Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports

Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 11:19:06 AM

Title: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 11:19:06 AM
Who would you want and who would be realistic?

Based on Auburn football in the past, my assumption is that Rhett Lashlee will be coaching elsewhere next season based on the offensive production. As we all know, typically after a season like this year, one will be the fall guy depending on what side of the ball sucked worse.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Jumbo on November 30, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
Chad Morris or Tom Herman.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 12:01:07 PM
Chad Morris or Tom Herman.

As O.C.? I mean, that would be awesome but it looks like these guys are more interested in being a head coach.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Jumbo on November 30, 2015, 12:02:59 PM
As O.C.? I mean, that would be awesome but it looks like these guys are more interested in being a head coach.
I think we can get both.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:15:40 PM
Give me Mike Shula. I have Cam Newton and we are a zone blocking, run/play action offense. We run pace with particular emphasis on the read option. Stop us if you can.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: RottenBottom on November 30, 2015, 12:19:37 PM
Getting away from Gus's style would be a start. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 12:20:01 PM
I think we can get both.

Well, if that happened, I think most AU fans would be ecstatic. I mean, money talks, but lawd of mercy, that would one heckova combined salary for the coordinators alone. Would be well worth it i would think but a serious long shot.
 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:26:34 PM
Getting away from Gus's style would be a start.
Baylor is considered a system and Auburn's is to to a degree considering the blocking style with pace. I just like the attacking style of Briles over the fight from your back/win it in the end style of Gus. And if we can keep building a defense it's everyone's hope to put that to the test.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:33:12 PM
Seriously though, Gus isn't going to have anyone he isn't comfortable with because of what he had to deal with at Tulsa, Arkansas and Auburn.

Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Townhallsavoy on November 30, 2015, 12:36:51 PM
Maybe you recruiting gurus can help me here: How well is Craig recruiting for us?

If he's doing well, then move him to QB coach. If not, let him go.

Hire the best receiver's coach money can buy.

We had a lot of issues with drops. Granted, drops can sometimes be caused by a bad rhythm and bad balls from the QB. But a championship caliber program makes most of their catches.

Gus is the OC. Always will be as long as he's the head coach. Might as well own it and hire more position assistants.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 12:40:30 PM
Who would you want and who would be realistic?

Based on Auburn football in the past, my assumption is that Rhett Lashlee will be coaching elsewhere next season based on the offensive production. As we all know, typically after a season like this year, one will be the fall guy depending on what side of the ball sucked worse.

Most realistic?  Lashlee...he's not going to be fired. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:42:10 PM
Maybe you recruiting gurus can help me here: How well is Craig recruiting for us?

If he's doing well, then move him to QB coach. If not, let him go.

Hire the best receiver's coach money can buy.

We had a lot of issues with drops. Granted, drops can sometimes be caused by a bad rhythm and bad balls from the QB. But a championship caliber program makes most of their catches.

Gus is the OC. Always will be as long as he's the head coach. Might as well own it and hire more position assistants.
Ah the receiver coach that can teach a lad to catch is rare indeed.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:42:39 PM
Most realistic?  Lashlee...he's not going to be fired.
Agree.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: CCTAU on November 30, 2015, 12:46:53 PM
I think we can get both.

Sure. We would just have to fire what we have now. That would be an intelligent move...
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 12:50:05 PM
Maybe you recruiting gurus can help me here: How well is Craig recruiting for us?

If he's doing well, then move him to QB coach. If not, let him go.

Hire the best receiver's coach money can buy.

We had a lot of issues with drops. Granted, drops can sometimes be caused by a bad rhythm and bad balls from the QB. But a championship caliber program makes most of their catches.

Gus is the OC. Always will be as long as he's the head coach. Might as well own it and hire more position assistants.

I agree with this mostly. I'm not sure how willing Gus is by letting go the play calling completely. The WRs have dropped a lot the last several years.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 12:53:28 PM
Sure. We would just have to fire what we have now. That would be an intelligent move...
The answer is attaining the right QB to fit what you do best.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 12:53:36 PM
Most realistic?  Lashlee...he's not going to be fired.

Its just a theory based on what we have seen in the past with Auburn. Auburn has a bad season, heads roll. Like I said, I highly doubt Gus is will to let go of the offense completely which means IF Lashlee goes and another OC is hired then it would have to be one that is willing to accept that. This would tell me a hire from within.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
The answer is attaining the right QB to fit what you do best.

That, I think is the only way Gus saves Lashlee from PTB. Gus would basically have to put all bets on next year and guaranteeing success with a new QB running the show.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 01:05:37 PM
The answer is attaining the right QB to fit what you do best.

While the conventional wisdom is Gus needs a dual threat QB to make things go...I still don't think it's true, it just makes things that much better when he has that, but he can absolutely function at a high level with a guy that can be a QB within the Run/Play Action passing scheme.  Conversely, no offense functions well with the likes of JJ at the controls.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: RottenBottom on November 30, 2015, 01:10:25 PM
Baylor is considered a system and Auburn's is to to a degree considering the blocking style with pace. I just like the attacking style of Briles over the fight from your back/win it in the end style of Gus. And if we can keep building a defense it's everyone's hope to put that to the test.
The main problem I have with the offense Gus runs is I don't think it is designed to come from behind.  When it dominates a game it is a thing of beauty! But how many times have you felt helpless when we do fall behind.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on November 30, 2015, 01:14:43 PM
The main problem I have with the offense Gus runs is I don't think it is designed to come from behind.  When it dominates a game it is a thing of beauty! But how many times have you felt helpless when we do fall behind.

I suggest we try not to fall behind very often then.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on November 30, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
That, I think is the only way Gus saves Lashlee from PTB. Gus would basically have to put all bets on next year and guaranteeing success with a new QB running the show.
Lovable Les would never be on chopping block with a good QB. Richt has struggled with this recently and he is now gone. Where would Big Game Bob be with Trevor Knight? Or Dumbo Swinney without Deshaun Watson?
McElwain had Greer...but now he has Treon Harris.
Mullen-Prescott et al.

There are exceptions...
Serviceable works for Nick Saban rolling 4 deep at most every position.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Kaos on November 30, 2015, 01:21:31 PM
The main problem I have with the offense Gus runs is I don't think it is designed to come from behind.  When it dominates a game it is a thing of beauty! But how many times have you felt helpless when we do fall behind.

Seriously? 

Until this season NEVER.  Behind was never a problem.  If we had the ball down 10 with 24 seconds left I knew we could score twice.  Never doubted. Until this season - actually until the botched snap against Texas A&M last year - I always felt offensively invincible.  Until that botched snap I was confident we were going to score whenever we wanted to and as much as we wanted to. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 01:30:03 PM
Seriously? 

Until this season NEVER.  Behind was never a problem.  If we had the ball down 10 with 24 seconds left I knew we could score twice.  Never doubted. Until this season - actually until the botched snap against Texas A&M last year - I always felt offensively invincible.  Until that botched snap I was confident we were going to score whenever we wanted to and as much as we wanted to.

^^THIS^^
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Buzz Killington on November 30, 2015, 01:33:53 PM
Sure. We would just have to fire what we have now. That would be an intelligent move...

If you fire them, they will come.  Or something like that.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: WiregrassTiger on November 30, 2015, 01:35:20 PM
I have a long and unrealistic list. But, realistically, jmar or Prowler. And they may be better play callers than Lashlee.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: RottenBottom on November 30, 2015, 01:36:44 PM
Seriously? 

Until this season NEVER.  Behind was never a problem.  If we had the ball down 10 with 24 seconds left I knew we could score twice.  Never doubted. Until this season - actually until the botched snap against Texas A&M last year - I always felt offensively invincible.  Until that botched snap I was confident we were going to score whenever we wanted to and as much as we wanted to.
You say that, but we've suffered far too many blowouts in the Gus era, against major rivals I might add, for that to be true.

Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 01:52:04 PM
You say that, but we've suffered far too many blowouts in the Gus era, against major rivals I might add, for that to be true.

Um, no...

2014: Of the 5 losses...

Never in the game against MSU due to 21pts scored by MSU in the 1st.  Lost by 15 (blowout?)
Lost by 3 to aTm, and but for a botched snap on a final drive would have tied or won.
UGA loss 34-7, blow out.
Lost to #1 Bama by 11, and had a lead going in the the 4th Q. 
Lost in OT to Wisc by 3.

2013 2 losses
by 14 to LSU in there place
by 3 to FSU in the NC game on a last second score. 

In 2013 and 14 he only failed to score 30pts or more 4 times. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 02:02:25 PM
Ok, maybe the question should be....(see poll added above)
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 02:03:38 PM
Ok, maybe the question should be....

Just spitballin' here...

Who is the new QB, and when will he be on campus?
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 02:06:11 PM
Just spitballin' here...

Who is the new QB, and when will he be on campus?

James Franklin III JUCO transfer
Woody Barrett

Both considered dual threat.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 02:09:09 PM
James Franklin III JUCO transfer
Woody Barrett

Both considered dual threat.

I think you'll see "the genius" in Gus' system return if and when they have a decent QB, and in the whole program if they can put a good (or great) offense together, and the defense continues to improve.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
My concern is that there will be those that try and force Malzahn to make such a move like we have seen with all the past Auburn head coaches. Do I think Lashlee should be fired, no I don't. I would like to see the continuity of the coaching staff continue to grow and mesh instead of bringing in a new coordinator every year AU does bad. Plus, I think we can all agree that Gus has his hands in what the offense does.

Again, its whether Lashlee should or should go but more about the folks with the money making him go. With that said and using the past as a measuring stick, I am betting that Lashlee goes.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on November 30, 2015, 02:19:40 PM
I suggest we try not to fall behind very often then.

Then there is that.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on November 30, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
Um, no...

2014: Of the 5 losses...

Never in the game against MSU due to 21pts scored by MSU in the 1st.  Lost by 15 (blowout?)
Lost by 3 to aTm, and but for a botched snap on a final drive would have tied or won.
UGA loss 34-7, blow out.
Lost to #1 Bama by 11, and had a lead going in the the 4th Q. 
Lost in OT to Wisc by 3.

2013 2 losses
by 14 to LSU in there place
by 3 to FSU in the NC game on a last second score. 

In 2013 and 14 he only failed to score 30pts or more 4 times.

was about to say....even this year, only LSU really blew us off the field.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: bottomfeeder on November 30, 2015, 02:58:01 PM
Baylor is considered a system and Auburn's is to to a degree considering the blocking style with pace. I just like the attacking style of Briles over the fight from your back/win it in the end style of Gus.

GUS's keep close until the fourth quarter and then find a way to win mantra needs to be removed from the AU lexicon.
I'm sick of that come from behind mentality. I want a team that will overcome all, even the zebras. Shit like bad and no calls won't matter because we will steamroll that shit.

Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 03:57:53 PM
was about to say....even this year, only LSU really blew us off the field.

My memory is short, and had to go back and look at '14.  I forgot that we should have been in the hunt for it all, but for having no defense.  That could have easily been a 10-11 win team with just a break or 2 here or there even not having any defense. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
GUS's keep close until the fourth quarter and then find a way to win mantra needs to be removed from the AU lexicon.
I'm sick of that come from behind mentality.

That's pretty much a coaching mantra...it's not a come from behind mentality. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on November 30, 2015, 04:04:12 PM
Baylor is considered a system and Auburn's is to to a degree considering the blocking style with pace. I just like the attacking style of Briles over the fight from your back/win it in the end style of Gus.

The conference Baylor plays in is far different defensively than the SEC.  That said, I assure you that Gus' style isn't a fight from your back mentality.  Yes, this season, it looked ugly...because it was.  After 3 games, Gus/Lashlee were waffling back and forth between grab-bagging the offense, and going untra conservative. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: The Prowler on November 30, 2015, 05:01:58 PM
Either promote Coach Craig to OC/QB Coach and bring in a bonifide WR Coach...or promote Bobby Bentley to QB Coach (he's well known in South Carolina as being a "QB Guru")/Co-Oc with Coach Craig.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Townhallsavoy on November 30, 2015, 05:11:48 PM
My memory is short, and had to go back and look at '14.  I forgot that we should have been in the hunt for it all, but for having no defense.  That could have easily been a 10-11 win team with just a break or 2 here or there even not having any defense.

Outside of the Georgia game, that team could have not only won but blown out every team in spite of the defense.

But the offense had faults too. It started in the Mississippi State game. We have not been able to score in the red zone since September of 2014.

The end of this season has given me a little hope. I'm still pissed at the state of the program. But with our defense improving, if we can get Malzahn's offense back, we should be able to compete for the West.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 01, 2015, 05:09:32 AM
Outside of the Georgia game, that team could have not only won but blown out every team in spite of the defense.

But the offense had faults too. It started in the Mississippi State game. We have not been able to score in the red zone since September of 2014.

The end of this season has given me a little hope. I'm still pissed at the state of the program. But with our defense improving, if we can get Malzahn's offense back, we should be able to compete for the West.
The conference Baylor plays in is far different defensively than the SEC.  That said, I assure you that Gus' style isn't a fight from your back mentality.  Yes, this season, it looked ugly...because it was.  After 3 games, Gus/Lashlee were waffling back and forth between grab-bagging the offense, and going untra conservative. 
Defensively yes. That conference is more like Oregon with some big athletic line play but Baylor plugs and plays, never wavering from what they do. They don't go in a shell.

Conversely our offense without the zone read is all but hamstrung. I don't recall any Counter Trey, only Power and Sweeps with Bubble Screens which is all but a run play.
 
Then we have much of the same happening with the pass patterns where so many times we ran the same failed pattern as if it were practice.
Where is the "genius" in limiting an offense to 12-15 plays with occasional variations? Sure it's about execution, but the opposing defenses adjust which IMO is why we often hit a wall (PUNT, PUNT) after halftime.

We might even open the third quarter with the same scripted plays we began with.
They'll never know what hit 'em.

Just give us a dual threat QB and let him move the chains.   
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: bottomfeeder on December 01, 2015, 08:33:19 AM
While the conventional wisdom is Gus needs a dual threat QB to make things go...I still don't think it's true, it just makes things that much better when he has that, but he can absolutely function at a high level with a guy that can be a QB within the Run/Play Actiottcn passing scheme.  Conversely, no offense functions well with the likes of JJ at the controls.

Gus's system will not work without a dual threat/mobile QB.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Kaos on December 01, 2015, 08:55:16 AM
Gus's system will not work without a dual threat/mobile QB.

The fuck did you just say?

(http://media.al.com/ray-melick/photo/todd-1126jpg-037aa7224ed61a0f_medium.jpg)
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Buzz Killington on December 01, 2015, 09:09:29 AM
Gus's system will not work without a dual threat/mobile QB an experienced and mean H-Back that can make the big block when needed and catch the ball on a wheel route as well.

Fixt
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 01, 2015, 09:20:25 AM
Gus' offense was good enough to win Saturday if the QB could simply hit wide open receivers and/or those receivers could catch it when he did hit them.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 01, 2015, 09:37:09 AM
Gus' offense was good enough to win Saturday if the QB could simply hit wide open receivers and/or those receivers could catch it when he did hit them.
and we could make a tackle on Proactiv
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on December 01, 2015, 09:42:32 AM
Gus' offense was good enough to win Saturday if the QB could simply hit wide open receivers and/or those receivers could catch it when he did hit them.

The WRs certainly did not help.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 01, 2015, 09:56:03 AM
With where we were sitting, Ricardo Lewith was running right towards us and it was like the seas parted. Wide open and you could see JJ pick him up and turn it loose.....5 yards out of reach.  Deflating!  But then, it's pretty much a 50/50 proposition if he does hit him in stride.  No guarantee that Lewtih is going to catch it.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 01, 2015, 10:48:41 AM
The fuck did you just say?

(http://media.al.com/ray-melick/photo/todd-1126jpg-037aa7224ed61a0f_medium.jpg)

That team was only a hair better than this one. It just had a QB that didnt LOSE games. That team got blown out against Ark and LSU, and the O stalled against good D's. His O does work best with a dual threat...period. No offense to Paul Smith or Chris Todd, but would you prefer either of those (or JJ) over Nick and Cam??

This year in a nutshell is two things:

1. We have a coach coaching with his asshole puckered and with suit wearing snarmy goons breathing down his neck

2. We seriously misfired on our QB right out of the gate and did our best to salvage what did end up being there instead of what we thought was there.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: WiregrassTiger on December 01, 2015, 10:54:55 AM
I think that the WR problem with catches can be attributed to them being shocked when the ball is actually thrown within reach. It has happened so few times with JJ that it's like being hit with a bolt of lightning or hitting the lottery.

"Oh shit! This one isn't 7 yards behind me and 12 foot high! I've actually got a chan.....Dammit!"
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 01, 2015, 11:06:19 AM
I think that the WR problem with catches can be attributed to them being shocked when the ball is actually thrown within reach. It has happened so few times with JJ that it's like being hit with a bolt of lightning or hitting the lottery.

"Oh shit! This one isn't 7 yards behind me and 12 foot high! I've actually got a chan.....Dammit!"

I think we should switch Countess to receiver. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Kaos on December 01, 2015, 11:22:19 AM
I was chastised by a Bama fan after telling him how little I thought of the decision to run fucking Derrick Henry again with 30 seconds left trying to get his cro magnon ass another score. 

He pointed out that if our receiver catches the ball for a wide open first down, Henry never sees the field. 

He's right, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the trigger-fish fuck was still in there getting carries with the game in hand.  So still... fuck them until they die.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: RottenBottom on December 01, 2015, 12:16:55 PM
Gus's system will not work without a dual threat/mobile QB.
In Gus's third year why didn't he have this said QB on campus?
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 01, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
In Gus's third year why didn't he have this said QB on campus?

Good question.

I think it CAN work and be serviceable with a non-dual threat. It just isn't gonna hum like we were used to seeing in 2010, 2013 and most of 2014 (I think there were some chemistry issues with Harbison and Whitehead).

I imagine in practice Jeremy looked all world and that the bets were that he would be at minimum serviceable like Chris Todd or Paul Smith. No one could have predicted fully how full tard JJ would be in game. He was on most preseason lists for anything that was good. It was simply a misfire.

Now we have Barret coming in, and as soon as shit hit the fan - you saw Gus go and grab JF3. He at least has seen the mistake and is trying to adjust.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 01, 2015, 12:46:14 PM
In Gus's third year why didn't he have this said QB on campus?

IMO I think they thought they had it in Jeremy.  When you can't hit QB's in practice, JJ probably looked all world.  He was wrong.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: RottenBottom on December 01, 2015, 01:01:29 PM
IMO I think they thought they had it in Jeremy.  When you can't hit QB's in practice, JJ probably looked all world.  He was wrong.
This is the only thing that really has me scared. He missed on Keihl and Jeremy.  I hope his new guy is lightning in a bottle.

IMO yall are giving the "offensive genius" too much leniency. Hard questions should be asked as to why the QB situation at Auburn is maybe a little better than mediocre  ever since Sean White started playing with 1 leg.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 01, 2015, 02:13:29 PM
This is the only thing that really has me scared. He missed on Keihl and Jeremy.  I hope his new guy is lightning in a bottle.

IMO yall are giving the "offensive genius" too much leniency. Hard questions should be asked as to why the QB situation at Auburn is maybe a little better than mediocre  ever since Sean White started playing with 1 leg.

I dont disagree with that at all. Its ultimately on Gus. And I think hes earned the chance to right it with the next guy, next year. He doesn't then? Well, its become a trend at that point and something will need to happen. BUt I give him a slight pass this year on Jeremy. No one saw that fuck up coming...not to the degree that it did.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on December 01, 2015, 02:20:43 PM
I dont disagree with that at all. Its ultimately on Gus. And I think hes earned the chance to right it with the next guy, next year. He doesn't then? Well, its become a trend at that point and something will need to happen. BUt I give him a slight pass this year on Jeremy. No one saw that fuck up coming...not to the degree that it did.

This is they was Malzahn will have to sell him keeping his offensive coaching staff intact along with going all in with either JFIII or the Barrett kid. I would imagine Gus is feeling some heat regarding this which is the initial point of this thread. On another note, I am curious how Gus will sell the idea to Muschamp to stick for another year as DC.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 01, 2015, 06:17:34 PM
This is the only thing that really has me scared. He missed on Keihl and Jeremy.  I hope his new guy is lightning in a bottle.

IMO yall are giving the "offensive genius" too much leniency. Hard questions should be asked as to why the QB situation at Auburn is maybe a little better than mediocre  ever since Sean White started playing with 1 leg.
Your concern is valid. And all you have to do is look at the depth chart where none of the scholarship QBs are Dual Threat types. So there looks to be a daring break toward more of a Pro-style signal caller with JJ already on campus, then adding White followed by Queen the following season. Tuberville is also on the roster.
Good question.

I think it CAN work and be serviceable with a non-dual threat. It just isn't gonna hum like we were used to seeing in 2010, 2013 and most of 2014 (I think there were some chemistry issues with Harbison and Whitehead).

I imagine in practice Jeremy looked all world and that the bets were that he would be at minimum serviceable like Chris Todd or Paul Smith. No one could have predicted fully how full tard JJ would be in game. He was on most preseason lists for anything that was good. It was simply a misfire.

Now we have Barret coming in, and as soon as shit hit the fan - you saw Gus go and grab JF3. He at least has seen the mistake and is trying to adjust.
I'll agree it was a misfire with JJ but Gus went totally away from recruiting Dual Threat QBs.
And now it's a clusterfuck!
 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 01, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
Your concern is valid. And all you have to do is look at the depth chart where none of the scholarship QBs are Dual Threat types. So there looks to be a daring break toward more of a Pro-style signal caller with JJ already on campus, then adding White followed by Queen the following season. Tuberville is also on the roster. I'll agree it was a misfire with JJ but Gus went totally away from recruiting Dual Threat QBs.
And now it's a clusterfuck!

Damn it people,...STOP!!!  He did not.  Here's from Auburn's own website.  First Jeremy Johnson

 Strong, Talented, hard-working signal-caller who was named Alabama Mr. Football for 2012 ... 3,193 yards, 31 TD passing as a senior and also rushed for 705 yards, 9 scores for Coach Billy Gresham at Carver High ... more than 8,200 career passing yards ... U.S. Army All-American Bowl ... Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Classic ... ranked No. 12 in Alabama, No. 14 QB by 247Sports ... Rivals No. 5 QB, No. 93 overall prospect ... Scout No. 24 ... PrepStar No. 90 overall, No. 7-ranked quarterback ... Montgomery Advertiser all-metro player of the year.

How about Tyler Queen?

Talented dual-threat signalcaller from Georgia's North Cobb High ... enrolled at Auburn in January ... 2,342 passing yards, 27 TD as a senior ... also rushed for 10 TD as North Cobb advanced to Class 6A playoffs ... threw for Cobb County-record 89 TD and more than 8,500 yards in high school career, both marks in the Georgia state top 10, and rushed for 43 career TD

Then you have Sean White, who was the winner of the Elite 11.  There is not a team in the country, regardless of what offense they ran that would have passed on Jeremy Johnson or Sean White coming out of HS.  Both JJ and Tyler were DUAL THREAT QUARTERBACKS!!!  Sean was just badass.  Why JJ has performed the way he has this year is the biggest question mark.  But this isn't because Gus Malzahn tried to go in a different direction.  Did he want a QB who could throw a little more?  Hell yes. We all did.  The whole fucking country thought we had the perfect fit.   
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 01, 2015, 10:35:05 PM
BTW, in his senior season of HS, Cam Newton rushed for 638 yards.  At Blinn JC, he rushed for 655. 
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: The Prowler on December 01, 2015, 11:15:58 PM
BTW, in his senior season of HS, Cam Newton rushed for 638 yards.  At Blinn JC, he rushed for 655.
I believe the problem is with the QB Coach and the system. The system apparently doesn't teach QBs how to read defenses.

I posted about this in another thread. Malzahn has a lot of success with QBs that have been taught by someone else at the JUCO level or in Cam's case at Florida (Meyer & Mullen) and then JUCO. Almost all QBs, that have been in his system for more than one year have regressed (minus Marshall, of course).

So, the answer is go the JUCO route every year or every other year depending on if the JUCO QB stays for a extra year....Championship
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 08:42:00 AM
Damn it people,...STOP!!!  He did not.  Here's from Auburn's own website.  First Jeremy Johnson

 Strong, Talented, hard-working signal-caller who was named Alabama Mr. Football for 2012 ... 3,193 yards, 31 TD passing as a senior and also rushed for 705 yards, 9 scores for Coach Billy Gresham at Carver High ... more than 8,200 career passing yards ... U.S. Army All-American Bowl ... Alabama-Mississippi All-Star Classic ... ranked No. 12 in Alabama, No. 14 QB by 247Sports ... Rivals No. 5 QB, No. 93 overall prospect ... Scout No. 24 ... PrepStar No. 90 overall, No. 7-ranked quarterback ... Montgomery Advertiser all-metro player of the year.

How about Tyler Queen?

Talented dual-threat signalcaller from Georgia's North Cobb High ... enrolled at Auburn in January ... 2,342 passing yards, 27 TD as a senior ... also rushed for 10 TD as North Cobb advanced to Class 6A playoffs ... threw for Cobb County-record 89 TD and more than 8,500 yards in high school career, both marks in the Georgia state top 10, and rushed for 43 career TD

Then you have Sean White, who was the winner of the Elite 11.  There is not a team in the country, regardless of what offense they ran that would have passed on Jeremy Johnson or Sean White coming out of HS.  Both JJ and Tyler were DUAL THREAT QUARTERBACKS!!!  Sean was just badass.  Why JJ has performed the way he has this year is the biggest question mark.  But this isn't because Gus Malzahn tried to go in a different direction.  Did he want a QB who could throw a little more?  Hell yes. We all did.  The whole fucking country thought we had the perfect fit.

Big difference in just being dual threat and able to run it in HS, and being able to run the zone read in college.

Its pretty obvious where JJ could turn the corner and take off in HS, he just doesnt have it in College. I imagine same would be true for Queen. You need a speester like NM at this level. Or a Manziel type.

Again, not for the O to work. But to work optimally, and control clock. That was our MO in both 10 and 13.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 09:04:49 AM
Big difference in just being dual threat and able to run it in HS, and being able to run the zone read in college.
True.

Tyler Queen CCV is no threat to run very far.
Sean White won the Elite 11 based on his accuracy as a passer.
Jeremy Johnson found a whole new level of panic and duress as THE GUY on the college level.

What they were considered and what they are now are much different as it applies to what we have done best with Cam and Nick. We do not see the planned QB draws or going off tackle, meshing with a back and streaking downfield (Cam) or angling toward the sideline. (Nick)

   
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 09:28:41 AM
True.

Tyler Queen CCV is no threat to run very far.
Sean White won the Elite 11 based on his accuracy as a passer.
Jeremy Johnson found a whole new level of panic and duress as THE GUY on the college level.

What they were considered and what they are now are much different as it applies to what we have done best with Cam and Nick. We do not see the planned QB draws or going off tackle, meshing with a back and streaking downfield (Cam) or angling toward the sideline. (Nick)

 

You take guys like Nick, Cam, Manziel, Tebow or even Jameis.....those guys were all cold blooded on the field. Rarely got rattled. Jeremy - that is his biggest issue. Never have I seen a guy as stone cold as NM.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 09:42:25 AM
I think the one thing I'll agree with to an extent is what Prowler said about having an experienced QB.  I'm not sold on the fact that the only way Malzahn can be successful is to have a true dual threat QB.  I believe it's obvious that's what he wants and yes, he's been recruiting for that.  But you can't just totally disregard the fact that for two years at Tulsa, his offenses were basically owning the country in every offensive category that matters without a true dual threat QB. 

It may just be reality that Malzahn's strong suit is not developing a QB.  His offenses can be as effective as any in the country as long as he has someone at the helm at least somewhat experienced in reading defenses, regardless of whether they're a true read option QB (Marshall) or more of a pocket passer (Todd, Smith etc.)       
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 09:57:15 AM
I think the one thing I'll agree with to an extent is what Prowler said about having an experienced QB.  I'm not sold on the fact that the only way Malzahn can be successful is to have a true dual threat QB.  I believe it's obvious that's what he wants and yes, he's been recruiting for that.  But you can't just totally disregard the fact that for two years at Tulsa, his offenses were basically owning the country in every offensive category that matters without a true dual threat QB. 

It may just be reality that Malzahn's strong suit is not developing a QB.  His offenses can be as effective as any in the country as long as he has someone at the helm at least somewhat experienced in reading defenses, regardless of whether they're a true read option QB (Marshall) or more of a pocket passer (Todd, Smith etc.)     

The numbers can be decieving on those comparisons though. With Todd and Smith, the O's tended to stall out on good Ds but light up weaker ones. With the true dual threat/read option - its was nearly unstoppable no matter who the opposing team was. Look at how many yards NM put on Bama both times. Good grief.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 10:30:50 AM
The numbers can be decieving on those comparisons though. With Todd and Smith, the O's tended to stall out on good Ds but light up weaker ones. With the true dual threat/read option - its was nearly unstoppable no matter who the opposing team was. Look at how many yards NM put on Bama both times. Good grief.
JR called it borderline idiocy when I suggested that Cam didn't really require a genius calling the plays and as it turned out, neither did Nick. If you have a guy who can run a draw or execute the read option the chains move and the genius gives it the ol' NASCAR sign. And when the defense begins cheating up your spotter calls down that the boundary side safety is really creeping up.

BRILLIANT!
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: WiregrassTiger on December 02, 2015, 10:39:31 AM
You take guys like Nick, Cam, Manziel, Tebow or even Jameis.....those guys were all cold blooded on the field. Rarely got rattled. Jeremy - that is his biggest issue. Never have I seen a guy as stone cold as NM.
Nick was stoned whether he be cold or hot.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 02, 2015, 10:59:02 AM
Big difference in just being dual threat and able to run it in HS, and being able to run the zone read in college.

Its pretty obvious where JJ could turn the corner and take off in HS, he just doesnt have it in College. I imagine same would be true for Queen. You need a speester like NM at this level. Or a Manziel type.

Again, not for the O to work. But to work optimally, and control clock. That was our MO in both 10 and 13.
I have seen "Heeey" Queen play, the difference with him is he isn't afraid to take a hit.  Dude rushes like a fullback, wish he hadn't had the injury/surgery because I think he would have played this year.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 11:00:19 AM
I have seen "Heeey" Queen play, the difference with him is he isn't afraid to take a hit.  Dude rushes like a fullback, wish he hadn't had the injury/surgery because I think he would have played this year.

Plus, he has cool hair.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 02, 2015, 11:01:00 AM
Tyler Queen CCV is no threat to run very far.
wrong
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: CCTAU on December 02, 2015, 11:04:56 AM
You don't have to have a QB take it to the house on the option. Just read it correctly and get yards when it's open!
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: JR4AU on December 02, 2015, 12:21:11 PM
Gus's system will not work without a dual threat/mobile QB.

Wrong
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 02, 2015, 12:58:38 PM
Wrong
Hey that's my schtick
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on December 02, 2015, 01:08:54 PM
Hey that's my schtick

Wrong
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 01:45:54 PM
wrong
Sorry but I'm basing this solely on the last pics I saw of him...and he looked unstoppable around any dinner table.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 02:58:32 PM
I can't enable my emoticon usage right now, but if I could, I'd use that little Chizik head scratcher.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 03:21:57 PM
I can't enable my emoticon usage right now, but if I could, I'd use that little Chizik head scratcher.

If nuts and bolts are for you, then the unstoppable force of a dynamic bicycle would be your best bet for the higher end parties where there is much to do about a lot of things unsaid. Especially shoes and the like.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Buzz Killington on December 02, 2015, 03:29:14 PM
I can't enable my emoticon usage right now, but if I could, I'd use that little Chizik head scratcher.
*snickers*
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Godfather on December 02, 2015, 03:32:28 PM
Sorry but I'm basing this solely on the last pics I saw of him...and he looked unstoppable around any dinner table.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPPG7rpUcAE2rVR.jpg:large)

:huh:
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 03:39:41 PM
*snickers*
Queen is king sized.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 03:50:12 PM
If nuts and bolts are for you, then the unstoppable force of a dynamic bicycle would be your best bet for the higher end parties where there is much to do about a lot of things unsaid. Especially shoes and the like.

Dude, that was deep.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 04:05:08 PM
Dude, that was deep.
Pfft, he's an amateur.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: jmar on December 02, 2015, 04:07:48 PM
And a charlaton although I'm unsure of the spelling.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 04:20:56 PM
Dude, that was deep.


Oh and did I tell you about the gravy? Stupendous way of showing us and not to mention it was quite hard to navigate but opening doors is a good way to start. To the mattresses!
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 04:22:59 PM

Oh and did I tell you about the gravy? Stupendous way of showing us and not to mention it was quite hard to navigate but opening doors is a good way to start. To the mattresses!

Wait...To the mattresses?  The awarding of points for this reference depends on whether you are quoting The Godfather or You've Got Mail.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: GH2001 on December 02, 2015, 05:15:09 PM
Wait...To the mattresses?  The awarding of points for this reference depends on whether you are quoting The Godfather or You've Got Mail.

Of course you know it's Vito

But I'm gonna have to ask gf to deduct them from yours just for knowing its in the other one.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: Snaggletiger on December 02, 2015, 05:28:35 PM
Of course you know it's Vito

But I'm gonna have to ask gf to deduct them from yours just for knowing its in the other one.

They say that in You've Got Mail? Never knew that.  Sooooo...how bout' that SEC Championship game, huh?
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on December 10, 2015, 09:56:12 AM
Interesting.....

https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/report-auburn-oc-a-potential-target-for-tulane-head-coaching-vacancy

Quote
Auburn already lost its defensive coordinator to a head coaching job, but could the Tigers lose both top assistants in the same offseason?

Offensive coordinator Rhett Lashlee is considered a target for the head coaching job at Tulane, according to Scott Kushner of The Advocate. The other candidates, according to Kushner, are Oklahoma State offensive coordinator Mike Yurcich and Appalachian State head coach Scott Satterfield.

Tulane athletic director Troy Dannen said he has already interviewed one person for the job, and has four others planned, ESPN’s Brett McMurphy reported. Dannen fired Curtis Johnson after the regular season. Johnson went 15-34 in four years with Tulane.

Lashlee, 32, has worked under Auburn coach Guz Malzahn at Arkansas State, was a graduate assistant with Arkansas and spent two seasons (2009-10) on The Plains in a previous stint at Auburn. According to a USA Today database, Lashlee had a base salary of $600,000 in 2015, which is $1 million less than departed defensive coordinator Will Muschamp and less than what offensive coordinators at LSU (Cam Cameron), Alabama (Lane Kiffin), UGA (Brian Schottenheimer) and Missouri (Josh Henson) made.

Lashlee was also reported Wednesday to be interviewing for the offensive coordinator job at Texas, but multiple reporters quickly refuted the report.
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: CCTAU on December 10, 2015, 02:38:29 PM
Interesting.....

https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/report-auburn-oc-a-potential-target-for-tulane-head-coaching-vacancy (https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/report-auburn-oc-a-potential-target-for-tulane-head-coaching-vacancy)

I thought this guy got the job:

http://fansided.com/2015/12/09/tcu-co-oc-doug-meacham-new-tulane-head-coach/
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: The Prowler on December 10, 2015, 02:46:42 PM
Interesting.....

https://www.seccountry.com/auburn/report-auburn-oc-a-potential-target-for-tulane-head-coaching-vacancy
(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/So-Youre-Telling-Me-Theres-a-Chance-In-Dumb-and-Dumber-Gif.gif)
Title: Re: New OC in Theory....
Post by: djsimp on December 10, 2015, 02:59:52 PM
I thought this guy got the job:

http://fansided.com/2015/12/09/tcu-co-oc-doug-meacham-new-tulane-head-coach/

May be. Looks like fansided link was posted two hours after the other.