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The Library => Haley Center Basement => Topic started by: Lurking Tiger on March 01, 2010, 01:26:53 PM

Title: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Lurking Tiger on March 01, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
I am considering running a Texas Hold 'Em tourney to raise funds for my son's baseball team. I did it several times in the past for a different team with no concerns for any legal consequences as a Cobb County judge and a sheriff were participants.

New team this year and I will have a new set of parents playing. I won’t have the luxury of having any connected participants.

I realize getting busted is about as a remote possibility as getting attacked by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear on the same day. However, many people are worried about just such an event. Is there anyway to circumvent the gaming laws. i.e. I have been told that if there is no re-buy, it is not gambling. I personally think this is horseshit, but it is indicative of the advice I have been getting from folks.

Can someone here clarify the legal issues surrounding the game and is there anyway to completely avoid trouble with The Man.

The team is a recognized 503(c) organization.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: AWK on March 01, 2010, 04:28:25 PM
I am considering running a Texas Hold 'Em tourney to raise funds for my son's baseball team. I did it several times in the past for a different team with no concerns for any legal consequences as a Cobb County judge and a sheriff were participants.

New team this year and I will have a new set of parents playing. I won’t have the luxury of having any connected participants.

I realize getting busted is about as a remote possibility as getting attacked by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear on the same day. However, many people are worried about just such an event. Is there anyway to circumvent the gaming laws. i.e. I have been told that if there is no re-buy, it is not gambling. I personally think this is horseshit, but it is indicative of the advice I have been getting from folks.

Can someone here clarify the legal issues surrounding the game and is there anyway to completely avoid trouble with The Man.

The team is a recognized 503(c) organization.

In Alabama, gaming laws are specific to "House Rules".  Meaning, if there is not a cut taken for the "House" or a casino for that matter, then it is not illegal.  Hence, you can do whatever the fuck you want to with your money.  Also, there are different rules for charity as long as it is specified for that purpose. 

However, I do not know the specific laws governing Georgia gambling.  I assume they are similar, but you never know.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: GarMan on March 01, 2010, 07:13:22 PM
I am considering running a Texas Hold 'Em tourney to raise funds for my son's baseball team. I did it several times in the past for a different team with no concerns for any legal consequences as a Cobb County judge and a sheriff were participants.

New team this year and I will have a new set of parents playing. I won’t have the luxury of having any connected participants.

I realize getting busted is about as a remote possibility as getting attacked by a Grizzly Bear and a Polar Bear on the same day. However, many people are worried about just such an event. Is there anyway to circumvent the gaming laws. i.e. I have been told that if there is no re-buy, it is not gambling. I personally think this is horsepoop, but it is indicative of the advice I have been getting from folks.

Can someone here clarify the legal issues surrounding the game and is there anyway to completely avoid trouble with The Man.

The team is a recognized 503(c) organization. 

Not the legal answer you'd like, but I understand that you can still have a cash game as long as the house doesn't take a cut.  Some of the local bars in Cobb permit cash games, but the establishment is rarely involved.  Some of the charitable events that I've attended in the area take your cash at buy-in, but you won't receive cash at the end of the night.  You exchange chips for prizes.  Things to consider...
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Lurking Tiger on March 01, 2010, 07:25:27 PM
Not the legal answer you'd like, but I understand that you can still have a cash game as long as the house doesn't take a cut.  Some of the local bars in Cobb permit cash games, but the establishment is rarely involved.  Some of the charitable events that I've attended in the area take your cash at buy-in, but you won't receive cash at the end of the night.  You exchange chips for prizes.  Things to consider...

Are you speaking of trips to Marde Gras ? Because I can't hand out those kind of prizes.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: War Eagle!!! on March 01, 2010, 07:49:19 PM
Have a poker tournament. Make the buy in whatever you want. Let's say $100. You can get $100 chips for that initial buy in. Then tell the players that they can have unlimited rebuys up until 1 hour after the first hand is dealt. Those can be for say $50 and you get either $25 or $50 in chips. At the end of the hour, have the option for all players to do final buy in for another $50 or $75 for an additional $100 in chips or so.

Then give prizes to the top 3 places based on how many people you think you will have. If you have 30 people playing, you can get an idea of how much money you will raise and how valuable of prizes you want to give.

This is what I would do...

Oh yeah, and then when people start getting eliminated, have an open cash game with the players getting to play for real money. That will keep people around and bring in more people for the tourny...
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: GarMan on March 01, 2010, 08:01:58 PM
Are you speaking of trips to Marde Gras ? Because I can't hand out those kind of prizes. 

Nah...  But, I like the way you think.  Other prizes like a box of cigars, compact humidor, lighters, gift cards, brass knuckles, blades, stuff like dat...
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Vandy Vol on March 01, 2010, 08:39:53 PM
It's all how you present it, actually...

Quote
Title 16, Chapter 12, Section 21 (16-12-21)

(a) A person commits the offense of gambling when he:

(1) Makes a bet upon the partial or final result of any game or contest or upon the performance of any participant in such game or contest;

(2) Makes a bet upon the result of any political nomination, appointment, or election or upon the degree of success of any nominee, appointee, or candidate; or

(3) Plays and bets for money or other thing of value at any game played with cards, dice, or balls.

Subsection number 3 is the one that would potentially apply to you.  Notice that there is no wording which declares that gambling only occurs when the house takes a cut.  Gambling can occur when people are playing and betting for money, regardless of the existence of a "house" or whether it takes a cut.  The definition of "bet" is given in an earlier section:

Quote
Title 16, Chapter 12, Section 20 (16-12-20)

As used in this part, the term:

(1) "Bet" means an agreement that, dependent upon chance even though accompanied by some skill, one stands to win or lose something of value. A bet does not include:

(A) Contracts of indemnity or guaranty or life, health, property, or accident insurance; or

(B) An offer of a prize, award, or compensation to the actual contestants in any bona fide contest for the determination of skill, speed, strength, or endurance or to the owners of animals, vehicles, watercraft, or aircraft entered in such contest.

All you would have to do is spin this as a Texas Hold 'Em contest.  People put in money and buy chips.  Make those chips different values than the money they put in.  Then have 1st, 2nd and 3rd place prizes; don't have the winners split the pot in any sort of manner.  Just have set prize amounts based upon the number of participants.  This way, it's no different than people paying entry fees into a contest/competition.  They stand to win a prize at the end if they are more skilled, but they're not placing bets and increasing their potential winnings in any sort of gambling sense.

Additionally, I assume the organization is a 501(c)(3), as Section 503(c) deals with the FDA.  Regardless, non-profit organizations are held to the same standards when it comes to gambling, so that doesn't have any affect on the situation.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: wesfau2 on March 02, 2010, 12:42:40 AM
Disclaimer: I am licensed to practice law in Georgia, but I'm in South Beach and too fucked up to look up your fucking answer....and I'm still not your lawyer.

So: play cards, take bets, and shit stomp the motherfucker who tries to rain on your parade.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Saniflush on March 02, 2010, 07:14:40 AM
Disclaimer: I am licensed to practice law in Georgia, but I'm in South Beach and too fucked up to look up your fucking answer....and I'm still not your lawyer.

So: play cards, take bets, and shit stomp the motherfucker who tries to rain on your parade.

Law we can all live with.
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Godfather on March 02, 2010, 11:04:24 AM
Law we can all live with.
I miss my Donkey
Title: Re: Question for the Lawyers
Post by: Saniflush on March 02, 2010, 11:08:01 AM
I miss my Donkey

It'll be ok Kelly.