Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: AUChizad on June 19, 2009, 09:57:10 AM
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http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/06/gus-malzahnauburn-tigers-run-game.html (http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/06/gus-malzahnauburn-tigers-run-game.html)
Just do the link.
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That was refreshingly informative. My faith in the internet is restored. For now.
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X's and O's.. blah blah blah...
The only letters I am interested in are T and D...!
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X's and O's.. blah blah blah...
The only letters I am interested in are T and D...!
Testicles and dicks?
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Funny that was the first thing that came to YOUR mine. Been hanging with Taylor, have we?
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Decent article, doesn't really change my opinion of Malzahn or his offense. I still think the HUNH has two basic problems:
1. Puts too much pressure on your defense. They end up on the field all day, and every game ends up being a shoot-out because the defense is worn out.
2. It limits the size of your offensive linemen. The really massive run blocking linemen can not play at this speed. When the time comes that you really have to grind out some yards, you don't have the linemen to do it. IMO, this is the reason HDN never let Malzahn run the no huddle at Arkansas, he didn't want to give up the big boys blocking for Jones and McFadden.
IMO, Auburn's offense will be fun to watch. I think Auburn blows out the cupcakes, has shoot-outs with the rest of the schedule. Probably between 6 and 8 wins and a bowl game, depending on the quarterback.
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Decent article, doesn't really change my opinion of Malzahn or his offense. I still think the HUNH has two basic problems:
1. Puts too much pressure on your defense. They end up on the field all day, and every game ends up being a shoot-out because the defense is worn out.
2. It limits the size of your offensive linemen. The really massive run blocking linemen can not play at this speed. When the time comes that you really have to grind out some yards, you don't have the linemen to do it. IMO, this is the reason HDN never let Malzahn run the no huddle at Arkansas, he didn't want to give up the big boys blocking for Jones and McFadden.
IMO, Auburn's offense will be fun to watch. I think Auburn blows out the cupcakes, has shoot-outs with the rest of the schedule. Probably between 6 and 8 wins and a bowl game, depending on the quarterback.
The defense has to be prepared for the HUNH, also. They need to be working on their stamina right now.
But, the only way they are gonna see the field any longer is if they regularly give up long sustained drives. The turnaround can be quick, though. HUNH can score or go 3 and out really fast. Can. Not always. The team needs to have plenty of oxygen bottles on hand.
I'm sure the DC will let Gus know when his men are getting winded. Depends on the game situation as to IF Gus will even run the HUNH exclusively. Maybe not as much in his first year, too.
Gus is just sharp at figuring out defenses and giving his players a chance to exploit their weak points. He is adaptable.
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Decent article, doesn't really change my opinion of Malzahn or his offense. I still think the HUNH has two basic problems:
1. Puts too much pressure on your defense. They end up on the field all day, and every game ends up being a shoot-out because the defense is worn out.
2. It limits the size of your offensive linemen. The really massive run blocking linemen can not play at this speed. When the time comes that you really have to grind out some yards, you don't have the linemen to do it. IMO, this is the reason HDN never let Malzahn run the no huddle at Arkansas, he didn't want to give up the big boys blocking for Jones and McFadden.
IMO, Auburn's offense will be fun to watch. I think Auburn blows out the cupcakes, has shoot-outs with the rest of the schedule. Probably between 6 and 8 wins and a bowl game, depending on the quarterback.
I think this is alot of the reason why we didn't see much of the HUNH during Franklin's tenure. From what I understand, Malzahn's scheme calls for alot quicker pace than Franklin's. Not sure how that is going to work out at the SEC level, but if it can be done successfuly, it should be interesting. The actual play schemes Malzahn uses are simplistic by nature, so if you can manage to slow their pace and get them off rhythm and make them play the way your defense wants them to play, I don't think it will be an issue to defenses.
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Decent article, doesn't really change my opinion of Malzahn or his offense. I still think the HUNH has two basic problems:
1. Puts too much pressure on your defense. They end up on the field all day, and every game ends up being a shoot-out because the defense is worn out.
2. It limits the size of your offensive linemen. The really massive run blocking linemen can not play at this speed. When the time comes that you really have to grind out some yards, you don't have the linemen to do it. IMO, this is the reason HDN never let Malzahn run the no huddle at Arkansas, he didn't want to give up the big boys blocking for Jones and McFadden.
IMO, Auburn's offense will be fun to watch. I think Auburn blows out the cupcakes, has shoot-outs with the rest of the schedule. Probably between 6 and 8 wins and a bowl game, depending on the quarterback.
Love it, a fan think they know more than a coach about football. You're information on the OL is contrary to what they are doing at Auburn...ie, adding weight. The entire piece was pretty much written to show that it's a power run game with only cosmetic differences, and you act like it's still something out of the ordinary. Not a good effort on your part.
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Tulsa OL 2008 starters
LT 78 Tyler Holmes 6-3, 299, RFr.
LG 76 Curt Puckett 6-4, 297, Jr
C 65 Jody Whaley 6-4, 302, Jr
RG 53 Justin Morsey 6-2, 282, Jr
RT 70 Rodrick Thomas 6-5, 354,
Hogwally, you're "The big boys can't run at that pace argument fails, even by Tulsa size standards.
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Tulsa OL 2008 starters
LT 78 Tyler Holmes 6-3, 299, RFr.
LG 76 Curt Puckett 6-4, 297, Jr
C 65 Jody Whaley 6-4, 302, Jr
RG 53 Justin Morsey 6-2, 282, Jr
RT 70 Rodrick Thomas 6-5, 354,
Hogwally, you're "The big boys can't run at that pace argument fails, even by Tulsa size standards.
If they are athletic as hell, they can still be big and get it done. AU's smallest OL is 224 and the largest is 313. Now, here's the deal: AU's OL couldn't get it done in 08 running a slowed down Tony Franklin offense. I think yall lost 1 or 2 out of that group as well. So, how does this group get it done in 09 running a pace way faster than Tony Franklin's system?
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If they are athletic as hell, they can still be big and get it done. AU's smallest OL is 224 and the largest is 313. Now, here's the deal: AU's OL couldn't get it done in 08 running a slowed down Tony Franklin offense. I think yall lost 1 or 2 out of that group as well. So, how does this group get it done in 09 running a pace way faster than Tony Franklin's system?
First off, last season was a fiasco internally. They didn't get it done because nobody was pulling in the same direction. Nall hadn't bought in, and by the time the season rolled around, the writing was on the wall. Forget about it.
New day, all new coaches. I have heard from many sources that though the team loved Tubs, they knew he'd retired while on duty, and they've welcomed the change.
If you understand anything about OL play, you know that on many plays some of them aren't called on to do much especially if they're not on the play side. In pass game they're giving ground and hand fighting. Once a running play crosses the LOS, they're basically done, while the DL and whole D is in pursuit. They don't have to give the same type effort for as long on the OL as they do on the DL on every play. This is part of the reason that the DL is constantly running players in and out, while the starting five OL take every snap until the game is no longer in doubt, or the whole game. They don't sub to spell OL because it's not necessary like it is for DL, and because chemistry is a very important part of playing OL. Tulsa worked up to it. Auburn won't be going light speed in game one...and they'll be faster paced in year 2. Also, part of the theory of the pace of play is to prevent defensive subs, and thus the DL is having to take more snaps at the accellerated pace than they normally would. They will have off season workouts geared to get them in proper shape. Merely pointing to last season, and a coaching staff no longer there, as an indicator of future performance is a failing argument. Also, that writer has now written two pieces about Malzahn, and hasn't even mentioned OL having a problem with the pace of play. The guy is a football coach, and I think he's mention it if he thought it was an issue. Also have to wonder why, if they have to be svelt athletic types as you say, that they're all being told to gain weight.
None of this is to say that Auburn will light up the scoreboard this season, or that the OL play will be stellar (though our starting five are fairly talented, and experienced, and if healthy the OL should be good) but the issues fans contrive are largely due to ignorance or hearing someone else ignorantly proffer it.
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When you look around college football, I don't think it's a stretch to say that more teams than not are running some form of a spread offense in their package. Gus Malzahn's offense is not some crazy ass concoction that no one has seen and you certainly don't have to have a certain size with your linemen to be successful. Franklin thought he had to have smaller, quicker linemen so he had guys like Pugh and Bosley playing around 270 and Ziemba closer to 280. As mentioned above, it was a failed experiment by the start of the season with nobody being on the same page. After Franklin left, they ultimately went back to a basic, high school offense and couldn't even blow a good 2A high school team off the ball.
One thing people fail to take into account is that the linemen had to lose all that weight to be able to imitate a prarie dog every play. That shit takes skillz.
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When you look around college football, I don't think it's a stretch to say that more teams than not are running some form of a spread offense in their package. Gus Malzahn's offense is not some crazy ass concoction that no one has seen and you certainly don't have to have a certain size with your linemen to be successful.
Spot on! Some guy on another site was saying yesterday how he wished Auburn would get under center and run power run plays some to keep it "Auburn Football". I swear some fans think that when coaches arrive on campus, they tell them "We hired you as OC, but here's OUR playbook...it's Auburn Football". This guy also suggested that most teams in the conference are running power football out of the power I (a three back set), wishbone, or Tight I sets...I wondered what conference he was talking about, because it sure aint the SEC! He swore it was.
Anyway, the piece wasn't a predictor of any level of success, it was merely an Xs and Os piece to illustrate what Malzahn does...which is, in fact what is being done successfully (when you have talented football players) at every level from pee wee ball to the NFL. Block down, kick out is standard power football. Trap, Counter, and Zone too. It can be run from the I formation, pro set, single back, and of course the shotgun, but EVERY football team does it in some form or fashion. It doesn't take a special set of unique football players to run, it takes talented players like any other offense.
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Slap me please for using them as a reference, but Bama is one of the few teams left in our conference using base, power I sets. To his credit, Saban still tries to cram it down your throat and use play action to open up the passing game. That was a lot easier to do running over the left side of their line last year. SJPWilson was a senior last year but really didn't have, nor did he need to have a big season. I was shocked by his numbers, or lack thereof by the Iron Bowl.
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Slap me please for using them as a reference, but Bama is one of the few teams left in our conference using base, power I sets. To his credit, Saban still tries to cram it down your throat and use play action to open up the passing game. That was a lot easier to do running over the left side of their line last year. SJPWilson was a senior last year but really didn't have, nor did he need to have a big season. I was shocked by his numbers, or lack thereof by the Iron Bowl.
In JPWs case, it was addition by subtraction. They limited his roll in the offense, and improved. He had record setting years in 2006 and 2007...and they were a .500 team...take him out of the equation as much as possible, and they're 12-2.
'scuse me...12-0...they don't count the last 2 and call it "an undefeated regular season". Sounds better.
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Love it, a fan think they know more than a coach about football. You're information on the OL is contrary to what they are doing at Auburn...ie, adding weight. The entire piece was pretty much written to show that it's a power run game with only cosmetic differences, and you act like it's still something out of the ordinary. Not a good effort on your part.
Well I am sorry I disappointed you. I work hard to live up to your expectations, and it hurts me when I don't get your approval. BTW, I don't think I know more than the coach, I just don't happen to believe in his philosophy. So far, he's only won in HS. If he wins big in the SEC, perhaps he will convert me. I am sure Mike Leach and June Jones know much more about football than I do as well, yet they continue (Leach continues, anyway) to rack up huge offensive numbers without winning big games or championships. Please don't lecture me on the differences between the two offenses. I realize they are different, but I don't believe either one will lead to the top of the college football heap.
Tulsa OL 2008 starters
LT 78 Tyler Holmes 6-3, 299, RFr.
LG 76 Curt Puckett 6-4, 297, Jr
C 65 Jody Whaley 6-4, 302, Jr
RG 53 Justin Morsey 6-2, 282, Jr
RT 70 Rodrick Thomas 6-5, 354,
Hogwally, you're "The big boys can't run at that pace argument fails, even by Tulsa size standards.
I don't understand why you posted this, you make my point for me. All these guys are small, except the one tackle. I don't know for sure, but I bet he didn't go the whole game. Big offensive linemen are 330-350 lb. or more these days.
The problem with the no huddle and offensive linemen is not only do you have to block during the play, which is exhausting, but then you have to run to the ball, get set, and go again without the 40 or so seconds to catch your breath you normally get in the huddle. And yes, the defense has to run more chasing the ball, but in my limited experience playing on the offensive line was much more exhausting than playing on the defensive line.
Again, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong. We'll see when they take the field next year.
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I need some fuckin' Cliff Notes.
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So far, he's only won in HS.
Come again?
He was 8-0 at Arky prior to Nutty yanking the reins away from him.
At Tulsa, his side of the ball more than held their own (#2 and #1 offenses, respectively, under his guidance).
You're just fucking wrong about this.
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Come again?
He was 8-0 at Arky prior to Nutty yanking the reins away from him.
At Tulsa, his side of the ball more than held their own (#2 and #1 offenses, respectively, under his guidance).
You're just fucking wrong about this.
Jumbo, these are your Cliff Notes.
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Well I am sorry I disappointed you. I work hard to live up to your expectations, and it hurts me when I don't get your approval. BTW, I don't think I know more than the coach, I just don't happen to believe in his philosophy. So far, he's only won in HS. If he wins big in the SEC, perhaps he will convert me. I am sure Mike Leach and June Jones know much more about football than I do as well, yet they continue (Leach continues, anyway) to rack up huge offensive numbers without winning big games or championships. Please don't lecture me on the differences between the two offenses. I realize they are different, but I don't believe either one will lead to the top of the college football heap.
I don't understand why you posted this, you make my point for me. All these guys are small, except the one tackle. I don't know for sure, but I bet he didn't go the whole game. Big offensive linemen are 330-350 lb. or more these days.
The problem with the no huddle and offensive linemen is not only do you have to block during the play, which is exhausting, but then you have to run to the ball, get set, and go again without the 40 or so seconds to catch your breath you normally get in the huddle. And yes, the defense has to run more chasing the ball, but in my limited experience playing on the offensive line was much more exhausting than playing on the defensive line.
Again, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong. We'll see when they take the field next year.
No disappointment...you're a typical ignorant football fan. You probably say things like "the coach didn't make adjustments at halftime" without knowing what they were doing in the first place, or realizing that sometimes adjusments are anticipated...or "the QB stares down his receivers" without realizing that he has to look at them to throw to them, and without realizing that his reads or progressions dictate where he looks. Completely expected "fan boy" talk.
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I stared down this girl by the pool the other day and made adjustments to my drawers.
Despite what she said, I don't think I'm a dirty old bastard.
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I stared down this girl by the pool the other day and made adjustments to my drawers.
Despite what she said, I don't think I'm a dirty old bastard.
Ah, it's ok to be a dirty old bastard. She was probably a lesbian!
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No disappointment...you're a typical ignorant football fan. You probably say things like "the coach didn't make adjustments at halftime" without knowing what they were doing in the first place, or realizing that sometimes adjusments are anticipated...or "the QB stares down his receivers" without realizing that he has to look at them to throw to them, and without realizing that his reads or progressions dictate where he looks. Completely expected "fan boy" talk.
Wally, it's drunk helicopter time.
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No disappointment...you're a typical ignorant football fan. You probably say things like "the coach didn't make adjustments at halftime" without knowing what they were doing in the first place, or realizing that sometimes adjusments are anticipated...or "the QB stares down his receivers" without realizing that he has to look at them to throw to them, and without realizing that his reads or progressions dictate where he looks. Completely expected "fan boy" talk.
That's me, typical and ignorant. That's why I come to this site, to learn from you experts. Thank you also for letting everyone know what I probably say, even though you've never heard me say any of those things.
BTW, is it possible to change my name from Hogwally to "fanboy"?
Come again?
He was 8-0 at Arky prior to Nutty yanking the reins away from him.
At Tulsa, his side of the ball more than held their own (#2 and #1 offenses, respectively, under his guidance).
You're just fucking wrong about this.
Ah, another expert, who points out that my Hogs were 8-0 with Malzahn at coordinator before HDN "yanked the reins away from him". Thank you for reminding me, as ignorant as I am, I have a hard time remembering how my team did in the past.
Unfortunately, this post was about the HUNH, Which Arkansas didn't run. So while yes, we were 8-0. the No Huddle part of Malzahn's philosophy had nothing to do with it. (and I am the one who gets called ignorant). I won't even argue about the whole yanking the reins thing away, I've read too much of that on Arkansas boards.
As for the second part, yes they put up huge numbers at Tulsa. But again, if you had read my post I said if the do it in the SEC I will become a believer. Against Arkansas, a bottom half SEC team last year, they managed 344 yards and 23 points. Not exactly world beaters.
Look, I didn't realize this was such a sore subject for you guys. I mean, if your going to get all upset and go to name calling, I'll keep my opinions to myself. I'll just read along, collecting pearls of wisdom from you learned scholars.
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That's me, typical and ignorant. That's why I come to this site, to learn from you experts. Thank you also for letting everyone know what I probably say, even though you've never heard me say any of those things.
BTW, is it possible to change my name from Hogwally to "fanboy"?
Ah, another expert, who points out that my Hogs were 8-0 with Malzahn at coordinator before HDN "yanked the reins away from him". Thank you for reminding me, as ignorant as I am, I have a hard time remembering how my team did in the past.
Unfortunately, this post was about the HUNH, Which Arkansas didn't run. So while yes, we were 8-0. the No Huddle part of Malzahn's philosophy had nothing to do with it. (and I am the one who gets called ignorant). I won't even argue about the whole yanking the reins thing away, I've read too much of that on Arkansas boards.
As for the second part, yes they put up huge numbers at Tulsa. But again, if you had read my post I said if the do it in the SEC I will become a believer. Against Arkansas, a bottom half SEC team last year, they managed 344 yards and 23 points. Not exactly world beaters.
Look, I didn't realize this was such a sore subject for you guys. I mean, if your going to get all upset and go to name calling, I'll keep my opinions to myself. I'll just read along, collecting pearls of wisdom from you learned scholars.
You used "Your" improperly, Fanboy. Sheesh!!!
The point you made about the 8-0 run and the style of offense actually run is why I'm nothing more than cautiously optimistic about what we'll see and how successful Malzahn's offense will ultimately be. I didn't pay attention to the other 7 wins but was at the win at Auburn with Mitchell Mudstain at the helm. Definitely nothing wide open about that game plan and in fact, I don't think MM threw the ball 10 times.
I'd like to think that was by Malzahn's design and he did what he needed to do to beat Auburn that day. I did like what I saw in the spring game; however, I'm fully aware that doesn't translate to SEC W's. I'm just happy to have everyone moving in the same direction for the first time in about 3-4 years.
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I'll do it this way...
Decent article, doesn't really change my opinion of Malzahn or his offense. I still think the HUNH has two basic problems:
1. Puts too much pressure on your defense. They end up on the field all day, and every game ends up being a shoot-out because the defense is worn out.
Any offense that moves the ball, and scores points helps the defense, and any offense that goes three and out hurts the defense. The extra few seconds of breather is hardely criticle in the end if you don't score points.
2. It limits the size of your offensive linemen. The really massive run blocking linemen can not play at this speed. When the time comes that you really have to grind out some yards, you don't have the linemen to do it. IMO, this is the reason HDN never let Malzahn run the no huddle at Arkansas, he didn't want to give up the big boys blocking for Jones and McFadden.
I guess that's why they're asking our current OL to beef up, recruited 2 325 plus in the 2009 class, and are looking at huge linemen for the 2010 class. Sorry, you don't seem to understand OL play. There's a reason that the starting five play all the meaningful snaps, and don't get spelled like DL. Remeber, the DL has to play at that pace too...and part of the theory is that they don't have time to sub as often. And in long games, OT games...who is pushing who around...the OL is pushing around a tired DL. Sorry your issuing pure baseless speculation.
IMO, Auburn's offense will be fun to watch. I think Auburn blows out the cupcakes, has shoot-outs with the rest of the schedule. Probably between 6 and 8 wins and a bowl game, depending on the quarterback.
Tell you what. Our defense is thin this year, and if we're in shootouts it will be because of that, not because of the offense. Lots of coaches I talk to say Malzahn is very good. Not a one of them says it's a problem for Offensive linemen. 2 pieces written by the guy about Malzahn, one particularly focussed on the pace, and it didn't mention a word about not being able to have run blocking linemen.