Jesus Hoobastank Christ, Texas already has 20 recruits?
I want to coach there, it must be easy.
Tub's has 11 verbals at Tech.
Texas and aTm leftovers. But I hear they have tremendous upside if they can get their grades up and stay out of trouble.That is what I was alluding to GH and Buzz. There has to be this magic formula of what ifs and what not with Tubby kids.
That is what I was alluding to GH and Buzz. There has to be this magic formula of what ifs and what not with Tubby kids.
There are some 10th graders in Mexico that just need placement, a birth certificate and a passport... ok that's mean!
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Commits:11 ESPNU 150 Commits:0 Top Prospect:RB Kenny Williams
Five-star commits:0 Four-star:3 Three-star:3 Others:5
In all seriousness, I would think that CTT's arrival at Tech would generate at least some recruiting buzz. I know it's probably tough to recruit to a place like that in the first place (So I've heard) but Tuberville is a bog name in college football and it seems logical that the name alone would peek the interest of some higher rated kids. I hope he's not just continuing the trend he fell into at AU.
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Commits:11 ESPNU 150 Commits:0 Top Prospect:RB Kenny Williams
Five-star commits:0 Four-star:3 Three-star:3 Others:5
In all seriousness, I would think that CTT's arrival at Tech would generate at least some recruiting buzz. I know it's probably tough to recruit to a place like that in the first place (So I've heard) but Tuberville is a bog name in college football and it seems logical that the name alone would peek the interest of some higher rated kids. I hope he's not just continuing the trend he fell into at AU.
Tubs hired yet another Air Raid guru precisely because TT is acccustomed to a high octain offense.
This is what's going to be interesting to watch next season. Will Tubs be able to let the OC do his job, or will he start reigning in the offense when they get up a couple of scores?
I have talked with some of the TT fans that are in the Dallas area, they are extremely nervous about tubs sitting on a 14-0 lead and his seeming lack of get up and go for recruiting. From my understanding he has not been to the Dallas area, yet.
I know what I've been told about this hire by folks close to Neal Brown. And I know what happened at Auburn in 2008. We shall see if a leopard can change his spots.
I am interested to hear what you know...
I am interested to hear what you know...
I stay in email contact now and again with Tony Franklin...do you want to know more than that?
I stay in email contact now and again with Tony Franklin...do you want to know more than that?
Of course. Spill it.
Name dropper.
I would be curious to know his true take on Tuberville's "methods" when it comes to handling his coaches and the overall program. Initially, I always had the impression of TT as the CEO who hired his guys and let them do their thing while he was overseeing the big picture. In the practices I went to over the years, I rarely saw him out there and when he was, he was just glad handing and shooting the bull with people. He would sometimes do a post practice talk but little else.
It became apparent later (My perception only) that he tried to/did control everything to a point that he even stifled game plans. Borges said as much after the 04' LSU game. He said they went in there with a game plan that he knew would run LSU off the field but at the last second, Tubby told him to go ultra conservative because of the high winds that day. It was like Borges was saying, We won....but..."
I've always wondered how those relationships really worked, especially during the game.
He knows what kind of kids will go to Lubbock.
Leach was able to gets some kids out there. And, once again what I have been told, (bar talk) is that most of the kids enjoyed playing for leach. of course -1.
Regardless of the fact that Tubbs left the depth chart in shambles, I still hope he does well at TTech.
I could honestly careless if the sunofabeech does well. Screw him, were in a new era now in Auburn athletics that is better.(http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr185/johnofbham/Classic%20tv/Chuck20Norris.jpg)
I could honestly careless if the sunofabeech does well. Screw him, were in a new era now in Auburn athletics that is better.
I could honestly careless if the sunofabeech does well. Screw him, were in a new era now in Auburn athletics that is better.
I'll go out on a limb and say that you're probably in the minority with this opinion.I can relate.
Most people I talk to still like Tubs, revere him for most of his time on the Plains, and wish him well (unless his success comes at our expense).
I can relate.And for some strange reason :rolleyes: I feel obligated to halfway defend him whenever this gets rehashed. Can't help myself!
I'll go out on a limb and say that you're probably in the minority with this opinion.
Most people I talk to still like Tubs, revere him for most of his time on the Plains, and wish him well (unless his success comes at our expense).
I may be. But its how I feel.
The Tubs haters give him a pass on the '99 season, then from his tenure they recall Fred Talley romp through Jordan-Hare and the 2008 season, and can recall little else, and almost nothing positive. Sad really.Yeah, thats it. You got it. Thats exactly why I dont care for him. You are so intelligent JR.
Yeah, thats it. You got it. Thats exactly why I dont care for him. You are so intelligent JR.
Yeah, thats it. You got it. Thats exactly why I dont care for him. You are so intelligent JR.
I only go by what I hear a majority of Tubs haters say...I'd love to hear something different.
Actually only the 2008 season sticks out as valid amongst anything you mentioned for me. The mutiny that was created on the staff with the Franklin debacle was all on him. You could spot that disaster a mile away.
But the loyalty to the complacent staff, lack luster recruiting, highest attrition rate in the SEC and the general malaise he showed the last 2-3 years along with the decline in SEC record from 2004 to 2008 - all are factors to me. I never liked his refusal to put the foot on the throat when ahead in a game. The "jump out to a 14-0 and hang on for dear life" in game management never suited me much. There are more things but these are the biggies to me. Its pretty apparent that when Saban had been at Bama for a year that Tubs had no more energy left and knew he couldnt compete. Franklin was a mere desperation move and it back fired in a huge way.
I think most everyone on both sides of this "debate" actually agree.
I don't want his legacy to be attached to the TTU job. I want him to be remembered in the grand scheme of things by the general public as Auburn's head coach, that ended his career at TTU. Not TTU's savior that started his career at AU.
My $0.02.
Change the scenerio: If you had to work for a man you actually liked, who stood up for you on several occaisions and you were welcome at his home, even witnessed a failed coup attempt on his job and some personal troubles on the side, wouldn't you respect him more for going down with the ship than to start tossing his men overboard?
I just don't think we can be objective about a position like that. There was a loyalty there. Now he could have reversed fields and dug his way out of the Franklin hire but it would be very difficult. He actually did everyone involved a huge favor by cutting away cleanly, got paid, and kept his mouth shut.
While I agree, the problem starts with getting too familiar with your ACs to begin with. And keeping ACs around that have no REAL ambition to move up and out to better jobs. In coaching, at this level, I think you're better off to surround yourself with young whipper snappers that want to move up. Hungry, eager to make their mark, and to help them do so. You want guys that are loyal to you, and will support your philosophy, even if they don't really agree with it, in order to win, and as a result help themselves better themselves. What Tubs had was a bunch of guys that knew that if there were philisophical differences on the staff that they'd survive and the "outsider" would take the blame and the fall.I agree with that. But it really can't be both ways. Do we not brag about continuity presently? No one wants to lose Malzahn. What if there is a MNC won here very soon. When any AC is here 5 years is he considered old guard? What if they like coaching here, love Auburn, raise families here. Are they not ambitious enough or do they choose stability? Chizik can always add some new blood to do leg work. But the core is just what it means, the heart and soul. It's a statement of sorts: This is who we are, this is our philosophy.
I agree with that. But it really can't be both ways. Do we not brag about continuity presently? No one wants to lose Malzahn. What if there is a MNC won here very soon. When any AC is here 5 years is he considered old guard? What if they like coaching here, love Auburn, raise families here. Are they not ambitious enough or do they choose stability? Chizik can always add some new blood to do leg work. But the core is just what it means, the heart and soul. It's a statement of sorts: This is who we are, this is our philosophy.
I think many confuse stagnation with continuity. A good CEO can maintain continuity through changes in personnel. Complacency arises when people get too comfortable.Perhaps some do. But what's wrong with: I coach the offensive line for the SEC West Division Champs, the Auburn Tigers. Yep, been at it for 5 years and lovin' every minute of it. Am I complacent because I choose not to go to Jacksonville St. for a coordinator job to "make my mark?"
I think many confuse stagnation with continuity. A good CEO can maintain continuity through changes in personnel. Complacency arises when people get too comfortable.
In hindsight, Tubs has been shown up with the current cruiten coaches. It has been damn amazing what these guys have done and are doing. It's called revolution. As an individual though, I still like Tubs and yes, he did get being the HC at Auburn and what it meant to be an Auburn Tiger.
If Chiz keeps the current pace in recruiting, it blows anything Tubs did off the map. Not even close. These guys are going after big game.
If Chiz keeps the current pace in recruiting, it blows anything Tubs did off the map. Not even close. These guys are going after big game.
Gonna have to disagree there. Tubs and Co. recruited that group on the 2003-2005 teams. I think all but maybe one or 2 of the offensive side of the ball on the 2004 squad made NFL rosters, and we all know about Jason, Carnell and Ronnie.
Talking on paper, pure talent. A lot of Tubs' guys over achieved - and thats ok too.
Most of those guys on the 2004 team were highly recruited big names, not diamond in the rough over-acheivers.
Fact is, when they were new, hungry, and trying to impress, that was as a fine recruiting staff as there was, but they had a lot of quit in them.
I think Kaos said it right when he would say that after 2003/jetgate, Tubs had them over a barrel at that point. Plus it may have taken some fight out of him. Who knows. But he was paid good money to NOT quit and the fans supported him. And they quit on us anyway.
Jetgate! Not sure how that effects the psyche of one in that kind of position.
ee Mark Richt for reference. His 2 SEC Titles have become a distant memory, and his 2008 campaign of 10-3 was a major disappointment from the #1 pre-season pick, then last year's 8 win mark won't do at all. It's obvious his talent has fallen off somewhat, and probably is a product of just getting tired, complacent, and needing a break, which we don't allow SEC coaches.
Uh...here's why I say Richt is notorious for squandering talent.
UGA's Rivals Recruiting Class Rankings:
2002 - #3
2003 - #6
2004 - #6
2005 - #10
2006 - #4
2007 - #9
2008 - #7
2009 - #6
His classes dipped from 03-05, sharply increased in '06, and have been steadily improving since '07. Nary a class outside the top 10 in 8 years...and still can't do anything with the kids.
See jmar - now you're gonna make me defend Tubs. Imagine your boss secretly trying to get rid of you and going to find your replacement before he has actually fired you. Then - everyone finds out and you find out. At that point you are asked if you want to stay in your job, knowing they just tried to rid of you and the only reason you still have a job is because it leaked out, otherwise you would be unemployed. How can that NOT affect one's psyche. I think it was in his head the rest of his time in Auburn.Exactly! Jesus who can overcome that? He did have 'em over a barrel as Kaos stated, but don't you have to sleep with one eye open after that?
Uh...here's why I say Richt is notorious for squandering talent.
UGA's Rivals Recruiting Class Rankings:
2002 - #3
2003 - #6
2004 - #6
2005 - #10
2006 - #4
2007 - #9
2008 - #7
2009 - #6
His classes dipped from 03-05, sharply increased in '06, and have been steadily improving since '07. Nary a class outside the top 10 in 8 years...and still can't do anything with the kids.
Squandering talent, and having it drop off are two different issues. One is coaching, the other recruiting.
Year, record/sec, bowl, coaches and ap final poll
2001 8–4/5–3 T–3rd (East) L Music City 25 22
2002 13–1/7–1 1st (East) W Sugar † 3 3
2003 11–3/6–2 T–1st (East) W Capital One 6 7
2004 10–2/6–2 2nd (East) W Outback 6 7
2005 10–3/6–2 1st (East) L Sugar † 10 10
2006 9–4/4–4 T–3rd (East) W Chick-fil-A — 23
2007 11–2/6–2 T–1st (East) W Sugar † 3 2
2008 10–3/6–2 2nd (East) W Capital One 10 13
2009 8–5/4–4 T–2nd (East) W Independence — —
Finished out of the top 10 three times, including year one. In fact, his only real drop off was last year, after losing an overall #1 draft pick at QB, and a first rounder at RB. I've always said this, and will continue...if at Auburn, we could maintain 8 wins as a low water mark, I'd keep a coach that could do that, AND compete for the SEC and win one for every 8 win "down season". In coaching and in football, poop happens...you can't, no coach can, maintain championship level talent and play EVERY year.
With the talent we had in the same span? Hell yes....but with their talent? I would expect more.Hence my argument for talent over schemes. Bo, Deion and others force one to alter schemes. I rest!
Hence my argument for talent over schemes. Bo, Deion and others force one to alter schemes. I rest!
Talent beats schemes every day, well certain exceptions like the bammer vs Utah Sugar Bowl beat down.Dammit I like you JR; you're verbose and you will argue till the cows come home. Then when I think you'll buck-up, you go all agreeable. This is home to me even though I post on several sights. The SN site is very regional, Big Ten and Pac Ten infighting and SEC hatred, but it's very sterile which is why this suits me moreso.I'm into the spirit rather than the letter. Another AU site is a bit too young for me. (I'm 51) I Like everyone here, very diverse opinions though don't know how others take me sometimes. I'm obtuse and play the weird uncle, but it's just out of boredom.
I was reading Urban Meyer's book the other day, and in being questioned early on about his "spread offense" he repeats this "talent over scheme" mantra a lot.
Squandering talent, and having it drop off are two different issues. One is coaching, the other recruiting.
It's obvious his talent has fallen off somewhat
Ok, so let's leave my opinion of Richt's abilities aside and focus on your statement:
After seeing the Rivals' rankings above, do you still maintain that UGA's talent has "fallen off"?
If you believe that Rivals recruiting rankings are an absolute predictor of on the field talent, I'll agree it hasn't fallen off.
This was the point to my post earlier. While there's no way Rivals or Scout can be accurate on every single kid, the overall rankings of a class shouldn't be very far off. 8 years of top 10 means you're phuking stacked across the board. No two ways about it.Papa Bowden swears by Richt's recruiting ability and mourned his loss. Fulmer had strong classes in final rankings too, or that was the perception.
This was the point to my post earlier. While there's no way Rivals or Scout can be accurate on every single kid, the overall rankings of a class shouldn't be very far off. 8 years of top 10 means you're fucking stacked across the board. No two ways about it.
Ok, so let's leave my opinion of Richt's abilities aside and focus on your statement:
After seeing the Rivals' rankings above, do you still maintain that UGA's talent has "fallen off"?
Using your threory, I can make a case that Pete Carroll is one of he biggest squanderers of talent there ever was. Only one undefeated season, and only one BCS Title. He did that in 2004 with a team that only had one 2 10 classes, and they were the underclassmen on the 2004 team. Between 2003 and 2009, he never had a class ranked below 5th, and had three ranked #1 from 04-06. He won exactly jack poop during that time after 2004, save some worthless Pac 10 titles, and in 2006 and 2007 could only manage a tie for the Pac 10 Title. 2009 was one of his more talented teams per Rivals, and they went 9-4/5-4 and placed 5th in the Pac 10.Is that why one hires a Rodney Garner?
However, both of the examples of Richt and Carroll, as well as Tubs support my theory of a coaches professional life at a big time BCS school being max of about 10 years. They just give out under the pressure of high performance being so dissapointing to the fans. They either quit coaching, or quit recruiting, or both.
Dammit I like you JR; you're verbose and you will argue till the cows come home. Then when I think you'll buck-up, you go all agreeable. This is home to me even though I post on several sights. The SN site is very regional, Big Ten and Pac Ten infighting and SEC hatred, but it's very sterile which is why this suits me moreso.I'm into the spirit rather than the letter. Another AU site is a bit too young for me. (I'm 51) I Like everyone here, very diverse opinions though don't know how others take me sometimes. I'm obtuse and play the weird uncle, but it's just out of boredom.
Is that why one hires a Rodney Garner?
I have often said that Tubs could have survived being "retired on duty" if he'd have just hired some young go-getters to do all the hard work and simply been a closer on the recruiting trail, and a CEO. He chose to stay with his buddies who also retired on duty. I also think that Tubs got to involved with playcalling on game day, but thats another story.
An old school defensive mind getting involved in play calling and overriding an OC who has been doing it his whole career. Never made much sense to me.
Well I was a stuck in the veer, a long and slow footed passer that pissed my coach off by inventing my own stuff in the huddle. I got hit on every play as is expected, but found myself getting hit nineteen times on the way down.(fell slowly too) Got my kicks at safety though. (payback) So my knowledge is only on that level from another era.
I was amazed at the stats of KY. and LA. prep kids afterwards. So I love the whole Malzahn thing and chose Bert Jones's 17 starts at LSU to liken Newton's tenure to. I think he has the toughness as a big runner and play making ability on the move. Not sold on his ability to read anything as a pocket passer though. Might be just what Auburn needs to make it all work.
Todd was still rehabbing his shoulder this time last year BTW.
What.I understand about 15% of what this guy posts. I've learned to accept it.
The.
Fuck.
Dude?
I understand about 15% of what this guy posts. I've learned to accept it.
Using your threory, I can make a case that Pete Carroll is one of he biggest squanderers of talent there ever was. Only one undefeated season, and only one BCS Title.
The difference, of course, is the undefeated season and (now stripped) NC.
But, I would wholeheartedly agree that Carroll mostly squandered his talent. He had the easiest cake walk of a schedule to get to the BCS game. He routinely dropped stupid conference games that should have been slam dunks.
Name a coach that doesn't. Most of the college football world thinks Carroll is a damned fine college coach. Stripped NC or not, they won it on the field.
Stripped NC or not, they won it on the field.
Yeah, I know. It helps make my point that PC >> MR.
They both squander talent, they both have ostensibly easier paths to the NC than most, and yet MR just can't do it.
You didn't name a coach that doesn't "squander talent" under your theory of talent squandering.
Mack Brown, Frank Beamer, Chris Peterson...even in recent yrs Saban.
Of that list, by his forumula, I'd only agree with Chris Peterson. Saban too...recently.
You didn't name a coach that doesn't "squander talent" under your theory of talent squandering.
In this day and age of 85 schollies and overall parody, I can't find much fault with either.
I understand about 15% of what this guy posts. I've learned to accept it.
See - at least you know you understand 100% of what I post. Its just you dont agree with 90% of the time... :thumsup:Come on Chizad, we were discussing some other stuff amid the banter and I was just explaining that I have very limited knowledge of offense (high school). Maybe I don't respond as quickly as many here but it's not like I need decoding.
I don't think the criteria should be NC's because there's just too much shit that happens during a 12-13 game season. I'd put Carroll up there because of his consistency in either winning a NC or being a factor in the NC. Same goes for Mack Brown. A slip up here or there doesn't make me think any less of him. UT is constantly at or near the top under his Corchedness. Urban Meyerses is a great example in my book along with Lord Saybins. The cruit the talent then kick your ass with it.
For Richt...not so much.
I'm throwing another name in the mix as well. Jim Tressell. Yeah, I know. The spankings at the hands of the SEC are fresh on everyone's minds. However, the guy has a NC to his credit and has played for 2 more. I believe he has 6 straight Big 10 titles going as well.
I'm throwing another name in the mix as well. Jim Tressell. Yeah, I know. The spankings at the hands of the SEC are fresh on everyone's minds. However, the guy has a NC to his credit and has played for 2 more. I believe he has 6 straight Big 10 titles going as well.
I have no issues with Tressell. Totally agree as a matter of fact. :bar:concur