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The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: Tiger Wench on August 29, 2012, 10:11:56 PM
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This nauseates me more than anything this man has done in the three + years he has been in office. I am sick. Say what you will about the man as President, but George W. Bush handwrote every note to every family that lost a soldier. Obama is obviously too busy to even personally sign a fucking form letter - click through to see the photographs. He does not deserve another four years as dogcatcher, much less Commander In Chief. What a total piece of shit.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/obama-honored-fallen-seals-by-sending-their-parents-a-form-letter-signed-by-electric-pen/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/obama-honored-fallen-seals-by-sending-their-parents-a-form-letter-signed-by-electric-pen/)
On August 6, 2011, 30 US service members were killed when a CH-47 Chinook helicopter they were being transported in crashed in Wardak province, Afghanistan. It was the deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan. 17 members of the elite Navy SEALs were killed in the crash.
Yesterday, Karen and Billy Vaughn, parents of Aaron Carson Vaughn, spoke at the Defending the Defenders forum sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots outside the RNC Convention in Tampa. Karen brought a copy of the form letter they were sent following their son’s death.
It’s a form letter.
It was signed by an electric pen.
That’s not all.
Karen Vaughn reached out to the parents of the other SEALs killed in that crash. Their letters were all the same.
Form letters – signed by an electric pen.
Here’s a closer look at the letter sent to the parents of Chief Petty Officer Nicholas H. Null.
It’s the same form letter.
After the deadliest single loss of US forces in Afghanistan, Barack Obama sent out form letters to the parents.
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I'm fucking speechless. Just fucking speechless.
This man doesn't deserve to be called "Commander in Chief."
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Wasn't that the same SEAL team that took out Bin Laden?
(http://goatlocker.org/pics/null.jpg)
Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician Chief Petty Officer (Explosive Ordnance Disposal Warfare Specialist/Freefall Parachutist/Diver) Nicholas H. Null, 30, of Washington, W.Va
http://goatlocker.org/resources/cpo/lineofduty.htm
All members of seal team 6.
.,
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Same unit, but none of the SEALs who died participated in the Bin Laden raid.
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Thanks Brother.
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This man doesn't deserve to be called "Commander in Chief."
When did he ever?
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When did he ever?
Good point.
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Let's take a step back for a second.
President Obama has been "signing" condolence letters for more than three years. These particular letters were written nearly a year ago. Yet this comes up now, conveniently close to an election.
This story is being published for political purposes, not for the benefit of the families of deceased soldiers. What's worse is that the first response we have to this politically charged article is not, "How sad for the soldiers' families." Rather, the first response we have is, "Obama: Piece of Shit."
Scoring political points by using dead soldiers = not cool.
But if you really want to angrily charge forward and turn the death of soldiers into a political pissing contest, let's remember history accurately and not act like this is the first time something like this has ever happened. For instance, let's not forget the fact that Donald Rumsfeld got called out (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rumsfeld_to_personally_sign_condolence_letters/) for not signing condolence letters personally. Let's not forget that, since the Clinton administration, condolence letters were not sent to families of military members who committed suicide or died stateside in training accidents, until Obama changed that policy (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-06/us/military.suicide.condolences_1_condolence-letters-suicide-rates-military-families?_s=PM:US). Yet Bush wrote a letter to Tony Dungy (http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/presidential-condolences-and-troop-suicides/) after his son committed suicide, but couldn't do so for military members until called out. And no, Bush did not "handwrite" every condolence letter. If you believe that absurd claim, then just ask Michael Deutsch's father (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A34431-2004Mar29¬Found=true), who received two identical letters from Bush. But the signature was handwritten, so that puts him head and shoulders above Obama in the "I care about our military" department, right?
The White House has used form letters since Vietnam. They're created by staffers and may include a couple of personal facts about the soldier, but they are not written by the President except in special circumstances, and even then I seriously doubt they are penned by the President himself.
If you think the President should spend his time as the leader of an entire nation (not just the Commander in Chief) personally writing and signing thousands of letters to deceased soldiers' families, that's fine, but let's not hold one President to a standard that previous Presidents have not been required to meet. Let's not act like Obama has done something unspeakable that has never been done before.
Most importantly, let's not drag dead soldiers into the spotlight merely for the political gain of either party during an election.
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Let's take a step back for a second.
President Obama has been "signing" condolence letters for more than three years. These particular letters were written nearly a year ago. Yet this comes up now, conveniently close to an election.
This story is being published for political purposes, not for the benefit of the families of deceased soldiers. What's worse is that the first response we have to this politically charged article is not, "How sad for the soldiers' families." Rather, the first response we have is, "Obama: Piece of Shit."
Scoring political points by using dead soldiers = not cool.
But if you really want to angrily charge forward and turn the death of soldiers into a political pissing contest, let's remember history accurately and not act like this is the first time something like this has ever happened. For instance, let's not forget the fact that Donald Rumsfeld got called out (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/rumsfeld_to_personally_sign_condolence_letters/) for not signing condolence letters personally. Let's not forget that, since the Clinton administration, condolence letters were not sent to families of military members who committed suicide or died stateside in training accidents, until Obama changed that policy (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-06/us/military.suicide.condolences_1_condolence-letters-suicide-rates-military-families?_s=PM:US). Yet Bush wrote a letter to Tony Dungy (http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/presidential-condolences-and-troop-suicides/) after his son committed suicide, but couldn't do so for military members until called out. And no, Bush did not "handwrite" every condolence letter. If you believe that absurd claim, then just ask Michael Deutsch's father (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A34431-2004Mar29¬Found=true), who received two identical letters from Bush. But the signature was handwritten, so that puts him head and shoulders above Obama in the "I care about our military" department, right?
The White House has used form letters since Vietnam. They're created by staffers and may include a couple of personal facts about the soldier, but they are not written by the President except in special circumstances, and even then I seriously doubt they are penned by the President himself.
If you think the President should spend his time as the leader of an entire nation (not just the Commander in Chief) personally writing and signing thousands of letters to deceased soldiers' families, that's fine, but let's not hold one President to a standard that previous Presidents have not been required to meet. Let's not act like Obama has done something unspeakable that has never been done before.
Most importantly, let's not drag dead soldiers into the spotlight merely for the political gain of either party during an election.
Quit playing devils advocate for once and just call the man a piece of shit. Mmkkkkk? Thanks. Prayers sent. Post often.
But seriously, I am tiring of comparing everything back to Bush. Did he do this? Did he have screwups? Maybe, sure, absolutely. But Bush isn't running. I know of ONE who is.
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Vandy, you are a pedantic bore. Godfather should just fix it where every post you make over 30 words is instantly replaced with "TL; DR" so the rest of us can just quote that and save the trouble. You do know that you don't get billable hours for these novels, right?
Things like that should be shared, as testimony to a particular candidate's actions. And if not at election time, then when? A year ago so that it will be forgotten, old news by the time the election rolls around?
This man - and his wife - have had nothing but contempt for the military, the flag, and this country since day one. Inappropriate for a Commander In Chief. Even draft dodging Bill Clinton was more respectful.
Bush did personally sign every letter - form letter or not. And in certain instances, he wrote personal notes, and made personal visits with the families. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that in a case like the loss of a significant number of Navy Seals, as part of the "deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan", those families would have gotten personal notes from Bush. ESPECIALLY if that same elite fighting force had just made him look like Da Man for killing Bin Laden.
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Vandy, you are a pedantic bore. Godfather should just fix it where every post you make over 30 words is instantly replaced with "TL; DR" so the rest of us can just quote that and save the trouble. You do know that you don't get billable hours for these novels, right?
Things like that should be shared, as testimony to a particular candidate's actions. And if not at election time, then when? A year ago so that it will be forgotten, old news by the time the election rolls around?
This man - and his wife - have had nothing but contempt for the military, the flag, and this country since day one. Inappropriate for a Commander In Chief. Even draft dodging Bill Clinton was more respectful.
Bush did personally sign every letter - form letter or not. And in certain instances, he wrote personal notes, and made personal visits with the families. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that in a case like the loss of a significant number of Navy Seals, as part of the "deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan", those families would have gotten personal notes from Bush. ESPECIALLY if that same elite fighting force had just made him look like Da Man for killing Bin Laden.
And like I said - BUSH ISN'T RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT! The Pharoah IS! So yes, it's very relevant to bring up.
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Quit playing devils advocate for once and just call the man a piece of shit. Mmkkkkk? Thanks. Prayers sent. Post often.
But seriously, I am tiring of comparing everything back to Bush. Did he do this? Did he have screwups? Maybe, sure, absolutely. But Bush isn't running. I know of ONE who is.
I'm not playing devil's advocate; I'm pointing out the facts. This happened nearly a year ago, and has presumably been occurring for over three years, yet it gets brought up now. The people who brought this to the media's attention aren't doing it for the soldiers. They're doing it for the election.
Aside from that, I am not the one who compared Obama to Bush. TW was the one who parroted the absurd claim that Bush personally wrote all of the letters and that they weren't form letters. This frequently made claim is simply not true.
Additionally, the whole point of bringing up Bush, Rumsfeld, Clinton, etc. was not for comparison's sake; it was merely to show that the White House has been using form letters for decades.
I'm not defending Obama as if he's some holy figure that can't be attacked. I'm merely pointing out that if you're going to jump on his ass for doing something, at least get your facts straight and realize that this is something that's gone on long before him. How about we call the government as a whole, past and present, a piece of shit for instituting form letter policies decades ago, and not blame it on one guy who wasn't even President during Vietnam when the form letter tradition was instituted?
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Vandy, you are a pedantic bore. Godfather should just fix it where every post you make over 30 words is instantly replaced with "TL; DR" so the rest of us can just quote that and save the trouble. You do know that you don't get billable hours for these novels, right?
Look, this is a forum. A political forum at that. People tend to make replies on forums, and those replies don't always agree with your stance. Get over it.
If your busy schedule doesn't afford you the time to read a post that's more than five sentences long, that's your problem, not mine. This petty name calling shit is irrelevant and childish. You can just ignore my posts if it's that much of a burden for you. You do know that you're not getting paid to waste your precious time reading my massive 400 word novels, right?
Things like that should be shared, as testimony to a particular candidate's actions. And if not at election time, then when? A year ago so that it will be forgotten, old news by the time the election rolls around?
Share it all you want, I'm not arguing against that. But all I'm pointing out is that we should not act like this is some dramatic tragedy that has never before occurred. Form letters are old news. Yet, for the first time since Vietnam, this is now an issue that is worthy of deciding an election?
We might as well say that Obama shouldn't be re-elected because he appointed a judge to the Supreme Court. He's doing the same thing that Presidents before him have done, yet we're supposed to act like this is unprecedented and needs to be addressed now?
Bush did personally sign every letter - form letter or not. And in certain instances, he wrote personal notes, and made personal visits with the families. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that in a case like the loss of a significant number of Navy Seals, as part of the "deadliest single loss for U.S. forces in the decade-long war in Afghanistan", those families would have gotten personal notes from Bush. ESPECIALLY if that same elite fighting force had just made him look like Da Man for killing Bin Laden.
On the flip side of the coin, was Bush being disrespectful to some families by sending form letters, whereas other families he sent handwritten notes? Do lives which are lost in larger disasters deserve more attention than those lives lost in a small skirmish? The loss of a soldier's life is tragic no matter how they died; at least Obama's form letters show consistency and lack apparent favoritism.
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I'm not playing devil's advocate; I'm pointing out the facts. This happened nearly a year ago, and has presumably been occurring for over three years, yet it gets brought up now. The people who brought this to the media's attention aren't doing it for the soldiers. They're doing it for the election.
And in turn, helping get rid of the POS that does not support the soldiers. Therefore actually helping the soldiers. So I do not see your point about "not doing it for the soldiers."
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And in turn, helping get rid of the POS that does not support the soldiers. Therefore actually helping the soldiers. So I do not see your point about "not doing it for the soldiers."
I'll like it ^^^ :clap:
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I truly hate this whole idea of the Commander-in-Chief sending Form Letters to next of kin of deceased service members (deceased for whatever reason by the way). With all of the useless idiots that are on staff at the Executive Branch you'd think they could come up with a small group who could take care of letters like this to honor the war dead properly. And, regardless of party or person, I think it's the CiC's sacred duty to take the time to personally sign them; if he's sent them off to war for whatever reason this is the least that he can do to honor what they've done for their nation.
This thread reminded me of the supposed letter that Lincoln's private secretary, John Hay, wrote in 1864 to a Mrs. Bixby; of course, it has been said that Lincoln actually did sign it:
Executive Mansion, Washington, Nov. 21, 1864
Dear Madam,
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant-General of Massachusetts, that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle.
I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save.
I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours, to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of Freedom. Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln
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Yeah. Even the fucking war criminal did it.
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Yeah. Even the fucking war criminal did it.
:thumsup:
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Yeah. Even the fucking war criminal did it.
Was this while he was on break of running the Hurricane Machine?
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President Obama is still ours, regardless of how anyone feels about it. I try hard to show respect for the office and for his leadership. It isn't easy for me.
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President Obama is still ours, regardless of how anyone feels about it. I try hard to show respect for the office and for his leadership. It isn't easy for me.
Fuck him. And the horse he rode in -- and hopefully rides out -- on.
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Was this while he was on break of running the Hurricane Machine?
By "war criminal" I meant Lincoln.
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By "war criminal" I meant Lincoln.
That's who I thought you meant. When Jarhead mentioned Bush, I thought I missed the joke.
I mean, who can forget the wahhr of norrthun aggression?
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That's who I thought you meant. When Jarhead mentioned Bush, I thought I missed the joke.
I mean, who can forget the wahhr of norrthun aggression?
Well just put aside invading a sovereign nation for a moment and concentrate on him suspending habeas corpus for four plus years.
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Well just put aside invading a sovereign nation for a moment and concentrate on him suspending habeas corpus for four plus years.
Tenth Amendment hating bastuhd.
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President Obama is still ours, regardless of how anyone feels about it. I try hard to show respect for the office and for his leadership. It isn't easy for me.
I show respect for the office but the office-holder has earned little respect and as far as his leadership goes I have seen nothing; it's almost a complete dereliction of that sacred duty that was entrusted to him with the one possible exception of the decision that he made to take-down bid Laden.
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Dude is right. Shouldn't call him a piece of shit. It's offensive to feces.
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And in turn, helping get rid of the POS that does not support the soldiers. Therefore actually helping the soldiers. So I do not see your point about "not doing it for the soldiers."
My point was that the article was not released in an attempt to make the President change his practices. The article was released to change the President.
If this has been going on for three years, and yet it isn't brought to light until now, then soldiers for the past three years have been disrespected by the President, and their families have had to live with that. Had this been made an issue three years ago, maybe the policy would have changed and many deceased soldiers could have gotten the respect that they deserved.
But by holding onto this card until now, it is clear that no one was overly concerned with the fact that soldiers were disgraced. Rather, they only wanted to bring this to light once it had an effect on the election. Maybe getting a new President will indirectly rectify the situation, but it does so at the expense of those soldiers who had to endure the policy for three years. No one attempted to rectify the situation until it would be a benefit for their political party and a detriment to the opposing political party. This was made public at this point in time for selfish reasons.
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I just want him gone. Whatever the price.
For the record? Drunk drivers killed more people last year than if you combine the military deaths from Afghanistan and Iraq with the deaths from the 9-11 attacks.
So that's your real issue. Who's sending letters to those people?
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My point was that the article was not released in an attempt to make the President change his practices. The article was released to change the President.
If this has been going on for three years, and yet it isn't brought to light until now, then soldiers for the past three years have been disrespected by the President, and their families have had to live with that. Had this been made an issue three years ago, maybe the policy would have changed and many deceased soldiers could have gotten the respect that they deserved.
But by holding onto this card until now, it is clear that no one was overly concerned with the fact that soldiers were disgraced. Rather, they only wanted to bring this to light once it had an effect on the election. Maybe getting a new President will indirectly rectify the situation, but it does so at the expense of those soldiers who had to endure the policy for three years. No one attempted to rectify the situation until it would be a benefit for their political party and a detriment to the opposing political party. This was made public at this point in time for selfish reasons.
So was printing the photos of coffins containing Iraq war dead arriving at Dover Air Force Base in 2004 yet the leftist media (Seattle Times, NPR, etc.) had no issues releasing them for perceived political gain against the Bush administration in an election year. Sadly, regrettably, and disgustingly it's part of the political game. I remember being quite indignant about that at the time.
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So was printing the photos of coffins containing Iraq war dead arriving at Dover Air Force Base in 2004 yet the leftist media (Seattle Times, NPR, etc.) had no issues releasing them for perceived political gain against the Bush administration in an election year. Sadly, regrettably, and disgustingly it's part of the political game. I remember being quite indignant about that at the time.
This is what bothers me most. It has nothing to do with the fact that the right is attacking the left, or that the left is attacking the right. It has everything to do with the manner in which any politician (and the public) chooses to launch those attacks.
It's nothing new in politics or the media, but it's repugnant nonetheless.