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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Kaos on September 10, 2012, 02:49:27 AM
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http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20120908/SPORTS0402/309080050/Commentary-Coach-Gene-Chizik-only-one-blame-2012-Tigers-mess?odyssey=nav|h
Cliff's Notes: Chizik sucks.
The argument is compelling.
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Coach Chizik and staff do own up to the blame...but they shouldn't own up to all of it. The coaches can't make the tackles or the throws out there (they do both of those things in practice on a consistent basis). Btw, I do agree with Moon's article for the most part.
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Coach Chizik and staff do own up to the blame...but they shouldn't own up to all of it. The coaches can't make the tackles or the throws out there (they do both of those things in practice on a consistent basis). Btw, I do agree with Moon's article for the most part.
They could try teaching that one...
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Scarbo torched him pretty good as well.
http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2012/09/post_4.html
Mississippi State becomes Gene Chizik's signature defeat
By Kevin Scarbinsky, Birmingham News
STARKVILLE, Miss. - The only surprise is that Mississippi State 28, Auburn 10 wasn’t a surprise.
Not the margin or the means to that ugly ending.
Not if you’ve been paying attention to the program Gene Chizik’s been running on the field.
Sophomore Kiehl Frazier looked bad in his second start at quarterback? He hadn’t looked all that good against Clemson, and he didn’t get a lot of help in either game.
The Auburn defense made the junior Tyler Russell look like the senior Jason Campbell? Same defense that made Andre Ellington look like Bo Jackson.
The Auburn team walked out of its SEC opener with a double-digit defeat? In three straight, four out of five and five out of the last seven conference games, the Tigers have lost by at least 18 points.
Have poor quarterback play, spotty defense and lopsided losses become more than things to be examined at Auburn? Are they now to be expected?
The growing body of evidence would say yes.
As bad as the other losses in this 8-7 slide since the start of the 2011 season may have been, this one was worse. It was the worst loss of Chizik’s tenure, and none of the others comes close.
This one came four years and four recruiting classes into his regime, further proof that all the accolades on signing day have yet to translate to game day. If that weren’t puzzling enough, this loss came against a team that had been one of the sure things on the schedule.
If you can’t stay with Mississippi State for four quarters, good luck against LSU, Arkansas, Georgia and Alabama. Even Louisiana-Monroe may arrive at Jordan-Hare Stadium next week feeling chesty.
After what he correctly labeled a “very dismal performance,†how confident is Chizik that he’s not staring at a repeat of last year? Or worse?
“This is a week-by-week basis for us,†he said. “This is a new team. It’s got new direction. There’s new kids in positions that they’ve never been in before. So I can’t look back to last year or two years ago or three years ago. This is a new team and a new time, and it’s our job as coaches to get them refocused and redirected so that we can win a football game next week. And it’ll be a week-by-week progression with us.â€
From Clemson to Mississippi State wasn't a progression. It was a retreat.
Week by week in 2011, Auburn looked weak compared to the strongest teams on its schedule. Two weeks into the 2012 season, the close loss to Clemson looks like a moral victory compared to Saturday’s embarrassment.
How bad was it?
Hard as it may be to believe, Auburn didn’t look this inept in its 3-2 win here during Tommy Tuberville’s final season. Chris Todd completed 14 of 26 passes that night for 154 yards and didn’t throw an interception. As a team, Auburn gained 315 yards.
Frazier finished 13 of 22 for 125 yards, but even those poor numbers are deceiving. At the half, he was 1 for 7 for minus-2 yards. After three quarters, he was 3 for 10 for 18 yards. All told, he tossed three interceptions, and the offense finished with a meager 216 yards.
Chizik didn’t blame Frazier, not entirely. Chizik also said he didn’t consider replacing Frazier, which is inexplicable unless Clint Moseley’s shoulder is injured more seriously than Auburn has divulged.
“We got outplayed, and I’m going to own it,†Chizik said.
Just what he didn’t need after an offseason of discontent. A signature defeat.
Chizik has lost 12 games as the Auburn coach – all of them without Cam Newton, in case you hadn’t heard – but losing to Mississippi State could help move the discussion beyond changing quarterbacks.
This was Auburn’s worst loss to Mississippi State since a 17-point defeat here in 1998. What else happened that year? Terry Bowden quit before he could be fired.
This is the first time Auburn has started a season 0-2 since 2003. Why might that historical reference be relevant? Later that season, Auburn tried to hire Bobby Petrino without firing Tuberville first. And Petrino was employed then.
Auburn walked away Saturday with an alarming number of questions, none of them more relevant and ominous than this: Will this team grow up and man up soon enough to prevent another jet with a purpose from going wheels up?
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The coaches can't make the tackles or the throws out there (they do both of those things in practice on a consistent basis).
No, but they are responsible for putting the best players on the field. They are responsible for talent evaluation. When year after year you keep seeing guys who can't tackle, can't read plays, etc, that is more so an indicator of poor coaching. Whether the guy just isn't SEC caliber, or whatever, that comes back to the coaches. Blaming Tuberville for anything that happened this year or last year is just as stupid as blaming Shula for Alabama's 3 loss season in 2010. Alabama replaced basically the entire defense (lost guys like Arenas, Cody, McClain, etc) in that year and still only managed to lose 3 games by a combined 18 points. While some are quick to blame Tuberville, what they don't realize is, Chizik seems to be doing the same thing. The only difference is you see more stars on the front end when these kids commit nowadays.
Having a young, inexperienced, but talented team means missing an assignment here and there. You bit on a play action when you really shouldn't have. You released a receiver to the wrong side. You got burned on a double move. You just don't know how to finish that big game and fall a little short. It isn't getting ass raped by your rivals, or getting ass raped by.....MSU while looking totally inept in the process. I'm not trying to be a goat fucking Alabama fan by saying that, it's just the truth. Something has to give somewhere. If these guys just aren't motivated to play to their talent level, or just aren't as talented as first evaluated, it goes back to the coaches either way.
You talk the same way the Shula knob-slobbers always talked, and that's a scary road to go down. "Wait until next year...." was always the party line. Auburn isn't known for shitty football, but people like you are saying it's OK. That's the same line of thinking that allowed Alabama to get completely owned by you guys for 6 years. You guys are slowly slipping into what Alabama was under Shula. Even as an Alabama fan, I don't want to see that happen.
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No, but they are responsible for putting the best players on the field. They are responsible for talent evaluation. When year after year you keep seeing guys who can't tackle, can't read plays, etc, that is more so an indicator of poor coaching. Whether the guy just isn't SEC caliber, or whatever, that comes back to the coaches. Blaming Tuberville for anything that happened this year or last year is just as stupid as blaming Shula for Alabama's 3 loss season in 2010. Alabama replaced basically the entire defense (lost guys like Arenas, Cody, McClain, etc) in that year and still only managed to lose 3 games by a combined 18 points. While some are quick to blame Tuberville, what they don't realize is, Chizik seems to be doing the same thing. The only difference is you see more stars on the front end when these kids commit nowadays.
Having a young, inexperienced, but talented team means missing an assignment here and there. You bit on a play action when you really shouldn't have. You released a receiver to the wrong side. You got burned on a double move. You just don't know how to finish that big game and fall a little short. It isn't getting ass raped by your rivals, or getting ass raped by.....MSU while looking totally inept in the process. I'm not trying to be a goat fucking Alabama fan by saying that, it's just the truth. Something has to give somewhere. If these guys just aren't motivated to play to their talent level, or just aren't as talented as first evaluated, it goes back to the coaches either way.
You talk the same way the Shula knob-slobbers always talked, and that's a scary road to go down. "Wait until next year...." was always the party line. Auburn isn't known for shitty football, but people like you are saying it's OK. That's the same line of thinking that allowed Alabama to get completely owned by you guys for 6 years. You guys are slowly slipping into what Alabama was under Shula. Even as an Alabama fan, I don't want to see that happen.
tl;gfy
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Scarbo torched him pretty good as well.
http://www.al.com/auburnfootball/index.ssf/2012/09/post_4.html
The only thing I disagree with? The plane got repossessed.
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They could try teaching that one...
The shit eating bammers do come out in times like these. Fuck off and die fuckstick.
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Coach Chizik and staff do own up to the blame...but they shouldn't own up to all of it. The coaches can't make the tackles or the throws out there (they do both of those things in practice on a consistent basis). Btw, I do agree with Moon's article for the most part.
You know it, and I know how practice runs. They teach the skills daily. They don't have an X Box controller to make the players do as coached on Saturday. Bottom line though, the coaching staff has to answer for the play on the field, especially when recruiting has been so highly touted. If we'd had 4 straight classes out of the top 25, I'd get the on field performance, but then again, this isn't HS football where you have to play with what you have, you get the chance to evaluate and pick your team to a certain extent, and this year sux. Buck stops with Chiz.
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You know it, and I know how practice runs. They teach the skills daily. They don't have an X Box controller to make the players do as coached on Saturday. Bottom line though, the coaching staff has to answer for the play on the field, especially when recruiting has been so highly touted. If we'd had 4 straight classes out of the top 25, I'd get the on field performance, but then again, this isn't HS football where you have to play with what you have, you get the chance to evaluate and pick your team to a certain extent, and this year sux. Buck stops with Chiz.
^^^This^^^
Chizik is in year 4. He should have at least a decent product on the field by now. It really just hit me yesterday...I have grown so fucking tired of hearing the dims blame George Bush for everything that is wrong in America, but I have listened and actually still placed blame on Tubs for what is going on at Auburn today. It's time for him to right the ship or give somebody else a chance to.
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I don't know who's fault the QB situation is...I do know this though...
Third and 8...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292322.jpg)
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292324.jpg)
What the fuck? I know that Bray has to be who this play is designed for. It is a complete misdirection and Bray is the ONLY one on the right side. How do you miss your first option? I don't get it.
I have also seen a picture on twitter that I can't find anymore that has Holland playing close to 12 yards off the line of scrimmage before the ball is snapped. What the fuck is that? Is that Holland or coaching? I have never seen that shit before in my life...
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I don't know who's fault the QB situation is...I do know this though...
Third and 8...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292322.jpg)
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292324.jpg)
What the fuck? I know that Bray has to be who this play is designed for. It is a complete misdirection and Bray is the ONLY one on the right side. How do you miss your first option? I don't get it.
I have also seen a picture on twitter that I can't find anymore that has Holland playing close to 12 yards off the line of scrimmage before the ball is snapped. What the fuck is that? Is that Holland or coaching? I have never seen that shit before in my life...
That's solid protection, and good "play calling" when someone is that open.
I've seen Holland line up repeatedly at 8 yards deep, and bail at the snap when every LB screamed run. I've never known a 43 scheme to have the Mike at 8 yards off the ball on any down, much less 1st and 10.
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(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292322.jpg)
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292324.jpg)
Emory Blake would have also been an option. Perfect pick by the ref, and Kiehl should be looking right at him.
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Emory Blake would have also been an option. Perfect pick by the ref, and Kiehl should be looking right at him.
If Frazier had seen him, he'd have thrown the ball behind him.
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Emory Blake would have also been an option. Perfect pick by the ref, and Kiehl should be looking right at him.
ALso, Lutz had his guy trailing on his inside hip. Exactly where he needs to be. If you throw that ball toward the sideline, Luts has a good shot at it. But what happens???
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292307.jpg)
Our QB goes full tard and throws the ball into the ground...
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Emory Blake would have also been an option. Perfect pick by the ref, and Kiehl should be looking right at him.
Hell, even Reed can come back to the ball there...
How the fuck do you not throw it to ANYONE???????????????
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Hell, even Reed can come back to the ball there...
How the fuck do you not throw it to ANYONE???????????????
One has to wonder at the incompetence.
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The shit eating bammers do come out in times like these. Fuck off and die fuckstick.
But lately Guapo and RWS are right about this. You DO teach tackling! As much as I point out his flaws, Tubs' Defenses tackled. Why the hell has NOT one Chizik Defense (all players not named Fairly) the last 4 years tackled a RB correctly? There are lots of questions we should be asking.
But as in the other thread, I def don't think a "burn him at the stake!" or the opposite, "read the creed! no criticism is allowed" perspective is the correct way to look at this. Emotions are running rampant at the moment.
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But lately Guapo and RWS are right about this. You DO teach tackling! As much as I point out his flaws, Tubs' Defenses tackled. Why the hell has NOT one Chizik Defense (all players not named Fairly) the last 4 years tackled a RB correctly? There are lots of questions we should be asking.
But as in the other thread, I def don't think a "burn him at the stake!" or the opposite, "read the creed! no criticism is allowed" perspective is the correct way to look at this. Emotions are running rampant at the moment.
Maybe Chizik hasn't taught them to be tough? Just guessing...
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My only concern at this point is whether the helmets are lined up correctly.
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I don't know who's fault the QB situation is...I do know this though...
Third and 8...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292322.jpg)
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292324.jpg)
What the fuck? I know that Bray has to be who this play is designed for. It is a complete misdirection and Bray is the ONLY one on the right side. How do you miss your first option? I don't get it.
I have also seen a picture on twitter that I can't find anymore that has Holland playing close to 12 yards off the line of scrimmage before the ball is snapped. What the fuck is that? Is that Holland or coaching? I have never seen that shit before in my life...
Agree. Good points.
The coaches HAVE to see this shit in film.....right?
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I don't know who's fault the QB situation is...I do know this though...
Third and 8...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292322.jpg)
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1292324.jpg)
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
That's just abysmal. At least Moseley as horrible as he was waited until the rush was actually coming at him before he turned into a turtle and fell down.
Look at Frazier's pussy ass body language in the second frame. Fuck standing in, stepping up and making a throw. He looks like motherfucking Scooby Doo when he sees the Creeper's shadow.
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Maybe Chizik hasn't taught them to be tough? Just guessing...
They sure as hell don't look it. I still see half assing. I still see hesitation (especially Holland). I thought BVG would fix a ton of that. Is CGC getting Tubs like and too into Asst Coaches' biz? I wish I knew the answers.
One part of me keeps thinking in the back of my mind that Chizik, while a great guy and leader, is perhaps the avg HEAD coach that many thought he was. We are just now starting to see it. Perhaps, Fairly, Newton, Malzahn, even Todd - all helped to cover this for a while. Maybe he caught the perfect storm and lightning in a bottle with 2010. Maybe he is just Larry Coker but a better recruiter. I really wish I knew. But thats the train of thought I am starting to lean to.
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My only concern at this point is whether the helmets are lined up correctly.
Yes, we know youve been holding all of this in for 3 years. Get it on out. Say I told you so when the something bad has finally happened. Make yourself feel better. You were right, blah blah fucking blah. Saying this kind of shit is just as asinine as the creed thumpers.
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Yes, we know youve been holding all of this in for 3 years. Get it on out. Say I told you so when the something bad has finally happened. Make yourself feel better. You were right, blah blah fucking blah. Saying this kind of shit is just as asinine as the creed thumpers.
Bullshit.
Kaos had changed his tune and defended Chizik, as had I. But there is obviously something wrong. And it is exactly what everyone made fun of Auburn for after the hire. I think this falls squarely on the HC and until he gets this shit turned around and Auburn looks like they are making progress, I will be on the Fire Chizik train. Auburn has progressively gotten worse and that shit is not supposed to happen.
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Yes, we know youve been holding all of this in for 3 years. Get it on out. Say I told you so when the something bad has finally happened. Make yourself feel better. You were right, blah blah fucking blah. Saying this kind of shit is just as asinine as the creed thumpers.
Eat shit, shit it back out, eat it again and die you on the rag bitch.
Recognize sarcasm when it's offered.
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Bullshit.
Kaos had changed his tune and defended Chizik, as had I. But there is obviously something wrong. And it is exactly what everyone made fun of Auburn for after the hire. I think this falls squarely on the HC and until he gets this shit turned around and Auburn looks like they are making progress, I will be on the Fire Chizik train. Auburn has progressively gotten worse and that shit is not supposed to happen.
No youre right, it does fall on him. Kaos just likes to show up at opportune times to get his true feelings out. Of course he defended Chizik when things were good. Now that things have gone south, he's back with the same rhetorical bullshit he was spewing when he was hired. It's not that he isn't right. It's just the same ill timed song and dance like Greasy Weasel.
And I am talking some real critical thinking material here. :taunt:
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No youre right, it does fall on him. Kaos just likes to show up at opportune times to get his true feelings out. Of course he defended Chizik when things were good. Now that things have gone south, he's back with the same rhetorical bullshit he was spewing when he was hired. It's not that he isn't right. It's just the same ill timed song and dance like Greasy Weasel.
And I am talking some real critical thinking material here. :taunt:
Go suck on your tampax rag.
Pathetic how oblivious you are in this case. I thought the helmet line was funny. Needed dash of humor. Sorry you missed it.
I'm here pretty much all the time and my feelings such as they are are on display daily.
Eat a dick, thin-skinned bitch.
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Eat shit, shit it back out, eat it again and die you on the rag bitch.
Recognize sarcasm when it's offered.
Again, the same song and dance. When someone calls your bullshit you find a quick cop out. You're fickle as hell. Last week all you fuckers were criticizing Clay Travis for saying the same things you are now saying. I posted that shit last week because I had a weird feeling about it. It was the first time I didn't TOTALLY disagree with it. And damn if all of y'all didnt bust up in that thread on the rag pissed about what he said. Wow, what a difference 6 days made.
I think you are the only one who finds your Junior High "humor" funny. Of course with your distorted and elevated opinion of yourself, I doubt this to be the case.
Oh, you forgot a 5-19 joke.
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Go suck on your tampax rag.
Pathetic how oblivious you are in this case. I thought the helmet line was funny. Needed dash of humor. Sorry you missed it.
I'm here pretty much all the time and my feelings such as they are are on display daily.
Eat a dick, thin-skinned bitch.
I got it. Just wasn't funny. Because it's been used 17,000 times.
You pitching a hissy fit talking of feelings and saying someone else is thin skinned and on the rag = IRONY.
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Wow, what a difference 6 days made.
You are missing the whole point? It was a difference that 3 hours made. 3 hours of pure shittyness in which things don't look like they are getting better. If Auburn had lost but looked even remotely close to a decent team, you wouldn't see any of this today...
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Agree. Good points.
The coaches HAVE to see this shit in film.....right?
So? The coaches see it on film? Sure they fucking see it! Frazier sees it on film....Sunday. They coach it again, they go through his progressions in film, and practice, then the next Saturday, they run the play, and Frazier shits the bed again, and jmar talks about how shitty the play calling is.
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You are missing the whole point? It was a difference that 3 hours made. 3 hours of pure shittyness in which things don't look like they are getting better. If Auburn had lost but looked even remotely close to a decent team, you wouldn't see any of this today...
100% this^^^
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You are missing the whole point? It was a difference that 3 hours made. 3 hours of pure shittyness in which things don't look like they are getting better. If Auburn had lost but looked even remotely close to a decent team, you wouldn't see any of this today...
So one game...ONE GAME made you do a total 180? You didn't see this coming? Youve played College ball so I know thats hard to believe.
Many people used the close Clemson score as their saving grace. Nevermind they wanted to ignore they were without their All American WR and dropped about 37 catches. It could have been worse. We got our lone Offensive TD via blown coverage. I had a bad feeling before Saturday and this just affirms it. Go read my posts in that thread. I stated that we had a lot of major glaring weaknesses and to try a talk ourselves into thinking we weren't that bad because we only lost to Clemson by 7 was foolish. JR tried to tell everyone that. That game was not that close. And neither was Saturday. I thought it was very bad before Saturday. It's worse than I even thought. I actually believed some of Travis' article I posted. Now, I believe more of it.
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So one game...ONE GAME made you do a total 180? You didn't see this coming? Youve played College ball so I know thats hard to believe.
Many people used the close Clemson score as their saving grace. Nevermind they wanted to ignore they were without their All American WR and dropped about 37 catches. It could have been worse. We got our lone Offensive TD via blown coverage. I had a bad feeling before Saturday and this just affirms it. Go read my posts in that thread. I stated that we had a lot of major glaring weaknesses and to try a talk ourselves into thinking we weren't that bad because we only lost to Clemson by 7 was foolish. JR tried to tell everyone that. That game was not that close. And neither was Saturday. I thought it was very bad before Saturday. It's worse than I even thought. I actually believed some of Travis' article I posted. Now, I believe more of it.
I think everyone agrees, it just took some longer to get there.
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You are missing the whole point? It was a difference that 3 hours made. 3 hours of pure shittyness in which things don't look like they are getting better. If Auburn had lost but looked even remotely close to a decent team, you wouldn't see any of this today...
100000% this.
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So? The coaches see it on film? Sure they fucking see it! Frazier sees it on film....Sunday. They coach it again, they go through his progressions in film, and practice, then the next Saturday, they run the play, and Frazier shits the bed again, and jmar talks about how shitty the play calling is.
I was being somewhat facetious. I guess its the nature of my job to think that way. They have to be seeing what WE!! posted. Ok, we have 1 maybe 2 WR's open or somewhat open. Maybe even 3 if you count Lutz heading the sideline. What was going through your head Kiehl? Why didn't you check to number 1? As someone said, it was an obvious misdirection setup for THAT WR. So why didn't he see him or pass? Thats the kind of question I would love to ask. Root cause. I am not gonna go all Jmar and say its 100% Loeffler's fault. That was actually a good playcall. It appears to have setup the way he wanted but Kiehl didn't execute. WHY?
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100000% this.
I guess I am saying that I was already there before Saturday. Was just hoping for a miracle being a homer and all, as evidenced by the pick em.
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Again, the same song and dance. When someone calls your bullshit you find a quick cop out. You're fickle as hell. Last week all you fuckers were criticizing Clay Travis for saying the same things you are now saying. I posted that shit last week because I had a weird feeling about it. It was the first time I didn't TOTALLY disagree with it. And damn if all of y'all didnt bust up in that thread on the rag pissed about what he said. Wow, what a difference 6 days made.
I think you are the only one who finds your Junior High "humor" funny. Of course with your distorted and elevated opinion of yourself, I doubt this to be the case.
Oh, you forgot a 5-19 joke.
No hissy fit. Just calling you out for being the little bitch you are today.
If you had the capacity to read English motherfucker you'd see that I'm one of the few who hasn't called for anybody's head on the coaching staff, hasn't asked for some kind of epochal sea change and hasn't criticized anything other than Frazier's performances, Holland's performances and some occasional effort issues.
Other than stating the obvious -- it was awful and something needs to change -- ol Kaos has been pretty calm about the whole thing. Yeah I've tossed a few sarcastic shots because what else is there to do, listen to your bitching?
Guess paying attention to anything other than your own wounded feelings is too much to ask. So just eat a dick instead.
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No hissy fit. Just calling you out for being the little bitch you are today.
If you had the capacity to read English motherfucker you'd see that I'm one of the few who hasn't called for anybody's head on the coaching staff, hasn't asked for some kind of epochal sea change and hasn't criticized anything other than Frazier's performances, Holland's performances and some occasional effort issues.
Other than stating the obvious -- it was awful and something needs to change -- ol Kaos has been pretty calm about the whole thing. Yeah I've tossed a few sarcastic shots because what else is there to do, listen to your bitching?
Guess paying attention to anything other than your own wounded feelings is too much to ask. So just eat a dick instead.
So serious question....what do you think is the issue? Systemic? Just player development (ie Kiehl)?
We know there is talent. We know our kickers are on lock down. Our OL is average but doing ok considering. Are Grimes and Boulware the only 2 coaches meeting expectations then? Is Trooper coaching our WRs up to par? Is Chizik too hands on witht he coordinators now? I know this may be fruitless because we have no bearing on the product on the field but it's fair to ask what the hell is going on. I think we all agree this is unacceptable.
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So serious question....what do you think is the issue? Systemic? Just player development (ie Kiehl)?
We know there is talent. We know our kickers are on lock down. Our OL is average but doing ok considering. Are Grimes and Boulware the only 2 coaches meeting expectations then? Is Trooper coaching our WRs up to par? Is Chizik too hands on witht he coordinators now? I know this may be fruitless because we have no bearing on the product on the field but it's fair to ask what the hell is going on. I think we all agree this is unacceptable.
I blame the creed and fans like you.*
*joking
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So serious question....what do you think is the issue? Systemic? Just player development (ie Kiehl)?
We know there is talent. We know our kickers are on lock down. Our OL is average but doing ok considering. Are Grimes and Boulware the only 2 coaches meeting expectations then? Is Trooper coaching our WRs up to par? Is Chizik too hands on witht he coordinators now? I know this may be fruitless because we have no bearing on the product on the field but it's fair to ask what the hell is going on. I think we all agree this is unacceptable.
I want to go on record as saying I'm not calling for a coaching change. I asked why give him one more year in this or another thread, but was questioning that thinking...if you think it's probably time for a change, then why wait? I'm not calling for it. That said, you said it, the product, based on what recruiting is supposed to have been, is completely unacceptable.
Coaching them up? I guarantee you they're (BVG) coaching shedding blocks daily in practice. Holland can't get off a block to save his fucking mother's life. We get gashed on simple power and counter plays between the tackles because Holland is all but invisible. The game is up on replay on ESPN3.com, all you have to do it watch MSU's first two series to see Jake getting his ass handed to him by OL that are doing little more than just getting in his way. He gets totally decleated on one power play in the first series. That's a base run play where he knows, or should know, that the front side OT is coming to block him, and he gets fucking knocked on his ass like it was a total surprise.
The play that WE posted the pic of? We motioned to bunch trips right, and the wide open WR was the late release. Fraziers' outlet. State never even accounted for him. He never even looked at it. If he'd simply half rolled away from pressure, he'd have had an easy completion assuming he could throw it in the same zip code.
Still watching the replay, looking at different things, but have yet to see Chad Slade be the liability that Prowler says he is.
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No hissy fit. Just calling you out for being the little bitch you are today.
If you had the capacity to read English motherfucker you'd see that I'm one of the few who hasn't called for anybody's head on the coaching staff, hasn't asked for some kind of epochal sea change and hasn't criticized anything other than Frazier's performances, Holland's performances and some occasional effort issues.
Other than stating the obvious -- it was awful and something needs to change -- ol Kaos has been pretty calm about the whole thing. Yeah I've tossed a few sarcastic shots because what else is there to do, listen to your bitching?
Guess paying attention to anything other than your own wounded feelings is too much to ask. So just eat a dick instead.
I've stayed out of the fray so far. Two words in this post say it all to me. Frayzher and Hollandaise. At the heart of it all. Forget all the drama and dissention and discipline problems and losing the team and every other angle. If we had a super duper keen AVERAGE QB, even on the level of Barrett Trotter, we may be 2-0 or 1-1 at the very least. Kaleel can't throw it in the ocean while standing at the water's edge. Period. The offense CANNOT function in any way, shape or form while he is playing in full tard mode. Simple. Loeffler, Chizik and the entire team are handcuffed as long as this continues. We are a decent running team that could be a very good running team if there was any threat whatsoever of a pass being completed. There is no threat and we will continue to suffer until there is.
Think about the first half Saturday. What was happening while Kyle was riding the short bus around Starkvegas? The defense manned up and played inspired ball. I was thinking the light was starting to come on. And yes, after MacProne took one to the house, they did let MSU go down the field. But....if you're playing defense and you see that series after series after series...your QB is sitting in the corner drooling on himself...just how inspired are you? If you've been busting your ass and your QB continually hands the ball over to the enemy...and you know your offense has zero chance of scoring...
I agree some personnel need to be shifted around on D. Get Holland out of there and let Frost and/or McKinzey get their athletic asses on the field. Wrong calls or not, we need guys in that position to attack the ball carrier. Wreak some havoc. Even my untrained eye saw Holland frickin' the monkey all day. They took Smith out and started McNeal so so they see some things and are trying to get the right guys in the mix. Also gave T-Bell his first start. I don't think this D is very good. I think they are far better than they've shown. But, if our offense (Fraisierrr) does ANYTHING in either game..just completes a FEW passes, I think the D proves they're better than what they've done so far.
As a result of Frasier's inability to do the simplest of things in the passing game, they basically reduced the offense to about 2-3 simple plays by the second half. I was actually hoping to see Moseley and I MEANT it. I honestly think he is still too hurt to play. No way they don't put him in otherwise.
Bottom line for me...just get an average stiff who can make a few throws and we're sitting here talking strategy for next week.
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I want to go on record as saying I'm not calling for a coaching change. I asked why give him one more year in this or another thread, but was questioning that thinking...if you think it's probably time for a change, then why wait? I'm not calling for it. That said, you said it, the product, based on what recruiting is supposed to have been, is completely unacceptable.
Coaching them up? I guarantee you they're (BVG) coaching shedding blocks daily in practice. Holland can't get off a block to save his fucking mother's life. We get gashed on simple power and counter plays between the tackles because Holland is all but invisible. The game is up on replay on ESPN3.com, all you have to do it watch MSU's first two series to see Jake getting his ass handed to him by OL that are doing little more than just getting in his way. He gets totally decleated on one power play in the first series. That's a base run play where he knows, or should know, that the front side OT is coming to block him, and he gets fucking knocked on his ass like it was a total surprise.
The play that WE posted the pic of? We motioned to bunch trips right, and the wide open WR was the late release. Fraziers' outlet. State never even accounted for him. He never even looked at it. If he'd simply half rolled away from pressure, he'd have had an easy completion assuming he could throw it in the same zip code.
Still watching the replay, looking at different things, but have yet to see Chad Slade be the liability that Prowler says he is.
I don't think the OL is that bad honestly. You are going to get some pressure. Frazier just holds the ball too long.
And honestly, besides Holland, I thought the defense played a little better. Especially in the first half. But Holland is just horrible. HORRIBLE.
So we have a really bad QB and a really bad Mike. That is a bad combination. I am not sure how you correct that if those players are the best you got.
I also think that Auburn is just not mentally or physically tough enough right now. That is on Chizik. You can instill that in players from year 1...much less year 4. There is no excuse for being mentally or physically weak...
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So serious question....what do you think is the issue? Systemic? Just player development (ie Kiehl)?
We know there is talent. We know our kickers are on lock down. Our OL is average but doing ok considering. Are Grimes and Boulware the only 2 coaches meeting expectations then? Is Trooper coaching our WRs up to par? Is Chizik too hands on witht he coordinators now? I know this may be fruitless because we have no bearing on the product on the field but it's fair to ask what the hell is going on. I think we all agree this is unacceptable.
I wish I knew, but whatever it is I don't see an immediate fix.
Frazier is definitely not the answer at quarterback. I thought that last year but kept hoping I was wrong. He makes Kodi Burns look like Aaron Rodgers. Moseley is worse I'm afraid. I hate Trotter left as bad as he was. And you KNOW Neil Caudle is kicking his parents in the face for having him three years too early.
I'm not sure the receivers are that bad or even not being coached well. In that one picture you've got Blake drawing double coverage across the middle, you've got Lutz in his pattern and in the right position and you've got Bray (I think) exactly where he's supposed to be. Any other quarterback in the SEC could make that throw.
YOU could make that throw.
If they are where they are supposed to be -- and granted I haven't broken down any game film -- then the problem reverts back to QB. Cam had no trouble finding open receivers. Neither did Iron Legs Todd. Boy he looks good today, doesn't he?
I think it's just a case of having zero production at quarterback. We don't have anybody AT ALL who can perform at this level. Not sure why that is. Maybe Cam leaving a year early and then not closing Russell Wilson really did wreck the entire plan. Maybe Malzahn just quit teaching or doesn't know how to teach the game (Cam's mechanics were suspect, but he was just freak enough to overcome). But I do know this. If you have a QB who can't get the ball to open receivers, you're not going to get the kind of talent at receiver that can get open down the road.
Defensively I really think Chizik likes the bend but don't break concept. I don't. He's been successful and guided some tremendous defenses as DC but if you look at his HC gigs (not to go all 5-19) the defenses have been awful. 2005 ISU gives up 230 points. 2006 they give up 369. Under Chizik 381 and 430. Rhoads comes in and it goes back to 284. To be fair the last two ISU teams gave up 346 and 382. Only two other ISU teams in history gave up more than 430 in a year. Third worst defense in the history of a horrible program. Three of the worst defenses in Auburn history. You have to wonder why.
I don't know the answer. If we burn Chizik now who is really going to want to come to the program? We might HAVE to take a chance on somebody like Petrino who needs us as much as we need him.
Would you want to take over the program?
Bowden: Wins a record 20-straight games. Fired/quit during his first losing season.
Tuberville: Beats UA six straight times. Undefeated in 2004 (best team in the country). Four first round draft picks. Wins 11 games in 2006. Has first losing season in ten years and is fired/quits.
Chizik: Wins a NC. Recruits like a motherfucker. Coaches a Heisman winner. May have a losing season ???
What does that say?
Is it the Bryant curse? All three won the national coach of the year award. All three fielded an undefeated team.
Short answer? I don't know. I'm disappointed in the way things are and based on what I saw Saturday not hopeful that it can improve much. Too many things were awry to fix them all. Just don't see any easy answers.
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I've stayed out of the fray so far. Two words in this post say it all to me. Frayzher and Hollandaise. At the heart of it all. Forget all the drama and dissention and discipline problems and losing the team and every other angle. If we had a super duper keen AVERAGE QB, even on the level of Barrett Trotter, we may be 2-0 or 1-1 at the very least. Kaleel can't throw it in the ocean while standing at the water's edge. Period. The offense CANNOT function in any way, shape or form while he is playing in full tard mode. Simple. Loeffler, Chizik and the entire team are handcuffed as long as this continues. We are a decent running team that could be a very good running team if there was any threat whatsoever of a pass being completed. There is no threat and we will continue to suffer until there is.
Think about the first half Saturday. What was happening while Kyle was riding the short bus around Starkvegas? The defense manned up and played inspired ball. I was thinking the light was starting to come on. And yes, after MacProne took one to the house, they did let MSU go down the field. But....if you're playing defense and you see that series after series after series...your QB is sitting in the corner drooling on himself...just how inspired are you? If you've been busting your ass and your QB continually hands the ball over to the enemy...and you know your offense has zero chance of scoring...
I agree some personnel need to be shifted around on D. Get Holland out of there and let Frost and/or McKinzey get their athletic asses on the field. Wrong calls or not, we need guys in that position to attack the ball carrier. Wreak some havoc. Even my untrained eye saw Holland frickin' the monkey all day. They took Smith out and started McNeal so so they see some things and are trying to get the right guys in the mix. Also gave T-Bell his first start. I don't think this D is very good. I think they are far better than they've shown. But, if our offense (Fraisierrr) does ANYTHING in either game..just completes a FEW passes, I think the D proves they're better than what they've done so far.
As a result of Frasier's inability to do the simplest of things in the passing game, they basically reduced the offense to about 2-3 simple plays by the second half. I was actually hoping to see Moseley and I MEANT it. I honestly think he is still too hurt to play. No way they don't put him in otherwise.
Bottom line for me...just get an average stiff who can make a few throws and we're sitting here talking strategy for next week.
haha...it's like we are the same person except I just don't care...
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I don't think the OL is that bad honestly. You are going to get some pressure. Frazier just holds the ball too long.
And honestly, besides Holland, I thought the defense played a little better. Especially in the first half. But Holland is just horrible. HORRIBLE.
THIS^^^!! Both points.
I think Frazier makes the OL look worse than they are. They can only protect him for so long.
And Holland? I don't know how someone sitting on the sideline (a blue chip at that) can be any WORSE! You could stand there and do nothing and it wouldn't be worse. Better yet, we could remove Holland from the game and field 10 men on D and I dont think it would get much worse from a Mike perspective.
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I wish I knew, but whatever it is I don't see an immediate fix.
Frazier is definitely not the answer at quarterback. I thought that last year but kept hoping I was wrong. He makes Kodi Burns look like Aaron Rodgers. Moseley is worse I'm afraid. I hate Trotter left as bad as he was. And you KNOW Neil Caudle is kicking his parents in the face for having him three years too early.
I'm not sure the receivers are that bad or even not being coached well. In that one picture you've got Blake drawing double coverage across the middle, you've got Lutz in his pattern and in the right position and you've got Bray (I think) exactly where he's supposed to be. Any other quarterback in the SEC could make that throw.
YOU could make that throw.
If they are where they are supposed to be -- and granted I haven't broken down any game film -- then the problem reverts back to QB. Cam had no trouble finding open receivers. Neither did Iron Legs Todd. Boy he looks good today, doesn't he?
I think it's just a case of having zero production at quarterback. We don't have anybody AT ALL who can perform at this level. Not sure why that is. Maybe Cam leaving a year early and then not closing Russell Wilson really did wreck the entire plan. Maybe Malzahn just quit teaching or doesn't know how to teach the game (Cam's mechanics were suspect, but he was just freak enough to overcome). But I do know this. If you have a QB who can't get the ball to open receivers, you're not going to get the kind of talent at receiver that can get open down the road.
Defensively I really think Chizik likes the bend but don't break concept. I don't. He's been successful and guided some tremendous defenses as DC but if you look at his HC gigs (not to go all 5-19) the defenses have been awful. 2005 ISU gives up 230 points. 2006 they give up 369. Under Chizik 381 and 430. Rhoads comes in and it goes back to 284. To be fair the last two ISU teams gave up 346 and 382. Only two other ISU teams in history gave up more than 430 in a year. Third worst defense in the history of a horrible program. Three of the worst defenses in Auburn history. You have to wonder why.
I don't know the answer. If we burn Chizik now who is really going to want to come to the program? We might HAVE to take a chance on somebody like Petrino who needs us as much as we need him.
Would you want to take over the program?
Bowden: Wins a record 20-straight games. Fired/quit during his first losing season.
Tuberville: Beats UA six straight times. Undefeated in 2004 (best team in the country). Four first round draft picks. Wins 11 games in 2006. Has first losing season in ten years and is fired/quits.
Chizik: Wins a NC. Recruits like a motherfucker. Coaches a Heisman winner. May have a losing season ???
What does that say?
Is it the Bryant curse? All three won the national coach of the year award. All three fielded an undefeated team.
Short answer? I don't know. I'm disappointed in the way things are and based on what I saw Saturday not hopeful that it can improve much. Too many things were awry to fix them all. Just don't see any easy answers.
Now that's a response. Good stuff.
And yes, even going back to ISU, the fact that Chiz's defenses give up boocoodles of points is bewildering especially considering he was one hell of a DC. I'm almost to the point where I am as confused as I am mad. With Tot and Tubs I could put a finger on it somewhat, as to what the issues were. I just can't quite figure out what the heck is going on with Chizik.
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I don't think the OL is that bad honestly. You are going to get some pressure. Frazier just holds the ball too long.
And honestly, besides Holland, I thought the defense played a little better. Especially in the first half. But Holland is just horrible. HORRIBLE.
So we have a really bad QB and a really bad Mike. That is a bad combination. I am not sure how you correct that if those players are the best you got.
I also think that Auburn is just not mentally or physically tough enough right now. That is on Chizik. You can instill that in players from year 1...much less year 4. There is no excuse for being mentally or physically weak...
Agree, except that I don't know how to tell, from TV that we're mentally/physically not tough. It may be true, and it's on Chiz if it is.
The QB of the offense and defense are the biggest liabilities we have on each side of the ball. Bad ju ju, and I'm with you, I don't know how you fix it if they simply can't play at this level.
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I wish I knew, but whatever it is I don't see an immediate fix.
Frazier is definitely not the answer at quarterback. I thought that last year but kept hoping I was wrong. He makes Kodi Burns look like Aaron Rodgers. Moseley is worse I'm afraid. I hate Trotter left as bad as he was. And you KNOW Neil Caudle is kicking his parents in the face for having him three years too early.
I'm not sure the receivers are that bad or even not being coached well. In that one picture you've got Blake drawing double coverage across the middle, you've got Lutz in his pattern and in the right position and you've got Bray (I think) exactly where he's supposed to be. Any other quarterback in the SEC could make that throw.
YOU could make that throw.
If they are where they are supposed to be -- and granted I haven't broken down any game film -- then the problem reverts back to QB. Cam had no trouble finding open receivers. Neither did Iron Legs Todd. Boy he looks good today, doesn't he?
I think it's just a case of having zero production at quarterback. We don't have anybody AT ALL who can perform at this level. Not sure why that is. Maybe Cam leaving a year early and then not closing Russell Wilson really did wreck the entire plan. Maybe Malzahn just quit teaching or doesn't know how to teach the game (Cam's mechanics were suspect, but he was just freak enough to overcome). But I do know this. If you have a QB who can't get the ball to open receivers, you're not going to get the kind of talent at receiver that can get open down the road.
Defensively I really think Chizik likes the bend but don't break concept. I don't. He's been successful and guided some tremendous defenses as DC but if you look at his HC gigs (not to go all 5-19) the defenses have been awful. 2005 ISU gives up 230 points. 2006 they give up 369. Under Chizik 381 and 430. Rhoads comes in and it goes back to 284. To be fair the last two ISU teams gave up 346 and 382. Only two other ISU teams in history gave up more than 430 in a year. Third worst defense in the history of a horrible program. Three of the worst defenses in Auburn history. You have to wonder why.
I don't know the answer. If we burn Chizik now who is really going to want to come to the program? We might HAVE to take a chance on somebody like Petrino who needs us as much as we need him.
Would you want to take over the program?
Bowden: Wins a record 20-straight games. Fired/quit during his first losing season.
Tuberville: Beats UA six straight times. Undefeated in 2004 (best team in the country). Four first round draft picks. Wins 11 games in 2006. Has first losing season in ten years and is fired/quits.
Chizik: Wins a NC. Recruits like a motherfucker. Coaches a Heisman winner. May have a losing season ???
What does that say?
Is it the Bryant curse? All three won the national coach of the year award. All three fielded an undefeated team.
Short answer? I don't know. I'm disappointed in the way things are and based on what I saw Saturday not hopeful that it can improve much. Too many things were awry to fix them all. Just don't see any easy answers.
In 3 days of bitching, moaning, creed slinging, and crying...this post says all that needs to be said. But more will be said.
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In 3 days of bitching, moaning, creed slinging, and crying...this post says all that needs to be said. But more will be said.
But I didn't even get to mention hats OR cattle. WTF? It's over?
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But I didn't even get to mention hats OR cattle. WTF? It's over?
or Sancho.
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But I didn't even get to mention hats OR cattle. WTF? It's over?
You had your chance, just like Frazier did on that 3rd and 9 play. At least you made some sort of play.
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or Sancho.
Sweet. Forgot that one.
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I wish I knew, but whatever it is I don't see an immediate fix.
Frazier is definitely not the answer at quarterback. I thought that last year but kept hoping I was wrong. He makes Kodi Burns look like Aaron Rodgers. Moseley is worse I'm afraid. I hate Trotter left as bad as he was. And you KNOW Neil Caudle is kicking his parents in the face for having him three years too early.
I'm not sure the receivers are that bad or even not being coached well. In that one picture you've got Blake drawing double coverage across the middle, you've got Lutz in his pattern and in the right position and you've got Bray (I think) exactly where he's supposed to be. Any other quarterback in the SEC could make that throw.
YOU could make that throw.
If they are where they are supposed to be -- and granted I haven't broken down any game film -- then the problem reverts back to QB. Cam had no trouble finding open receivers. Neither did Iron Legs Todd. Boy he looks good today, doesn't he?
I think it's just a case of having zero production at quarterback. We don't have anybody AT ALL who can perform at this level. Not sure why that is. Maybe Cam leaving a year early and then not closing Russell Wilson really did wreck the entire plan. Maybe Malzahn just quit teaching or doesn't know how to teach the game (Cam's mechanics were suspect, but he was just freak enough to overcome). But I do know this. If you have a QB who can't get the ball to open receivers, you're not going to get the kind of talent at receiver that can get open down the road.
Defensively I really think Chizik likes the bend but don't break concept. I don't. He's been successful and guided some tremendous defenses as DC but if you look at his HC gigs (not to go all 5-19) the defenses have been awful. 2005 ISU gives up 230 points. 2006 they give up 369. Under Chizik 381 and 430. Rhoads comes in and it goes back to 284. To be fair the last two ISU teams gave up 346 and 382. Only two other ISU teams in history gave up more than 430 in a year. Third worst defense in the history of a horrible program. Three of the worst defenses in Auburn history. You have to wonder why.
I don't know the answer. If we burn Chizik now who is really going to want to come to the program? We might HAVE to take a chance on somebody like Petrino who needs us as much as we need him.
Would you want to take over the program?
Bowden: Wins a record 20-straight games. Fired/quit during his first losing season.
Tuberville: Beats UA six straight times. Undefeated in 2004 (best team in the country). Four first round draft picks. Wins 11 games in 2006. Has first losing season in ten years and is fired/quits.
Chizik: Wins a NC. Recruits like a motherfucker. Coaches a Heisman winner. May have a losing season ???
What does that say?
Is it the Bryant curse? All three won the national coach of the year award. All three fielded an undefeated team.
Short answer? I don't know. I'm disappointed in the way things are and based on what I saw Saturday not hopeful that it can improve much. Too many things were awry to fix them all. Just don't see any easy answers.
This is dead on target Kaos.
Here is where I look to coaching and see a potential problem. They are sticking with these guys. I am average Joe nobody and the mistakes being made by Kiehl IMO are not fixable in practice. It is the same throws he was making last year. I am not a 2nd QB is the best type of guy, but I don't understand why you keep trying to stick with something that isn't working.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
I don't think Moseley is the answer, I really don't think Wallace is either, but make the change. Put them in, put Wallace in if Moseley is hurt. It doesn't make sense to me. Spurrier was classic for pulling a QB if it wasn't working, we do it for the other positions with out even batting an eye...do it for QB too. My gerd can it hurt to try? It can't get any worse.
If I can see it...why the fuck can't they?
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I don't think Moseley is the answer, I really don't think Frazier is either, but make the change. Put them in, put Frazier in if Moseley is hurt. Trotter is just horrible.
Modified!
This is like dejavu all over again!
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3rd and 19 and we call a Qb draw up the middle that tells me all I need to know about our coaching staff.
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3rd and 19 and we call a Qb draw up the middle that tells me all I need to know about our coaching staff.
From our own 10 yard line with a QB that had more interceptions than completions at that point...
Not that cut and dry...
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3rd and 19 and we call a Qb draw up the middle that tells me all I need to know about our coaching staff.
Tells me more what our staff thinks about Frazier.
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3rd and 19 and we call a Qb draw up the middle that tells me all I need to know about our coaching staff.
That was the one call I agreed with.
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Modified!
This is like dejavu all over again!
I agree...again it is on the coaches who recruited these guys. 4 years...no viable option at the QB position?!?
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This is dead on target Kaos.
Here is where I look to coaching and see a potential problem. They are sticking with these guys. I am average Joe nobody and the mistakes being made by Kiehl IMO are not fixable in practice. It is the same throws he was making last year. I am not a 2nd QB is the best type of guy, but I don't understand why you keep trying to stick with something that isn't working.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
I don't think Moseley is the answer, I really don't think Wallace is either, but make the change. Put them in, put Wallace in if Moseley is hurt. It doesn't make sense to me. Spurrier was classic for pulling a QB if it wasn't working, we do it for the other positions with out even batting an eye...do it for QB too. My gerd can it hurt to try? It can't get any worse.
If I can see it...why the fuck can't they?
Coaching is a double edged sword. The way you get better is reps, reps, reps. Not calling new plays every week. Not drawing shit up in the sand. Doing the same things over and over until you get good at them. I'm not at practice, in meetings, or in the film room. I only know what I see watching the game. You can try to do too much, and be good at nothing. I'm just not convinced that's the case here. Our offense doesn't look like we have a voluminous playbook right now. Yet, Frazier still can't get it done. To agree with you, it looks like he's not capable of getting good at what they're trying to do. 2 options exists when it becomes clear you can't even get close to good at what you're doing with who you're doing it with. Change what you're doing to suit the personnel, or change the personnel you're doing it with.
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That was the one call I agreed with.
Tells me more what our staff thinks about Frazier.
From our own 10 yard line with a QB that had more interceptions than completions at that point...
Not that cut and dry...
^^^This, this, and this.
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Coaching is a double edged sword. The way you get better is reps, reps, reps. Not calling new plays every week. Not drawing shit up in the sand. Doing the same things over and over until you get good at them. I'm not at practice, in meetings, or in the film room. I only know what I see watching the game. You can try to do too much, and be good at nothing. I'm just not convinced that's the case here. Our offense doesn't look like we have a voluminous playbook right now. Yet, Frazier still can't get it done. To agree with you, it looks like he's not capable of getting good at what they're trying to do. 2 options exists when it becomes clear you can't even get close to good at what you're doing with who you're doing it with. Change what you're doing to suit the personnel, or change the personnel you're doing it with.
At this point, I am with GF. Seeing as how it doesn't look like it really can get any worse, why not try a new QB and Mike? In the Wins and Losses columns, you can get much worse than 0-2 in your first two games. I don't see what we lose in at least seeing what the other fellas have. Kiehl is obviously a different QB in the games than he is in practice.
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Honestly, I think the game is two fast for Kiehl.
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I agree...again it is on the coaches who recruited these guys. 4 years...no viable option at the QB position?!?
Our QB development has been quite a perplexing drama for a while now.
We get Rollison who is supposed to be the shiznit and develope one more yeare behind elite 11 Caudle. But something was amiss and Rollison is young so we bring in Cam. Rollison bolts.
Caudle, not horrible. Just not Cam.
Trotter looks great and ready to compete. He freaks after what, 5 games. So with Rollison gone, we have Mosely as the backup. he plays like a Soph 2 star. We did not get lucky. Trotter comes in and looks great in bowl game.
Whew. Trotter is back and will have a great senior season. Hmmm. Trotter says screw it. I'd rather play intramural badminton.
Frazier is touted as the future. Gets some time playing. Can't throw and his running was not spectacular. I never remember seeing a run where I said, "Holy shit this guy can run."
OK. Mean streak Pike comes in early and looks OK as a third or forced second. He is now at UL as a TE???
Mosely hurts shoulder and really cannot compete. Doesn't matter. Still would look like two fat women fighting over a twinky.
So by default, we end up with a QB that is young and has limited experience and still shows it in practice, much less games.
So we are once again down to a young QB. A broke backup and a promising young unknown afterthought (Wallace aka black Moseley?).
So what is it about our program that seems to eat up QBs and turn them into mediocre players...or run them off?
If all was right within our program, Trotter would be back with a vengeance this season.
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Our QB development has been quite a perplexing drama for a while now.
QB development or recruiting...any way you slice that turd it still reeks of coaching. yes..no?
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Our QB development has been quite a perplexing drama for a while now.
We get Rollison who is supposed to be the shiznit and develope one more yeare behind elite 11 Caudle. But something was amiss and Rollison is young so we bring in Cam. Rollison bolts.
Caudle, not horrible. Just not Cam.
Trotter looks great and ready to compete. He freaks after what, 5 games. So with Rollison gone, we have Mosely as the backup. he plays like a Soph 2 star. We did not get lucky. Trotter comes in and looks great in bowl game.
Whew. Trotter is back and will have a great senior season. Hmmm. Trotter says screw it. I'd rather play intramural badminton.
Frazier is touted as the future. Gets some time playing. Can't throw and his running was not spectacular. I never remember seeing a run where I said, "Holy shit this guy can run."
OK. Mean streak Pike comes in early and looks OK as a third or forced second. He is now at UL as a TE???
Mosely hurts shoulder and really cannot compete. Doesn't matter. Still would look like two fat women fighting over a twinky.
So by default, we end up with a QB that is young and has limited experience and still shows it in practice, much less games.
So we are once again down to a young QB. A broke backup and a promising young unknown afterthought (Wallace aka black Moseley?).
So what is it about our program that seems to eat up QBs and turn them into mediocre players...or run them off?
If all was right within our program, Trotter would be back with a vengeance this season.
I'd kill to have Trotter or Caudle back now.
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I'd kill to have Trotter or Caudle back now.
This. My take on the entire situation. ANY limp dick, average Joe back there who could hit the occasional wide open pass and all we're discussing today is strategy and how we can improve in this area or that.
Oh yeah, and how bad Jake Holland is.
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This. My take on the entire situation. ANY limp dick, average Joe back there who could hit the occasional wide open pass and all we're discussing today is strategy and how we can improve in this area or that.
Oh yeah, and how bad Jake Holland is.
THE CREED
YOU NEEDZ TO READZ IT.
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THE CREED
YOU NEEDZ TO READZ IT.
prayers sent.
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They're just kids. Leave em' the hell alone people
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They're just kids. Leave em' the hell alone people
Jake Holland Creed?
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(http://c0014474.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_e7b0a13)
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And the dude in the grey suit at .07 in the commercial I saw Saturday doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qNDaFTFPI&feature=g-vrec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qNDaFTFPI&feature=g-vrec)
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And the dude in the grey suit at .07 in the commercial I saw Saturday doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qNDaFTFPI&feature=g-vrec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qNDaFTFPI&feature=g-vrec)
Thanks I needed a laugh. Correction though he would like to give you something warm and fuzzy.
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Thanks I needed a laugh. Correction though he would like to give you something warm and fuzzy.
He looked more like he would like to receive than to give.
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He looked more like he would like to receive than to give.
you've got a keen eye for queer guy.
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Does UNA have a QB that can transfer really quick? Part of me wishes Pike was still at Auburn. Watching the replay for a few minutes and comparing to old YouTube vids of Auburn's defense from 2005-2008 and its almost sickening. I would love right now to have Will Herring or hell, even Tray Blackmon. Fuck.
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I agree...again it is on the coaches who recruited these guys. 4 years...no viable option at the QB position?!?
Not necessarily.
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Not necessarily.
I'll bite, how is this?
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I'll bite, how is this?
Coach Loeffler, Coach Martinez & Coach Van Gorder didn't recruit any of the starters.
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Coach Loeffler, Coach Martinez & Coach Van Gorder didn't recruit any of the starters.
That's a loop hole but correct, however the head coach did. Yes we are missing good players at key positions or are not playing them. I will give you that, but can you tell me why we can't develop the players that we do have? The only improvement I have seen is from the offensive line. Is coach Grimes the only one doing his job?
I get some of what you say, but I also see numerous other teams plugging in freshmen some even at QB and having success. Where is the problem with our coaching staff?
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Coach Loeffler, Coach Martinez & Coach Van Gorder didn't recruit any of the starters.
You are correct, however like I said before, it is an excuse. Last time I checked whether it was the spread, pro style, air raid, pistol, run and shoot, west coast offense, hell even the wing T all need a QB with the ability to complete a pass. Be it a 5 yard crossing route or a dump off to the flat. We don't appear to have anyone that can do that.
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Honestly, I think the game is two fast for Kiehl.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. How do the coaches fix it? Take off his no contact Jersey and call pass plays under heavy pressure...allow him to get the feel of pressure, know it's coming, but don't look at it, keep looking downfield and throw to the open receiver. Then run it again and again and again and again and again and again (changing up the pass plays when Frazier throws it to the correct receiver and the blitzes) Fuck, bring in Joe Lee Dunn to help Coach Van Gorder call up the practice blitz packages.
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I say just play a good ole game of bull In the ring with a twist. Frazier in the center, 4 receivers outside the circle, call a number he has to recognize where the player is coming from to hit him and complete a pass to the receiver in that direction.
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I say just play a good ole game of bull In the ring with a twist. Frazier in the center, 4 receivers outside the circle, call a number he has to recognize where the player is coming from to hit him and complete a pass to the receiver in that direction.
I was thinking more along the lines of the Oklahoma Drill, for every incomplete pass or miss read during the live session, it'll be an extra 10 seconds in the center (bring back Eltoro, Blackmon, Fairley, Rosegreen, the Rockers, Takeo, Dansby, Dontarius, T. Will, Groves, Bynes)...he'll learn how to take a lick.
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Coach Loeffler, Coach Martinez & Coach Van Gorder didn't recruit any of the starters.
So? They're coaching them. "Not his players". "Not recruited to fit this system". Bull fucking shit. Far too much is made by talking heads about "players to fit a system". A football player can play football. Are there certain positions that you have "ideal talent sets" you'd like to find and plug in? Yes, but rarely does a coach find a complete player, ie Cam Newton, who could play QB in anything from West Coast Offense, to 5 wide spread passing, to Wishbone Triple Option and be a star. This isn't about "needing players to fit a system". It's about players not living up to potential. And it's too many to chalk up to The Peter Principle.
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it is an excuse.
Yep, and excuses are worthless. I am looking for reasons. And the reasons fall solely on the HC. Period.
And you are correct on your second point - a 6 yard pass to an open WR is a 6 yard pass, regardless of the system. Case in point is WE!!'s screenshot of the play with 1-2 open WRs, and Kiehl crumples like a wrinkled dollar bill.
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Taken from elsewhere...this is telling IMO.
Something is wrong...
I haven't seen it talked about in-depth in here, but according to the stat sheet, AU only used 39 players Saturday (that's a VERY small number). That includes special teams guys such as LS, PK, P, and a few special team guys who never see the field otherwise.
Miss St used 66 players, and blasted us (They had used 50-55 before the end of the 3rd qtr). How is it that AU is playing with 3 straight top 10 classes (according to most all recruiting gurus), and we only have 39 "game ready" players with most of our staff four years in. Dan Mullen, also in his 4th year, has had some staff turnover as well, and he just took 66 players who chose MSU over So. Miss & Kentucky, and beat the dog sh*t out of the only 39 players we had ready out of about 60 who were heavily recruited by FSU, FL, al, LSU, etc etc etc......
Player development is becoming a major concern. We've got around 78 or so, scholarship players, only 17 of which are true freshmen, and we can only get 39 of them ready to face off with "Mississippi State??" Mullen's doing a good job, but not that dang good!! MSU is no threat to win the West. There is absolutely no excuse for AU coaches not having 45-55 players they can rely on against "Miss St."
I'm starting to worry about the fact that we are loaded with big league talented players, (some are in their 3rd or 4th year) who had sick offer lists coming out of high school, sitting on the bench doing absolutely nothing, while most of our Jr & Sr starters would never make the traveling squad at dozens of other places. It's getting old in a hurry.
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Again...something is wrong...
MSU used at least 50 players in the first 3 qtrs.
In the BSC title game last January, alabama used 52 players, LSU used 50.
This past Saturday, Florida used 54 players in a 20-17 road game at TAMU, with a new offensive system. TAMU used 50 players, with every single thing about the program being new.
Those are very typical participation numbers. The smallest number of players being used in a game I've ever seen was 46, until our 39 this past Saturday. Using less than 45-50 players in a college football game is unheard of.
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Taken from elsewhere...this is telling IMO.
Something is wrong...
All good points. Or ehhh, bad points. Painful to read.
I'm fully convinced now that this staff's weak link (aside from Grimes and Boulware), is player development. They seem to be able to recruit like MF'ers. They seem to be able to manage games well when they are given already developed/mature high caliber players (Fairly, Cam, Ziemba, Lutz). But when it comes to filling that gap between the two, making those HS Studs college studs? Nada. It's not hard to see.
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All good points. Or ehhh, bad points. Painful to read.
I'm fully convinced now that this staff's weak link (aside from Grimes and Boulware), is player development. They seem to be able to recruit like MF'ers. They seem to be able to manage games well when they are given already developed/mature high caliber players (Fairly, Cam, Ziemba, Lutz). But when it comes to filling that gap between the two, making those HS Studs college studs? Nada. It's not hard to see.
Exactly what a coaching bud of mine is saying too. I have to agree.
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Something doesn't make sense.
Coach Loeffler = Good QB Coach (OC = ?)
Coach Luper = Good RB Coach
Coach Taylor = Good WR Coach
Coach Bolware = Good TE Coach/Special Teams Coach
Coach Grimes = Good OL Coach
Coach Petition = Decent DL Coach
Coach Thigpen = Good LB Coach
Coach Matrinez = Good Secondary Coach
Coach Van Gorder = Good DC
The only two â€weak links†are the DL Coach and the unknown Coordinating of Coach Loeffler...and we don't have a QB with game experience (Frazier played last year basically as a RB, Moseley apparently has the shoulder of a 80 year old and Wallace is still wet behind the ears).
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Just to pile on Holland...
Looks good to start
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293854.jpg)
But then the play starts. And now the running back has gotten the ball and run 3 yards towards the line and the center has run out and knocked the shit out of Holland, but all Holland has managed to do is crumple up where he originally was.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293857.jpg)
And Holland is nowhere to be found.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293856.jpg)
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Another example? Not sure I can find one. Oh wait...here is one on next play...
A counter play. Why a counter? Not sure. It's not like Holland moved anywhere to start.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293806.jpg)
It at least looks like he is trying to fight through the block huh???
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293831.jpg)
Eh. Not really. He is going to try and just run around and use his speed from the backside again. Notice the back is 5 yards down field now when Jake is at the point of attack...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293835.jpg)
And again...he is nowhere to be found.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293836.jpg)
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How are you getting these stills?
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How are you getting these stills?
His BIL has a keen camera and hangs out in the locker...
Oh, wait, wrong guy.
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How are you getting these stills?
prolly, sucking stat's penis.
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His BIL has a keen camera and hangs out in the locker...
Oh, wait, wrong guy.
He doesn't "Hang out".
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Another example? Not sure I can find one. Oh wait...here is one on next play...
A counter play. Why a counter? Not sure. It's not like Holland moved anywhere to start.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293806.jpg)
It at least looks like he is trying to fight through the block huh???
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293831.jpg)
Eh. Not really. He is going to try and just run around and use his speed from the backside again. Notice the back is 5 yards down field now when Jake is at the point of attack...
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293835.jpg)
And again...he is nowhere to be found.
(http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/884/1293836.jpg)
New drinking game-Wheres Jake on the play? If you don't see him you must drink.
Try and wake up after 1/2 time. :facepalm: