Andre Smith is Fat.

[AUChizad]

Just wanted to make sure no one forgot, since this thread was another victim of the server upgrade.

4. Lewis is not happy with Andre Smith, the second-year tackle from Alabama. He doesn't think Alabama shot him straight with its pre-draft info (the kid's work ethic leaves a lot to be desired) and Smith was not diligent enough in the offseason rehabbing a foot injury.  The Bengals expect him to be ready for the start of the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if: 1. The Bengals start him on the PUP list because he won't be in good shape; or 2. He doesn't start the season as a starter.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/07/29/bengals.postcard/index.html#ixzz0vTSCDN7K

[Buzz Killington]

Water is wet.

[Townhallsavoy]

Alabama told a half truth?  You don't say!

[RWS]

Ok, as fans, we could all see that Smith obviously had some issues. Even most Alabama fans said he had work ethic issues. These issues obviously came to a head after he left the program, and before he signed with any NFL team. We all sat here and discussed it.

If we, as fans, could see all of this, why didn't an NFL team see it coming? Alabama didn't shoot them straight? Seriously? Even if they didn't, if we could see it coming, an NFL team with all of their scouts and whatnot sure as hell should have as well. Bottom line, he just isn't going to work out. That's not all that surprising. We all saw this happening.

[wesfau2]

Ok, as fans, we could all see that Smith obviously had some issues. Even most Alabama fans said he had work ethic issues. These issues obviously came to a head after he left the program, and before he signed with any NFL team. We all sat here and discussed it.

If we, as fans, could see all of this, why didn't an NFL team see it coming? Alabama didn't shoot them straight? Seriously? Even if they didn't, if we could see it coming, an NFL team with all of their scouts and whatnot sure as hell should have as well. Bottom line, he just isn't going to work out. That's not all that surprising. We all saw this happening.

I'm sure Nicky and crew weren't reassuring the NFL personnel that Andre is a good kid and hard worker. 

[RWS]

I'm sure Nicky and crew weren't reassuring the NFL personnel that Andre is a good kid and hard worker.  

For fucks sake, they wrote it into his contract that any time he reports heavier than 350 lbs, the Bengals will dock him half of his weekly game check. Seriously, that is in his contract. If that doesn't scream "THIS GUY ISN'T A GYM RAT!" then I don't know what does.

And you're telling me they were just blindsided by this whole weight/laziness issue? They knew, and they still took the risk.

[JR4AU]

Ok, as fans, we could all see that Smith obviously had some issues. Even most Alabama fans said he had work ethic issues. These issues obviously came to a head after he left the program, and before he signed with any NFL team. We all sat here and discussed it.

If we, as fans, could see all of this, why didn't an NFL team see it coming? Alabama didn't shoot them straight? Seriously? Even if they didn't, if we could see it coming, an NFL team with all of their scouts and whatnot sure as hell should have as well. Bottom line, he just isn't going to work out. That's not all that surprising. We all saw this happening.

Just to throw in a little perspective here...

The NFL has nice resources for sure.  But they're not here, in Alabama, listening to all the talk radio, and reading all the fan blogs to know what "all the fans see and know".  And, fans often think they know something, but don't really, and I'd hate to think that the NFL would invest millions in a player based on "what fans know or don't know".  The NFL talks to the college coaches.  They depend on them, as college coaches depend on HS coaches when recruiting kids from HS, to shoot straight.  Andre had his combine issues, and I'm sure interested teams wanted to know why this All Everything Left Tackle was having such issues, and thus cotacted Nicky and his staff.  Thus the "not shooting straight about his work ethic" deal.   

[RWS]

Just to throw in a little perspective here...

The NFL has nice resources for sure.  But they're not here, in Alabama, listening to all the talk radio, and reading all the fan blogs to know what "all the fans see and know".  And, fans often think they know something, but don't really, and I'd hate to think that the NFL would invest millions in a player based on "what fans know or don't know".  The NFL talks to the college coaches.  They depend on them, as college coaches depend on HS coaches when recruiting kids from HS, to shoot straight.  Andre had his combine issues, and I'm sure interested teams wanted to know why this All Everything Left Tackle was having such issues, and thus cotacted Nicky and his staff.  Thus the "not shooting straight about his work ethic" deal.   

Regardless of what CNS said or didn't say, it was painfully obvious. Like I said, they built his contract around his weight issues. That tells me they knew Smith had work ethic issues. I mean, how often do you see that built in so specifically in a contract? I understand that the NFL relies on coaches that have handled him for years, but if Saban did BS them, I think there were enough red flags that popped up that should have warned them.

[Snaggletiger]

Tubby...err, I mean Andre..is a real hard worker.  Aiight?

[wesfau2]

Regardless of what CNS said or didn't say, it was painfully obvious. Like I said, they built his contract around his weight issues. That tells me they knew Smith had work ethic issues. I mean, how often do you see that built in so specifically in a contract? I understand that the NFL relies on coaches that have handled him for years, but if Saban did BS them, I think there were enough red flags that popped up that should have warned them.

Does it hurt to contort yourself so badly defending Prick $aban?

[RWS]

Does it hurt to contort yourself so badly defending Prick $aban?

No, I'm simply stating the obvious. How many times have you heard of an NFL contract saying they will dock half of a player's pay for weighing in above X amount of weight? I think every contract has a performance clause to some extent, sure. But one that spells out specific weight goals? I think that it makes it obvious that he has issues. Nearly every one of us on this board could have guessed that Smith would have weight issues. You really think the NFL people couldn't have guessed it? Regardless of what Saban said or didn't say? I didn't talk to Saban, and I pretty much knew it would be an issue. The Bengals knew it would be an issue, and that's why they built his contract around it.

I'm just not buying this whole "Wow, we had no idea! We were duped!" bullshit. 

[Tiger Wench]

Regardless of what CNS said or didn't say, it was painfully obvious. Like I said, they built his contract around his weight issues. That tells me they knew Smith had work ethic issues.

BIG difference IMO about weight and work ethic.  You can work your ass off and if you eat fifty cheeseburgers when you get home, you still gonna be a fat ass.

[JR4AU]

Regardless of what CNS said or didn't say, it was painfully obvious. Like I said, they built his contract around his weight issues. That tells me they knew Smith had work ethic issues. I mean, how often do you see that built in so specifically in a contract? I understand that the NFL relies on coaches that have handled him for years, but if Saban did BS them, I think there were enough red flags that popped up that should have warned them.

Weight clauses are commonly built in to the contracts of OL and DL players.  Again, you say it was painfully obvious...what was obvious?  He's fat?  Lots of them in the NFL and SEC for that matter.  Being a fat OL isn't a sign of a bad work ethic...being overweight for the combine, and showing up at camp overweight, and not working to get it off...THOSE are signs of bad work ethic. The issue here isn't his weight, so much as his work ethic and ability to get it off.  Fact is, at the size most of these guys are, they can drop the 25 or 30 lbs they are overweight, by mildly dieting and working out (what a fucking concept for an NFL player huh?) for a couple of weeks.  25 to 30 lbs isn't shit to drop when you're 6-5 350.  Put it off on others if you must...Nicky and his boys lied to the Bengals (and others too) about Andre.  We all know Nicky has a history of lying.  

[RWS]

BIG difference IMO about weight and work ethic.  You can work your ass off and if you eat fifty cheeseburgers when you get home, you still gonna be a fat ass.

He had a hard enough time at Alabama keeping his weight in check. The second he stops playing, he blows up like a fish on a pier. Then there is a mad dash to lose a shit ton of weight before the draft. Then he refuses to work out for the combine, which isn't always a negative thing; when you are somebody like Rolando McClain, or somebody else who is an obvious physical specimen. Then there is the whole Pro Day debacle. Once that is done, he blows back up. Then they sign him. Then his contract basically hinges on his weight.

It was noticeable to anybody who simply paid attention, that he has to have somebody holding his hand all the time to keep his weight in check, and that he will only lose it if he has to. Then he will go back into fatass mode. Nobody on this board can say that this is a surprising development. You should see what they're saying on BOL. Pretty much right along the same line. Nobody is shocked by this development, except the Cincinnati Bengals.

Why is that again?

[Tiger Wench]

Last night on ESPN they challenged Mike Greenberg (?) of Mike & Mike in the Morning to do the same 300 yard shuttle run that Albert Haynesworth and Cody Cheeseburger had to run.  

Marker cones and lines are placed 25 yards apart to indicate the sprint distance. Start with a foot on one line. When instructed by the timer, the player runs to the opposite 25-yard line, touches it with their foot, turns and run back to the start. This is repeated six times without stopping (covering 300 yards total) in 70 seconds. After a rest of 3.5 minutes, the test is repeated and must be completed in 73 seconds.

Greenberg - who is not a current player and is older and who has not been working out for this drill - completed the first one with 3 seconds to spare and did the second one exactly on the money.  He was sucking wind, but as mentioned, he just did this on a whim - no preparation.  He wasn't some guy getting paid a shitpot of money that was supposed to be at off season conditioning knowing he was expected to do this drill.

This tells me it does not have to be that hard if you had been conditioning even a tiny bit...

So... considering that work ethic is an intangible that cannot be measured at a combine when everyone is showing off on purpose... you have to rely on the coaches to report it.  Doesn't sound like bammer did that.

[JR4AU]

He had a hard enough time at Alabama keeping his weight in check. The second he stops playing, he blows up like a fish on a pier. Then there is a mad dash to lose a shit ton of weight before the draft. Then he refuses to work out for the combine, which isn't always a negative thing; when you are somebody like Rolando McClain, or somebody else who is an obvious physical specimen. Then there is the whole Pro Day debacle. Once that is done, he blows back up. Then they sign him. Then his contract basically hinges on his weight.

It was noticeable to anybody who simply paid attention, that he has to have somebody holding his hand all the time to keep his weight in check, and that he will only lose it if he has to. Then he will go back into fatass mode. Nobody on this board can say that this is a surprising development. You should see what they're saying on BOL. Pretty much right along the same line. Nobody is shocked by this development, except the Cincinnati Bengals.

Why is that again?

Because despite what might or might not have been obvious, when they went to Nicky to confirm or dispell suspicions...he lied.  I'd say he probably laid it on pretty thick based on the picture you're painting too.  

[Godfather]

Tubby...err, I mean Andre..is a real hard worker.  Aiight?

Welcome to the board...post often.

[RWS]

Weight clauses are commonly built in to the contracts of OL and DL players.  Again, you say it was painfully obvious...what was obvious?  He's fat?  Lots of them in the NFL and SEC for that matter.  Being a fat OL isn't a sign of a bad work ethic...being overweight for the combine, and showing up at camp overweight, and not working to get it off...THOSE are signs of bad work ethic. The issue here isn't his weight, so much as his work ethic and ability to get it off.  Fact is, at the size most of these guys are, they can drop the 25 or 30 lbs they are overweight, by mildly dieting and working out (what a fucking concept for an NFL player huh?) for a couple of weeks.  25 to 30 lbs isn't shit to drop when you're 6-5 350.  Put it off on others if you must...Nicky and his boys lied to the Bengals (and others too) about Andre.  We all know Nicky has a history of lying.  

I don't know what Saban said. He could have said Smith couldn't be separated from the gym. Maybe he just omitted the part that the gym was Smith's favorite spot to eat Big Macs. I don't know. Even if Saban said the guy was a workout warrior, don't you agree that as a potential employer, you have to use a little objectivity? Does an NFL team hinge millions of dollars on a simple yes or no from a coach? Do they ignore everything else that is obvious based on what the coach says?

Honestly, I think the blame is probably equal. I simply don't believe how Saban could make them believe Smith was a workout warrior. Especially with how his weight was like a roller coaster, and with the S&C program that Alabama has. I'm sure he didn't drive Smith's reputation into the ground or anything, but certainly Saban had to say to himself "There is no way they are going to believe this guy is constantly hitting the weights." I've seen some analysis on HS players on Rivals where the analyst will note lack of work ethic, etc. I highly doubt they get that from the kid's HS coach.

It's kind of like buying a car. The salesman is going to tell me that this car is the best car manufactured. He's going to tell me why it's better than all of the other cars out there. If it's a 1980 Yugo, am I just going to take his word and only his word on it without looking into it a little further?

[RWS]

Because despite what might or might not have been obvious, when they went to Nicky to confirm or dispell suspicions...he lied.  I'd say he probably laid it on pretty thick based on the picture you're painting too.  

The picture you're painting is that the Bengals relied SOLELY on what Saban said. I mean, didn't even bother watching film on him. Didn't bother talking to him. Didn't bother watching any workouts. Didn't bother even Googling him. Nothing. They decided to invest millions upon millions of dollars on a guy based SOLELY on Saban's word that Smith is a workout warrior. Saban's word was the deciding factor in the Bengals drafting him. And they believed him SO much, that they put in specific weight goals in his contract.

I guess the next thing we will hear is that Alabama didn't shoot straight with Baltimore on TC.

[Godfather]

I think weight goals are pretty much standard in most NFL contracts, especially for most of the OL and DL guys.  Other than that I would pretty much say the blame is on fatty himself...no?