08 AM »
You edmacated peoples that don't like this, vote against it.

Last I checked, the people of each state should get to vote on things they take issue with.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Vandy Vol

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 12:42:48 AM »
You edmacated peoples that don't like this, vote against it.

Last I checked, the people of each state should get to vote on things they take issue with.

You might want to check again.  Unconstitutional laws are still unconstitutional regardless of who puts them in place.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

CCTAU

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 12:46:13 AM »
You might want to check again.  Unconstitutional laws are still unconstitutional regardless of who puts them in place.

Things are only unconstitutional depending on how you word it.

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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Vandy Vol

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 12:50:58 AM »
Things are only unconstitutional depending on how you word it.

Your education clearly hasn't included Supreme Court decisions on the matter.

Quote from: Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980)
The pre-eminent purpose for posting the Ten Commandments on schoolroom walls is plainly religious in nature. The Ten Commandments are undeniably a sacred text in the Jewish and Christian faiths, and no legislative recitation of a supposed secular purpose can blind us to that fact. The Commandments do not confine themselves to arguably secular matters, such as honoring one's parents, killing or murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, and covetousness. Rather, the first part of the Commandments concerns the religious duties of believers: worshipping the Lord God alone, avoiding idolatry, not using the Lord's name in vain, and observing the Sabbath Day.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

CCTAU

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 01:00:05 AM »
Depends on the definition of posting.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Vandy Vol

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 01:01:43 AM »
Depends on the definition of posting.

 :taunt:
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

CCTAU

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 01:12:06 AM »
Let the people vote and see what becomes of it.

The SCOTUS is continually challenged on the 2nd amendment and squirrels like you don't say anything. So let the state challenge over this again.

It's how the process works. Somebody has to challenge the BS premise of separation of church and state that exists nowhere in our constitution!

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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Vandy Vol

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 01:47:01 AM »
Let the people vote and see what becomes of it.

The SCOTUS is continually challenged on the 2nd amendment and squirrels like you don't say anything. So let the state challenge over this again.

It's how the process works. Somebody has to challenge the BS premise of separation of church and state that exists nowhere in our constitution!

Yes, let's waste taxpayer's money to argue over something that won't benefit the taxpayers and has already been consistently decided on by federal courts for decades.  Should we also waste time and money enacting slavery laws just so the federal courts can tell us again and again that they're unconstitutional?  Gee golly, the voters in Alabama want slavery back!  Let's just vote on it and "see what becomes of it!"  What if Muslims want the Alabama legislature to meet and waste taxpayer money to debate whether verses from the Qu'ran can be posted in courtrooms?  Sure!  Argue away!  It's not like we're in debt and have better things to spend our time and money on.  Alabama citizens voting on an unconstitutional issue is how you challenge its unconstitutionality!

Wrong.  If you want to challenge whether the separation of church and state should exist, then you need to pass an amendment to the United States Constitution to remove the express mention of the separation of church and state that exists in the first amendment.  Enacting an amendment to the United States Constitution doesn't occur when Alabama citizens vote on something.

As far as "squirrels like me" saying anything about 2nd Amendment challenges, A) that is irrelevant to this discussion, and B) you don't have the slightest clue as to what my stance is on that, so don't create straw man arguments by pretending like you do.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin

Kaos

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 05:37:47 AM »
Yes, let's waste taxpayer's money to argue over something that won't benefit the taxpayers and has already been consistently decided on by federal courts for decades.  Should we also waste time and money enacting slavery laws just so the federal courts can tell us again and again that they're unconstitutional?  Gee golly, the voters in Alabama want slavery back!  Let's just vote on it and "see what becomes of it!"  What if Muslims want the Alabama legislature to meet and waste taxpayer money to debate whether verses from the Qu'ran can be posted in courtrooms?  Sure!  Argue away!  It's not like we're in debt and have better things to spend our time and money on.  Alabama citizens voting on an unconstitutional issue is how you challenge its unconstitutionality!

Wrong.  If you want to challenge whether the separation of church and state should exist, then you need to pass an amendment to the United States Constitution to remove the express mention of the separation of church and state that exists in the first amendment.  Enacting an amendment to the United States Constitution doesn't occur when Alabama citizens vote on something.

As far as "squirrels like me" saying anything about 2nd Amendment challenges, A) that is irrelevant to this discussion, and B) you don't have the slightest clue as to what my stance is on that, so don't create straw man arguments by pretending like you do.

First Amendment doesn't "expressly mention the separation of church and state."   

While I realize that's how the SC has typically twisted the phrase regarding the "establishment of religion" I disagree with that interpretation. The SC isn't infallible. Study history. That phrase was meant to prevent the government from creating a "Church of the US" and forcing everyone to be subject to the rules of that church as had happened when the "Church of England" had been created and used to impose the personal will of Henry VIII (who only wanted a divorce).  It was never intended to prevent the expression of religion. In fact, the rest of the amendment --which you ignore -- expressly prevents stifling the expression which is what is happening here.

"Separation of Church and State" does not truly exist in the way it has been implemented in the last 30+ years.


This is really a small part of a much larger argument.  We have drifted so far into the protection of the whims of a minuscule minority that the rights of the majority are being trampled. Should 1000 people really be denied their right to express their faith because it makes one person uncomfortable?

We've seen it with smoking. The non-smoking minority of the 70s pushed the agenda to the point that smokers are essentially exiled now.

What about my tomato aversion. The sight of the things makes me physically ill. I hate them. Seeing them on salad bars or on people's sandwiches or plates ruins my dinner. Since I am inconvenienced shouldn't I have the right to demand that all tomatoes be removed from restaurants around the country? Why aren't my rights being considered?

 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

wesfau2

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 08:11:27 AM »
Quote from: Kaos link=topic=23352.msg352659#msg352659


  It was never intended to prevent the expression of religion. In fact, the rest of the amendment --which you ignore -- expressly prevents stifling the expression which is what is happening here.

You're smarter than this, K.  Glossing over the distinction between state action and individual action is beneath you.



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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Kaos

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 09:11:51 AM »
You're smarter than this, K.  Glossing over the distinction between state action and individual action is beneath you.

No. I'm smarter than that.

Constitutional interpretation has become as silly as some of the biblical discussions among literalists I've seen.  "Legal scholars" and "bible literalists" are cut from the same cloth.

In their desire to deconstruct every syllable of every word, to parse every phrase and determine what their interpretation of the word "is"'is its my long-held opinion that they lose sight of the broader meaning and intent.

Once spent three days in a "bible study class" in a church where they were supposed to discuss Pauls letters to the Corinthians. By the third day I quit. These two "every word is sacred" blowhards debated over every single word -- even the "the's" -- and thought they were divining some great meaning from this exercise. Instead they missed the entire message being conveyed.

Constitutional law has reached that point. We've twisted the words to the point that in many cases I think we've lost sight of the intent.

And if I'm not mistaken the bill of rights relates to federal law and has no bearing on what states choose to do. Education, state government and local government all fall under the state purvey.
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

wesfau2

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 09:16:49 AM »
No. I'm smarter than that.

Constitutional interpretation has become as silly as some of the biblical discussions among literalists I've seen.  "Legal scholars" and "bible literalists" are cut from the same cloth.

In their desire to deconstruct every syllable of every word, to parse every phrase and determine what their interpretation of the word "is"'is its my long-held opinion that they lose sight of the broader meaning and intent.

Once spent three days in a "bible study class" in a church where they were supposed to discuss Pauls letters to the Corinthians. By the third day I quit. These two "every word is sacred" blowhards debated over every single word -- even the "the's" -- and thought they were divining some great meaning from this exercise. Instead they missed the entire message being conveyed.

Constitutional law has reached that point. We've twisted the words to the point that in many cases I think we've lost sight of the intent.

And if I'm not mistaken the bill of rights relates to federal law and has no bearing on what states choose to do. Education, state government and local government all fall under the state purvey.

That was a pile of bullshit unrelated to the actual, factual, non-imaginary, non-interpretative distinction between state action and individual action.

And federal law trumps state law...but you already knew that.  You're just being obtuse.
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

CCTAU

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Re: Screw it, I give up
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 09:23:27 AM »
That was a pile of bullshit unrelated to the actual, factual, non-imaginary, non-interpretative distinction between state action and individual action.

And federal law trumps state law...but you already knew that.  You're just being obtuse.

Are we going to debate the "the's" now?


Only the scholars see this as you do.

The rest of us see the constitution for what is is, not what each word means in Latin.

There is no separation of church and state in the constitution. This is a liberal interpretation of something that is not there. Last I heard, The Federalist was not part of the constitution.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 09:25:08 AM by CCTAU »
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.