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I submit to you....

JR4AU

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I submit to you....
« on: September 19, 2010, 02:22:38 PM »
All the yapping about the offense, all the "this is a HS offense", all the "horrible play calling", y'all are missing the bigger issue IMHO.  It's always bad play calling when it doesn't work...and I'm not saying it's all good, but it's not the real issue IMHO. 

First off, the only stats that matter:  3-0 overall, 1-0 in the SEC. 

In a game where the offense appeared to be horrible and inept at times, and the play-calling questionable, we managed to rack up 424 yards of total offense.  That on just 61 offensive plays...or about 75% of the number of plays Malzahn wants to run.  Recall that a bad day on offense under the Tubs regime could easily be half that yardage, and half the points.  The worst day Newton has had so far, he still was 50% passing, and threw 2 TDs, in spite of 2 INTs, and averaged a very good 14.5 yards per attempt.  McCaleb and Dyer combined for 151 yds on 26 Att.  5.8 ypa.  That's quite solid. Cam added 68 yds on 17 Att. for 4.0 ypa.  Again, solid.  We ran the ball 47 times compared to 14 passes, which IMHO, accounts for much of the "ugliness" of the offense.  We didn't think we'd see this type of offense out of "the spread".   The WHY of that may be the root issue.  Not real trust in Cam?  No trust in our Def.?  No confidence that our OL can protect?  I find it hard to buy that Malzahn just suddenly went all conservative. 

On a night where the Clemson Off. appeared good, and ours bad, we were still more efficient.  More points 27-24, more total yards 424-414, Auburn avg'd 6.9 yards per play vs Clemson's 5.0 yards per play, better yards per attempt rushing average 4.7 to 4.0, better yards per attempt passing avg 14.5 to 6.5.    In every aspect we were better on offense despite appearances, except:  Turnovers: AU 2-Clem. 0, another big one in Penalties (not all on off.): AU 9-90 Clem. 5-50.  They had the ball nearly 10 more minutes than we did, but IMHO, that's all but meaningless.  Another biggie...3rd down efficiency:  We were just 5 of 13, and that is NOT a meaningless stat.  That's bad!  Not horrible, but not good.  The better teams will be at 45-50%, and Clemson isn't a great defense.  Fortunately, Clemson was worse at 6 of 16.  The Penalties have GOT to stop, and we've got to have better 3rd down efficiency, and of course no turnovers.  IMHO, our problem isn't scheme, or play-calling, it's executing in critical areas like on 3rd down, and lack of discipline causing penalties.  A good SEC Def. will kill us if we don't fix those two things. 

I feel...IMHO, that Chiz has told Malzahn that we can't have our defense on the field all the time like last year...even though we did last night, at least in the first half, and that is contributing a lot to what folks think is bad play calling.  I also think that, though Cam isn't horrible passing, he is more likely to throw an INT than Todd was, AND he has the ability to get a first down with his legs where Todd didn't...I think this too is contributing to appears to be conservative play calling. 

Where we are bad, is on Def. in that we allow teams to get outside on us.  I don't know much about Def. Scheme, and you can say Bynes was a monster last night, but our overall LB play isn't good, and we're getting beat to the edge over and over, whether by the run, or the little screen/flare pass.

USCe, and Lattimore will eat us alive if we don't keep him contained to the inside.  We stand a chance IF we don't let Lattimore get loose to the outside.  I fear that we can't, but hope we can. 

I submit that when we lose, and it's coming, most likely this next Sat. if things aren't fixed, it will be because our defense can't contain, not because our offense can't score or move the ball.  If we turn the ball over 2 times against SC, we'll lose by two TDs.     
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 02:48:01 PM by JR4AU »
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The Prowler

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2010, 03:54:12 PM »
My thoughts exactly.

On the giving up the Off Tackle runs/sweeps and the screens, watch the OLBers (first year player in Darren Bates, Eltoro and a rusty Craig Stevens) they're getting washed in by the Tackles, TEs and the Crackback WRs.  It looks to me like their eyes are too fixed in the backfield causing their heads to not be on the needed swivel.

Clemson's D, as a whole isn't great.  Their Defensive Line is great and can/will dominate games (Dequan Bowers is an absolute Stud Kat).  It also doesn't hurt when they're going up against lineman that play patty-cake on some running plays, like AJ Greene seems to do.  Prayers have been sent out to AJ, but with all due respect, he fuckin' played HORRIBLE last night and not all of it was due to Bowers, a lot of it was because of him not playing worth a damn.

We could've ran the screen to AJ Greene's side and the DE would've never seen it coming.  If anyone thinks I'm wrong...go back and watch the replay, watch the plays that were blown up in the backfield, 95% of the time, it's AJ Greene's man.  Now again, Bowers is a fuckin' stud, but it's easier to fuck shit up when you don't get blocked and the RB runs right at you.

As for Cam, he's having trouble deciding on when to loft it and when to drill it, he's not doing it quick enough and by the time he lofts it to the WR, the Safety has the jump on the ball.  Also the clock in his head is out of wack, that is due to the defensive alignment shifts, the different things they're doing to mirror our shifting offense and not being entirely comfortable in our offense.  That'll come and when it does, watch out.  Cam also likes to eyeball his receivers at times, combine that with his indecisiveness to put touch on the ball or to drill it and you're looking at INTs.

We're Undefeated, right now, with things that we still need to iron out.  We've faced adversity twice and came with wins in both of those tests.

This game was fuckin' Huge as far as momentum goes, setting up the USCe/AU game to be a very big game.  You'll be hard pressed to find voters picking Auburn over USCe, and those voters will be wrong in their pick...which will make a win over USCe that much more impressive.
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Token

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2010, 04:02:48 PM »
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team. 

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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2010, 04:14:11 PM »
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team.

I tried to make sure that didn't come across as me saying there's nothing wrong with the offense.  It is very inconsistent.  Fact is, though, that is rarely about scheme, as much as it is about execution.   By way of example.  Bammer aint surprising anybody by running the zone play, or the play action off of it...try to stop it!  Nothing fancy about it...it's run at every level.  And, McElwane has even consulted extensively with the Nevada coach and his "gimmicky pistol/WAC Offense".  Still, they're strong offensively.   

I think Malzahn is struggling in two areas.  Trying to conform to Chiz's wishes about keeping the Defense off the field, and trying to adjust to the new type of talent we have at QB.  Much the same as Meyer is struggling to adjust to having a pure passer at QB, Malzahn is struggling with having the dual threat QB, and not having an established "carry the mail" type RB like Tate.  In a way, he may be overwhelmed by choices, and that may be causing them to waste valuable practice time finding who they are, rather than perfecting who they are.  In the end, the offense is Malzahn's baby, and he better figure out how to make it more consistent. 
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RWS

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2010, 04:31:27 PM »
Forget that I'm a fan of your rival.  I'm not saying this as a Bama fan who is pissed because you guys pulled it out in overtime. Nor am I'm saying this as a Bama fan who was laughing when Auburn was down 17-0.  I'm saying this as a college football fan who watched, in entirety, Auburn's last two games against Mississippi State and Clemson.  Malzhan's offense, schemes aside, went nearly an entire 4 quarters of football without putting a single point on the board. 

Auburn is 3-0, which is all that matters after 3 weeks into the season, but they are a dropped pass by Mississippi state away from entering overtime in the second game and a dropped pass away from losing in overtime in the third game.  I don't pretend to know all the inner working of Malzhan's offense, but I find it hard to disagree with some of these guys when they say there's something wrong with the offense.  This high powered, quick strike offense shouldn't go 4 quarters of football without scoring a point against Miss St and Clemson's defense. 

With that said, although it wasn't the best win in this young football season, I'm certain the recruits had a damn good time at the end.  Sometimes those last second victories do more for recruiting than shit stomping the other team.
We're all just still waiting on you to let the cat out of the bag on this whole uniform deal.
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RWS

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2010, 04:42:39 PM »
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.

I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?
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The Prowler

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2010, 04:49:23 PM »
Exactly, Auburn is fuckin' loaded with dynamic athletes all over the field, so much so, we're getting ourselves out of sync trying to get the ball to all of our playmakers....in short, we have to many Ballers.

It all starts up front, if you have a crack in the line, it's the same as having a crack in the Dam's wall...it better get patched STAT, or it'll get really ugly.  Big John Sullen (Sophmore) could be that patch as Roszell gets that knee completely healed and gets more comfortable in the offense.

Thanks goes out to Coach Tuberville and Co. for not bringing in a OLineman at all, or worth a fuck, after the Pugh/Ziemba/Chaz class.  Now that Greene is done, we've got a former Guard in Soph. John Sullen, a JUCO Roszell Gayden (knee surgery in the offseason) and JUCO Brandon Mosley (TE being converted to Tackle).
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"Patriotism and popularity are the beaten paths for power and tyranny." Good, no worries about tyranny w/ Trump

"Alabama's Special Teams unit is made up of Special Ed students." - Daniel Tosh

"The HUNH does cause significant Health and Safety issues, Health issues for the opposing fans and Safety issues for the opposing coaches." - AU AD Jay Jacobs

Token

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2010, 04:50:16 PM »
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.



I don't remember seeing Fannin run the ball last night, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Quote
I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?

Quote
Individual Passing Leaders
RK    Name    Team    COMP    ATT    PCT    YDS    AVG    TD    INT    SCK    SCK/YDS    RATING
1     Greg McElroy     Alabama    43    60    71.7    705    11.8    6    1    4    -12    200.0
2     Dan Persa     Northwestern    62    76    81.6    769    10.1    6    0    6    -43    192.6
3     Andrew Luck     Stanford    45    70    64.3    674    9.6    10    0    1    -8    192.3
4     Cameron Newton     Auburn    27    47    57.4    525    11.2    7    3    5    -34    187.7
5     Ryan Mallett     Arkansas    70    100    70.0    1081    10.8    9    2    4    -14    186.5
6     Brandon Weeden     Oklahoma State    74    101    73.3    975    9.7    11    2    3    0    186.3
7     Mike Hartline     Kentucky    54    75    72.0    680    9.1    5    0    1    -3    170.2
8     Ben Chappell     Indiana    48    65    73.8    548    8.4    5    0    1    -8    170.1
9     Ricky Stanzi     Iowa    47    74    63.5    711    9.6    6    1    9    -68    168.3

Just sayin.
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 04:53:44 PM »
Here's what the AU offense consisted of last night, or so it seemed:

1. Run Cam up the middle.

2. Run Dyer up the middle.

3. Loft the ball up like a rainbow and down the field about 40 yards to one receiver nearly every time and pray that your guy comes down with it.

When all else fails, give it to McCalebb or Fannin on the edges.

I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all. Also, I don't understand why Malzahn would have to "adjust to having a true dual threat QB". I mean, wasn't that was his offense was designed to run with? And so what if he has to slow the pace down a little to keep the defense off the field some. You're still hanging on to the ball and keeping the other offense off the field. Is it impossible for his offense to be ran at a slower pase?
I don't remember seeing Fannin run the ball last night, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

Just sayin.

Fannin never touched the ball, one more reason that assessment fails.  Another is this regarding Cam not being a good passer at all:  http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-ind-passing-efficiency.html
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2010, 04:59:13 PM »
Another thing...and again, not saying there aren't things to be fixed, but I keep hearing about "Cam up the middle", and "Dyer up the middle", and yet, this is the net result thru 3 games:

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-rushing-offense.html

Rank   Name   Games   Carries   Net   Avg.   TDs   Ydspg   Wins   Losses   Ties
1   Air Force   3   189   1197   6.33   14   399.00   2   1   0
2   Oregon   3   165   1142   6.92   12   380.67   3   0   0
3   Georgia Tech   3   171   1035   6.05   10   345.00   2   1   0
4   Nebraska   3   128   1032   8.06   15   344.00   3   0   0
5   Nevada   3   139   906   6.52   13   302.00   3   0   0
6   Michigan   3   144   859   5.97   10   286.33   3   0   0
7   Wake Forest   3   156   851   5.46   12   283.67   2   1   0
7   Army   3   176   851   4.84   11   283.67   2   1   0
9   TCU   3   143   839   5.87   14   279.67   3   0   0
10   Navy   3   176   818   4.65   7   272.67   2   1   0
11   Kansas St.   3   139   781   5.62   10   260.33   3   0   0
12   Auburn   3   142   778   5.48   5   259.33   3   0   0
13   Alabama   3   110   752   6.84   9   250.67   3   0   0
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RWS

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, 05:14:11 PM »
Fannin never touched the ball, one more reason that assessment fails.  Another is this regarding Cam not being a good passer at all:  http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-ind-passing-efficiency.html
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer. Saw quite a few throws last night where it was simply lofted up in the air downfield with the hopes that Adams would come down with it. Are you trying to tell me you are 200% confident that if AU finds a team that contains Newton in the pocket, that he can win it with his arm? I just don't think it will happen. Throw out all the stats you want. He looked human against MSU, and for the most part bad last night. I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2010, 05:16:57 PM »
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer. Saw quite a few throws last night where it was simply lofted up in the air downfield with the hopes that Adams would come down with it. Are you trying to tell me you are 200% confident that if AU finds a team that contains Newton in the pocket, that he can win it with his arm? I just don't think it will happen. Throw out all the stats you want. He looked human against MSU, and for the most part bad last night. I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.

Fail.
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jmar

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2010, 05:25:40 PM »
You see when Token criticizes and I criticize,  there is a similarity because I didn't attend Auburn and I wasn't spawned in the Dye, Bowden Tubs era. There is a different perspective from an old school sidewalk Auburn fan that learned football the Bryant way and a Bo Jackson era until 6 straight we are on equal footing Auburn fan.

I have a chip on my shoulder. I'm not elevating or denigrating either perspective but Auburn is a top fifteen program year in and year out and the results show that we need to learn how to FINISH. Hell, last night we forgot how to start! And that is the major difference between us and our neighbor to the northwest. They have a history of FINISHING while we have a history of being very competitive.

It doesn't change how I feel about Auburn. I've seen Sullivan bomb. I've seen the great Bo Jackson take himself out of a game. I've seen Miss.St. beat us three times , IN AUBURN! I went thru eleven straight. UT Coach Bill Battle punted to Shug's team on third down, numerous times in an effort to rub it in. My point is this: We have the opportunity on the big stage to perform and we get cold feet or opening jitters.This team has twenty four seniors, the most of any Auburn team ever.

 It might be unrealistic, but I was expecting better results with the influx of talent and if anyone reads my posts; although I am critical, I still have a positive take on our remaining schedule regardless of our shortcomings as a team because I know that every team on the schedule is beatable, pretty, ugly or otherwise.

We have squeaked by two opponents as Token mentioned but we have to learn to come out of the gates, sustain momentum, and FINISH! I don't give a rat's ass about which team wins the statistics "battle". I'm just an ordinary fan, and a bottom line guy.

I'm no expert or coach,  only I have seen us do more with less in the past. And IMO, the offense needs to keep striving for full throttle while the defense needs to make the necessary adjustments instead of dragging both down. The offense isn't broke unless we try to fix it.
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2010, 05:30:06 PM »
What you said was:

Quote
but I mean, I can't imagine that Cam is truly the best QB on the roster at AU right now. He's a very tough runner, and fast for his size as well. Not a good passer at all

After being shown that's wholly inaccurate, you respond in very childlike form with:
7/14 203 yards, 2 TD 2 INT, including OT. Great stat line. Cam for Heisman!

Just saying, the guy isn't that great of a passer.

 I mean, the way alot of folks here talked (I know not you), this kid was the next coming of Tebow.


I would, on the whole, agree with "isn't that great of a passer".

I don't agree with passing being lofted up with a prayer.  But have your take if you want. 
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jmar

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2010, 05:51:29 PM »
Cam Newton is the most dynamic dual threat college quarterback to ever play in this state. He has an extremely strong arm and a very good touch on the ball. He is not your standard  dropback passer and I'm pretty sure DC's only wish our big QB was more one dimensional.
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2010, 05:56:27 PM »
Cam Newton is potentially the most dynamic dual threat college quarterback to ever play in this state. He has an extremely strong arm and a very good fair touch on the ball. He is not your standard  dropback passer and I'm pretty sure DC's only wish our big QB was more one dimensional.

FTFY
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The Prowler

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2010, 06:08:47 PM »
keep talking shit SPuat fans, just remember what you've said, then after the Iron Bowl, we'll rehash it all out.  Y'all just need to worry about Arkansas' RBs, remember they roll 17 Deep at that position.
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"Patriotism and popularity are the beaten paths for power and tyranny." Good, no worries about tyranny w/ Trump

"Alabama's Special Teams unit is made up of Special Ed students." - Daniel Tosh

"The HUNH does cause significant Health and Safety issues, Health issues for the opposing fans and Safety issues for the opposing coaches." - AU AD Jay Jacobs

jmar

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2010, 06:28:06 PM »
FTFY
Yeah, I normally stray from absolutes and superlatives when describing individuals. I stand corrected but I like our chances with him.
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JR4AU

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2010, 06:34:44 PM »
Yeah, I normally stray from absolutes and superlatives when describing individuals. I stand corrected but I like our chances with him.

He has a lot of upside.  He's been better than I thought thus far.  Its hard to get in to such absolutes and superlatives 3 games in to his Auburn career though.
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jmar

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Re: I submit to you....
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2010, 06:39:57 PM »
He has a lot of upside.  He's been better than I thought thus far.  Its hard to get in to such absolutes and superlatives 3 games in to his Auburn career though.
Replay is on now if interested.
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