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The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: CCTAU on February 09, 2015, 11:43:36 AM
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Well we know that today Alabama is supposed to issue same sex marriage licenses. Some of us don't care, other of us know it is wrong and is allowing the legitimization of a sinful lifestyle.
There are those on both sides. I am on the anti-side, but I do not hate or want to crush these individuals out of existence. I think it is OK to say "you are wrong and you are loved" at the same time.
Here is an enlightening article not full of hate on the subject:
http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-homosexuality-is-not-like-other-sins (http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/why-homosexuality-is-not-like-other-sins)
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What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?
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What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?
Sin is very clearly defined all throughout the bible. And Jesus continually rebuked sin. He also rebuked the sinner if the sinner did not repent from the sin. He did not reside or continue to reside with those who continued in a sinful lifestyle.
If you are looking for the "don't do it" passage written in red, I think you misunderstand his purpose.
The article does a good job putting all of this into perspective.
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WT believes that homersexuality is a sin. WT also knows that coveting yo wives is a sin too, along with quite a few other transgressions WT has participated in.
But, I do not deny that I don't agree with the lifestyle, however, I fully support you gays in living the life that you want. So long as you don't pinch me in the ass. I will knock a pop knot on your head.
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I say let everyone have the chance to be miserable.
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But, I do not deny that I don't agree with the lifestyle, however, I fully support you gays in living the life that you want. So long as you don't pinch me in the ass. I will knock a pop knot on your head.
Don't flatter yourself.
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Jesus did not address teh gayness. Paul did but in the same breath, told people to be kind to their slaves. There are tons of instructions from Paul, a mortal man, that are referencing the issues of the times. And in that particular time and place, you would be stoned to death for washing your camel on Sunday or saying "That lovely piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah."
I consider myself a Christian but not one that takes every word of the Bible literally, especially when 90% of it is man's interpretation of how they thought things should be during a time period and an area of the world where thinking and things in general were and still are as F'd up as it gets. Jesus laid out a pretty simple plan for living a Christian life, which all centers around treating everyone around you the way you want to be treated yourself.
That's about as deep as I get. And while there are a lot of issues in the world that I take a stand against, this isn't one of them. I don't think it's a lifestyle choice and as for it being a sin, that's not my concern. Just because Paul said don't have ghey butt secks, doesn't mean that's what God or his Son thinks. As for them having the opportunity to get married and be entitled to the same rights as any other married couple, well, that doesn't concern me in the least either. It doesn't affect me in any way. It doesn't infringe on any of my rights and as far as I can tell, doesn't trample on any rights any of you have.
I just don't see the problem. It's not for me to judge and if it truly turns out to be a sin that will keep someone out of heaven, then I guess that's their problem. If you're murdering people or stealing from folks or selling drugs to kids etc. I got a problem with it. If you're attracted to the ghey butt secks, whatever.
BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.
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I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today. I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office. Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music.
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I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today. I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office. Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music.
You capitalist bastard. I like it.
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Jesus did not address teh gayness. Paul did but in the same breath, told people to be kind to their slaves. There are tons of instructions from Paul, a mortal man, that are referencing the issues of the times. And in that particular time and place, you would be stoned to death for washing your camel on Sunday or saying "That lovely piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah."
I consider myself a Christian but not one that takes every word of the Bible literally, especially when 90% of it is man's interpretation of how they thought things should be during a time period and an area of the world where thinking and things in general were and still are as F'd up as it gets. Jesus laid out a pretty simple plan for living a Christian life, which all centers around treating everyone around you the way you want to be treated yourself.
That's about as deep as I get. And while there are a lot of issues in the world that I take a stand against, this isn't one of them. I don't think it's a lifestyle choice and as for it being a sin, that's not my concern. Just because Paul said don't have ghey butt secks, doesn't mean that's what God or his Son thinks. As for them having the opportunity to get married and be entitled to the same rights as any other married couple, well, that doesn't concern me in the least either. It doesn't affect me in any way. It doesn't infringe on any of my rights and as far as I can tell, doesn't trample on any rights any of you have.
I just don't see the problem. It's not for me to judge and if it truly turns out to be a sin that will keep someone out of heaven, then I guess that's their problem. If you're murdering people or stealing from folks or selling drugs to kids etc. I got a problem with it. If you're attracted to the ghey butt secks, whatever.
BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.
You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass. You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.
Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on? Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest?
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21: "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men.
And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh." To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.)
I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other. I really don't. I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit. What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.
It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian.
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I'm pissed I didn't plan ahead for today. I should have taken off and handed out business cards at the probate office. Lord knows how many gay couples are about to have outdoor, hippy weddings and could use an instrumental guitarist for their ceremony music.
They may not have hired you with you not being gay and all. Cause you know they have a right not to.
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What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.
That seems to be the new wave of live and let live.
It matters not how you wish to try to rewrite the bible, sin is still sin. And on many occasions Jesus rebuked sin. he never wavered in that.
I have no problem giving the gays a way to have to same legal options as married people, I just don't want marriage to be redefined so as to make the gays feel their lifestyle is now accepted and legitimate. It is not.
And when someone wants to marry more than one person, allow that also. If three lesbians all want to be married and enjoy the benefits of filing jointly, print up that new box on the IRS forms. If I want to marry my cousin, sign that form.
If someone can choose to marry the same sex, then a lot more options should be open to those who FEEL they are right also.
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You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass. You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.
Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on? Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest?
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21: "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men.
And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh." To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.)
I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other. I really don't. I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit. What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.
It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian.
I base my faith on the way Jesus taught us to live. You spoke of God's original design, before sin entered the world. That's a starting point of where some of the Bible needs to taken with the proverbial grain of salt for me. There's nothing more perfect than God. He's all-knowing, all-powerful, all everything. But if we're to believe the story of creation, which I do believe in creation, just not that story...we're to believe that God's very first, and only stab at making man was a colossal failure. He puts the first man and woman on the earth and gives them one rule. Don't eat an apple from that tree. Then a snake says it's okay. So they do. From that point on, the snake is doomed to slither around on his belly (Ever ask yourself how it was getting around before?) and mankind is doomed to sin, sickness, plague, famine, war etc. God created something. Then one mistake by that creation pisses him off so bad that He scraps the whole idea. You folks are on your own from this point. Oh, and you're nekkid.
Okay. Got it. That goes against everything that Christians believe God is. He couldn't forgive them?
Not saying I don't believe the Bible. Not saying that at all. I believe Jesus was/is his Son and he was sent to show us how to live. That's something real.. Something concrete. But people who claim that every word in the Bible is from the Holy Spirit are cherry-picking more than I am. Choosing to ignore or try to explain away things in there that are clearly not inspired by God and are a byproduct or even an indictment of the events, times and places in which they were written.
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Here's the only thing that matters and we've addressed this before.
We ALL sin. We are all horrible, base, crass, vulgar beings. We break rules every single day. The difference is we are all trying to do better.
I don't have any problem with gays worshiping or coming to church. Same as with adulterers, thieves, rapists, murderers or anybody else who's broken and looking for answers.
The problem is when someone comes to the church (or into my life) and says essentially "Fuck you, I'm doing this and you HAVE to change the rules and accept me the way I am."
I have a private club and one of the rules of membership is you have to wear ties to attend functions. Some assclown shows up in a sweatshirt. Am I supposed to change the rules because that person doesn't like them?
The biggest problem I have is that we are now refusing to acknowledge that homosexuality is wrong, that "hey, I'm a dude but I'd rather have a vagina" is wrong, that all manner of other perversions are wrong. I'm offended by people who insist that everyone has to accept their personal perversions as "normal."
You bring up slavery like it's some big alpha-omega bugaboo that answers everything. "People in the Bible had slaves, so DUH, Bible sucks bro!"
Guess what? The prohibition against slavery is man-made. Slavery was a part of life for thousands of years. It still is a part of life for many societies. Biblical references toward slavery are intended to show people how to properly treat those who serve them. Not to condone it -- because slavery is a man-made institution -- but to guide men in treating other men in the right way.
So what there were slaves and the Bible tells people how to treat them. That was significantly relevant until the last 150 years (which is the blink of a historical eye and not relevant long-term).
The Bible addresses things as they are, not as we make them. Long after our society has passed away there will be slaves. Better that it's a part of the Bible than not.
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The problem is when someone comes to the church (or into my life) and says essentially "Fuck you, I'm doing this and you HAVE to change the rules and accept me the way I am."
I guess we never should have gotten rid of segregation. Afterall, once rules are made they should never be changed. No matter how much sense it makes.
I have a private club and one of the rules of membership is you have to wear ties to attend functions. Some assclown shows up in a sweatshirt. Am I supposed to change the rules because that person doesn't like them?
But we're not talking about a private church or a private club. We're talking about the government denying a group of people basic rights based on nothing more than their sexual preference. It's akin to denying interracial marriage in my opinion.
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BTW, I'm married, have 2 kids and I'm 54.
Why did you feel the need to put this at the end of this long ass post? It just kind if looked out of place. Unless you are trying to hook up with other men for gay butt sex? I guess?
gays blocked from heaven? I haven't read that. I also haven't read where my sin is any less than Charles Manson's, a serial killer or a lawyer. It's hard for me to understand how a great guy like myself is no better but apparently that's the way it works. At least the way that I understand it.
I don't have a problem with preachers pointing out sin. Just because I've been known to drink too much wine, look upon your wife in a seductive manner (just using this as an example probably) doesn't mean that I should excuse myself and pretend I think it's ok. Is it a better sin than gay butt sex? Not the way I understand it.
That's why I'm thinking there is more made out of this than warranted. There is plenty of sin to target. There is no need to call in the justice department for fear that you gays have a monopoly.
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I guess we never should have gotten rid of segregation. Afterall, once rules are made they should never be changed. No matter how much sense it makes.
But we're not talking about a private church or a private club. We're talking about the government denying a group of people basic rights based on nothing more than their sexual preference. It's akin to denying interracial marriage in my opinion.
You've suffered brain damage in your absence.
Segregation = man-made situation. No biblical basis.
And we are talking about churches. The term "marriage" brings that into it.
Legalize sin? Might as well condone all the rest, too. Let's make murder legal. There are biblically based laws against that. Obviously those are old and out of date in today's progressive society. Make it legal and I'll go on a killing spree tomorrow.
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What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality?
I am pretty sure that Jesus was about loving each other...but I could be wrong...
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You just want in on the gay divorce tidal wave that will sweep through the Wiregrass. You're a real forward-thinker, and I applaud you for it.
Regarding your view on the Bible - if you believe that the majority of Scripture is fallible then what do you have to ground your faith on? Do you just cherry-pick the parts that you like and are palatable and skip the rest?
The Bible itself attests to its own divine nature in 2 Peter 1:20-21: "Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." The bottom line is there really was only one author of the Bible - the Holy Spirit working through men.
And you're right - Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. However, he did say in Mark 10:6-8 that "...from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh." To me that seems like a pretty solid affirmation for God's original design for marriage in Genesis 2 (before sin entered the world, mind you.)
I don't mind gay people wanting to get married to each other. I really don't. I don't agree with it and I will never condone it, but they are free to live their lives as they see fit. What I can't stand, though, is people who try to say that the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality, or that the Bible doesn't say it's a sin.
It's a personal issue for me as well - my sister-in-law is a happily married lesbian.
I have a hard time believing that every single one of the people responsible for writings in the bible were 100% Godly men. We have seen agendas throughout the church far before Jesus was born.
I believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the only way to heaven is through him. However, I have a hard time believing in any mortal man. Mortal man are sinners and mortal man "wrote" the bible. I am not sure how anyone can believe that everything in there is 100% from God when none of us really knew any of these men's hearts. The only thing you know is what you have read...from other men...
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I have a hard time believing that every single one of the people responsible for writings in the bible were 100% Godly men. We have seen agendas throughout the church far before Jesus was born.
I believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the only way to heaven is through him. However, I have a hard time believing in any mortal man. Mortal man are sinners and mortal man "wrote" the bible. I am not sure how anyone can believe that everything in there is 100% from God when none of us really knew any of these men's hearts. The only thing you know is what you have read...from other men...
Hmm. Faith. You missed it.
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Hmm. Faith. You missed it.
I have faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I don't put a lot of faith in man. Too many assholes that will hide behind Jesus and put whatever agenda they want out their as the "word of God".
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That seems to be the new wave of live and let live.
It matters not how you wish to try to rewrite the bible, sin is still sin. And on many occasions Jesus rebuked sin. he never wavered in that.
I have no problem giving the gays a way to have to same legal options as married people, I just don't want marriage to be redefined so as to make the gays feel their lifestyle is now accepted and legitimate. It is not.
And when someone wants to marry more than one person, allow that also. If three lesbians all want to be married and enjoy the benefits of filing jointly, print up that new box on the IRS forms. If I want to marry my cousin, sign that form.
If someone can choose to marry the same sex, then a lot more options should be open to those who FEEL they are right also.
And another thing, I am not 100% convinced that being gay is a "choice". I am not 100% that you are gay by birth either though. How can I tell if someone is truly attracted to or in love with the same sex? If I don't know...how can you guys be so sure? So if there is a chance that a person is born gay, how is it a sin? Because the bible says so? Is that the only way?
There are just too many variables for me to make a complete judgement about people that I truly don't know their hearts. I think that is what Jesus would want me to do. Love everyone and not judge them if there is a chance their hearts are in the right place.
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That's why I'm thinking there is more made out of this than warranted. There is plenty of sin to target. There is no need to call in the justice department for fear that you gays have a monopoly.
That is true. There is plenty of sin to target. That is why we are given the gift of repentance. We know we will slip up. Its in our nature. But if you slip up on a daily basis, was there ever repentance? Did you ever understand and truly repent? Repentance is not a get out of jail free card as a priest (and many others it seems) would have you to think.
It it makes us feel good and we enjoy it, does that mean I must have been born this way and I should be able to live how I want, even if it goes against God? That is the question. All most people are doing now with homosexuality is trying to bargain with God on what he really meant. I've found that when telling God what he meant instead of searching for his meaning, we get onto t bit of trouble.
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It it makes us feel good and we enjoy it, does that mean I must have been born this way and I should be able to live how I want, even if it goes against God? That is the question. All most people are doing now with homosexuality is trying to bargain with God on what he really meant. I've found that when telling God what he meant instead of searching for his meaning, we get onto t bit of trouble.
How the fuck can you even make this argument? So gay people just want to feel good? That's the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life...
Most gay people are just bargaining with God? Fucking stupid.
You have found that telling God what he meant gets you in trouble? Aren't you doing that now? How do you freaking know??? The irony in this statement alone is baffling to me...
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I have faith in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I don't put a lot of faith in man. Too many assholes that will hide behind Jesus and put whatever agenda they want out their as the "word of God".
I agree with WE that man can pick and choose. And I've seen some things that I didn't understand, that seemed conflicting if someone chose to look at it that way. At the same time, I do believe that there were/are prophets. I'm a long way from being a bible scholar but I think that Paul explained the mark of an apostle in II Chorinthians, is signs, miracles and wonders. In other words, I believe that there were men that were inspired by God and that God spoke through them. That has a lot to do with the Christian faith.
I don't fully understand the particulars of who decided what books made it into the bible. Council of Trent? And, why the Apocrypha was left out of the Protestant bible. But, I still believe that it was divinely inspired. That's why it's called faith. I certainly can't prove anything.
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And another thing, I am not 100% convinced that being gay is a "choice". I am not 100% that you are gay by birth either though. How can I tell if someone is truly attracted to or in love with the same sex? If I don't know...how can you guys be so sure? So if there is a chance that a person is born gay, how is it a sin? Because the bible says so? Is that the only way?
There are just too many variables for me to make a complete judgement about people that I truly don't know their hearts. I think that is what Jesus would want me to do. Love everyone and not judge them if there is a chance their hearts are in the right place.
If the bible is not true, then no sin exists and we are all good. You may as well wait on the mother wheel to pick you up. There are too many things in the Bible that are connected throughout its writings to be conjured up by man. You cannot get two men to agree on anything, yet, you want to think that many men throughout history have agreed to keep the flow of the whole thing? Like I said, faith. If the guide book is wrong, then so is the premise of God.
And in keeping with that, I have to believe that what God says is sin, remains sin. We cannot rewrite what has been written to allow for our lifestyles. And there are many perverse lifestyles out there that people give in to their desires. Most of us look at those and think poorly of it. Why is it now that one of those lifestyles is being accepted and not all of the others.
Sin ans Satan will always have access to this world. Our fight is to daily try to keep that sin from winning (with God's help), not to give in to it ans say if it feels right, it must be good.
Once gain, God is love, but he is oh so much more than that. And hell does exist. Evil does exist. And there will be consequences for our actions. Will we be judged as a whole(as Sodom and Gomorrah) or as individuals (Lott). That is up to God and how we each serve him, I guess. But he gave us a guide as to how the consequences come to fruition. I'd rather not be in the Sodom and Gomorrah camp when that day comes.
And since when did pointing out sin and holding each other accountable for that sin become JUDGING? I'll tell you when. When the left taught you that if you say anything against the perverted left, you are judging. It is not so. Accountability is NOT judging.
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If the bible is not true, then no sin exists and we are all good. You may as well wait on the mother wheel to pick you up. There are too many things in the Bible that are connected throughout its writings to be conjured up by man. You cannot get two men to agree on anything, yet, you want to think that many men throughout history have agreed to keep the flow of the whole thing? Like I said, faith. If the guide book is wrong, then so is the premise of God.
And in keeping with that, I have to believe that what God says is sin, remains sin. We cannot rewrite what has been written to allow for our lifestyles. And there are many perverse lifestyles out there that people give in to their desires. Most of us look at those and think poorly of it. Why is it now that one of those lifestyles is being accepted and not all of the others.
Sin ans Satan will always have access to this world. Our fight is to daily try to keep that sin from winning (with God's help), not to give in to it ans say if it feels right, it must be good.
Once gain, God is love, but he is oh so much more than that. And hell does exist. Evil does exist. And there will be consequences for our actions. Will we be judged as a whole(as Sodom and Gomorrah) or as individuals (Lott). That is up to God and how we each serve him, I guess. But he gave us a guide as to how the consequences come to fruition. I'd rather not be in the Sodom and Gomorrah camp when that day comes.
And since when did pointing out sin and holding each other accountable for that sin become JUDGING? I'll tell you when. When the left taught you that if you say anything against the perverted left, you are judging. It is not so. Accountability is NOT judging.
My problem is not with calling out sin. It's with people saying that their sin is less than other's sin. It has nothing to do with left and right, imo. Hypocrisy isn't penned up on just one side.
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If I was a gay man, me and WE would be having some nekkid time. But in all seriousness, his take on the Bible being written by mortal man is exactly what I was trying to convey earlier about taking into consideration the times, places and events that existed when it was written. Plus, Ogre asked the question of whether I cherry pick the parts that I want to use. I gave the example of Paul speaking on slavery. Here are several versions from Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
New Living Translation
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
English Standard Version
Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
New American Standard Bible
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;
King James Bible
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
I have a question. All X jokes aside, does anyone here believe that slavery of any kind is acceptable or that the God you worship encourages or even condones it? I'll answer that. Of course not. But these are supposedly instructions from Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit, just as much as him instructing the Church not to engage in the ghey butt secks. He didn't say not to enslave people. He didn't say it was wrong. He didn't say it's a sin. He instructed enslaved people to be obedient to their worldly masters just as they are obedient to Christ.
And spare me the Greek translations of "slaves" and what he really meant. That was just something that was just as acceptable in those times as stoning someone to death for adultery.
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If the bible is not true, then no sin exists and we are all good. You may as well wait on the mother wheel to pick you up. There are too many things in the Bible that are connected throughout its writings to be conjured up by man. You cannot get two men to agree on anything, yet, you want to think that many men throughout history have agreed to keep the flow of the whole thing? Like I said, faith. If the guide book is wrong, then so is the premise of God.
And in keeping with that, I have to believe that what God says is sin, remains sin. We cannot rewrite what has been written to allow for our lifestyles. And there are many perverse lifestyles out there that people give in to their desires. Most of us look at those and think poorly of it. Why is it now that one of those lifestyles is being accepted and not all of the others.
Sin ans Satan will always have access to this world. Our fight is to daily try to keep that sin from winning (with God's help), not to give in to it ans say if it feels right, it must be good.
Once gain, God is love, but he is oh so much more than that. And hell does exist. Evil does exist. And there will be consequences for our actions. Will we be judged as a whole(as Sodom and Gomorrah) or as individuals (Lott). That is up to God and how we each serve him, I guess. But he gave us a guide as to how the consequences come to fruition. I'd rather not be in the Sodom and Gomorrah camp when that day comes.
And since when did pointing out sin and holding each other accountable for that sin become JUDGING? I'll tell you when. When the left taught you that if you say anything against the perverted left, you are judging. It is not so. Accountability is NOT judging.
Southern Baptist?
Btw - more went on with S&G than just the gaydom. Drinking, living it up, etc. Just sayin...
And you're dead wrong on the judging dude. Only 1 can judge in that manner (in regards to sin and what will happen to someone as a result). Although some organized religion denominations feel it their duty even though it's not.
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And spare me the Greek translations of "slaves" and what he really meant. That was just something that was just as acceptable in those times as stoning someone to death for adultery.
You can't spare the original translation. You have to read the Bible in the context it was written. In the days of Paul, people could willingly sell themselves into "slavery" as a bondservant (i.e. - the Engilsh Standard Version you quoted). That meant they would be in debt so high that they couldn't pay it all off, so they would work for someone as their "bondservant" until the debt was paid in full. It's not quite the same as sailing Africans over to Rome and selling them off as subhuman. Slavery in those days wasn't based on race, it was based on economics.
I've been studying the Bible for almost 4 years now. I've read it from cover-to-cover 3 times and am on my 4th. The more I read it the more I understand it. You can't read a passage like that out of Ephesians and think it applies to 1800's America. The two just don't compute.
One of the over-arching messages of Christianity (and the Bible) is that we are all slaves to sin. The only place freedom can truly be found is in Jesus Christ.
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So how does everyone feel about a non married straight couple shacking up? Does it bother you as much as two dudes shacking up? It must, since a sin is a sin, correct? Those that do that are taking just a big of shit on the sanctity of marriage that you want to hold so dear. Why not make a law against cohabitation? I think we should. It will stop them from sinning if we legislate peoples morality.
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You've suffered brain damage in your absence.
Segregation = man-made situation. No biblical basis.
If we took everything the Bible said as law, word-for-word, then the current world would be a pretty messed up place. Let's be honest, the Bible in it's entirety is not applicable to how the world has evolved. Our laws should not be 100% based on only the Bible. Common sense has to (and does in most instances) factor in.
Legalize sin? Might as well condone all the rest, too. Let's make murder legal. There are biblically based laws against that. Obviously those are old and out of date in today's progressive society. Make it legal and I'll go on a killing spree tomorrow.
You're taking an all or none approach to it just for argument sake. Obviously outlawing murder is in the interest of public order. There are things that make good sense outside of the framework of the Bible. I'm not sure how allowing same-sex marriages would threaten public order. Sometimes laws should evolve with time and civilization. It's no longer legal to walk around naked in public, for example.
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And we have 6 more weeks of this until spring practice starts. Yea!
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If the bible is not true, then no sin exists and we are all good. You may as well wait on the mother wheel to pick you up. There are too many things in the Bible that are connected throughout its writings to be conjured up by man. You cannot get two men to agree on anything, yet, you want to think that many men throughout history have agreed to keep the flow of the whole thing? Like I said, faith. If the guide book is wrong, then so is the premise of God.
And in keeping with that, I have to believe that what God says is sin, remains sin. We cannot rewrite what has been written to allow for our lifestyles. And there are many perverse lifestyles out there that people give in to their desires. Most of us look at those and think poorly of it. Why is it now that one of those lifestyles is being accepted and not all of the others.
I never said that the bible isn't true.
I never said that the bible is only partially true.
I said that the bible was written by man, and some men may not have their hearts in the right place. And because of that, how I am I supposed to tell a dude that may honestly be attracted to and love another dude as we would a woman, that he is sinning.
I don't understand it. I wouldn't do it and quite honestly can't even remotely imagine being intimate with another guy...but what if they were born like that? What if they truly love another guy like you love your wife. What is so fucking wrong with that? What if they love Jesus and worship him every day, they just love another man. Who are you to say that it is wrong? Who are you to say they weren't born that way if they truly feel that they were?
I am just not comfortable saying that gay people shouldn't be this way or that way because I don't know. I guess it just basically boils down to that I personally believe that true gay people are born that way. Not the Bi-Sexuals that want to have sex with everyone, but those that truly love members of their own sex as you would love your wife. And if I believe that they were born that way, how can I believe that God would cast them away since he created them like that?
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You can't spare the original translation. You have to read the Bible in the context it was written. In the days of Paul, people could willingly sell themselves into "slavery" as a bondservant (i.e. - the Engilsh Standard Version you quoted). That meant they would be in debt so high that they couldn't pay it all off, so they would work for someone as their "bondservant" until the debt was paid in full. It's not quite the same as sailing Africans over to Rome and selling them off as subhuman. Slavery in those days wasn't based on race, it was based on economics.
I've been studying the Bible for almost 4 years now. I've read it from cover-to-cover 3 times and am on my 4th. The more I read it the more I understand it. You can't read a passage like that out of Ephesians and think it applies to 1800's America. The two just don't compute.
One of the over-arching messages of Christianity (and the Bible) is that we are all slaves to sin. The only place freedom can truly be found is in Jesus Christ.
Bingo. Exactly what I've been saying. And there was waaayyy more to slavery in that time than just being a bondservant and paying off a debt. But even in that example, you're saying it's okay to instruct someone to be obedient to your earthly master with fear and trembling? Those were Paul's Holy Spirit led instructions.
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Those were Paul's Holy Spirit led instructions.
You faithless bastard.
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I am just not comfortable saying that gay people shouldn't be this way or that way because I don't know. I guess it just basically boils down to that I personally believe that true gay people are born that way. Not the Bi-Sexuals that want to have sex with everyone, but those that truly love members of their own sex as you would love your wife. And if I believe that they were born that way, how can I believe that God would cast them away since he created them like that?
I do not believe it is genetic. There are many other choices that people make that are not genetic. The human mind is tempted with all sorts of thoughts and opportunities that might bring the mind pleasure. Just because I do not see homosexuality as a stimulating course to take, does not mean others do not. We all have thoughts enter our minds at one time or the other, but we do not act on these thoughts. Some people are always searching for that one thing to fulfill them. They do act on those thoughts.
The problem with saying that it is genetic without proof, is that now we can claim just about anything goes, because "I feel" it!
And I truly am alarmed at the number of supposedly believers that seem to think it is OK to rewrite the word of God.
Yes, only one can judge. But you have a skewed definition of judging. If someone points to me and says, "That is not biblical and you might need to stop", they did not judge me. They called me out to be accountable for my actions according to the word. That is not judging. You have bought into the left's lies.
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I do not believe it is genetic. There are many other choices that people make that are not genetic. The human mind is tempted with all sorts of thoughts and opportunities that might bring the mind pleasure. Just because I do not see homosexuality as a stimulating course to take, does not mean others do not. We all have thoughts enter our minds at one time or the other, but we do not act on these thoughts. Some people are always searching for that one thing to fulfill them. They do act on those thoughts.
The problem with saying that it is genetic without proof, is that now we can claim just about anything goes, because "I feel" it!
And I truly am alarmed at the number of supposedly believers that seem to think it is OK to rewrite the word of God.
Yes, only one can judge. But you have a skewed definition of judging. If someone points to me and says, "That is not biblical and you might need to stop", they did not judge me. They called me out to be accountable for my actions according to the word. That is not judging. You have bought into the left's lies.
Do you think you know everything about the human body or genetics? Are you comfortable saying that you have enough knowledge about scientific DNA that you are 100% comfortable telling someone that what they feel is only a choice?
Because that is fucking dumb...
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Do you think you know everything about the human body or genetics? Are you comfortable saying that you have enough knowledge about scientific DNA that you are 100% comfortable telling someone that what they feel is only a choice?
Because that is fucking dumb...
That's an interesting thought process. Because you think it is genetic, that should be given more credence....
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That's an interesting thought process. Because you think it is genetic, that should be given more credence....
I said I don't know. I am not comfortable telling someone that truly thinks they are attracted to someone of the same sex as I am my wife, that they are wrong. It just doesn't seem right.
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That's what I have been saying the whole time...
Except for the fact that there are scientists working around the clock trying to prove it is genetic, and yet they cannot.
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Except for the fact that there are scientists working around the clock trying to prove it is genetic, and yet they cannot.
There are scientists working around the clock trying to cure cancer, and yet they can not.
There are scientist working around the clock trying to clone a human, and yet they can not.
There are scientist working around the clock trying to harness the power of nuclear energy, and have yet only reached the tip of the iceberg.
So yeah...that argument is dumb...
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Are you trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
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There are scientists working around the clock trying to cure cancer, and yet they can not. Irrelevant. Cancer has already been identified as a genetic mutation.
There are scientist working around the clock trying to clone a human, and yet they can not. Cloning of humans is against the law. I'm not sure which scientists you think are working on it....
There are scientist working around the clock trying to harness the power of nuclear energy, and have yet only reached the tip of the iceberg. Irrelevant. not a genetic mutation.
So yeah...that argument is dumb...
You call a llot of things you don't agree with "dumb". That's dumb.
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Are you trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Let's not start a holy war Harris.
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Irrelevant. Cancer has already been identified as a genetic mutation.
At one time, causes of Cancer were a mystery. At one time they didn't know what it was or how exactly to identify it because they didn't have the technology. There is still plenty they don't know about it.
Cloning of humans is against the law. I'm not sure which scientists you think are working on it....
There are actually no laws against cloning in the US. There is plenty of research happening in regard to cloning.
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At one time, causes of Cancer were a mystery. At one time they didn't know what it was or how exactly to identify it because they didn't have the technology. There is still plenty they don't know about it.
There are actually no laws against cloning in the US. There is plenty of research happening in regard to cloning.
So you are saying that we have mapped all other genetic defects, but the gay gene is just so darn elusive...
I said HUMAN cloning. And if you think there are no laws against it, try it and let people know you are trying it...I realize you are trying to find that perfect goat and keep a steady stream of them, but humans are a different story.
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Are you trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
Hey bartender, JoBu needs a refill!
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So you are saying that we have mapped all other genetic defects, but the gay gene is just so darn elusive...
I said HUMAN cloning. And if you think there are no laws against it, try it and let people know you are trying it...I realize you are trying to find that perfect goat and keep a steady stream of them, but humans are a different story.
I never said it was a genetic defect. You said that.
You believe what you want to believe and I will as well.
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We're dealing with a lot of shit
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This whole forum is going to hell anyways, come ride the bus with us.
Signed,
Godfather, Uncle Sani, Pell City
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This whole forum is going to hell anyways, come ride the bus with us.
Signed,
Godfather, Uncle Sani, Pell City
Booze, hookers and rock n roll?
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If I was a gay man, me and WE would be having some nekkid time. But in all seriousness, his take on the Bible being written by mortal man is exactly what I was trying to convey earlier about taking into consideration the times, places and events that existed when it was written. Plus, Ogre asked the question of whether I cherry pick the parts that I want to use. I gave the example of Paul speaking on slavery. Here are several versions from Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
New Living Translation
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
English Standard Version
Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ,
New American Standard Bible
Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;
King James Bible
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
I have a question. All X jokes aside, does anyone here believe that slavery of any kind is acceptable or that the God you worship encourages or even condones it? I'll answer that. Of course not. But these are supposedly instructions from Paul inspired by the Holy Spirit, just as much as him instructing the Church not to engage in the ghey butt secks. He didn't say not to enslave people. He didn't say it was wrong. He didn't say it's a sin. He instructed enslaved people to be obedient to their worldly masters just as they are obedient to Christ.
And spare me the Greek translations of "slaves" and what he really meant. That was just something that was just as acceptable in those times as stoning someone to death for adultery.
I already answered this. Slavery existed. Has existed for most of history. Still exists. Will exist for centuries to come in some areas.
Slavery is a man-made institution. It's not out of the realm for the prophets to address it. It makes perfect sense that it would be. Is owning slaves a sin? It absolutely is not. That's the law of man. Treating them poorly? Harming them? Yeah. Maybe then it would be sinful. But slavery was an ordinary thing in the time of the writings. Of course there would be divine guidance on how to treat a fellow human being in that social constraint.
Are all slave owners unrepentant sinners and doomed to hell? Nope.
There are laws regarding slavery in the constitution. Guess we should just chunk that shit too.
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Here is my 3 dollar bill opinion.
Religion as we know is dynamic in diversity on a global scale. I'm a Christian. I respect others who are zealous in different faiths. I respect the numerous interpretations within the Christian faith.
Religion is dynamic...it is changing. There will always be the foundation philosophies/morals/ truths that will not change as it's the basis of humanity. "Thou Shalt not be a Homosexual" isn't one of those. Sure it is cited in the bible as being a sin but I think that is open to interpretation as several denominations have accepted it. Again...change.
What I don't care for is the hypocrisy and disrespect found in the religious landscape.
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Here is my 3 dollar bill opinion.
Religion as we know is dynamic in diversity on a global scale. I'm a Christian. I respect others who are zealous in different faiths. I respect the numerous interpretations within the Christian faith.
Religion is dynamic...it is changing. There will always be the foundation philosophies/morals/ truths that will not change has it is the basis of humanity. "Thou Shalt not be a Homosexual" isn't one of those. Sure it is cited in the bible has being a sin but I think that is open to interpretation as several denominations have accepted it. Again...change.
What I don't care for is the hypocrisy and disrespect found in the religious landscape.
Well put...
And may I add, religion itself hasn't been THE problem. It's organized religion that creates the politics and hypocrisy for ulterior motives. Has been that way since Rome. And still is.
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So you are saying that we have mapped all other genetic defects, but the gay gene is just so darn elusive...
There are plenty of genetic defects that haven't been mastered or fully explored. I don't know that homosexuality is or isn't decided by some genetic factor. It can't be proven either way at this point. It really doesn't matter whether or not it is honestly.
I said HUMAN cloning. And if you think there are no laws against it, try it and let people know you are trying it...I realize you are trying to find that perfect goat and keep a steady stream of them, but humans are a different story.
Human cloning is not illegal in the United States. There are maybe a handful of states that have laws against reproductive cloning, but none have laws against therapeutic cloning. There are no federal laws against either form of cloning. US scientists have successfully cloned human embryos from skin cells for that matter.
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Foundation for moral law. Do some research on that shit and try to honestly tell me that Roy Moore gives a single fuck about the commandments or gay marriage.
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I already answered this. Slavery existed. Has existed for most of history. Still exists. Will exist for centuries to come in some areas.
Slavery is a man-made institution. It's not out of the realm for the prophets to address it. It makes perfect sense that it would be. Is owning slaves a sin? It absolutely is not. That's the law of man. Treating them poorly? Harming them? Yeah. Maybe then it would be sinful. But slavery was an ordinary thing in the time of the writings. Of course there would be divine guidance on how to treat a fellow human being in that social constraint.
Are all slave owners unrepentant sinners and doomed to hell? Nope.
There are laws regarding slavery in the constitution. Guess we should just chunk that shit too.
Therein lies my point. Despite everything you said, there is no way to make me believe that any form of slavery is justified and more importantly, that the God I worship and have learned about all my life would encourage or condone it's existence. And it took centuries before most civilized cultures finally abolished it through laws. No, I don't think all slave owners are/were sinners. Again, goes even more to my point. Slavery in many forms was common practice in those times. The things Paul wrote of were things that were part of his culture, including slavery and ghey butt secks. I used the slavery reference to illustrate that those who say every word of the Bible is God and the Holy Spirit speaking through certain prophets or men, are "cherry picking" themselves to bolster their argument.
Paul said no to homosexuality. Then, he instructed slaves to be just as obedient to their earthly masters as they are to Christ. Didn't condemn it. Didn't even hint that it was wrong. You can't say every word written is the divine word of God and pick out Paul's stance on homosexuality to justify your argument, then just call slavery an accepted practice of the times. I take it the Holy Spirit was on coffee break while Paul was writing that.
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There are laws regarding slavery in the constitution. Guess we should just chunk that shit too.
This is no different than your argument about murder. Once again, common sense has to be applied at some point. Had the Bible never been written I would imagine that a civilized society would have realized the benefits of banning murder. Likewise, a civilized society realized that slavery was wrong. I can't really imagine how allowing same-sex marriage causes a public order danger. Laws have to evolve, such as they did when the Internet became huge.
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]I guess it just basically boils down to that I personally believe that true gay people are born that way.
If it's a defect, we should search for a cure.
There are people who are schizophrenic and murder people because the voices tell them to. Who are we to say they are wrong because they were born that way? Would God have made them schizophrenic if He didn't want them to murder?
Any argument you put forth can easily be invalidated. Some things are just plain wrong.
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Therein lies my point. Despite everything you said, there is no way to make me believe that any form of slavery is justified and more importantly, that the God I worship and have learned about all my life would encourage or condone it's existence. And it took centuries before most civilized cultures finally abolished it through laws. No, I don't think all slave owners are/were sinners. Again, goes even more to my point. Slavery in many forms was common practice in those times. The things Paul wrote of were things that were part of his culture, including slavery and ghey butt secks. I used the slavery reference to illustrate that those who say every word of the Bible is God and the Holy Spirit speaking through certain prophets or men, are "cherry picking" themselves to bolster their argument.
Paul said no to homosexuality. Then, he instructed slaves to be just as obedient to their earthly masters as they are to Christ. Didn't condemn it. Didn't even hint that it was wrong. You can't say every word written is the divine word of God and pick out Paul's stance on homosexuality to justify your argument, then just call slavery an accepted practice of the times. I take it the Holy Spirit was on coffee break while Paul was writing that.
They aren't "cherry picking" and the slavery argument is bogus on its face.
Slavery is not a sin. Owning slaves is not a sin. Being a slave is not a sin. Does God condone it? I don't know. He's smart enough to know that the institution is going to exist in humanity, particularly in ancient times. Knowing us as He does, it makes absolute and perfect sense that the Bible would address how people should treat their servants. Slavery still exists in many cultures. It existed here for all but the last 150 years. And it existed in the rest of the world for the last 30,000. So, yeah, pretty much it's a constant. In fact, if you look at the whole of human history places where there ISN'T slavery are not the norm, they're the anomaly.
I have no problem with Paul's stance on slavery. It's exactly what I would expect him to believe. And there's nothing wrong with it.
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This is no different than your argument about murder. Once again, common sense has to be applied at some point. Had the Bible never been written I would imagine that a civilized society would have realized the benefits of banning murder. Likewise, a civilized society realized that slavery was wrong. I can't really imagine how allowing same-sex marriage causes a public order danger. Laws have to evolve, such as they did when the Internet became huge.
Whose GOD DAMN common sense? (There, I sinned for you just to get it out of the way). Same sex marriage is fucking unnatural. *pun!* Damn right it's a danger to civilized society.
Civilized society realized slavery was wrong? Fuck that. The Romans were civilized as fuck. So were the Incans, the Mayans, the Egyptians and so on. Slavery was an accepted part of those cultures.
Men's laws can evolve all they fucking want to. They can evolve to get rid of the man-made institution of slavery. They can evolve to prevent children from working until they are of a certain age. They can evolve to prevent kids from drinking or smoking.
God's laws are eternal. It's the height of hubris for man to substitute his fucking "common sense" for the word of God. It's death is what it is.
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Whose GOD DAMN common sense? (There, I sinned for you just to get it out of the way). Same sex marriage is fucking unnatural. *pun!* Damn right it's a danger to civilized society.
Civilized society realized slavery was wrong? Fuck that. The Romans were civilized as fuck. So were the Incans, the Mayans, the Egyptians and so on. Slavery was an accepted part of those cultures.
Men's laws can evolve all they fucking want to. They can evolve to get rid of the man-made institution of slavery. They can evolve to prevent children from working until they are of a certain age. They can evolve to prevent kids from drinking or smoking.
God's laws are eternal. It's the height of hubris for man to substitute his fucking "common sense" for the word of God. It's death is what it is.
VV says a big black cock in his mouth is unnatural. But should always be legal.
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Whose GOD DAMN common sense? (There, I sinned for you just to get it out of the way). Same sex marriage is fucking unnatural. *pun!* Damn right it's a danger to civilized society.
I think it's unnatural that my dog and cat get along just fine. I think that SPAM is unnatural. It doesn't mean that it's wrong and should be abolished. I would like to hear how same-sex marriage is a danger to civilized society, though.
Civilized society realized slavery was wrong? Fuck that. The Romans were civilized as fuck. So were the Incans, the Mayans, the Egyptians and so on. Slavery was an accepted part of those cultures.
Cavemen were civilized society at one point. What worked for an ancient civilization may not be applicable to shit nowadays.
Men's laws can evolve all they fucking want to. They can evolve to get rid of the man-made institution of slavery. They can evolve to prevent children from working until they are of a certain age. They can evolve to prevent kids from drinking or smoking.
God's laws are eternal. It's the height of hubris for man to substitute his fucking "common sense" for the word of God. It's death is what it is.
I guess we should just get rid of anything the Bible didn't cover, and abide ONLY by what it says word-for-word. If we're going that route and abiding only by the word of God, which God's word should we obey?
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If it's a defect, we should search for a cure.
There are people who are schizophrenic and murder people because the voices tell them to. Who are we to say they are wrong because they were born that way? Would God have made them schizophrenic if He didn't want them to murder?
Any argument you put forth can easily be invalidated. Some things are just plain wrong.
It's a defect because you think it's a defect. And it's wrong because you think it's wrong. Other than that, any argument you put forth can be easily invalidated.
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They aren't "cherry picking" and the slavery argument is bogus on its face.
Slavery is not a sin. Owning slaves is not a sin. Being a slave is not a sin. Does God condone it? I don't know. He's smart enough to know that the institution is going to exist in humanity, particularly in ancient times. Knowing us as He does, it makes absolute and perfect sense that the Bible would address how people should treat their servants. Slavery still exists in many cultures. It existed here for all but the last 150 years. And it existed in the rest of the world for the last 30,000. So, yeah, pretty much it's a constant. In fact, if you look at the whole of human history places where there ISN'T slavery are not the norm, they're the anomaly.
I have no problem with Paul's stance on slavery. It's exactly what I would expect him to believe. And there's nothing wrong with it.
Insert "Homosexuality" for "Slavery". You said Paul's views on slavery is what he BELIEVED. (Not inspired by the Holy Spirit) My argument from the start has been that there's no way to tell if every word from Paul's mouth was not God inspired. Since God didn't say it, and Jesus didn't say it, how do you know that God/Jesus thinks homosexuality is a sin and slavery is not? Just because Paul said it? Slavery and homosexuality have existed since as far back as history has been recorded. Please tell me who decided, and when it was decided that one, or both, or neither, were a sin.
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Here we go with the Mother Wheel again. Either you believe that the bible is God's holy word or you deny his existence. There is no betwixt.
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Here we go with the Mother Wheel again. Either you believe that the bible is God's holy word or you deny his existence. There is no betwixt.
Your preacher brainwashed you well. Free thinking is void in you. Must be a genetic mutation. Maybe we can hire a scientist.
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I think that SPAM is unnatural.
You shut your dirty whorish mouth and keep the Spam out of this.
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It's a defect because you think it's a defect. And it's wrong because you think it's wrong. Other than that, any argument you put forth can be easily invalidated.
I didn't say it was a defect. But it's either a defect or a choice. If it's a defect? Find a cure. If it's a choice then that choice doesn't deserve to be legitimized as normal any more than sex with goats, fucking a carnival ride, raping palm trees or having a dozen cousin wives would.
I don't care what grown people do in private. Where I have a problem is forcing public acceptance of a perversion of nature. I don't my kids to be taught by teachers held up as role models who openly endorse their gay lifestyle. I don't want them to see it is a normal or acceptable alternative. Kids are already confused. The surge of hormones during the teenage years makes them crazy already. Without the moral compass that traditional values provide the confusion becomes worse. My kid is already dealing with a number of friends who have decided that since "boys don't like me" they must be a lesbian. Or because they are gawky and ugly at 13 they "maybe should have been a boy". That a such bullshit. These kids need guidance. Not "hey, hey, it's okay! Graft dick down there today!!"
It is a perversion of nature. It goes against the natural order. Therefore it's wrong.
There will be consequences. Look to Rome. We are on the same path.
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I think it's unnatural that my dog and cat get along just fine. I think that SPAM is unnatural. It doesn't mean that it's wrong and should be abolished. I would like to hear how same-sex marriage is a danger to civilized society, though.
Cavemen were civilized society at one point. What worked for an ancient civilization may not be applicable to shit nowadays.
I guess we should just get rid of anything the Bible didn't cover, and abide ONLY by what it says word-for-word. If we're going that route and abiding only by the word of God, which God's word should we obey?
You're argument is dumb. Your analogies are ridiculous, frivolous and don't apply.
You can't be helped.
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Insert "Homosexuality" for "Slavery". You said Paul's views on slavery is what he BELIEVED. (Not inspired by the Holy Spirit) My argument from the start has been that there's no way to tell if every word from Paul's mouth was not God inspired. Since God didn't say it, and Jesus didn't say it, how do you know that God/Jesus thinks homosexuality is a sin and slavery is not? Just because Paul said it? Slavery and homosexuality have existed since as far back as history has been recorded. Please tell me who decided, and when it was decided that one, or both, or neither, were a sin.
Slavery is man made. It's our own societal constraint. You can't substitute a man-created institution with a perversion of the natural order.
It's as simple as genesis. Man and woman. Go forth and multiply.
Lesbians can't. Cocksuckers can't.
Game, set, match.
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Your preacher brainwashed you well. Free thinking is void in you. Must be a genetic mutation. Maybe we can hire a scientist.
It's called faith. Yours is lacking...
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My kid is already dealing with a number of friends who have decided that since "boys don't like me" they must be a lesbian. Or because they are gawky and ugly at 13 they "maybe should have been a boy". That a such bullshit. These kids need guidance. Not "hey, hey, it's okay! Graft dick down there today!!"
This is the issue. You think that all gay people are like the ones you described. In my opinion, those are kids that fit into both yours and CCTAU description and not who I am talking about. You guys can't fathom that there are people out there that are truly drawn to the same sex...and it has nothing to do with the sexual acts that come with it.
I am speaking of the ones that really want to be "normal" but just aren't. The ones that don't know why they aren't attracted to people of the opposite sex and are attracted to the ones of the same sex. The people that truly love another man or woman as you would your wife. It's different than what you describe.
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This is the issue. You think that all gay people are like the ones you described. In my opinion, those are kids that fit into both yours and CCTAU description and not who I am talking about. You guys can't fathom that there are people out there that are truly drawn to the same sex...and it has nothing to do with the sexual acts that come with it.
I am speaking of the ones that really want to be "normal" but just aren't. The ones that don't know why they aren't attracted to people of the opposite sex and are attracted to the ones of the same sex. The people that truly love another man or woman as you would your wife. It's different than what you describe.
Doesn't matter. It's still wrong.
We all have to choose not to do things we are drawn to. I'd be a murdering mofherfucker if there were no consequences and it was considered "normal"
The people you describe should be "cured". Because that kind of attraction is not natural.
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I am speaking of the ones that really want to be "normal" but just aren't. The ones that don't know why they aren't attracted to people of the opposite sex and are attracted to the ones of the same sex. The people that truly love another man or woman as you would your wife. It's different than what you describe.
Hmm. Now insert pedophile everywhere you said same sex.
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Hmm. Now insert pedophile everywhere you said same sex.
Consenting adults.
Taking advantage of a child.
Exact same thing.
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Doesn't matter. It's still wrong.
We all have to choose not to do things we are drawn to. I'd be a murdering mofherfucker if there were no consequences and it was considered "normal"
The people you describe should be "cured". Because that kind of attraction is not natural.
Except the person that you murder probably doesn't want their life taken from them...but other than that...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APw1Ux9w4M#t=14 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APw1Ux9w4M#t=14)
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This discussion is old. Are we going to fuck or not? We can take it back to PM if you want but I'm tired of the teasing.
Your shtick is old. I wanted to make up with you. Extend an olive branch. Pass the peace pipe. Let's not go down this road again.
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!
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!
Harumff
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Consenting adults.
Taking advantage of a child.
Exact same thing.
Yeah. It is. EXACTLY the same thing.
Pedophelia is unnatural. It is immoral. But pedophiles tell you they can't help themselves. God made them that way. So we should just celebrate it. Have some parades. Make fun of anybody who opposes it. Call them archaic.
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It's called faith. Yours is lacking...
whoa dixie cup.
nope. not all. my faith in my religious belief is stronger in my life than ever before.
just because i don't have faith in your denomination doesn't mean it's lacking. i respect your beliefs and hope you can with me.
we may disagree and that is part of life. it is fun to debate. never hard feelings just a little bit of interwebz life.
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never hard feelings just a little bit of interwebz life.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u4KUR6mySxw/TLaswO5lWBI/AAAAAAAAABY/Igl-_9O7Xdg/s1600/thug_life.jpg)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u4KUR6mySxw/TLaswO5lWBI/AAAAAAAAABY/Igl-_9O7Xdg/s1600/thug_life.jpg)
A young wes4au (Destin) hopes to someday soon become a member of NWA
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Yeah. It is. EXACTLY the same thing.
Pedophelia is unnatural. It is immoral. But pedophiles tell you they can't help themselves. God made them that way. So we should just celebrate it. Have some parades. Make fun of anybody who opposes it. Call them archaic.
You aren't dumb....
There is a victim in pedophilia and your murder example.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u4KUR6mySxw/TLaswO5lWBI/AAAAAAAAABY/Igl-_9O7Xdg/s1600/thug_life.jpg)
That's exactly how I pictured nook until I actually met him and realized he's a middle-aged black man.
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That's exactly how I pictured nook until I actually met him and realized he's a middle-aged black man.
He's middle aged?
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You're argument is dumb. Your analogies are ridiculous, frivolous and don't apply.
You can't be helped.
You're the one that said we should obey the word of God. I'm just asking you which one we should obey. What's so hard about that? I would also really like to try to understand how allowing same-sex marriage is going to destroy civilization as we know it. I mean, homosexuality has been around for a while now. The act of homosexuality is taking place anyway. Our cities aren't burning to the ground (except Ferguson), and the sky isn't falling. How is allowing same-sex marriages going to change that? I'm guessing that in your world we would make homosexuality itself illegal?
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You're the one that said we should obey the word of God. I'm just asking you which one we should obey. What's so hard about that? I would also really like to try to understand how allowing same-sex marriage is going to destroy civilization as we know it. I mean, homosexuality has been around for a while now. The act of homosexuality is taking place anyway. Our cities aren't burning to the ground (except Ferguson), and the sky isn't falling. How is allowing same-sex marriages going to change that? I'm guessing that in your world we would make homosexuality itself illegal?
I hear it dates all the way back to the 60's
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I hear it dates all the way back to the 60's
Yea....The 1860's
(http://thenewgay.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Lincoln.jpg)
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Yea....The 1860's
(http://thenewgay.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Lincoln.jpg)
Some like adults were known to share a bed often out of necessity.
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Yea....The 1860's
(http://thenewgay.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Lincoln.jpg)
Now that's hawt
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Does anybody want to fuck or not? This place isn't as good of a place to meet men as I had heard.
This place isn't as promising as Grindr. I'll admit that.
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Yea....The 1860's
(http://thenewgay.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Lincoln.jpg)
War criminal!
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Pedophelia is unnatural.
Unnatural? Then why do Bonobos participate in it? Because they're unnatural creatures perverted by the liberals? Or because we have man-made definitions of what is acceptable in regard to the age for sexual intercourse?
It is immoral.
Isn't morality man-made? Pedophilia is immoral, but is based on our subjective system of determining age and when someone is ready to fuck. So why are we concerned with what is man-made? "Men's laws can evolve all they fucking want to." What happened to that stance?
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You're the one that said we should obey the word of God. I'm just asking you which one we should obey. What's so hard about that? I would also really like to try to understand how allowing same-sex marriage is going to destroy civilization as we know it. I mean, homosexuality has been around for a while now. The act of homosexuality is taking place anyway. Our cities aren't burning to the ground (except Ferguson), and the sky isn't falling. How is allowing same-sex marriages going to change that? I'm guessing that in your world we would make homosexuality itself illegal?
So has pedophelia.
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So has pedophelia.
What is wrong with pedophelia? Surrous querstion dat I be axin.
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As to the Bible being perfect, I have faith that it is. I recognize the difference between the New and the Old testaments, but I believe in the whole. Logically, I recognize that it was written, collectively, by inherently fallible men. But here's the rub: If I just start cherry picking passages that I like or don't like because it was written by men I might as well chuck the Bible out of the window and start being a new age, "spiritual", good feelings and good vibes hippy type.
Who says God has to make sense to you? And you have to agree with what GOD says? Good grief.
What about the difference between a man that was born gay and a man that was born straight? Both are born with the drive to commit acts that the Bible defines as sin. Having worked in a jail I can tell you that a surprising percentage of men and women are capable of committing both heterosexual and homosexual acts. But if you really start deciding what is wrong or right based off how you're born the struggle of Christianity, and life in general, loses meaning. Whats the point in preaching the word of God? You were either born to believe it or not. Whats the point of charity? Poor were born to starve to death. Whats the point of science and medicine? Men were born to die of the measles and if man was meant to fly we'd have wings. As you can see, if you take that line of thinking to its inevitable conclusion you wind up excusing a lot of silliness.
Now here's the problem I have with my fellow conservatives: sin is sin. To be guilty of any one sin, without faith in Jesus' sacrifice, is to be condemned to hell. That means that all sins, having the same penalty, are equally horrible in God's eyes. Now, I commit sin. You guys sure as hell do. In fact, on this very board, several of you argued that prostitution should be legal, or at least ignored. Now how is it that a prostitute, who is capable of tempting you red-blooded American boys less of an "abomination" to the church OR the state than a gay dude marrying another gay dude? At the very least, I assume the married gay dudes aren't going to be capable of subverting any church men into sin. As a representative of the state I can point out that prostitution causes or correlates with a number of other criminal problems. Haven't seen anyone clamoring to get anyone arrested for cheating on their wives, or take away the rights of divorced couples. Nobody getting locked up for taking the Lord's name in vain either. Why is this one sin so important to the state?
I think the state oughta get out of the marriage business altogether. Do I think homosexuality is okay? Nah its gross and a sin but that ain't really any of the state's business. Separation of church and state and all that. I think we have wayyyyy bigger fish to fry as a country in general and as conservatives in specific. I think Christians who believe and follow the Bible oughta remember the greatest commandment.
Jesus replied: “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€
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So has pedophelia.
Two legal consenting adults trying to marry is not the same as a 50 year old fucking a 5 year old. Ditto for murder; one party is not consenting.
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What is wrong with pedophelia? Surrous querstion dat I be axin.
Signed,
Uncle Sani
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What is wrong with pedophelia? Surrous querstion dat I be axin.
Broken bones are always a problem.
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As to the Bible being perfect, I have faith that it is. I recognize the difference between the New and the Old testaments, but I believe in the whole. Logically, I recognize that it was written, collectively, by inherently fallible men. But here's the rub: If I just start cherry picking passages that I like or don't like because it was written by men I might as well chuck the Bible out of the window and start being a new age, "spiritual", good feelings and good vibes hippy type.
Who says God has to make sense to you? And you have to agree with what GOD says? Good grief.
What about the difference between a man that was born gay and a man that was born straight? Both are born with the drive to commit acts that the Bible defines as sin. Having worked in a jail I can tell you that a surprising percentage of men and women are capable of committing both heterosexual and homosexual acts. But if you really start deciding what is wrong or right based off how you're born the struggle of Christianity, and life in general, loses meaning. Whats the point in preaching the word of God? You were either born to believe it or not. Whats the point of charity? Poor were born to starve to death. Whats the point of science and medicine? Men were born to die of the measles and if man was meant to fly we'd have wings. As you can see, if you take that line of thinking to its inevitable conclusion you wind up excusing a lot of silliness.
Now here's the problem I have with my fellow conservatives: sin is sin. To be guilty of any one sin, without faith in Jesus' sacrifice, is to be condemned to hell. That means that all sins, having the same penalty, are equally horrible in God's eyes. Now, I commit sin. You guys sure as hell do. In fact, on this very board, several of you argued that prostitution should be legal, or at least ignored. Now how is it that a prostitute, who is capable of tempting you red-blooded American boys less of an "abomination" to the church OR the state than a gay dude marrying another gay dude? At the very least, I assume the married gay dudes aren't going to be capable of subverting any church men into sin. As a representative of the state I can point out that prostitution causes or correlates with a number of other criminal problems. Haven't seen anyone clamoring to get anyone arrested for cheating on their wives, or take away the rights of divorced couples. Nobody getting locked up for taking the Lord's name in vain either. Why is this one sin so important to the state?
I think the state oughta get out of the marriage business altogether. Do I think homosexuality is okay? Nah its gross and a sin but that ain't really any of the state's business. Separation of church and state and all that. I think we have wayyyyy bigger fish to fry as a country in general and as conservatives in specific. I think Christians who believe and follow the Bible oughta remember the greatest commandment.
Jesus replied: “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€
Well said.
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Well said.
I would have gone with "Amen"
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I will add that judging and persecuting others is also a "sin". Live and let live, I say.
Do I find homosecks gross...yep. Do I condemn them... nope, it's their thing. What right as a person do I have to judge others? Let God sort them out.
Like Jumbo said, if they want to get married, let them. It doesn't affect me, if they want to be equally miserable.
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I will add that judging and persecuting others is also a "sin". Live and let live, I say.
It really is that simple. End of story.
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What is wrong with pedophelia? Surrous querstion dat I be axin.
Shit... cause then I have to walk back through the forrest alone.
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This will be the last I say of this. You don't have to change your heart to know Jesus. You get to know Jesus so he can change your heart. It is up to Christians to love everyone and share the word of God with all people. It is not up to Christians to try and change anyone. If someone knows Christ, He will do that for them. If being gay is a sin, so be it. But that is up to God to change their heart and not us. Being gay is not taking someones life or raping a child. Those comparisons are dumb. Being gay is a way of life for some people and if it is disapproving to God, then God will handle it. Christ taught us to love everyone and share His word to everyone. If we do that, Christ will handle the rest.
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I would also like to add that I never come into this forum, because I do not like to debate politics. It is a never ending battle because you are never going to change the mindset of someone else.
However the rest of this fucking forum is dead, because all of you fuckers want to talk about gay shit.
I now hate you all.
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This will be the last I say of this. You don't have to change your heart to know Jesus. You get to know Jesus so he can change your heart. It is up to Christians to love everyone and share the word of God with all people. It is not up to Christians to try and change anyone. If someone knows Christ, He will do that for them. If being gay is a sin, so be it. But that is up to God to change their heart and not us. Being gay is not taking someones life or raping a child. Those comparisons are dumb. Being gay is a way of life for some people and if it is disapproving to God, then God will handle it. Christ taught us to love everyone and share His word to everyone. If we do that, Christ will handle the rest.
Very well put. I don't agree with homosexuality, but it is not my place to judge people. All I can do as a Christian is love everybody (even you, GF) and try my best to live a life the way I should. Which, by the way, I never do.
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This will be the last I say of this. You don't have to change your heart to know Jesus. You get to know Jesus so he can change your heart. It is up to Christians to love everyone and share the word of God with all people. It is not up to Christians to try and change anyone. If someone knows Christ, He will do that for them. If being gay is a sin, so be it. But that is up to God to change their heart and not us. Being gay is not taking someones life or raping a child. Those comparisons are dumb. Being gay is a way of life for some people and if it is disapproving to God, then God will handle it. Christ taught us to love everyone and share His word to everyone. If we do that, Christ will handle the rest.
Hate the sin.
You're not doing that. Can't hate the sin and condone acceptance of the activity in the same breath.
Doesn't work.
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Hate the sin.
You're not doing that. Can't hate the sin and condone acceptance of the activity in the same breath.
Doesn't work.
Saw where Mobile mobilized a task force and in conjuction with Homeland Security rounded up 16 prostitutes. They were all pretty ugly so not worth linking or adding photos.
But I think about this.
Why is it illegal for a woman to agree to fuck a man for money if that's what she wants to do? Pimping I'm not much of a fan of, it just wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be.
But if you're 25 years old or older and you choose to provide a man services in exchange for benefits, why should you be prevented from doing so?
I happen to know a 25 year old girl who currently "visits" at least three different married men. She works sort of part time, but has her own apartment. She has a very nice car. She's always dripping in nice clothes, jewelry, shoes, watches, and accessories. She goes to Vegas for weekends. She flies to New York for Christmas shopping. She's never short of cash. Ever.
Some would call her a prostitute I guess. It's not what I'd want for my kids, but this girl has limited education, she's not very bright and she's using the only thing she has at her disposal. Because she looks good. And flirts hard. She is smart enough that even though she's mowing through money, she's also putting shitloads back. Her bank account is fat. Fatter than mine.
Should she be condemned? Is what she's doing wrong (other than the morality of providing married men what they are absolutely, positively not getting at home). These guys aren't going to leave their wives and kids. They all know exactly what they're getting out of it.
Is that wrong?
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Well now.
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It was a question.
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You know it's bad when I'm tired of talking about the gays. Lets move on to something else. Like my big wang-a-lang. Whatever. I will lock this thread if you don't.
-
As to the Bible being perfect, I have faith that it is. I recognize the difference between the New and the Old testaments, but I believe in the whole. Logically, I recognize that it was written, collectively, by inherently fallible men. But here's the rub: If I just start cherry picking passages that I like or don't like because it was written by men I might as well chuck the Bible out of the window and start being a new age, "spiritual", good feelings and good vibes hippy type.
Who says God has to make sense to you? And you have to agree with what GOD says? Good grief.
What about the difference between a man that was born gay and a man that was born straight? Both are born with the drive to commit acts that the Bible defines as sin. Having worked in a jail I can tell you that a surprising percentage of men and women are capable of committing both heterosexual and homosexual acts. But if you really start deciding what is wrong or right based off how you're born the struggle of Christianity, and life in general, loses meaning. Whats the point in preaching the word of God? You were either born to believe it or not. Whats the point of charity? Poor were born to starve to death. Whats the point of science and medicine? Men were born to die of the measles and if man was meant to fly we'd have wings. As you can see, if you take that line of thinking to its inevitable conclusion you wind up excusing a lot of silliness.
Now here's the problem I have with my fellow conservatives: sin is sin. To be guilty of any one sin, without faith in Jesus' sacrifice, is to be condemned to hell. That means that all sins, having the same penalty, are equally horrible in God's eyes. Now, I commit sin. You guys sure as hell do. In fact, on this very board, several of you argued that prostitution should be legal, or at least ignored. Now how is it that a prostitute, who is capable of tempting you red-blooded American boys less of an "abomination" to the church OR the state than a gay dude marrying another gay dude? At the very least, I assume the married gay dudes aren't going to be capable of subverting any church men into sin. As a representative of the state I can point out that prostitution causes or correlates with a number of other criminal problems. Haven't seen anyone clamoring to get anyone arrested for cheating on their wives, or take away the rights of divorced couples. Nobody getting locked up for taking the Lord's name in vain either. Why is this one sin so important to the state?
I think the state oughta get out of the marriage business altogether. Do I think homosexuality is okay? Nah its gross and a sin but that ain't really any of the state's business. Separation of church and state and all that. I think we have wayyyyy bigger fish to fry as a country in general and as conservatives in specific. I think Christians who believe and follow the Bible oughta remember the greatest commandment.
Jesus replied: “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€
:kimclap:
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It was tl;dr. But if I had, I'm sure I would have liked it.
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http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/02/gay_marriage_in_alabama_a_repo.html (http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/02/gay_marriage_in_alabama_a_repo.html)
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:thumsup:
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This will be the last I say of this. You don't have to change your heart to know Jesus. You get to know Jesus so he can change your heart. It is up to Christians to love everyone and share the word of God with all people. It is not up to Christians to try and change anyone. If someone knows Christ, He will do that for them. If being gay is a sin, so be it. But that is up to God to change their heart and not us. Being gay is not taking someones life or raping a child. Those comparisons are dumb. Being gay is a way of life for some people and if it is disapproving to God, then God will handle it. Christ taught us to love everyone and share His word to everyone. If we do that, Christ will handle the rest.
Seeker friendly worship is half truth. God commanded us to hold each other accountable. Accountability is not judging!
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Seeker friendly worship is half truth. God commanded us to hold each other accountable. Accountability is not judging!
Hitler totally agrees.
-
As to the Bible being perfect, I have faith that it is. I recognize the difference between the New and the Old testaments, but I believe in the whole. Logically, I recognize that it was written, collectively, by inherently fallible men. But here's the rub: If I just start cherry picking passages that I like or don't like because it was written by men I might as well chuck the Bible out of the window and start being a new age, "spiritual", good feelings and good vibes hippy type.
Who says God has to make sense to you? And you have to agree with what GOD says? Good grief.
What about the difference between a man that was born gay and a man that was born straight? Both are born with the drive to commit acts that the Bible defines as sin. Having worked in a jail I can tell you that a surprising percentage of men and women are capable of committing both heterosexual and homosexual acts. But if you really start deciding what is wrong or right based off how you're born the struggle of Christianity, and life in general, loses meaning. Whats the point in preaching the word of God? You were either born to believe it or not. Whats the point of charity? Poor were born to starve to death. Whats the point of science and medicine? Men were born to die of the measles and if man was meant to fly we'd have wings. As you can see, if you take that line of thinking to its inevitable conclusion you wind up excusing a lot of silliness.
Now here's the problem I have with my fellow conservatives: sin is sin. To be guilty of any one sin, without faith in Jesus' sacrifice, is to be condemned to hell. That means that all sins, having the same penalty, are equally horrible in God's eyes. Now, I commit sin. You guys sure as hell do. In fact, on this very board, several of you argued that prostitution should be legal, or at least ignored. Now how is it that a prostitute, who is capable of tempting you red-blooded American boys less of an "abomination" to the church OR the state than a gay dude marrying another gay dude? At the very least, I assume the married gay dudes aren't going to be capable of subverting any church men into sin. As a representative of the state I can point out that prostitution causes or correlates with a number of other criminal problems. Haven't seen anyone clamoring to get anyone arrested for cheating on their wives, or take away the rights of divorced couples. Nobody getting locked up for taking the Lord's name in vain either. Why is this one sin so important to the state?
I think the state oughta get out of the marriage business altogether. Do I think homosexuality is okay? Nah its gross and a sin but that ain't really any of the state's business. Separation of church and state and all that. I think we have wayyyyy bigger fish to fry as a country in general and as conservatives in specific. I think Christians who believe and follow the Bible oughta remember the greatest commandment.
Jesus replied: “'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€
All that is wonderful. Well put. BUT....
I'm not talking about how you, I, or any of the rest of us debating the issue think about the issue.
I'm talking about future generations. Not speaking out is implied endorsement. Deciding it's okay for people to embrace this particular perversion tels our kids that it's not a wrong. It's just a different normal.
I can't agree with that. Can't accept preachers sanctioning gay unions. Don't want gus teachers telling my kids it's just a different and perfectly okay way of being.
The war for my support was lost a long time ago. It's the war for the minds and souls of my kids that concerns me.
We all sin. No doubt. But the difference here is I'm not saying my sin is okay and should be accepted. Im trying every day to do better. I'm not substituting my selfish desires for God's will.
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I would also like to add that I never come into this forum, because I do not like to debate politics. It is a never ending battle because you are never going to change the mindset of someone else.
However the rest of this fudgeing forum is dead, because all of you fudgeers want to talk about gay shoot.
I now hate you all.
Can we talk about who won the Fantasy Foosballz?
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I would also like to add that I never come into this forum, because I do not like to debate politics. It is a never ending battle because you are never going to change the mindset of someone else.
However the rest of this fucking forum is dead, because all of you fuckers want to talk about gay shit.
I now hate you all.
I'm getting this way. Didn't used to be. But realizing exactly what you stated.
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Hitler totally agrees.
May be the dumbest response you have ever posted. If you don't understand what is being discussed, ask.
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May be the dumbest response you have ever posted. If you don't understand what is being discussed, ask.
Zig Heil!
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Zig Heil!
Ah. I see what you did there.
Thanks Godwin...
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http://youtu.be/kHmYIo7bcUw (http://youtu.be/kHmYIo7bcUw)
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Jobu needs a re-fill.
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Ah. I see what you did there.
Thanks Godwin...
Six degrees of Hitler.
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http://youtu.be/kHmYIo7bcUw (http://youtu.be/kHmYIo7bcUw)
YAY!!! That was great!