Trayvon

[Townhallsavoy]

So I looked around and didn't see anything about the Trayvon Martin case.

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say. There have been no reports that a witness saw the initial punch Zimmerman told police about.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened Feb. 26. But that night, and in later meetings, he described and re-enacted for police what he says took place.

In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

Civil-rights leaders and more than a million other people have demanded Zimmerman's arrest, calling Trayvon a victim of racial profiling and suggesting Zimmerman is a vigilante.

Trayvon was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.

Zimmerman's account

This is what the Sentinel has learned about Zimmerman's account to investigators:

He said he was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Police have been reluctant to provide details about their evidence.

But after the Sentinel story appeared online Monday morning, City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. issued a news release, saying there would be an internal-affairs investigation into the source of the leak and, if identified, the person or people involved would be disciplined.

He did not challenge the accuracy of the information.

At a Monday news conference, Trayvon's mother, father and their lawyers called the report that their son was suspended from school because of a marijuana baggie irrelevant and needlessly hurtful.

Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, said "even in death, they are still disrespecting my son, and I feel that that's a sin."

His mother, Sybrina Fulton, said, "They killed my son, and now they're trying to kill his reputation."

Supporters have held rallies in Sanford, Miami, New York and Tallahassee, calling the case a tragic miscarriage of justice.

Civil-rights activist the Rev. Al Sharpton headlined a rally in Sanford on Thursday that drew an estimated 8,000 people. The Rev. Jesse Jackson on Sunday spoke at an Eatonville church, where he called Trayvon a martyr.

Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panther Party, has offered a $10,000 reward for his "capture."

One-minute gap

On Feb. 26, when Zimmerman first spotted Trayvon, he called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about whether they came from Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid but he said he did not need to go to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

[AWK]

It's pretty simple in my eyes, deadly force = deadly force.  The kid didn't have a gun, didn't brandish such, and therefore could not have posed a deadly threat to Zimmerman.  Zimmerman followed him because he thought the kid was suspicious.  That is the job of the police.  The police dispatcher told him not to follow the kid.  Deadly force =/= deadly force in this case.  Zimmerman was wrong.

[dallaswareagle]

The MSM is whipping the Black community into frenzy without all the facts. I bet you a dime to a dollar that if they choose not file charges (cause that’s FL law) the riots in LA will seem like child plays.

If Zimmerman was black and the kid white we would not even be talking about this.

Not everything bad that happens to you is because your (insert whatever color you choose) But Rev AL and Jesse and now our Pres, who only seems to comment when blacks are involved keep the race card front and center. I never cared for him as President but now he has become what he wanted. America’s first (Black) President. 

[dallaswareagle]

It's pretty simple in my eyes, deadly force = deadly force.  The kid didn't have a gun, didn't brandish such, and therefore could not have posed a deadly threat to Zimmerman.  Zimmerman followed him because he thought the kid was suspicious.  That is the job of the police.  The police dispatcher told him not to follow the kid.  Deadly force =/= deadly force in this case.  Zimmerman was wrong.

I only know what I have read but let's say this part is true. If I am slamming your head into the cement and you have a gun, you won't use it?

[Townhallsavoy]

It's pretty simple in my eyes, deadly force = deadly force.  The kid didn't have a gun, didn't brandish such, and therefore could not have posed a deadly threat to Zimmerman.  Zimmerman followed him because he thought the kid was suspicious.  That is the job of the police.  The police dispatcher told him not to follow the kid.  Deadly force =/= deadly force in this case.  Zimmerman was wrong.

You're a lawyer.  To rephrase dallaswareagle's question - Could deadly force be defined as slamming someone's head into the ground? 

Another issue - Is it unlawful to follow someone on a neighborhood street?  Can the police legally instruct you not to do that?  And if you do decide to follow a suspicious person and that person violently attacks you, would a court of law consider you to blame? 

I'm not siding with Zimmerman.  It sounds like manslaughter in self-defense.  By no means do I think he should have shot the kid.  He had already called the police and could have just fought the kid off until the police arrived. 

But this has turned into a national story with many people already convicting Zimmerman of a hate crime and capital murder. 

[Townhallsavoy]

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/03/birmingham_council_names_slain.html

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- The Birmingham City Council late this morning voted to declare the late Trayvon Martin of Sanford, Florida, an honorary citizen of Birmingham.

The last honorary citizen the city named was President Barack Obama after his election.

Council President Roderick Royal said the council would draft a larger resolution with the declaration and a written objection to way the Florida case has been handled.

Martin was a 17-year-old youth slain Feb. 26 in a confrontation with 28-year-old George Zimmerman, who told a police dispatcher he thought Martin looked suspicious. Zimmerman, a member of a neighborhood watch group shot Martin following a chase and fight.

At the time of his death, Martin was wearing a hoodie style jacket. The four male members of the nine-member council wore hoodie jackets for the first hour of this morning's council meeting.

Council members said their demonstration was prompted by the Florida case but more broadly is also a call to action against overall violence that plagues cities, specifically involving black men.

"The primary purpose is to show that minority males, black males in particular, are often invisible to others who are in positions of influence, whether that's a job interview or with a police officer," Royal said. "In this case it led to the tragic death of this young man."

The request to the council for the honorary citizenship was made by Frank Matthews, a community activist and an organizer of a Sunday rally in downtown Birmingham which protested the death of Martin.

Matthews said his group plans a trip to Sanford, Florida, to deliver the city's resolution.

[Townhallsavoy]

Another question - Could I safely walk down the streets of Ensley at 10pm dressed in cowboy boots, jeans, a red plaid button down shirt, and a hat? 

This is a bigger problem than black guys being unable to wear hoodies in wealthy neighborhoods.  But we're going to isolate this one particular issue and fail to address the bigger racism issues in our country.  Rinse and repeat. 

[AWK]

You're a lawyer.  To rephrase dallaswareagle's question - Could deadly force be defined as slamming someone's head into the ground? 

Another issue - Is it unlawful to follow someone on a neighborhood street?  Can the police legally instruct you not to do that?  And if you do decide to follow a suspicious person and that person violently attacks you, would a court of law consider you to blame? 

I'm not siding with Zimmerman.  It sounds like manslaughter in self-defense.  By no means do I think he should have shot the kid.  He had already called the police and could have just fought the kid off until the police arrived. 

But this has turned into a national story with many people already convicting Zimmerman of a hate crime and capital murder.

JR is the better one to ask, but...

Generally, unless you are in your home, if you have a gun and they don't, and they don't make you believe they have a gun, then you are in the wrong.  You can't use deadly force unless in a neutral area (at all in some States) unless the same is being used against you.  Fist a cuff's wouldn't be an exception...Unless they were Mike Tyson or some shit.

Regardless of all of that, he was following the kid.  Vigilante-esque, even after the cops told him not too.  He instigated the majority of it. 

 

Is it unlawful to follow someone on a neighborhood street? It depends. Can the police legally instruct you not to do that? Yes, unless it is your property. And if you do decide to follow a suspicious person and that person violently attacks you, would a court of law consider you to blame? Depends, but generally the person who started the fight would be to blame.  Again, regardless of all that.  A fight =/= a gun fight.  Very few people can and will kill you with their bare hands.  And I'm pretty sure no Jury would believe that a 17 year old kid was a threat to kill a 28 year old man with his bare hands.

 

Also, I agree it should be manslaughter.  I don't know why it is a national story either.  Well, I mean it is retarded that the DA hasn't yet charged him.  Even if the charges aren't successful, they can say they tried.  The guy is a dumbass who had an itchy trigger finger and should not have shot the kid. 

[GarMan]

Y'all bein' racist.  Trayvon was a good kid.  He neva do nuthin' wrong...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Look at dems grillz!


It seems like he was out looking for trouble, and he found it... 

[Townhallsavoy]

I was almost going to post those - including his Tweets - but I refrained.  His character doesn't matter ESPECIALLY since he's a 17 year old. 

And he wasn't looking for trouble.  He had candy and an iced tea and was heading home. 

I really don't care too much about this case which is why even though I've known about it since the day it happened (thanks, Reddit), I haven't posted anything about it. It seems fairly cut and dry.  Zimmerman didn't need to kill the kid, and the police are reluctant to arrest him. 

What's upsetting me is the backlash.  I've seen and heard numerous sources refer to Zimmerman as a white Hispanic male.  Some have referred to him as simply white.  I watched some white guy on CNN representing Russell Simmons talk about how the case didn't matter.  That we need to change white people's mindsets because the majority of white people hate black people and hate hoodies. 

Cities across the nation are holding vigils for the kid.  Birmingham made him an honorary citizen.  New Orleans had graffiti that said "RIP Trayvon Fuck Police."  The Black Panthers are asking for Zimmerman and offering a $10k reward.  Spike Lee attempted to tweet Zimmerman's address but actually tweeted the wrong address. 

Then there's this:



And this:



And now this:



This is fucking ridiculous.  But typical of the media. 

[dallaswareagle]

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/03/birmingham_council_names_slain.html

Simply honoring someone because of the color of their skin. (twice)

This should promote unity.

[dallaswareagle]

I was almost going to post those - including his Tweets - but I refrained. His character doesn't matter ESPECIALLY since he's a 17 year old. 
And he wasn't looking for trouble.  He had candy and an iced tea and was heading home. 

I really don't care too much about this case which is why even though I've known about it since the day it happened (thanks, Reddit), I haven't posted anything about it. It seems fairly cut and dry.  Zimmerman didn't need to kill the kid, and the police are reluctant to arrest him. 

What's upsetting me is the backlash.  I've seen and heard numerous sources refer to Zimmerman as a white Hispanic male.  Some have referred to him as simply white.  I watched some white guy on CNN representing Russell Simmons talk about how the case didn't matter.  That we need to change white people's mindsets because the majority of white people hate black people and hate hoodies. 

Cities across the nation are holding vigils for the kid.  Birmingham made him an honorary citizen.  New Orleans had graffiti that said "RIP Trayvon Fuck Police."  The Black Panthers are asking for Zimmerman and offering a $10k reward.  Spike Lee attempted to tweet Zimmerman's address but actually tweeted the wrong address. 

Then there's this:



And this:



And now this:



This is fucking ridiculous.  But typical of the media.

I think it does since the media and alot of folks Portrayed him as the next Mother Teresa until some other facts started coming out.

[GarMan]

And he wasn't looking for trouble.  He had candy and an iced tea and was heading home when he attacked Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer.   

FTFY...

Both of their lives have been destroyed over some stupid shit.  From my perspective, Zimmerman was in the right.  Sure he used deadly force.  You would too if you were being beaten and having your head smashed into the sidewalk.  And, Trayvon's character, pics and tweats do matter.  It confirms that he was a hood-in-training. 

[AWK]

Y'all bein' racist.  Trayvon was a good kid.  He neva do nuthin' wrong...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120504/Trayvon-Martin-case-He-suspended-times-caught-burglary-tool.html

Look at dems grillz!


It seems like he was out looking for trouble, and he found it...

If you honestly believe anything in your post you are ignorant and a racist. 

He was looking for trouble by talking to his girlfriend and buying skittles and a tea?  ...

and because he had gold teeth he deserved to be shot?

and because he has trouble in his past he deserved to be shot?

[AWK]

FTFY...

Both of their lives have been destroyed over some stupid shit.  From my perspective, Zimmerman was in the right.  Sure he used deadly force.  You would too if you were being beaten and having your head smashed into the sidewalk.  And, Trayvon's character, pics and tweats do matter.  It confirms that he was a hood-in-training.

Nevermind, you confirmed you idiocy. 

[Vandy Vol]

Florida, like most states, defines deadly force as force that is likely to cause death or great bodily harm.  This doesn't require that a deadly weapon be present, but it ultimately does require that the victim reasonably believe that their life was in danger.  A 4'10" twelve year old could reasonably believe that a 6'2" twenty-five year old would pose a threat to their life without a weapon (assuming that the twenty-five year old has physically done something to cause such a belief), but the opposite would likely not be deemed reasonable.

Usually the question of reasonableness is decided in a court of law, which is why some people are upset.  Especially in a situation like this where the police apparently have very little evidence which corroborates Zimmerman's story, other than injuries which did not require hospitalization, and "witnesses" who didn't actually see the attack.

Zimmerman may be in the right, or he may be in the wrong, but it probably should be tried in court due to lingering questions which police investigations have been unable to definitively answer.


*EDIT:  Also wanted to add that Florida law allows you to use deadly force not only in response to deadly force, but to prevent a forcible felony (rape, robbery, kidnapping, etc.).  This is another "out" for Zimmerman, but it still comes down to the question of reasonableness:  Given all of the known facts of the situation, would your "average" person have a reasonable belief that Trayvon was attempting a forcible felony?  If yes, then the use of deadly force in self defense was proper.  If no, then the use of deadly force in self defense was improper.

[dallaswareagle]

I don’t agree with what he says (As I don’t know all the facts). But he has jumped no further than those who believe this crime to be because the kid was black. And yet I hear no one calling these people ignorant.

There is a double standard in this country. The black community would lose it and demand justice if Kid rock was on stage and said that President Obama doesn’t like white people.

[GarMan]

If you honestly believe anything in your post you are ignorant and a racist. 

He was looking for trouble by talking to his girlfriend and buying skittles and a tea?  ...

and because he had gold teeth he deserved to be shot?

and because he has trouble in his past he deserved to be shot?

You're unbelievable.  I never claimed that he deserved to be shot.  And, his behavior leading up to this was enough of an indication that he was headed for trouble.  I realize that's more of that old-fashioned, common sense backwards thinking from your perspective, but it's usually right more often than wrong. 

On that actual evening, even if Zimmerman followed him and taunted him, that does not excuse his physical attack of Zimmerman.  And, while we're at it, the police dispatcher is not a police officer.  The police dispatcher did not order or request that Zimmerman stop pursuing Trayvon.  She only suggested it.  That's different than your misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the facts. 

Oh and, race has nothing to do with this. 

Nevermind, you confirmed you idiocy.

Golly...  I wish that I lived in a world blissful ignorance like you.  That sort of mindset could lead to trouble for you one day, but I sincerely hope that it does not.

[GarMan]

Especially in a situation like this where the police apparently have very little evidence which corroborates Zimmerman's story, other than injuries which did not require hospitalization, and "witnesses" who didn't actually see the attack. 

There is a witness who claims to have observed Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating him and smashing his head into the sidewalk.  As long as that witness is telling the truth, this shouldn't be a problem for Zimmerman.  The lacerations on the back of his head, bloody nose and fat lip are evidence of Trayvon's attack. 

[Vandy Vol]

There is a witness who claims to have observed Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating him and smashing his head into the sidewalk.  As long as that witness is telling the truth, this shouldn't be a problem for Zimmerman.  The lacerations on the back of his head, bloody nose and fat lip are evidence of Trayvon's attack.

Sorry, missed that part; the witness acknowledged seeing Trayvon on top and beating Zimmerman, but the article doesn't say whether the witness saw the shooting or not.  I would assume he did, unless he turned away, which isn't likely, but that part of the witness's story is noticeably absent from the article.

The witness's testimony will be what will help Zimmerman, but ideally it should still go to a court of law, as it is there that the credibility of the witnesses can be determined, as well as the existence of any other evidence.