Staff Raises

[AUChizad]

Bull-fucking-shit, and you know it. Utah was undefeated, and they were in a BCS bowl. Should we have lost to them? No. But at least you can surmise they have to be halfway decent to be undefeated and in a BCS bowl.

Halfway decent?

Sure.

But so is Northwestern.

The only ranked teams 08 Utah beat was #12 TCU & #14 Bringham Young.

The 09 Northwestern team beat #16 Wisconsin and #4 Iowa and lost to. One of their losses was to #12 Penn State.

They're comparable, in the very least, except, as Wes pointed, out they played in a real conference.

This is where you lose me.  

Other than Finebaum's attempt to derail recruiting by floating a Louisiana Tech rumor, what coveting is there?  

It's my estimation -- and in talking to people in the business -- most of the SEC (as well as the other major conferences) are not nearly as sold on Malzahn as some of you are.  There are still questions, there's still the often quoted "just a few years out of high school" line and there's still a sense that he's got a little charlatan in him -- that his "scheme" won't work here, there or anywhere in the long term.  Is some (maybe a lot) of that misguided?  Probably.  

But to say "most coveted" is simply not true.  Maybe to you but you dont' count.

Talking to people in the business... I forgot one of your 6,847 jobs that makes you an authority on everything was an SEC coach.

Only you and bammers try to spin the "just a few years out of high school" idiocy. Good company, Kaos. He has been a superstar OC long before stepping foot on the plains. He was Offensive Coordinator of the Year at Arkansas five years ago. Moved to Tulsa where he had the first and second ranked offenses in the nation back to back. Brought us from 110th to 16th (at one point #3) in one season, with essentially the same cast of characters. Yeah, he's unproven alright.

Ask the Arkies if they'd take him back.

I was simply stating that he is solidly in the upper echelon of OC's in the SEC.

Sports Illustrated thinks that's an understatement:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/10/01/malzahn/index.html

Indeed, in the four seasons since then-Arkansas coach Houston Nutt took the unusual step of plucking the coach of nearby Springdale High to run his SEC offense, the soft-spoken, bespectacled 43-year-old Malzahn has become one of the sport's most innovative offensive minds, not just in the college ranks, but in all of football.

To say he's not highly coveted is simply not true. Maybe to you but you don't count.

Such a fucking idiot.  

There's nothing gloom or doom whatsoever about thinking that raises and extensions for a coaching staff might be premature.  

Kaos tactic #3.

Call someone who burns you a "fucking idiot" in a sad attempt to discredit them.

Kaos tactic #5.

Restate your ridiculous position as if stating it last establishes it as fact.

Yes. In this particular situation, there is. To bitch about bringing a staff that performed as they did (on the field and more importantly with recruiting), at a time when consistency is imperative, to an average salary that is about on par with the rest of the SEC (Chizik still far below average), is doom and gloom. Trying to equate our premier offensive coordinator to chopped liver is doom & gloom. It's what we've come to expect from Eeyore Criss.

[The Prowler]

HAHAHAHA.....kaos is Eeyore.  See, kaos...I mean Eeyore, your fuckin' garbage posts are old.  You simply don't know how or you simply will not form a NEW opinion on Auburn's coaching staff, because that would mean you'd have to eat a shit load of crow from a few people...me being one of them and I'd make you eat every bit of that crow, biatch.  I'll say this again, Coach Malzahn did more in his first year, as the OC at Auburn, than just about every OC at Auburn.

[RWS]

I was simply stating that he is solidly in the upper echelon of OC's in the SEC.

Jesus. Does 8-5 (and tied for the spot above Vandy in the SEC at 3-5) with epic fails against LSU, Arkansas, and losing against a team you haven't lost to in over 50 years (UK) really get you solidly in the upper echelon of OC's in the SEC? Major Applewhite led Alabama to a 7-6 record in 2007. Since that is only 1 win from 8-5, does that mean he was in the upper echelon of OCs in the SEC?

[The Prowler]

Jesus. Does 8-5 (and tied for the spot above Vandy in the SEC at 3-5) with epic fails against LSU, Arkansas, and losing against a team you haven't lost to in over 50 years (UK) really get you solidly in the upper echelon of OC's in the SEC? Major Applewhite led Alabama to a 7-6 record in 2007. Since that is only 1 win from 8-5, does that mean he was in the upper echelon of OCs in the SEC?

So....Major Applewhite was the HC at SPuat when y'all went (7-6), but, little nicky took over in '08?

Another question, how many offensive team and individual records did Major Applewhite's offense (everyone knows it wasn't really his offense, but he had the OC title) break at SPuat?

[RWS]

So....Major Applewhite was the HC at SPuat when y'all went (7-6), but, little nicky took over in '08?

Another question, how many offensive team and individual records did Major Applewhite's offense (everyone knows it wasn't really his offense, but he had the OC title) break at SPuat?

Its sad that this is the only thing you can think of. Its quite clear the context of the statement. Let me clear that up for you. He led our OFFENSE.

I don't care if Applewhite's offense broke every single offensive record at Alabama. Thats great if you classify doing more for AU than almost anybody else as breaking a bunch of individual and team records. Break all the records you want. But at the end of the season, when you are 8-5 and tied for the spot above Vandy in the SEC, what does that amount to? I mean, shit, Houston (Conference USA) has had the #1 and #2 total offense the past few years. Where exactly has that gotten them? Are you telling me you guys would be OK with being a bottom dweller in the SEC for the next few season as long as your statistics look good?

[The Prowler]

Its sad that this is the only thing you can think of. Its quite clear the context of the statement. Let me clear that up for you. He led our OFFENSE.

I don't care if Applewhite's offense broke every single offensive record at Alabama. Thats great if you classify doing more for AU than almost anybody else as breaking a bunch of individual and team records. Break all the records you want. But at the end of the season, when you are 8-5 and tied for the spot above Vandy in the SEC, what does that amount to? I mean, shit, Houston (Conference USA) has had the #1 and #2 total offense the past few years. Where exactly has that gotten them? Are you telling me you guys would be OK with being a bottom dweller in the SEC for the next few season as long as your statistics look good?

What kind of retarded dumbass thinks that a team's win/loss record is soley dependent on the OFFENSIVE side of the ball?  Let me clear it up for the slow people out there, BTW you can't spell retard without "rtr".  Team's win/loss record depends on the team's Offense as well as the Defense....and it's Special Teams.

[RWS]

What kind of retarded dumbass thinks that a team's win/loss record is soley dependent on the OFFENSIVE side of the ball?  Let me clear it up for the slow people out there, BTW you can't spell retard without "rtr".  Team's win/loss record depends on the team's Offense as well as the Defense....and it's Special Teams.

I'm not saying that at all. However, your offense is mostly responsible IMO. You have to score points to win. You have to be able to stop your opponent from scoring as well. Offensive fuckups bleed over to the defensive side of the ball. Turnovers, poor field position, consistant 3-and-outs, etc. I mean, if offense isn't such a big deal, why did AU get rid of Tony Franklin? Al Borges? 

[Jumbo]

What kind of retarded dumbass thinks that a team's win/loss record is soley dependent on the OFFENSIVE side of the ball?  Let me clear it up for the slow people out there, BTW you can't spell retard without "rtr".  Team's win/loss record depends on the team's Offense as well as the Defense....and it's Special Teams.

[The Prowler]

I'm not saying that at all. However, your offense is mostly responsible IMO. You have to score points to win. You have to be able to stop your opponent from scoring as well. Offensive fuckups bleed over to the defensive side of the ball. Turnovers, poor field position, consistant 3-and-outs, etc. I mean, if offense isn't such a big deal, why did AU get rid of Tony Franklin? Al Borges? 

No one is saying that the Offense isn't a vital part of the team's success....hence "team's win/loss record depends on the team's Offense as well as the Defense....and it's Special Teams."  It's a three-headed monster...if the Offense is firing on all cylinders, but the Defense and the Special Teams aren't, then there's a really good possibility that you'll lose the game.

[AUChizad]

RWS apparently believes the following:

1. The overall worth of an offensive coordinator can be measured exclusively in the entire team's W/L record.

Total offense, rushing yards, passing yards, or any other statistical category that actually pertains specifically to the offense (of which Malzahn has broken a record for breaking records) can be thrown out.

2. Alabama's W/L record in 2007 was 100% Major Applewhite's fault. The head coach has no responsibility for overall team performance. Only the offensive coordinator does. Saban is still God. Was still "upper echelon" in 2007.

[Kaos]

Halfway decent?

Sure.

But so is Northwestern.

The only ranked teams 08 Utah beat was #12 TCU & #14 Bringham Young.

The 09 Northwestern team beat #16 Wisconsin and #4 Iowa and lost to. One of their losses was to #12 Penn State.

They're comparable, in the very least, except, as Wes pointed, out they played in a real conference.
Talking to people in the business... I forgot one of your 6,847 jobs that makes you an authority on everything was an SEC coach.

Only you and bammers try to spin the "just a few years out of high school" idiocy. Good company, Kaos. He has been a superstar OC long before stepping foot on the plains. He was Offensive Coordinator of the Year at Arkansas five years ago. Moved to Tulsa where he had the first and second ranked offenses in the nation back to back. Brought us from 110th to 16th (at one point #3) in one season, with essentially the same cast of characters. Yeah, he's unproven alright.

Ask the Arkies if they'd take him back.

I was simply stating that he is solidly in the upper echelon of OC's in the SEC.

Sports Illustrated thinks that's an understatement:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/10/01/malzahn/index.html
To say he's not highly coveted is simply not true. Maybe to you but you don't count.
Kaos tactic #3.

Call someone who burns you a "fucking idiot" in a sad attempt to discredit them.

Kaos tactic #5.

Restate your ridiculous position as if stating it last establishes it as fact.

Yes. In this particular situation, there is. To bitch about bringing a staff that performed as they did (on the field and more importantly with recruiting), at a time when consistency is imperative, to an average salary that is about on par with the rest of the SEC (Chizik still far below average), is doom and gloom. Trying to equate our premier offensive coordinator to chopped liver is doom & gloom. It's what we've come to expect from Eeyore Criss.

You're a complete dumbass on this. Attempting to score points by creating arguments that don't exist. 

Didn't say any of the things you claim I did.  My contribution before you started your patented pants crapping was one simple word.  Premature.  Raises and extensions are, in my opinion, premature. 

The fact that I know people who work with other SEC programs has nothing to do with the jobs I've had or haven't had.  I know you like to bash on that, but from where I stand, having a lot of varied experiences gives me a little better perspective sometimes than people who've either never been there or who followed a single myopic track.

I'm not trying to spin the "few years out of high school" at all.  I even said it probably didn't have a whole lot of merit, but the perception is out there -- and it's not coming from bama fans.  Do you think it escaped anybody's attention that the offense hibernated against LSU, was a wet firecracker against Kentucky, disappeared for long stretches against Alabama, folded at Arkansas or vapor locked against Georgia?   Do you think other SEC teams don't note that the big numbers were racked against lesser teams?  It's not bama fans who are saying this.  People at other SEC programs, people attached to the coaching staffs at other SEC programs, people in the coaching business are saying this.  Maybe they're just justifying things to themselves or sticking their heads in the sand, but it is being said, it is being thought.

Proven?  No.  Highly coveted?  Maybe in a year or two, but not right now.  Just because you think something and refuse to see any side but the one you fabricate in your head just doesn't make it true at all.

You can have a raging hard on for Malzahn or Chizik if you want, but when you're the fifth-place team in a six-team division, there are no rock stars. 

You and Prowler are simpatico.  You make a good tandem.  Dumber and  even dumber. 

You're so intent on argument, so determined to try to score some points that all you do these days is create positions that don't exist anywhere except in your head.  And then you argue poorly against them. 

So go ahead and make up whatever it is you think I've said.  Build an entire sand castle of views that I never offered and don't hold. 

All that matters is that in my opinion, raises and extensions are at this point in the game premature.  Earn it before it's paid.  And they're not there yet. 

[The Prowler]

You're a complete dumbass on this. Attempting to score points by creating arguments that don't exist. 

Didn't say any of the things you claim I did.  My contribution before you started your patented pants crapping was one simple word.  Premature.  Raises and extensions are, in my opinion, premature. 

The fact that I know people who work with other SEC programs has nothing to do with the jobs I've had or haven't had.  I know you like to bash on that, but from where I stand, having a lot of varied experiences gives me a little better perspective sometimes than people who've either never been there or who followed a single myopic track.

I'm not trying to spin the "few years out of high school" at all.  I even said it probably didn't have a whole lot of merit, but the perception is out there -- and it's not coming from bama fans.  Do you think it escaped anybody's attention that the offense hibernated against LSU, was a wet firecracker against Kentucky, disappeared for long stretches against Alabama, folded at Arkansas or vapor locked against Georgia?   Do you think other SEC teams don't note that the big numbers were racked against lesser teams?  It's not bama fans who are saying this.  People at other SEC programs, people attached to the coaching staffs at other SEC programs, people in the coaching business are saying this.  Maybe they're just justifying things to themselves or sticking their heads in the sand, but it is being said, it is being thought.

Proven?  No.  Highly coveted?  Maybe in a year or two, but not right now.  Just because you think something and refuse to see any side but the one you fabricate in your head just doesn't make it true at all.

You can have a raging hard on for Malzahn or Chizik if you want, but when you're the fifth-place team in a six-team division, there are no rock stars. 

You and Prowler are simpatico.  You make a good tandem.  Dumber and  even dumber. 

You're so intent on argument, so determined to try to score some points that all you do these days is create positions that don't exist anywhere except in your head.  And then you argue poorly against them. 

So go ahead and make up whatever it is you think I've said.  Build an entire sand castle of views that I never offered and don't hold. 

All that matters is that in my opinion, raises and extensions are at this point in the game premature.  Earn it before it's paid.  And they're not there yet. 

Did someone say Chocolate???

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

I'm not saying that at all. However, your offense is mostly responsible IMO. You have to score points to win. You have to be able to stop your opponent from scoring as well. Offensive fuckups bleed over to the defensive side of the ball. Turnovers, poor field position, consistant 3-and-outs, etc. I mean, if offense isn't such a big deal, why did AU get rid of Tony Franklin? Al Borges? 

This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen you post.  I'm hoping this is just nothing more than you arguing to argue with Prowler, or something.  Right? 

[AUChizad]

You're a complete dumbass on this. Attempting to score points by creating arguments that don't exist.  

You and Prowler are simpatico.  You make a good tandem.  Dumber and  even dumber.  

#3.

Didn't say any of the things you claim I did.  My contribution before you started your patented pants crapping was one simple word.  Premature.  Raises and extensions are, in my opinion, premature.  

Show me. Where did I mischaracterize your argument? If I did, I apologize, but I don't see it. I had fun with RWS's position on why Malzahn is exclusively to blame for 08, but I don't see where I did anything like that to you.

All I did was tell you WHY under these specific circumstances, the raises that were instituted were completely fair and not worth raising a stink over. If Malzahn's salary was in the millions, and Chizik's was over 4, then I'd be just as pissed as you are. It's another case of your brain missing the part of it that's supposed to recognize that middle ground.

You're so intent on argument, so determined to try to score some points that all you do these days is create positions that don't exist anywhere except in your head.  And then you argue poorly against them.  

So go ahead and make up whatever it is you think I've said.  Build an entire sand castle of views that I never offered and don't hold.  

All of this without even a hint of irony. Everything you just described is your modus operandi. Your creed. It is demonstrated in about 99% of your 7100+ posts on this board, this post being no exception. You're mischaracterizing my argument by stating that I'm mischaracterizing yours. This is also another example of how you try to confuse the issue. An attempt to take the argument somewhere else.

All that matters is that in my opinion, raises and extensions are at this point in the game premature.  Earn it before it's paid.  And they're not there yet.  

Good, now that we're back on target. I disagree with you. See my last post where I stayed on topic completely and addressed everything you just reiterated, and those points only.

The true tragedy here is that meanwhile you have bammers making colossally idiotic statements such as:

I'm not saying that at all. However, your offense is mostly responsible IMO. You have to score points to win. You have to be able to stop your opponent from scoring as well. Offensive fuckups bleed over to the defensive side of the ball. Turnovers, poor field position, consistant 3-and-outs, etc. I mean, if offense isn't such a big deal, why did AU get rid of Tony Franklin? Al Borges? 

and you pay it no mind, because you'd rather argue with fellow Auburn fans. Let that sink in.

[AuburnChopper 3.0]

BTW you can't spell retard without "rtr".

True Story -
Guy I knew in Montgomery at my old job got a bama license plate that said: RTRD

He said that it meant "roll tide rolled"  (whatever the fuck that means).

He was proud until I pointed out that in fact it translated to "retard" much quicker than his intended idea.

He went a year before changing it.   

[djsimp]

True Story -
Guy I knew in Montgomery at my old job got a bama license plate that said: RTRD

He said that it meant "roll tide rolled"  (whatever the phuk that means).

He was proud until I pointed out that in fact it translated to "retard" much quicker than his intended idea.

He went a year before changing it.   

A perfect example of how bammers don't plan things out too well.

[Kaos]

#3.

Show me. Where did I mischaracterize your argument? If I did, I apologize, but I don't see it. I had fun with RWS's position on why Malzahn is exclusively to blame for 08, but I don't see where I did anything like that to you.

All I did was tell you WHY under these specific circumstances, the raises that were instituted were completely fair and not worth raising a stink over. If Malzahn's salary was in the millions, and Chizik's was over 4, then I'd be just as pissed as you are. It's another case of your brain missing the part of it that's supposed to recognize that middle ground.

All of this without even a hint of irony. Everything you just described is your modus operandi. Your creed. It is demonstrated in about 99% of your 7100+ posts on this board, this post being no exception. You're mischaracterizing my argument by stating that I'm mischaracterizing yours. This is also another example of how you try to confuse the issue. An attempt to take the argument somewhere else.
Good, now that we're back on target. I disagree with you. See my last post where I stayed on topic completely and addressed everything you just reiterated, and those points only.

The true tragedy here is that meanwhile you have bammers making colossally idiotic statements such as:and you pay it no mind, because you'd rather argue with fellow Auburn fans. Let that sink in.

Saying "premature" is "raising a stink"?  You somehow inferred that I was "pissed" in some way?  Hardly the case at all.  I didn't even say it was a bad thing, just that it was premature.  Don't think they earned a major bump yet.  And when you're talking about raising a guy's salary more than most people make in a year then yeah, that's a significant bump.

From that one single word, you defecated your drawers, took shots at my background because I've had a few more jobs than you, made the snarky "authority on everything" jibe, characterize $500K a year as "slave wages" and then create an entire argument  -- "so you can bitch about how you told us they were no good all along" -- that has never been mine.  

All I've EVER said about the staff is that the coronation of how awesome they are (which began on the day they were hired) should be given some restraint as they'd never worked together and none came from championship caliber, upper echelon teams.  Prowler was right in that their true value appears to be measured in their ability to recruit (and even that's not cemented yet).  

I remembered Chizik getting his salary doubled.  I thought I read at the same time that his staff budget was the highest in the SEC.  I'm almost positive I read that.  I think what you did was twist that around by adding the head coaching salary in (not the point) and then go off on another rant using skewed information.  If Auburn's assistant's combined salary isn't the highest, then I was wrong.  But even before the raises wasn't it top two or three (combined assistant's salaries, not head coaches, not individual coaches)?  That's what I remembered reading and what I was going by.  Hardly slave wages by any estimation.  How is that (your words) "unfounded negativity?"  How is that negative at all?

You responded somewhere that Malzahn is the "most coveted OC" or somesuch.  Whether you like it or not, I do know people who work with other SEC programs.  I like to know what they think.  General consensus is that the jury is still out.  Some like him.  Some don't.  Because a handful of Arkansas fans on a message board think he's great, you extrapolated that into an entire "ask Arkansas if they'd take him back" argument.  Maybe they would.  I know some people -- people who've got more money and influence than your or I will ever have in Arkansas -- who wouldn't.  Doesn't mean they're right or wrong.

But you can't address that.  You have to dip into Prowler territory and pull out the "authority on everything because you had so many jobs" line again.  

So from your response here, I guess I'm supposed to read that drivel, think to myself "damn, Chizad is right" and not respond to it?   So tell me again, who chose the argument:  My one word or your amber lamps responses?

I don't even really read RWS stuff.  When you and him or you and Prowler start up I just skip it all.  

Just FYI?  When Prowler jumps to your defense?  You've already lost.  That happens a lot with you Sancho.  

[RWS]

This is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen you post.  I'm hoping this is just nothing more than you arguing to argue with Prowler, or something.  Right?  

How silly of me. Offense is exactly 33.33333333% responsible. It in no way, shape, or form affects field position that the defense must defend. It in no way affects how often a defense has to take the field. It in no way affects how much of a breather a defense gets between series. 

[War Eagle!!!]

How silly of me. Offense is exactly 33.33333333% responsible. It in no way, shape, or form affects field position that the defense must defend. It in no way affects how often a defense has to take the field. It in no way affects how much of a breather a defense gets between series. 

The 1992 Alabama National Champions laugh at your silly argument...

[jadennis]

How silly of me. Offense is exactly 33.33333333% responsible. It in no way, shape, or form affects field position that the defense must defend. It in no way affects how often a defense has to take the field. It in no way affects how much of a breather a defense gets between series. 

I think your argument took a big hit in credibility when you reached and brought 7-6 Alabama and Major Applewhite into it.   I see what you were getting at, but it just wasn't a good example or comparison. 

In 2007, Alabama finished 27th in scoring defense.  Auburn finished 79th last year.  In 2006, the year before Applewhite got there, Alabama averaged 25 points per game.  Under him, they averaged 27.  In 2008 Auburn averaged 17 points per game (111th) , under Malzahn, it went up to over 33 points per game (17th).

There really just isn't anything comparable about Applewhite's job as OC for 7-6 Alabama and Malzahn's job as OC for 8-5 Auburn.