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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Kaos on January 10, 2018, 03:30:40 PM
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Just wondering what the general feeling is.
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I picked should have moved on, but things could be worse. Things could always be worse.
But we gave the man a huge salary based on two wins (that most on here have agreed should be part of his regular job). I feel as if we are in the same spot as when we hired him, we really don't know what kind of coach he is. Is he the bama & UGA world beater now? or are we the same team that played against LSU? Maybe we jelled at the right time and caught an unbeaten UGA off guard at home and a beat up bama squad again at home?
I think he is a hell of a recruiter given the climate at bama and now at UGlAy to have top 10 classes is something he definitely deserves kudos for.
I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth on this because while I don't totally blame him for the losses to UGA or UCF, I think there were other factors that came into play. Such as we came limping into the SEC championship and I don't think we gave a shit about UCF. However, I still partially blame him at the same time for those games, because I feel Kerryon should not have played (he was more of a liability) and I feel he should have had the boys more ready to play against UCF we looked sloppy.
He has turned our defense around and most don't give him credit for that, however, our offense is still very sporadic at times and that is supposed to be his genius.
I'm not sure that I really wanted to part ways with him this year, probably would have given him another year based on the whole season results, however I think the contract was a yuuuuge mistake.
I would have said coach we have an agreement here are your bonus payments for going to the SEC, we are going to give you a 500k raise, we will give you a 1 year extension (so contract goes through 2021 I think). We want you to stay but, if the grass is greener in Arky so be it.
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Should've moved on, but things could be worse.
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Glad we kept him
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I picked number D. I said numerous times, write the man a fat check for beating UGA and Bama, something he hadn't done the 3 previous years. Then tell him he's got a nice contract already. Stay if you want. Go if you want.
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I picked the middle one.
Everything GF said is true, but consider that what Saban is doing across the state is abnormal and no one else is coming close to doing what he's doing. Clemson's about the closest thing to it, and it's not really close. Gus is one of the very few active coaches that have beaten Saban and he's done it on multiple occasions.
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I picked the middle one.
Everything GF said is true, but consider that what Saban is doing across the state is abnormal and no one else is coming close to doing what he's doing. Clemson's about the closest thing to it, and it's not really close. Gus is one of the very few active coaches that have beaten Saban and he's done it on multiple occasions.
Gus, Dabo, and Urban. That's it.
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I was torn between 3 and D. I finally chose 4.
I think it's obvious that the extension was a mistake for every reason under the sun other than recruiting.
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I picked the middle one.
Everything GF said is true, but consider that what Saban is doing across the state is abnormal and no one else is coming close to doing what he's doing. Clemson's about the closest thing to it, and it's not really close. Gus is one of the very few active coaches that have beaten Saban and he's done it on multiple occasions.
Honestly, I think this will be the year we truly see what coach he is. Why...
- All returning assistant coaches: No excuses about Stidham and Lindsey not gelling.
- Returning QB: As much shit as I gave Stidham, and I think he has room for improvement. The kid is a good player and can win big games. Another year in the system with pretty much all of our WR's back. Again should have no excuses with the passing game.
- Reload: Needs to rebuild the offensive line, the biggest glaring issue for next year besides the schedule.
- Navigate the schedule: We have a tough schedule next season, if we can pull out 9-10 wins with no blow-outs, I will consider it a win.
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Honestly, I think this will be the year we truly see what coach he is. Why...
- All returning assistant coaches: No excuses about Stidham and Lindsey not gelling.
- Returning QB: As much shit as I gave Stidham, and I think he has room for improvement. The kid is a good player and can win big games. Another year in the system with pretty much all of our WR's back. Again should have no excuses with the passing game.
- Reload: Needs to rebuild the offensive line, the biggest glaring issue for next year besides the schedule.
- Navigate the schedule: We have a tough schedule next season, if we can pull out 9-10 wins with no blow-outs, I will consider it a win.
I agree with this 93.648% :thumsup: I can deal with 9-10 wins against the schedule we have. What this dude can't abide would be the losses coming as a result of going Full Gus.
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On the schedule note, it's actually a pretty interesting set up. If we can break the ATL curse and take care of the Huskies, all of our big games are at home until Amen Corner. And in a year when you normally look at our home schedule and try to find a game worth going to, this year looks pretty damn good. LSU, Tennessee and Texas A&M coming to JHS. Oh yeah, along with Alabama State. And if PCT stands me up for that one, like he did Alabama A&M, I will take the bus home and he will not see me at the pancake social on Tuesday.
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I agree with this 93.648% :thumsup: I can deal with 9-10 wins against the schedule we have. What this dude can't abide would be the losses coming as a result of going Full Gus.
If we have a game like LSU or Clemson next season, I would support firing him on the sideline. There should be no reason for that next year.
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If we have a game like LSU or Clemson next season, I would support firing him on the sideline. There should be no reason for that next year.
7M/year, we damn well better be in every game. We get our shit pushed in, someone needs to be out on their ass.
And for the record, I voted for E.
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7M/year, we damn well better be in every game. We get our shit pushed in, someone needs to be out on their ass.
And for the record, I voted for E.
Line stepper
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Line stepper
Habitually.
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And for the record, I voted for E.
Here's the thing, the poll was a little finite. I am actually a mixture of C, D and E.
E. Ultimately, I don't think he is going to work out either, I think in 4 years we are going to be coach shopping.
D. he is a good recruiter we have no AD, no leadership it seems in the Athletic Department. I really didn't want to bungle another HC search. I think it would have been a UT epic level fuck-up. So could have been worse.
C. I would have given him one more year based on the way this year turned out. The contract though was a colossal fuck up.
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Here's the thing, the poll was a little finite. I am actually a mixture of C, D and E.
E. Ultimately, I don't think he is going to work out either, I think in 4 years we are going to be coach shopping.
D. he is a good recruiter we have no AD, no leadership it seems in the Athletic Department. I really didn't want to bungle another HC search. I think it would have been a UT epic level fuck-up. So could have been worse.
C. I would have given him one more year based on the way this year turned out. The contract though was a colossal fuck up.
Line stepper. Oh wait...I mean, those are great points.
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D. he is a good recruiter we have no AD, no leadership it seems in the Athletic Department. I really didn't want to bungle another HC search. I think it would have been a UT epic level fuck-up. So could have been worse.
Really mostly about this for me.
I'm glad he didn't go to Arkansas or whatever. I'm glad we held on to him. The probability of actually upgrading was infinitesimally small. Considering all of the variables in this year's coaching carousel I'd say we were 99% likely to downgrade. Let alone all the instability factors that come from a coaching change, no matter how good or bad they are.
But we didn't need to break the bank to keep him, IMO. Could have probably suffered through some interim asshole for a year or so if push came to shove.
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Here's the thing, the poll was a little finite. I am actually a mixture of C, D and E.
E. Ultimately, I don't think he is going to work out either, I think in 4 years we are going to be coach shopping.
D. he is a good recruiter we have no AD, no leadership it seems in the Athletic Department. I really didn't want to bungle another HC search. I think it would have been a UT epic level fudge-up. So could have been worse.
C. I would have given him one more year based on the way this year turned out. The contract though was a colossal fudge up.
Yep, that's about how I feel, you just say it better.
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If we have a game like LSU or Clemson next season, I would support firing him on the sideline. There should be no reason for that next year.
Sorry to get all religious on you boys, but, Amen, brother Ben.
Shot a rooster, killed a hen.
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We don't have the mechanism in place for a Jetgate/Oliveresque coup so are stuck with Malzahn for over a half decade of mostly 8 or 9 win seasons IMO.
10+ wins are expected.
He might get to 10 twice over the next five seasons.
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I get the hair-tearing frustration with Gus's mistake-repetition. I hope he's still growing as a coach.
I get the consternation with throwing a mountain of cash at him. Market conditions are what they are.
Why I have no heartburn at all about the extension for Gus:
1) He is overseeing the golden age of Auburn recruiting;
2) 2 SECW (reputedly the toughest division in college football) Championships and 1 SEC Championship in 4 years. He is putting us in the conversation more often than not;
3) The value of stability and staff continuity, while unquantifiable, is valuable; and
4) There are no guaranteed upgrades and while we can question his decision making, he is not embarrassing the school/fanbase with buffoonery or criminal acts (a la Houston Nutt, Art Briles, Hugh Freeze).
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The probability of actually upgrading was infinitesimally small. Considering all of the variables in this year's coaching carousel I'd say we were 99% likely to downgrade.
But we didn't need to break the bank to keep him, IMO.
The two points above ^^ are the crux of it all.
And the first point is really the one keeping me from going all full Snags on him. More timing than anything. And well frankly, I don't want to be Tennessee and what they've done the last ten years wandering around aimlessly trying to "upgrade".
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Here's the thing, the poll was a little finite. I am actually a mixture of C, D and E.
E. Ultimately, I don't think he is going to work out either, I think in 4 years we are going to be coach shopping.
D. he is a good recruiter we have no AD, no leadership it seems in the Athletic Department. I really didn't want to bungle another HC search. I think it would have been a UT epic level fuck-up. So could have been worse.
C. I would have given him one more year based on the way this year turned out. The contract though was a colossal fuck up.
The sad part is, Arkansas played us. They were searching and he was the target that they were gonna pay big money for. If not for the two BIG wins, he would be coaching the hogwallers.
Now had Arkansas not been throwing all that money at him, I think we are sitting here in a much better position. Without the newest contract, we could part ways with him and only have a couple of years to pay on the buy out. As we sit today, we can't and won't fire him next season.
How I voted? Well we could be in worse shape had we let him go.
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The sad part is, Arkansas played us.
I disagree entirely. We were of no concern (except as counter-offeror) to Arky. They (or some of their power brokers) reallllllly wanted Gus. It wasn't a ploy to get Auburn to overspend.
In any year prior to 2017, the bidding would not have gotten so outrageous. The fact is, with so many top-tier jobs and so few quality candidates to fill them, the price to retain simply grew beyond our market expectations.
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I disagree entirely. We were of no concern (except as counter-offeror) to Arky. They (or some of their power brokers) reallllllly wanted Gus. It wasn't a ploy to get Auburn to overspend.
In any year prior to 2017, the bidding would not have gotten so outrageous. The fact is, with so many top-tier jobs and so few quality candidates to fill them, the price to retain simply grew beyond our market expectations.
Can't state this enough. The desire from arky was legit and serious. Auburn played no part in what they wanted.
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Had Arkansas already gotten someone else, would Auburn have done what they did? Arkansas may not have "played us", and I never thought that was their intention. But the mere fact that they were apparently open about wanting Gus made our administration shit themselves and throw wads of cash at a 5 loss a year coach.
Look, I'm going to say this so hear me now but believe me last Thursday. I think there are some extremely valid points made above, especially with regard to the coaching pool being dried up and the crazy environment with the carousel this year. I get that and it's probably a legit reason to make the effort to retain Malzahn. It's not a reason to give the man keys to the city and an upgrade in his BMW. As for the recruiting, I also agree that it's been top shelf since he got here. The other side of that is we have a group of 5-loss 5-stars. And a 4 year history of that gives every reason to believe that will continue.
But hey, you wanted stability. You got it.
I will shut up now regarding my objections to Malzahn. I've said my peace. :clap: :badger: :pb: :vn:
Despite what I've said, I'll be pulling for him and this program every game. I'm still going to the Planes like always. I'm still going to be just as interested in and picking apart every detail of the program, especially heights and weights. (And getting multiple shower pics) Most of all, I'll be pulling for a Bruce Pearl-esque turn around as I own the fact that I've been just as vocal about the horrible performance of his round hoops program to this point. I would LOVE nothing better than to be wrong. It doesn't happen very often, so I can live with the occasional slip up.
I'm done on Malzahn. War Damn!!!! Now, let's go get us a kick ass running back this February.
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Had Arkansas already gotten someone else, would Auburn have done what they did? Arkansas may not have "played us", and I never thought that was their intention. But the mere fact that they were apparently open about wanting Gus made our administration shit themselves and throw wads of cash at a 5 loss a year coach.
Look, I'm going to say this so hear me now but believe me last Thursday. I think there are some extremely valid points made above, especially with regard to the coaching pool being dried up and the crazy environment with the carousel this year. I get that and it's probably a legit reason to make the effort to retain Malzahn. It's not a reason to give the man keys to the city and an upgrade in his BMW. As for the recruiting, I also agree that it's been top shelf since he got here. The other side of that is we have a group of 5-loss 5-stars. And a 4 year history of that gives every reason to believe that will continue.
But hey, you wanted stability. You got it.
I will shut up now regarding my objections to Malzahn. I've said my peace. :clap: :badger: :pb: :vn:
Despite what I've said, I'll be pulling for him and this program every game. I'm still going to the Planes like always. I'm still going to be just as interested in and picking apart every detail of the program, especially heights and weights. (And getting multiple shower pics) Most of all, I'll be pulling for a Bruce Pearl-esque turn around as I own the fact that I've been just as vocal about the horrible performance of his round hoops program to this point. I would LOVE nothing better than to be wrong. It doesn't happen very often, so I can live with the occasional slip up.
I'm done on Malzahn. War Damn!!!! Now, let's go get us a kick ass running back this February.
To answer the first question....nope. But that was the market that existed - the supply and demand as Wes stated. Ark created that dynamic not us so it is what it is. Not sure anyone agrees with it entirely but you pay to play. I was in favor of a nice raise but not what he got.
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I get the hair-tearing frustration with Gus's mistake-repetition. I hope he's still growing as a coach.
I get the consternation with throwing a mountain of cash at him. Market conditions are what they are.
Why I have no heartburn at all about the extension for Gus:
1) He is overseeing the golden age of Auburn recruiting;
2) 2 SECW (reputedly the toughest division in college football) Championships and 1 SEC Championship in 4 years. He is putting us in the conversation more often than not;
3) The value of stability and staff continuity, while unquantifiable, is valuable; and
4) There are no guaranteed upgrades and while we can question his decision making, he is not embarrassing the school/fanbase with buffoonery or criminal acts (a la Houston Nutt, Art Briles, Hugh Freeze).
Don't get me wrong I love your optimism and I hope you are right. I just feel every step forward we make is followed by 2 steps back.
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This year was a very odd year. We have the talent and it was a tough year for Gusco.
Last year, we kept losing key components. So it was frustrating to watch Gus fold under the pressure of having enough backups prepared.
So I am hoping that with the experience form last season and the success of this season, he can move forward as a coach that will be prepared.
Watching your biggest rival playing 2 QBs and 4 RBs (some frosh), its hard to watch him put everything on just a few key guys. Hopefully he has learned. If not, we'll keep praying in the big games and clawing our eyes out for the LSU type games.
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This year was a very odd year. We have the talent and it was a tough year for Gusco.
Last year, we kept losing key components. So it was frustrating to watch Gus fold under the pressure of having enough backups prepared.
So I am hoping that with the experience form last season and the success of this season, he can move forward as a coach that will be prepared.
Watching your biggest rival playing 2 QBs and 4 RBs (some frosh), its hard to watch him put everything on just a few key guys. Hopefully he has learned. If not, we'll keep praying in the big games and clawing our eyes out for the LSU type games.
I’m not sure that any lessons have been learned. I’m not even certain that he really believes that he’s responsible for Clemson, LSU and UCF.
Facilities and talent is arguably on par with anyone.
The key? I say coaching.
This coming season tells a tale but if it turns out that it determines we should change? We are stuck.
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I can deal with 9-10 wins against the schedule we have.
This doesn't compute for me. Our odd-year schedules are much tougher and we won 10 this year. You were pretty vocal in your criticism of Gus in regards to the results this year. Why give him a (relative) pass in a year with more favorable scheduling?
In reconsidering the contract extension, I wonder if we don't actually save money with it. Fire Gus and there is a buyout and a new coach to hire. The new coach will get a bunch of (market driven) guaranteed money along with a fat buyout. Odds are he will fail and we will pay him what amounts to: Gus's buyout, his signing bonus/guarantee PLUS his buyout.
Worst case scenario with Gus: we're hung with his contract over that same time frame.
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This doesn't compute for me. Our odd-year schedules are much tougher and we won 10 this year. You were pretty vocal in your criticism of Gus in regards to the results this year. Why give him a (relative) pass in a year with more favorable scheduling?
In reconsidering the contract extension, I wonder if we don't actually save money with it. Fire Gus and there is a buyout and a new coach to hire. The new coach will get a bunch of (market driven) guaranteed money along with a fat buyout. Odds are he will fail and we will pay him what amounts to: Gus's buyout, his signing bonus/guarantee PLUS his buyout.
Worst case scenario with Gus: we're hung with his contract over that same time frame.
The only coach I would have been ok with firing gus for would have been Patterson. And it would have taken close to if not equal to what we just gave gus PLUS gus' buyout PLUS Patterson's buyout. Also not financially sound.