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Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2012, 11:35:52 AM »
Listen here, Sweetcakes.  I thought I was having DT seizures, but the doctor told me it was all in my head.
GarMan can't help the ignorance of medical scientists.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2012, 12:32:34 PM »
GarMan can't help the ignorance of medical scientists. 
Like anything I've stated disagrees with those medical scientists...  But, wait!  Aren't you a big wiki fan?  I hear they're 100% accurate like 98% of the time.  Let's see what they say on the topic...

Quote
The symptoms from withdrawal may be even more dramatic when the drug has masked prolonged malnutrition, disease, chronic pain, or sleep deprivation, conditions that drug abusers often suffer as a secondary consequence of the drug. Many drugs (including alcohol) suppress appetite while simultaneously consuming any money that might have been spent on food. When the drug is removed, the discomforts return in force and are sometimes confused with addiction withdrawal symptoms, which they quite properly are not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal

Not?

Quote
However, addiction is to be carefully distinguished from physical dependence. Addiction is a psychological compulsion to use a drug despite harm that often persists long after all physical withdrawal symptoms have abated. On the other hand, the mere presence of even profound physical dependence does not necessarily denote addiction, e.g., in a patient using large doses of opioids to control chronic pain under medical supervision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal (Same as above...)

Did themz bastards just say it was psychological?  Uh-oh... 

Notice an absence of the word addiction in reference to DTs in the below wiki-quote?

Quote
Delirium tremens (Latin for "shaking frenzy", also referred to as The DTs, "the horrors" or "the shakes.") is an acute episode of delirium that is usually caused by withdrawal from alcohol, first described in 1813.[1][2] Benzodiazepines are the treatment of choice for delirium tremens (DT).[3]

Withdrawal from sedative-hypnotics other than alcohol, such as benzodiazepines, or barbiturates, can also result in seizures, delirium tremens, and death if not properly managed. Withdrawal from other drugs which are not sedative-hypnotics such as caffeine, cocaine, etc. does not have major medical complications, and is not life-threatening.[4] Withdrawal reactions as a result of physical dependence on alcohol is the most dangerous and can be fatal. It often creates a full blown effect which is physically evident through shivering, palpitations, sweating and in some cases, convulsions and death if not treated.[5]

When caused by alcohol, it occurs only in patients with a history of alcoholism. Occurrence of a similar syndrome due to benzodiazepines does not require as long a period of consistent intake of such drugs. Benzodiazepines are relatively safe in overdose when taken alone; however, if the overdose includes the use of other sedative drugs, alcohol in particular, it could lead to dangerous side effects.[6]

In the U.S., fewer than about 50% to 60% of alcoholics will develop any significant withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of alcohol intake, and of these, only 5% of cases of acute ethanol withdrawal progress to DT.[1] Unlike the withdrawal syndrome associated with opiate dependence, DT (and alcohol withdrawal in general) can be fatal. Mortality was as high as 35% before the advent of intensive care and advanced pharmacotherapy; in the modern era of medicine, death rates range from 5-15%.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens

And, what does the U.S. National Library of Medicine (aka medical scientists) say on the topic?

Quote
Delirium tremens

DTs; Alcohol withdrawal - delirium tremens
Last reviewed: March 20, 2011.

Delirium tremens is a severe form of alcohol withdrawal that involves sudden and severe mental or nervous system changes.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Delirium tremens can occur when you stop drinking alcohol after a period of heavy drinking, especially if you do not eat enough food.

Delirium tremens may also be caused by head injury, infection, or illness in people with a history of heavy alcohol use.

It is most common in people who have a history of alcohol withdrawal. It is especially common in those who drink 4 - 5 pints of wine or 7 - 8 pints of beer (or 1 pint of "hard" alcohol) every day for several months. Delirium tremens also commonly affects people who have had an alcohol habit or alcoholism for more than 10 years.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001771/

What?  There's no reference to addiction?  Is teh Garman possibly right, again?  That sumbitch!!!

But, but, but, but my favorite pro-pot website says...   :sad:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

djsimp

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2012, 12:36:39 PM »
Listen here, Sweetcakes.  I thought I was having DT seizures, but the doctor told me it was all in my head.

That was just you getting pounded in the ass by Uncle Buck.
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AUTiger1

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2012, 01:29:20 PM »
If you don't think that alcohol can't be a physical dependence then watch someone go through the DTs with your own eyes in front of you. 

Quote
Delirium tremens (Latin for "shaking frenzy", also referred to as The DTs, "the horrors" or "the shakes.") is an acute episode of delirium that is usually caused by withdrawal from alcohol, first described in 1813.[1][2] Benzodiazepines are the treatment of choice for delirium tremens (DT).[3]

Withdrawal from sedative-hypnotics other than alcohol, such as benzodiazepines, or barbiturates, can also result in seizures, delirium tremens, and death if not properly managed. Withdrawal from other drugs which are not sedative-hypnotics such as caffeine, cocaine, etc. does not have major medical complications, and is not life-threatening.[4] Withdrawal reactions as a result of physical dependence on alcohol is the most dangerous and can be fatal. It often creates a full blown effect which is physically evident through shivering, palpitations, sweating and in some cases, convulsions and death if not treated.[5]

When caused by alcohol, it occurs only in patients with a history of alcoholism. Occurrence of a similar syndrome due to benzodiazepines does not require as long a period of consistent intake of such drugs. Benzodiazepines are relatively safe in overdose when taken alone; however, if the overdose includes the use of other sedative drugs, alcohol in particular, it could lead to dangerous side effects.[6]

In the U.S., fewer than about 50% to 60% of alcoholics will develop any significant withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of alcohol intake, and of these, only 5% of cases of acute ethanol withdrawal progress to DT.[1] Unlike the withdrawal syndrome associated with opiate dependence, DT (and alcohol withdrawal in general) can be fatal. Mortality was as high as 35% before the advent of intensive care and advanced pharmacotherapy; in the modern era of medicine, death rates range from 5-15%.[1]

Once again, you can be physically dependent on alcohol.

From the Mayo Clinic, pretty sure those guys know a lot more than all of us X doctors.

Quote
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcoholism/DS00340

Definition
By Mayo Clinic staff

Alcoholism is a chronic disease in which your body becomes dependent on alcohol. When you have alcoholism, you lose control over your drinking. You may not be able to control when you drink, how much you drink, or how long you drink on each occasion. If you have alcoholism, you continue to drink even though you know it's causing problems with your relationships, health, work or finances.

It's possible to have a problem with alcohol but not have all the symptoms of alcoholism. This is known as "alcohol abuse," which means you drink too much and it causes problems in your life although you aren't completely dependent on alcohol. If you have alcoholism or you abuse alcohol, you may not be able to cut back or quit without help. A number of approaches are available to help you recover from alcoholism, including medications, counseling and self-help groups.

I may have not typed it in a way that conveyed it, but all I have said is that alcoholism is more than being in your head.  Your body can become physically dependent on it.

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GH2001

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2012, 02:01:25 PM »
Does this disprove any of my statements?  No...  A few of you continue to confuse addiction with withdrawal symptoms and detox.  I can't help your ignorance.

Yes, it does disprove where you implied it wasn't physical.

JR and I never said it wasn't pysch. It can be both.
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GH2001

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #85 on: March 12, 2012, 02:04:47 PM »
Once again, you can be physically dependent on alcohol.

From the Mayo Clinic, pretty sure those guys know a lot more than all of us X doctors.

I may have not typed it in a way that conveyed it, but all I have said is that alcoholism is more than being in your head.  Your body can become physically dependent on it.

Agree.

Most dependencies you see, most deaths, especially celebrity deaths are related to a physical dependency. None of us ever said both couldn't happen. They can. GarMan just refused to believe there could be a physical dependency. And he was wrong.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2012, 02:11:25 PM »
Once again, you can be physically dependent on alcohol.

From the Mayo Clinic, pretty sure those guys know a lot more than all of us X doctors.

I may have not typed it in a way that conveyed it, but all I have said is that alcoholism is more than being in your head.  Your body can become physically dependent on it. 

Again, this is really just a common confusion between the concepts of addiction, dependence and withdrawal symptoms.  They are frequently used incorrectly, and that's what seems to have everyone's panties in a wad.  I never said that you couldn't be physically dependent on alcohol.  I just explained that any addiction would be more psychological than chemical.  The chemical dependence does not result in any craving for alcohol.  The chemical dependence only means that you'd likely experience physical withdrawal symptoms from an abrupt discontinuation of alcohol consumption.  And, whether people want to believe it or not, you can become chemically dependent to virtually any substance, including marijuana.  It only requires enough of a dosage, consumed periodically over a duration of time.  This dependence would likely not imply an addiction. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GH2001

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2012, 02:14:19 PM »
Again, this is really just a common confusion between the concepts of addiction, dependence and withdrawal symptoms.  They are frequently used incorrectly, and that's what seems to have everyone's panties in a wad.  I never said that you couldn't be physically dependent on alcohol.  I just explained that any addiction would be more psychological than chemical.  The chemical dependence does not result in any craving for alcohol.  The chemical dependence only means that you'd likely experience physical withdrawal symptoms from an abrupt discontinuation of alcohol consumption.  And, whether people want to believe it or not, you can become chemically dependent to virtually any substance, including marijuana.  It only requires enough of a dosage, consumed periodically over a duration of time.  This dependence would likely not imply an addiction.

This sounds like your Archie Bunker bullshit way of admitting that a Physical Dependency can happen with alcohol. Glad you've come around finally.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2012, 02:16:55 PM »
Yes, it does disprove where you implied it wasn't physical.

JR and I never said it wasn't pysch. It can be both.

Again, you're just throwing generic phrases around interchanging dependence with addiction, incorrectly assuming that they are one in the same, and confusing physical withdrawal symptoms with addiction withdrawal.  And, pot should be legalized?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GH2001

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #89 on: March 12, 2012, 02:20:04 PM »
Again, you're just throwing generic phrases around interchanging dependence with addiction, incorrectly assuming that they are one in the same, and confusing physical withdrawal symptoms with addiction withdrawal.  And, pot should be legalized?

Me thinks someone made a dumb statement near the start of this thread and realizes it now.

When in doubt, muddy the waters, utilize wordplay and semenatic arguments - that'll show em!
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djsimp

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2012, 02:20:59 PM »
confusing physical withdrawal symptoms with addiction withdrawal.

So, this would not be physical addiction withdrawal symptoms?
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GH2001

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2012, 02:23:32 PM »
So, this would not be physical addiction withdrawal symptoms?

Well you see, the PHYSICAL WD symptoms have nothing to do with the addiction itself. The addiction is only in your mind and for mental reasons. When the mind decides it doesn't want booze anymore, the body has an argument with it, and they fight it out - and you get physical symptoms of a mental withdrawl. Yeah, thats it.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2012, 02:26:21 PM »
GarMan just refused to believe there could be a physical dependency. And he was wrong.

If you recall, JR was calling alcohol most certainly addictive, and I simply responded with...

I don't completely buy into that.  You could argue that anything in large enough doses is addictive to some extent, even pot.  It becomes more of a psychological addiction rather than a legitimate chemical addiction.

This says absolutely nothing about the dependency aspect of alcohol consumption. 

This sounds like your Archie Bunker bullshit way of admitting that a Physical Dependency can happen with alcohol. Glad you've come around finally. 

Really?  Several in this thread confused addiction with dependence, and I'm the one coming around?   :sad:
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

djsimp

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2012, 02:31:01 PM »
As I remember it, be addicted and having a dependency on it whether it be physical or mental is one in the same. Well, at least its how I remember it from the schooling days.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2012, 02:55:35 PM »
So, this would not be physical addiction withdrawal symptoms?

From alcohol, no...  The withdrawal symptoms that we've been discussing are primarily a result of chemical dependency.  The chemical dependency could be a result of the potential addiction, but the addiction doesn't result in these particular withdrawal symptoms. 

As I remember it, be addicted and having a dependency on it whether it be physical or mental is one in the same. Well, at least its how I remember it from the schooling days. 

That's frequently how the terms are confused, but that thinking is incorrect.  Addiction is usually characterized by an insatiable craving for a particular substance.  Chemical dependency on alcohol does not result in an addiction problem.  The chemical dependency is a result of excessive use over time, and that excessive use could be an indication of an addiction. 

You seemed to have it correct in your earlier posts... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

djsimp

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »
You seemed to have it correct in your earlier posts...

Thats before I got drunk and high.
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AUChizad

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2012, 02:59:42 PM »
The only thing I've learned from this thread is what DT's actually stands for, and that it's also the name of one of my favorite high grav beers.
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GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2012, 03:05:25 PM »
Well you see, the PHYSICAL... 

Look...  The pro-pot crowd, among others, gets this shit wrong all of the time.  It just adds to their lack of credibility.  Confusing addiction with dependency...  If I'm wrong, go find a reputable source to correct me.  I've been able to post a few sources that verified my facts.  Are you capable of doing the same?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2012, 03:10:35 PM »
The only thing I've learned from this thread is what DT's actually stands for, and that it's also the name of one of my favorite high grav beers. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/Ye3ecDYxOkg

That was likely Gail and Dale's last performance on Lawrence Welk...  Spiritual... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

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Re: Pat Robertson and Mary G. Juana
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »
I was gonna make love to you but then I got high
 I was gonna eat yo pussy too but then I got high
 now I'm jacking off and I know why, yea heyy,
 - cause I got high
 
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