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Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: JR4AU on February 19, 2013, 10:40:16 PM
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If this has been posted, sorry. Copy paste follows.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21733077/oversigning-index-on-another-front-its-still-alabama-and-everyone-else
Oversigning Index: On another front, it's still Alabama and everyone else
By Matt Hinton | Blogger
February 19, 2013 7:27 pm ET
Last week, four Alabama players were arrested on felony charges, suspended indefinitely from the team and barred from campus. In Tuscaloosa, the news prompted opposite reactions.
Per standard protocol, Crimson Tide fans braced themselves for a tidal wave of schadenfreude, inevitable taunts of "Parole Tide!" and the early lead in the Fulmer Cup. At the same time, though, there was virtually none of the usual handwringing over the impact to the depth chart. This time, the offenders were utterly expendable, for reasons that had nothing to do with the fact that they happened to be backups: Not only can the defending BCS champs afford to lose a handful of potential contributors in one fell swoop, but more so than any other major college football team this spring, it actually needs to. After adding 26 new names to the roster earlier this month -- and landing again in its familiar spot atop the national recruiting rankings -- Alabama is the most oversigned outfit in the nation.
That should come as no surprise, given that Bama has consistently (and legally) operated on the edge of NCAA scholarship caps throughout Nick Saban's tenure. Ostensibly, teams are limited to 85 scholarship players on the roster at any given time. In practice, because the NCAA doesn't do a head count until the start of preseason practice in July or August, sometimes long after incoming freshmen and other newcomers have already arrived on campus, coaches can cross the line on national signing day as long as they're able to come in under the cap six months later. Yet even after a concerted crackdown on "oversigning" by the SEC over the past three years, no coach in any league overshot the mark this year with such gusto.
Alabama wasn't very far from the line to begin with. The Crimson Tide only lost a dozen scholarship players from last year's unusually young BCS championship team, including three early departures for the NFL and a former walk-on (long snapper Carson Tinker) who was awarded a scholarship before last season, leaving them with at least 70 scholarship players scheduled to return in 2013 and a maximum of 14 available openings. Still, on signing day, Bama added almost twice that number -- including, yes, a two-star prospect from California, Cole Mazza, who is projected strictly as a long snapper. Few other schools had so few slots to fill, and the ones that did did not come close to overshooting the mark by such a distance: Relative to the competition, Saban and his staff effectively recruited as if scholarship limits do not exist.
Of course they do exist, and one way or another Alabama must toe the line by the start of preseason practice like everyone else. That can happen any number of ways, and already has: One of the 26 signees in the new class, three-star offensive lineman Bradley Bozeman, has already agreed to "grayshirt," or delay his enrollment until 2014 so as not to count against this year's scholarship cap; a few of his more touted classmates will probably be forced to follow suit. One or two others may fall short academically. As we've already seen, legal and disciplinary issues can unexpectedly thin the ranks overnight. Inevitably, some veteran backups will read the writing on the wall and decide to transfer some place with a more accommodating depth chart.
If all else fails, it comes down to making cuts, preferably in a fashion that doesn't involve actually having to say, "you're cut," which Saban adamantly denies he has ever done. The first to go are usually fifth-year seniors who are unlikely to contribute, a relatively uncontroversial move as it's common at many schools for veteran backups to bow out quietly after four years with a degree in hand. (Alabama has several candidates for this path, most notably linebacker Jonathan Atchison and defensive linemen William Ming, Anthony Orr and Chris Bonds, all members of the 2009 recruiting class who have yet to earn a letter.) Injured players may be asked to accept a medical hardship, which allows them to remain on scholarship without counting against the cap but effectively ends their career, even if the injury is not necessarily career-ending. (Saban has been criticized in the past for using the hardship more than any other coach, and by players who said they felt pressured to accept a hardship. At least one player who was released for medical reasons has gone on to play at another school, albeit on a much lower level.) Though all transfers are technically voluntary, some may come with a tacit endorsement from coaches -- only looking out for the player's best interest in getting on the field, naturally. Asking an incoming recruit to delay enrollment after he's signed a letter of intent is a last resort. But whatever it takes, there is no way around the fact that somewhere in the vicinity of a dozen players currently slated to wear the Crimson Tide uniform this fall will be culled from the roster over the next six months.
(For the record, here is a complete breakdown of Alabama's current roster by signing class, including incoming recruits in the class of 2013 and the four recently arrested players -- Brent Calloway, Tyler Hayes, D.J. Pettway and Eddie Williams -- who have been suspended from the team but not dismissed.)
No other team is facing that level of inevitable, automatic attrition. The closest to Alabama, numbers-wise, is Washington, which also lost just 12 scholarship players from last year's roster but just signed 22, bringing its unofficial scholarship count to at least 91 (not including any former walk-ons who may have earned scholarships). Among teams from the "Big Six" conferences with automatic BCS bids, current rosters indicate Virginia (90 scholarship players), Vanderbilt (89) and Oregon State (88) also have some relatively intensive trimming to do between now and August:
Assembling those numbers is not only a time-consuming exercise: It's also a quixotic one, no matter how meticulously researched, amounting to a fleeting snapshot of living organisms in a constant state of flux. Walk-ons, medical hardships and other vagaries are not easily accounted for.
In general, though, it's fair to say that recent rules changes targeting oversigning have largely paid off, especially in the SEC, whose members once dominated the genre to an extent that is no longer true across the conference as a whole. Every team beneath the top two or three on that list is well within the range of "natural" attrition, and most of them will probably end up a little below the cap once grades, legal issues and injuries have taken their toll. In several of those cases -- see Michigan, Notre Dame and Texas, for sure -- the more obsessive factions of the fan base can already predict which fifth-year seniors are likely on their way out. Oregon State has enthusiastically embraced the grayshirt under coach Mike Riley. Kentucky, now under the watch of first-year head coach Mark Stoops, can expect the usual exodus that tends to follow the arrival of a new staff. Spring practice is a reliable filter for players who fail to make a move on the depth chart and opt for a transfer.
(Graphic here)
So outside of Tuscaloosa, it looks like business as usual. No, scratch that: Inside Tuscaloosa, it looks like business as usual, too. Nick Saban is just running his business on a slightly different scale.
Just click this one for the pic: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21732814/photo-aj-mccarrons-car-has-a-brand-new-boot-on-it
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I saw that. He's a football player, he can park anywhere. :moon:
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(http://www.cbssports.com/images/collegefootball/13:02:18-Alabama_Roster.jpg)
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Can someone pleeze to splain' dee rules on signing? The only thing I'm certain of is you can only have 85 scholarship players on your roster. That's it! After that, I don't have a clue what the actual rules are. Am I wrong in thinking that 25 is the limit you can sign in any one class? I know I've heard and read that many times. Wasn't that limit implemented after Houston Testicle signed 173 a few years ago? What allows you to sign more than the 25 (Or whatever the number is) in a class? Graduations? Transfers? Kicked off? Academic casualties? JUCO? Lord Saybinz?
Just asking because I KNOW there are specific rules in place, yet you see multiple teams every year signing 30+ and in this case, if these numbers are correct, having more scholly players on the roster than the rules allow.
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Can someone pleeze to splain' dee rules on signing? The only thing I'm certain of is you can only have 85 scholarship players on your roster. That's it! After that, I don't have a clue what the actual rules are. Am I wrong in thinking that 25 is the limit you can sign in any one class? I know I've heard and read that many times. Wasn't that limit implemented after Houston Testicle signed 173 a few years ago? What allows you to sign more than the 25 (Or whatever the number is) in a class? Graduations? Transfers? Kicked off? Academic casualties? JUCO? Lord Saybinz?
Just asking because I KNOW there are specific rules in place, yet you see multiple teams every year signing 30+ and in this case, if these numbers are correct, having more scholly players on the roster than the rules allow.
In the next 6 months, there will be quite a few injuries to senior backups at bammer!
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In the next 6 months, there will be quite a few injuries to senior backups at bammer!
Yep. And I will add that I do not blame anyone for using the loophole. Kid keeps his scholly and doesn't need to go to practice. It's an unfair advantage to big schools though, I would think. It's a tidy way to send them packing without cutting their scholly and suffering the PR backlash--at least this is what I assume.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306.html
SPORTS
September 24, 2010
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Alabama's Unhappy Castoffs
Ex-Players Say Coach Nick Saban Pressured Them to Take Medical Scholarships; a 'Bitter' Outcome.
By HANNAH KARP And DARREN EVERSON
Sports Illustrated/Getty Images
Alabama coach Nick Saban leading his team onto the field before a Sept. 11 game against Penn State.
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Former Alabama football players say the school's No. 1-ranked football program has tried to gain a competitive edge by encouraging some underperforming players to quit the team for medical reasons, even in cases where the players are still healthy enough to play.
At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a "medical" scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don't lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team.
Three Alabama players who've taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren't serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field.
"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."
Alabama isn't the only school that has given players medical scholarships. Including the Crimson Tide, the 12 members of the Southeastern Conference have given at least 25 of these scholarships to football players in the past three years. Ultimately, it's the school's decision whether a player is healthy enough to play football.
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In a statement, Doug Walker, the school's associate athletic director for media relations, said Alabama's first priority in these situations is always the health of its players. "Decisions about medical disqualifications for student-athletes are made by medical professionals and adhere to the parameters outlined by the NCAA…and the Southeastern Conference," he said in the statement.
The school added that the "process for medical disqualification is very similar from campus to campus across the country." Alabama said that student-athletes sign a medical-exemption certificate agreeing that they fully understand the conditions, that the diagnosis of the injury or illness clearly appears to be an incapacitating one, and that there's a "reasonable expectation" they'll never again be able to play.
An Alabama spokesman said the school won't discuss individual cases, citing health-privacy laws. Mr. Saban declined to comment.
How college-football teams manage their allotted number of players is a serious competitive issue in the sport. The 120 schools in the NCAA's Football Bowl Subdivision, the sport's highest echelon, are limited to 85 scholarship athletes each. No more than 25 new signees are allowed to join a team in the fall. Because injuries are common, teams do whatever they can to make sure those spots are filled by the best athletes.
Because some players may fail to qualify academically, some teams take on more players than they have room for, to make sure they don't get caught short. The problem for teams comes when the numbers don't work out and the team winds up needing to make cuts.
Alabama, which won the national championship last season, is off to a dominating 3-0 start this year, including a blowout win over Penn State. The Crimson Tide play at No. 10 Arkansas Saturday in the weekend's most anticipated game.
The program is one of several in the SEC that have developed reputations for pushing roster limits. Since Mr. Saban took over as coach after a stint with the NFL's Miami Dolphins, Alabama has routinely had to trim its roster ahead of the season. Placing players on medical scholarships has helped it do so.
In some cases, the players who took these scholarships say they didn't feel pressured. Charles Hoke, a former Alabama offensive lineman who took a medical scholarship in 2008 because of a shoulder problem, said the choice was left entirely up to him and was based on the many conversations he had with the team's doctors and trainers over the course of his junior year.
Others who took these scholarships say they believe the school is violating the spirit of the rule. Mr. Kirschman, the linebacker, said he injured his back in April 2008 but continued practicing with the team through the spring of 2009. That May, he was approached by coaches and trainers and asked to take a medical scholarship.
"I wasn't playing significant minutes, but I was personally upset because I did anything coach asked, I was a team player, I had a 4.0 average," said Mr. Kirschman, who played in two career games, both in 2008, and is now working full time as a robot programmer at Mercedes.
Mr. Kirschman said the school offered in the summer of 2009 to pay for his graduate degree in business—an offer he accepted—and that he still gets some of the same perks as players. "I still get game tickets, which is nice," he says.
Mr. Kirschman said the decision to take the medical scholarship was ultimately his, and that he decided to do it to open up a scholarship for the good of the team. But he said he felt he was pressured. "It was pushed," he said. "It was instigated for several players."
In August 2009, Jeramie Griffin, a redshirt sophomore running back at Alabama, tore an anterior cruciate ligament in his knee during a practice—an injury that kept him out for that season. After undergoing surgery, he said, "I came back in the spring and I was OK."
Indeed, Mr. Griffin's bio on Alabama's official athletics website said he "looked strong in 2010 spring drills, just eight months off of surgery."
Mr. Griffin said that he was surprised last month when the football staff told him he had failed a physical. At that point, Mr. Griffin said, Mr. Saban sat him down and asked him what he wanted to do besides playing football. He said that Mr. Saban floated the possibility of a medical scholarship and asked if Mr. Griffin was interested in student coaching.
Mr. Griffin said he doesn't contest the results of the physical and said it was "basically my decision" to forgo the rest of his playing career.
Mr. Griffin said he has agreed to take a job as a student coach. He added that he felt less angry about being pushed to take the medical scholarship—which frees up roster space for the team—than he did about not living up to his potential.
"I felt like I could have played," he said.
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Yep.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575509901468451306.html
SPORTS
September 24, 2010
.
Alabama's Unhappy Castoffs
Ex-Players Say Coach Nick Saban Pressured Them to Take Medical Scholarships; a 'Bitter' Outcome.
By HANNAH KARP And DARREN EVERSON
Sports Illustrated/Getty Images
Alabama coach Nick Saban leading his team onto the field before a Sept. 11 game against Penn State.
.
Former Alabama football players say the school's No. 1-ranked football program has tried to gain a competitive edge by encouraging some underperforming players to quit the team for medical reasons, even in cases where the players are still healthy enough to play.
At least 12 times since coach Nick Saban took over the program in 2007, Alabama has offered players a "medical" scholarship, according to public statements made by the team. These scholarships, which are allowed under NCAA rules, are intended to make sure scholarship athletes who are too injured to play don't lose their financial aid. A player who receives one of these scholarships is finished playing with that team.
Three Alabama players who've taken these exemptions say they believe the team uses the practice as a way to clear spots for better players by cutting players it no longer wants. These players said they believe Mr. Saban and his staff pressure some players to take these scholarships even though their injuries aren't serious enough to warrant keeping them off the field.
"I'm still kind of bitter," said former Alabama linebacker Chuck Kirschman, who took a medical scholarship last year. Mr. Kirschman said Mr. Saban encouraged him to accept the scholarship because of a back problem that he believes he could have played through. "It's a business," Mr. Kirschman said. "College football is all about politics. And this is a loophole in the system."
Alabama isn't the only school that has given players medical scholarships. Including the Crimson Tide, the 12 members of the Southeastern Conference have given at least 25 of these scholarships to football players in the past three years. Ultimately, it's the school's decision whether a player is healthy enough to play football.
More College Football
Down and Distance: Goliath Hasn't Gone Anywhere
Enough With the Statues, Already
The latest college football news and scores
.
In a statement, Doug Walker, the school's associate athletic director for media relations, said Alabama's first priority in these situations is always the health of its players. "Decisions about medical disqualifications for student-athletes are made by medical professionals and adhere to the parameters outlined by the NCAA…and the Southeastern Conference," he said in the statement.
The school added that the "process for medical disqualification is very similar from campus to campus across the country." Alabama said that student-athletes sign a medical-exemption certificate agreeing that they fully understand the conditions, that the diagnosis of the injury or illness clearly appears to be an incapacitating one, and that there's a "reasonable expectation" they'll never again be able to play.
An Alabama spokesman said the school won't discuss individual cases, citing health-privacy laws. Mr. Saban declined to comment.
How college-football teams manage their allotted number of players is a serious competitive issue in the sport. The 120 schools in the NCAA's Football Bowl Subdivision, the sport's highest echelon, are limited to 85 scholarship athletes each. No more than 25 new signees are allowed to join a team in the fall. Because injuries are common, teams do whatever they can to make sure those spots are filled by the best athletes.
Because some players may fail to qualify academically, some teams take on more players than they have room for, to make sure they don't get caught short. The problem for teams comes when the numbers don't work out and the team winds up needing to make cuts.
Alabama, which won the national championship last season, is off to a dominating 3-0 start this year, including a blowout win over Penn State. The Crimson Tide play at No. 10 Arkansas Saturday in the weekend's most anticipated game.
The program is one of several in the SEC that have developed reputations for pushing roster limits. Since Mr. Saban took over as coach after a stint with the NFL's Miami Dolphins, Alabama has routinely had to trim its roster ahead of the season. Placing players on medical scholarships has helped it do so.
In some cases, the players who took these scholarships say they didn't feel pressured. Charles Hoke, a former Alabama offensive lineman who took a medical scholarship in 2008 because of a shoulder problem, said the choice was left entirely up to him and was based on the many conversations he had with the team's doctors and trainers over the course of his junior year.
Others who took these scholarships say they believe the school is violating the spirit of the rule. Mr. Kirschman, the linebacker, said he injured his back in April 2008 but continued practicing with the team through the spring of 2009. That May, he was approached by coaches and trainers and asked to take a medical scholarship.
"I wasn't playing significant minutes, but I was personally upset because I did anything coach asked, I was a team player, I had a 4.0 average," said Mr. Kirschman, who played in two career games, both in 2008, and is now working full time as a robot programmer at Mercedes.
Mr. Kirschman said the school offered in the summer of 2009 to pay for his graduate degree in business—an offer he accepted—and that he still gets some of the same perks as players. "I still get game tickets, which is nice," he says.
Mr. Kirschman said the decision to take the medical scholarship was ultimately his, and that he decided to do it to open up a scholarship for the good of the team. But he said he felt he was pressured. "It was pushed," he said. "It was instigated for several players."
In August 2009, Jeramie Griffin, a redshirt sophomore running back at Alabama, tore an anterior cruciate ligament in his knee during a practice—an injury that kept him out for that season. After undergoing surgery, he said, "I came back in the spring and I was OK."
Indeed, Mr. Griffin's bio on Alabama's official athletics website said he "looked strong in 2010 spring drills, just eight months off of surgery."
Mr. Griffin said that he was surprised last month when the football staff told him he had failed a physical. At that point, Mr. Griffin said, Mr. Saban sat him down and asked him what he wanted to do besides playing football. He said that Mr. Saban floated the possibility of a medical scholarship and asked if Mr. Griffin was interested in student coaching.
Mr. Griffin said he doesn't contest the results of the physical and said it was "basically my decision" to forgo the rest of his playing career.
Mr. Griffin said he has agreed to take a job as a student coach. He added that he felt less angry about being pushed to take the medical scholarship—which frees up roster space for the team—than he did about not living up to his potential.
"I felt like I could have played," he said.
That article was from 2010. I'm sure the numbers are much more flagrant now.
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That article was from 2010. I'm sure the numbers are much more flagrant now.
Yeah, I'm sure they are. I just remembered this one article. Thing is, I'm not against it. It's not illegal. We can use it too.
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Yeah, I'm sure they are. I just remembered this one article. Thing is, I'm not against it. It's not illegal. We can use it too.
That goes back to the real question I was trying to pose in my post above. If it's not illegal, why aren't we doing it? Why have we consistently been well below the 85 limit for some time now? I mean, if it's okay to sign 32 each year and cull what you don't want/need....why are we still not at the 85 max?
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That goes back to the real question I was trying to pose in my post above. If it's not illegal, why aren't we doing it? Why have we consistently been well below the 85 limit for some time now? I mean, if it's okay to sign 32 each year and cull what you don't want/need....why are we still not at the 85 max?
My assumption is that some AD's would find this approach morally reprehensible or they figure that the NCAA is going to stop it anyway. I can't figure it either but I suspect the NCAA will address it --eventually. Like when either Saban or Emmert retire.
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That goes back to the real question I was trying to pose in my post above. If it's not illegal, why aren't we doing it? Why have we consistently been well below the 85 limit for some time now? I mean, if it's okay to sign 32 each year and cull what you don't want/need....why are we still not at the 85 max?
I find it morally reprehensible as well, and I for one am happy we're not doing this. I think it's fucked up to swipe a kid's education out from under them if it's unwarranted just to push the limits of an obvious loophole.
That being said, I do wish we would put in a stronger effort to get as close to the 85 max as possible with JUCOs, early enrollees, etc. to get back to a normal healthy roster size...
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I find it morally reprehensible as well, and I for one am happy we're not doing this. I think it's fudgeed up to swipe a kid's education out from under them if it's unwarranted just to push the limits of an obvious loophole.
That being said, I do wish we would put in a stronger effort to get as close to the 85 max as possible with JUCOs, early enrollees, etc. to get back to a normal healthy roster size...
it's a medical scholarship. Most schollys WERE 1 yr renewable till recently. In other words, kid doesn't lose the free ride.
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Does the NCAA have a medical review board to approve Medical Scholarships? Or, is it within their authority to question such actions?
15.5.1.3 Counter Who Becomes Injured or Ill. A counter who becomes injured or ill to the point that he or she apparently never again will be able to participate in intercollegiate athletics shall not be considered a counter beginning with the academic year following the incapacitating injury or illness.
15.5.1.3.1 Incapacitating Injury or Illness. If an incapacitating injury or illness occurs prior to a prospective student-athlete’s or a student-athlete’s participation in athletically related activities and
results in the student-athlete’s inability to compete ever again, the student-athlete shall not be counted within the institution’s maximum financial aid award limitations for the current, as well as later academic years.
This raises a lot of questions. Let's take Alabama and Nick Saban's name off of this and just talk about the issue -- this is not a hit piece on Alabama or Nick Saban and this topic can be discussed without focusing in on the particulars of the Alabama case in the WSJ. Here are some general questions for discussion.
1. How do we reform the Medical Hardship Scholarship process and ensure that kids are not being pushed into taking one because a coach is oversigned and needs to make space in the roster?
2. If a student-athlete is given an inducement to take a medical hardship scholarship, such as season tickets in Mr. Kirschman's case, is it a violation of either the written NCAA by-laws or the spirit of the by-laws? You can't give a kid season tickets to commit to come to a school on a football scholarship, why should you be able to give him season tickets to leave, or any inducement for that matter?
3. How do you feel about coaches trying to make college football more like the NFL?
4. At what point does college football become so much like the NFL that players have to start being paid? It appears in some places they are already dealing with annual roster cuts, being placed on an IR list, and essentially drafted and placed in farm systems...all we need is a player's union, free agency, and to have the players quit going to classes and we'll have a mini NFL.
We ask these questions because we see the direction all of this is heading with the oversigning, roster cuts, medical hardships, pay-for-play, etc., and if you love college football like we do all of this is headed in the wrong direction.
http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2011/02/27/quick-thoughts-on-medical-hardship-scholarships/
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I will reiterate my position on this year's class....
After 3-4 guys in this class don't qualify, 1-2 greyshirt (I know one kid said in an interview that he knew months ago that he would greyshirt because of a knee injury), and I think two are backsigned, you're only talking 4-6 guys. Alabama wasn't at 85 in 2012. I don't think that 4-6 guys leaving after the season is unusual.
The past two years Alabama has been 1-2 scholarships under the limit each year. In 2008 Saban awarded 3 scholarships to walk-ons. In 2011 he awarded 2 scholarships to walk-ons. Last year Carson Tinker was awarded a scholarship, and was kept on scholarship this season as well. There are probably others that have been awarded that I just can't think of off the top of my head. While Saban is no saint, and I'm not saying he deserves a pat on the back for awarding scholarships to walk-ons, I'm just saying that I think the "article" posted is somewhat inaccurate.
Add in the fact that the 3 dumbasses that are currently banned from campus for robbing that student won't be back, and I really think it is a non-issue this year.
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I will reiterate my position on this year's class....
Add in the fact that the 3 dumbasses that are currently banned from campus for robbing that student won't be back, and I really think it is a non-issue this year.
Somewhere a goat is lonely...
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Can someone pleeze to splain' dee rules on signing? The only thing I'm certain of is you can only have 85 scholarship players on your roster. That's it! After that, I don't have a clue what the actual rules are. Am I wrong in thinking that 25 is the limit you can sign in any one class? I know I've heard and read that many times. Wasn't that limit implemented after Houston Testicle signed 173 a few years ago? What allows you to sign more than the 25 (Or whatever the number is) in a class? Graduations? Transfers? Kicked off? Academic casualties? JUCO? Lord Saybinz?
Just asking because I KNOW there are specific rules in place, yet you see multiple teams every year signing 30+ and in this case, if these numbers are correct, having more scholly players on the roster than the rules allow.
If you're in the SEC, you can't sign more than 25. Alabama only signed 25, and for that matter, I think 2 will count back to last year.
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Somewhere a goat is lonely...
Not while I'm around.
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If you're in the SEC, you can't sign more than 25. Alabama only signed 25, and for that matter, I think 2 will count back to last year.
You can sign more than 25, as long as you signed less than 25 the previous year. The unused spots are available for early enrollees only, however.
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You can sign more than 25, as long as you signed less than 25 the previous year. The unused spots are available for early enrollees only, however.
I didn't know that was in there, but it certainly makes sense.
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You can sign more than 25, as long as you signed less than 25 the previous year. The unused spots are available for early enrollees only, however.
Good info. Did not know that. Feed me more.
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Good info. Did not know that. Feed me more.
There is a certain cliental on cruise ships that can help you with that.
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If you're in the SEC, you can't sign more than 25. Alabama only signed 25, and for that matter, I think 2 will count back to last year.
I remember the 25 limit the commissioner imposed a few yrs ago but it's still incredibly confusing to me. I think what noxin said was right about the ee's and making up for last yr. etc. Still, this yr we have a&m with 31 (IIRC), UF 29, Thuga 32, Ole Piss 26 and Vandy 26. This is verbal committments. Bottom line, all I think that I certainly know for certain, sometimes, maybe is that there is still a limit of 85.
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You can sign more than 25, as long as you signed less than 25 the previous year. The unused spots are available for early enrollees only, however.
The rules, as I understand them, per the NCAA...the only one's that really count...
"Sign" is a word that has different meanings to different people.
85 on Scholarship max. No more. Medical Scholarships don't count.
25, max, may enroll in the fall on scholarship. No more, whether you're at 85 or not. If you have less than 25 spots to fill the 85, then you can't even enroll 25, only the number to get you to 85...unless...read below.
After that, the math gets really fuzzy, and depends on who is counting, what drugs they are on, what agenda they have, etc. JC Early Enrollees can count back to the previous year, IF there are slots available in the 25. Grayshirts? I have no idea how they count. The NCAA likely doesn't either.
Per NCAA bylaws, you can accept an unlimited number of LOI's on or after NSD, but in the fall only 25 may enroll on football scholarship, max, unless a lesser number puts the total on scholarship at 85. I have no idea how long you have to process players if you exceed 85, but I'm sure there's a grace period to "cut down the roster". Or it may just be that you have to be at 85 total, by the time the fall camp starts. Seems Nick's processing all takes place between NSD and fall camp.
As I understood it, the SEC capped the number of "LOI's" that can be accepted on NSD at 28 a couple of years ago...may have been 25. As far as I can tell, nobody is abiding by either cap number, nor is the SEC holding them to it.
As far as I can tell, only 2 numbers have any real meaning. 25 is the MAXIMUM number of recruits that may enroll in a school year on football scholarship (most times this means in the fall, but can be accounted for by counting JCs that enroll early prior to the next school year cycle if 25 didn't enroll in the fall). And, 85 is the max you may carry on football scholarship, though I don't know when that counts is made. My guess is, that let's just say you had 85 on scholarship in February, all returning, and you got 25 LOI's. You could take in all 25, but by fall camp, or the beginning of the school year, you'd have to process 25 of the returning players by either converting them to medical scholarship, or by not renewing their scholarship for whatever reason.
Saban has figured out the way da Bahr used to do it by stockpiling players either by using loopholes in the rules, or being so knowledgeable of them, he knows how to get around the rules that are in place.
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Guys, if you don't get it now, you won't ever get it. It's Alabama math, and it's approved by the NCAA.
Any number of significance, you multiply it by four. Number of recruits allowed? 138 and three-eighths. Number of championships? 82.3111, repeating, of course.
My math on that is shaky, so you may want to check with Chizad.
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Guys, if you don't get it now, you won't ever get it. It's Alabama math, and it's approved by the NCAA.
Any number of significance, you multiply it by four. Number of recruits allowed? 138 and three-eighths. Number of championships? 82.3111, repeating, of course.
My math on that is shaky, so you may want to check with Chizad.
Or 67% inflated...