So fuck lawn services....

[Snaggletiger]

Most of the Xers are illiterate, so why all this discussion about reading anyway?

I'm liturit because I attended the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.

[GH2001]

For the local barristers on here, could having to read through 12 pages of old English mumbo jumbo be considered misleading or even slight fraud if the administering party counts on the "muddying of the waters" as a way to get more money out of people?

Say that the clause about auto renew in put in the very middle. Does anyone read every word? Like, realistically? Yes I know by the law you SHOULD. But does the person getting you to sign have any obligation to give you the highlights or at least things you may want to know that are potential show stoppers or have financial implications?  I could just see under those kind of circumstances someone could reason that they were intentionally mislead or deceived for monetary gain.

And we know good and well these places do this stuff on purpose - not telling you key things, burying important details in pages of fine print, etc. They make this stuff so cumbersome and complicated for the sheer purpose of confusing people or having them not give a damn or suspect anything different than what they've been told - resulting in more cash in their pockets. Could the intent to mislead be something that is illegal or at least carefully regulated?

The "I did not say it was auto renew but I also didn't say it wasn't, I just didn't say anything" - doesn't pass the mustard to me and has deceptive practice all over it. And again, we've taken action as a society against much less deception.

I'm small govt in general but one of govts main basic duties it to protect citizens from evil things like these asshat companies. It becomes a consumer protection issue. We've done this same stuff to credit card companies, banks and loan sharks, even car companies with lemon laws. Not trying to go all Ralph Nader on that ass but just sayin.

[WiregrassTiger]

Most of the Xers are illiterate, so why all this discussion about reading anyway?

Bitch, take this back. My Mom and Dad were married when I was born.

[wesfau2]

For the local barristers on here, could having to read through 12 pages of old English mumbo jumbo be considered misleading or even slight fraud if the administering party counts on the "muddying of the waters" as a way to get more money out of people?

Arguably, sure.

The same argument has been made against CC companies and their "universal default" provisions.  See also, "shrink-wrap" licenses.

But, until there is an outright ban on such language, read yo shit.

[Jumbo]

I've technically never physically signed anything.

[WiregrassTiger]

Arguably, sure.

The same argument has been made against CC companies and their "universal default" provisions.  See also, "shrink-wrap" licenses.

But, until there is an outright ban on such language, read yo shit.

Yes. The above is correct about the argument made against CC companies and their "universal default" provisions and "shrink-wrap" licenses, however, I don't have time to go into the legal details heretofore and whatnot.

[Buzz Killington]

I've technically never physically signed anything.

Silence is acceptance.

[Kaos]

Yes. The above is correct about the argument made against CC companies and their "universal default" provisions and "shrink-wrap" licenses, however, I don't have time to go into the legal details heretofore and whatnot.

I been using Saran for years without a license.  So fuck all you hos

[Buzz Killington]

I been using Saran for years without a license.  So fudge all you hos

That's what you think...your license has auto renewed every 7 months.

[GH2001]

Arguably, sure.

The same argument has been made against CC companies and their "universal default" provisions.  See also, "shrink-wrap" licenses.

But, until there is an outright ban on such language, read yo shit.

Fair enough. Was more just playing devils advocate and focusing on their intent more than the actual action itself. Seems there is a lot of intent to deceive that goes on with these places. That is more my issue. They know exactly what they are doing.

I work with CC companies all day every day. If people only knew the half of what they try to pull on people...including what you mentioned with default provisions. It's shady as F.

[Snaggletiger]

Two situations where people rarely pay close attention to the agreements or wording because of the voluminous amount of paperwork, are buying a new car or closing on a home. They slap form after form after form in front of you and quickly say, "This is the inspection report....this is the warranty report...this is..."  And even being a lawyer, I look at it and go, "Gawt damn, I'm not reading 57 pages of fine print right now.  I want to jump in my new F-150 and get the hell out of here.  Are my payments what they quoted?  Yep!  Where do I sign?"

One thing in Alabama new car contracts that most people sign without giving a second thought to are Arbitration agreements.  I've refused before and even gone across the state line to Georgia to get the same vehicle when they wouldn't agree to do the deal without it.  Arbitration agreements are grossly one-sided in that if you have a dispute over the vehicle or the contract after you drive a $40K vehicle off the lot, that dispute will most likely be decided by an arbitration company of the dealership's choosing.  And yes, that provision is in the agreement they quickly plopped down for you to sign.

[GH2001]

Two situations where people rarely pay close attention to the agreements or wording because of the voluminous amount of paperwork, are buying a new car or closing on a home. They slap form after form after form in front of you and quickly say, "This is the inspection report....this is the warranty report...this is..."  And even being a lawyer, I look at it and go, "Gawt damn, I'm not reading 57 pages of fine print right now.  I want to jump in my new F-150 and get the hell out of here.  Are my payments what they quoted?  Yep!  Where do I sign?"

One thing in Alabama new car contracts that most people sign without giving a second thought to are Arbitration agreements.  I've refused before and even gone across the state line to Georgia to get the same vehicle when they wouldn't agree to do the deal without it.  Arbitration agreements are grossly one-sided in that if you have a dispute over the vehicle or the contract after you drive a $40K vehicle off the lot, that dispute will most likely be decided by an arbitration company of the dealership's choosing.  And yes, that provision is in the agreement they quickly plopped down for you to sign.

This. All of this is what I beez talkin bout Willis. The nature in which they do that. Is it intentional to get it "by you"? I think many times it is.

[wesfau2]

This. All of this is what I beez talkin bout Willis. The nature in which they do that. Is it intentional to get it "by you"? I think many times it is.

It's two things:

Their bargaining power relative to yours; and
Their bet that the consumer wants instant gratification and will sign whatever to get it.

[Buzz Killington]

Two situations where people rarely pay close attention to the agreements or wording because of the voluminous amount of paperwork, are buying a new car or closing on a home. They slap form after form after form in front of you and quickly say, "This is the inspection report....this is the warranty report...this is..."  And even being a lawyer, I look at it and go, "Gawt damn, I'm not reading 57 pages of fine print right now.  I want to jump in my new F-150 and get the hell out of here.  Are my payments what they quoted?  Yep!  Where do I sign?"

One thing in Alabama new car contracts that most people sign without giving a second thought to are Arbitration agreements.  I've refused before and even gone across the state line to Georgia to get the same vehicle when they wouldn't agree to do the deal without it.  Arbitration agreements are grossly one-sided in that if you have a dispute over the vehicle or the contract after you drive a $40K vehicle off the lot, that dispute will most likely be decided by an arbitration company of the dealership's choosing.  And yes, that provision is in the agreement they quickly plopped down for you to sign.

You really should have your legal counsel read...oh, wait.

[Godfather]

It's two things:

Their bargaining power relative to yours; and
Their bet that the consumer wants instant gratification and will sign whatever to get it.

I'll sign your penis for a dollah

[dallaswareagle]

Two situations where people rarely pay close attention to the agreements or wording because of the voluminous amount of paperwork, are buying a new car or closing on a home. They slap form after form after form in front of you and quickly say, "This is the inspection report....this is the warranty report...this is..."  And even being a lawyer, I look at it and go, "Gawt damn, I'm not reading 57 pages of fine print right now.  I want to jump in my new F-150 and get the hell out of here.  Are my payments what they quoted?  Yep!  Where do I sign?"

One thing in Alabama new car contracts that most people sign without giving a second thought to are Arbitration agreements.  I've refused before and even gone across the state line to Georgia to get the same vehicle when they wouldn't agree to do the deal without it.  Arbitration agreements are grossly one-sided in that if you have a dispute over the vehicle or the contract after you drive a $40K vehicle off the lot, that dispute will most likely be decided by an arbitration company of the dealership's choosing.  And yes, that provision is in the agreement they quickly plopped down for you to sign.

Well aware of that provision. Still not gonna pay for something that isn't right or doesn't work.  Will return the car to the dealership and go from there.Have done it before. The vehicle turned out to be most unkeen.  Ohhhh, they are going to put it on my credit report.   

[Snaggletiger]

It's two things:

Their bargaining power relative to yours; and
Their bet that the consumer wants instant gratification and will sign whatever to get it.

Bazingo. 

[Snaggletiger]

I'll sign your penis for a dollah

Oh cool. Sign it, "To Snags"...no wait....there's plenty of room to write out Snaggletiger. Okay, "To Snaggletiger.  All the best from your good friend, Godfather."

[wesfau2]

Oh cool. Sign it, "To Snags"...no wait....there's plenty of room to write out Snaggletiger. Okay, "To Snaggletiger.  All the best from your good friend, Godfather."

"Welcome to Jamaica, Mon, and have a nice day."

[Godfather]

Oh cool. Sign it, "To Snags"...no wait....there's plenty of room to write out Snaggletiger. Okay, "To Snaggletiger.  All the best from your good friend, Godfather."

Wes may be short but they don't call him the tripod for nothin.