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Law makes babies cry

AWK

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2011, 07:09:47 PM »
Oh, I see...  You people have got to make this about race.  Nevermind the fact that the first person arrested under the new law was from Yemen.  That must be a border town in Mexico...  Que?
lulz, 1 person from Yemen was arrested?!?!?  Must be completely unbiased then...
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

GarMan

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2011, 07:27:17 PM »
lulz, 1 person from Yemen was arrested?!?!?  Must be completely unbiased then...

Yeah...  They'll prolly set 'em free anyway since he's not Mex'can.  E'rybudy knowz, the white debilz are just goin' afta dem Mex'canz.  The dark hair and dark skin must have confuzed the cracka cop. 

Fuckin' dufus... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

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AWK

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 07:45:31 PM »
Yeah...  They'll prolly set 'em free anyway since he's not Mex'can.  E'rybudy knowz, the white debilz are just goin' afta dem Mex'canz.  The dark hair and dark skin must have confuzed the cracka cop. 

Fuckin' dufus...
Dude, if you honestly don't think this law was created with Hispanics in mind...specifically targeting without saying it, then you have gone full retard.
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

CCTAU

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2011, 09:37:34 PM »
Dude, if you honestly don't think this law was created with Hispanics in mind...specifically targeting without saying it, then you have gone full retard.

Well its not like we are being invaded by Canadians. And states are having to try and stem the flow of Mexican invaders the best they can. The law applies to any illegal, but it would be stupid not to recognize the Invasion from the south. So it matters not that most illegals are mexicans, but that the law be applied equally.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
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4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Kaos

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2011, 12:41:42 AM »
Well its not like we are being invaded by Canadians. And states are having to try and stem the flow of Mexican invaders the best they can. The law applies to any illegal, but it would be stupid not to recognize the Invasion from the south. So it matters not that most illegals are mexicans, but that the law be applied equally.

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GarMan

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2011, 09:15:45 AM »
Dude, if you honestly don't think this law was created with Hispanics in mind...specifically targeting without saying it, then you have gone full retard. 
 

Actually, it was probably created with illegal aliens who might happen to be from Mexico and South America in mind, since that probably defines 90+% of Alabama's illegal immigrant problem.  Targeting without saying it?  WTF does that mean, pendejo???  So, they must have documented to only look for straight-haired-brown-skinz...  That explains how illegal alien from Yemen got caught up in this. 

Like I said, Fucking Dufus... 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

ssgaufan

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2011, 10:18:42 AM »
So far, it seems that the new law is working without having to be enforced.
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GH2001

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
AWK, be honest - you just don't personally like the law. There is nothing illegal about it. NOTHING. The only thing illegal are the people it targets.
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GH2001

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2011, 10:19:48 AM »
So far, it seems that the new law is working without having to be enforced.
And BINGO was his name-o
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AWK

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2011, 12:09:01 PM »
AWK, be honest - you just don't personally like the law. There is nothing illegal about it. NOTHING. The only thing illegal are the people it targets.
Actually, I don't care either way... Since I was born here legally.  Do I think it could be handled better? Yes.  I am just letting you know that I'm 95% sure it will be found unconstitutional due to it's language and functionality.  I did a lot of Constitutional Law shit.  I'm a man.  I'm 40.
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

GH2001

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2011, 12:12:34 PM »
Actually, I don't care either way... Since I was born here legally.  Do I think it could be handled better? Yes.  I am just letting you know that I'm 95% sure it will be found unconstitutional due to it's language and functionality.  I did a lot of Constitutional Law shit.  I'm a man.  I'm 40.
So just the semantics of the way it is written is illegal to you or the law itself?

The general premise of the law is to catch illegals in the state. Nothing unconstiutional about that. Now, if they put some bad wording in it (I haven't read it verbatim), then that's another issue. I just haven't seen anyone point out exactly what is unconstitutional about it? I highly doubt there is any specific language in it targeting hispanics.
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WDE

Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2011, 12:17:29 PM »
Well this section of it may be illegally targeting hispanics: Any suspected illegal immigrant that understands what "Hable espanol?" means is automatically placed in the back of a pick up truck and dropped off in Mississippi.

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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

AWK

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2011, 12:24:23 PM »
So just the semantics of the way it is written is illegal to you or the law itself?

The general premise of the law is to catch illegals in the state. Nothing unconstiutional about that. Now, if they put some bad wording in it (I haven't read it verbatim), then that's another issue. I just haven't seen anyone point out exactly what is unconstitutional about it? I highly doubt there is any specific language in it targeting hispanics.
No, it will be overturned due to its results...the underlying effects.

I don't have time to write why, it would take hours and I'm not VandyVol.  But it will be similar to this: Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action v. Regents of the University of Michigan.

A law can appear to be constitutional on it's face, but naturally the underlying effects are far different.  See the Jim Crow laws.  "A citizen can not vote unless they are literate."  "A citizen can not vote unless they pay a poll tax."  Both of these laws, on their face, seem constitutional.  They don't refer to a specific race and apply broadly.  However, everyone knew, including the legislators, that they were targeting the African American community.  And a study of the effects of the law proved just that.  What happened to those laws?  Were they found to be constitutional?
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

GH2001

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2011, 12:31:18 PM »
No, it will be overturned due to its results...the underlying effects.

I don't have time to write why, it would take hours and I'm not VandyVol.  But it will be similar to this: Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action v. Regents of the University of Michigan.

A law can appear to be constitutional on it's face, but naturally the underlying effects are far different.  See the Jim Crow laws.  "A citizen can not vote unless they are literate."  "A citizen can not vote unless they pay a poll tax."  Both of these laws, on their face, seem constitutional.  They don't refer to a specific race and apply broadly.  However, everyone knew, including the legislators, that they were targeting the African American community.  And a study of the effects of the law proved just that.  What happened to those laws?  Were they found to be constitutional?

I can actually see on face value why those would be deemed as such. The Immigration Law I just don't see it. Illegal is illegal, unless its specifically calling out a certain group that is protected. Most of the good results from it will be deterence, as we are seeing already. Voting is a guaranteed right, and illiteracy or taxes paid aside shouldn't dictate that right. With this law we are dealing with people here illegally. There really aren't any rights since they are not citizens. Maybe I am just not seeing something.
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WDE

ssgaufan

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2011, 12:33:01 PM »

 What happened to those laws?  Were they found to be constitutional?

Hell I don't know, you're the one that went to law school.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2011, 12:41:10 PM »
Hell I don't know, you're the one that went to law school.

Post reminded me of the Bar exam.  We had just come out of the segment on tax and as you always do, we're discussing the question/answers etc.  The scenario was about a young couple who came into some money and blah blah yada yada.  Anyway, we're standing around talking about what we put and this one guy who had been standing there, not saying anything goes, "I put, this couple needs to talk to a tax attorney or an accountant..why are you asking me?"

We laffed.

He wasn't at the swearing in ceremony.
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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2011, 01:17:22 PM »
What the plaintiffs are saying:

Quote
In a filing Sunday, the plaintiffs listed some of the problems they contend are already occurring:

- "In a least one public elementary school in Montgomery on Sept. 30 teachers asked already enrolled Latino students questions about their immigration status and that of their parents."

- In the two business days that the law's (school provision) has been in effect, substantial numbers of currently enrolled children began withdrawing from Alabama public schools and others stayed home based on their fear that they would be subject to the new verification and recording requirements.

The Huntsville City Schools saw 207 Hispanic students absent on Thursday. After Superintendent Casey Wardynski went on Spanish-language TV Thursday evening  and said in Spanish "our students need not be afraid." The system also did a robo-call in Spanish to encourage students to return, the number of abasences declined on Friday to 127.

- The Montgomery Probate Office has published a notice requiring proof of U.S. citizenship or proof that a person is lawfully in the U.S. before any transaction can be conducted, except for corporations, LLCs or LLPs.

- On Sept. 29, Alabama Power told at least one family whose electricity had been disconnected that it could not restore power unless they could provide proof of lawful residence in the U.S.

- At least some individuals are being told they cannot renew rental agreements if they cannot provide provide of residence.

The state argued that Blackburn, last week, determined those laws were not unconstitutional in rejecting the plaintiffs request for a preliminary injunction. The state argued the plaintiffs have used the same failed arguments in seeking a stay while the case is appealed to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta.

A group of about 80 people protested the immigration law Sunday at state Sen. Scott Beason's church in Gardendale.


Times Staff Writer Crystal Bonvillian contributed to this report.


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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

Kaos

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2011, 01:33:26 PM »
What the plaintiffs are saying:

What I heard:

Quote
Whine, whine, bitch, bitch, bitch. Fuck the gringos, esse.

The Superintendent of Huntsville schools has a gaping, bleeding vagina.  Perhaps the whore should move to Mexico. 



To this I add:  Congratulations to landlords for making tenants prove they are here legally.  Congratulations to Alabama Power for demanding that customers not be illegals. 
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AWK

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2011, 01:39:05 PM »
I can actually see on face value why those would be deemed as such. The Immigration Law I just don't see it. Illegal is illegal, 1 . unless its specifically calling out a certain group that is protected. 2. Most of the good results from it will be deterence, as we are seeing already. 3. Voting is a guaranteed right, and illiteracy or taxes paid aside shouldn't dictate that right. With this law we are dealing with people here illegally. There really aren't any rights since they are not citizens. Maybe I am just not seeing something.
1. The Jim Crow laws didn't specifically call out a certain group.  2. Same thing was said referencing the Jim Crow laws.  It isn't that bad, we don't even enforce it half the time.  It just scares the African Americans away from the polls. 3. Yes, it is.  So is due process and protection from discrimination (13th Amendment).  Even if you take the argument that they are illegal and not citizens, I think it could be found unconstitutional based on the simple fact that it gives law enforcement officers unchecked power when it comes to probable cause and pulling anyone over. 

Scenario:  Officer thinks someone is drunk driving, but the driver has not broken a traffic law or anything.  Well, shit, I can just pull him over and say I have probable cause because I thought he was transporting illegal aliens or is one himself. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 01:42:04 PM by AWK »
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Redskins cornerback DeAngelo Hall said, "Guys don't mind hitting Michael Vick in the open field, but when you see Cam, you have to think about how you're going to tackle him. He's like a big tight end coming at you."

Vandy Vol

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Re: Law makes babies cry
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2011, 01:49:43 PM »
The issue of constitutionality in this particular case doesn't really have much to do with protected classes.  And no, it doesn't take hours to explain the reasoning as to why portions of this law may be unconstitutional.

First, it should be noted that this law includes a severability provision, stating that “If any part of this act is declared invalid or unconstitutional, that declaration shall not affect the part which remains.”  So if the only section found to be unconstitutional is the one which prevents employers from claiming wages paid to illegals as deductible, then all other sections can still be validly enforced.

There are a variety of sections that have been challenged for a variety of reasons; it's not as simple as stating that the law as a whole has been challenged for only one constitutional reason, such as the underlying effects.

The majority of the claims as to constitutionality are based upon federal preemption.  As an example, Section 13 of the law creates an Alabama-specific harboring scheme that “removes any federal discretion and impermissibly places the entire operation – from arrest to incarceration – squarely in the State’s purview.” (Cited from Judge Blackburn's memorandum opinion entered on September 28).

The opinion also found that sections 11(a), 13, 16, and 17 would likely be deemed unconstitutional, based upon the fact that they preempt the federal government by placing immigration operations within the State's purview.

I think people know that this is a law against illegal immigrants, and I think they immediately jump to conclusions about protected classes when the constitutionality of such a law is brought into question.  But, in actuality, the majority of the claims which are being considered as having merit are based upon federal preemption.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 01:50:24 PM by Vandy Vol »
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