Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: Kaos on June 10, 2013, 01:09:55 PM
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http://blog.al.com/tuscaloosa/2013/06/wallaces_daughter_speaks_about.html#incart_river_default
Why did daddy stand in the schoolhouse door? I really don't know.
How stupid can she be? I'm not nearly her age. I worked on Wallace's last campaign in 1982 before I could even vote. I had the opportunity to spend some time with him on a campaign swing through my county. We'd do the speech, get in the limo and drive to the next stop, five stops in all that took all day.
He was very old and very tired by that point, just a shell of the man he was in 1963. But he enjoyed talking about history, politics and his role in that with people who cared to listen. I did.
He told me then that his stance on segregation and integration was a response to his duty to the will of the people.
It's convenient to forget, but George Wallace wasn't standing up there by himself while the rest of the state booed him and threw fruit. He was standing there with the full backing of most of your grandfathers and grandmothers (or great grandfathers depending on your age).
His job was to protect the wishes of the people who voted him into office. He did.
Beyond that he told me that had he not been the one to stand there as the official representative of the people things could have gotten ugly.
The stand in the door was symbolic. He knew -- and he said this out of his own mouth -- that he wasn't going to prevent anyone from entering, all he was going to do was prevent anybody from getting killed in the process.
If he stood there, then the angry mob would let him do their talking and not resort to violence. It was a very tense situation and if he hadn't been there and done that YOUR grandfather or yours or yours or yours might have decided to do something. Maybe with a bat. Or a gun. And then what?
Yeah, he stuck with it too long probably. But he believed that people, voting people, had a right to make up their own minds without the interference of the federal government and that elected officials had a duty to express the will of their people.
I can't believe his daughter could possibly be so stupid and obtuse.
Frankly, we need a lot more George Wallaces and a lot fewer Barack Obamas. And that comment has nothing to do with race.
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But he believed that people, voting people, had a right to make up their own minds without the interference of the federal government and that elected officials had a duty to express the will of their people.
While I agree with your basic premise that the elected serve to express the will of the electorate, you can't just throw up the Ollie North defense when facing an issue that puts you squarely on the wrong side morally.
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He told me then that his stance on segregation and integration was a response to his duty to the will of the people.
It's convenient to forget, but George Wallace wasn't standing up there by himself while the rest of the state booed him and threw fruit. He was standing there with the full backing of most of your grandfathers and grandmothers (or great grandfathers depending on your age).
His job was to protect the wishes of the people who voted him into office. He did.
Our government isn't a pure democracy but rather a constitutional republic. His stand was only representative of his and his voting constituents' desire to oppress a particular minority at a public institution.
After all, the practical reason why, when the power is once in the hands of the people, a majority are permitted, and for a long period continue, to rule, is not because they are most likely to be in the right, nor because this seems fairest to the minority, but because they are physically the strongest. But a government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it. Can there not be a government in which majorities do not virtually decide right and wrong, but conscience? - Henry David Thoreau
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Pffffttt on both of you.
Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like.
So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT. Double pfffftttttt.
Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing.
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Pffffttt on both of you.
Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like.
So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT. Double pfffftttttt.
Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing.
How could that be construed as anything other than oppressing people?
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Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like.
Duly noted. Your views on the Great Depression, Civil War, Industrial Revolution and pretty much everything that pre-dates your birth are now officially null and void.
What a stupid thing to say.
So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people.
If they favored segregation, yes. Being in the majority or related to me doesn't absolve anyone from being immoral and taking a reprehensible stance.
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Pffffttt on both of you.
Ya didn't live it, don't know what it was like.
So everybody -- pretty much -- from my grandparents to yours and yours and yours were all "morally wrong" and consciously oppressing people.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT. Double pfffftttttt.
Had I been in Wallace's position I'd have done the same thing.
^^^This. He did what he had to do and I believe that he regretted having to do it. As you noted, he knew that it was symbolic. He was a masterful politician. And at the time, seperate but equal was NOT considered morally wrong or oppressive by most of the voters in this state. It was strongly supported. Years of reflection, propaganda and public relations can change a lot of views.
I personally know people who wish it were still like that. I can't wish that on anyone. I can't imagine having to eat in the back of a restaurant or sit in the back of the bus because of my race but some people will never change their view on that.
At the same time, my view is conflicted because I think that if a private establishment wants to only serve dyslexic, bipolar Mexicans--they should have the right to do so. And let the free-market take care of that. But, that's not something that the free market can readily solve.
And what happened to the spell checker?
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At the same time, my view is conflicted because I think that if a private establishment wants to only serve dyslexic, bipolar Mexicans--they should have the right to do so. And let the free-market take care of that. But, that's not something that the free market can readily solve.
Was the University of Alabama a private establishment at the time?
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Was the University of Alabama a private establishment at the time?
To my head, it's always been public. But I gots the googles if you would like me to check.
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To my head, it's always been public. But I gots the googles if you would like me to check.
Pretty sure that was rhetorical. Your "conflict" about a restaurateurs' obligation to serve all takers is a red-herring in a discussion about state-sponsored segregation.
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Pretty sure that was rhetorical. Your "conflict" about a restaurateurs' obligation to serve all takers is a red-herring in a discussion about state-sponsored segregation.
I don't think red-herrings are allowed on here and I know he was pointing to that. Anyway, I don't see it as that. The attitude is the same whether it's public or private.
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Duly noted. Your views on the Great Depression, Civil War, Industrial Revolution and pretty much everything that pre-dates your birth are now officially null and void.
What a stupid thing to say.
If they favored segregation, yes. Being in the majority or related to me doesn't absolve anyone from being immoral and taking a reprehensible stance.
This X 10,000. Obama supporters shall not be absolved for their inequities !
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Frankly, we need a lot more George Wallaces and a lot fewer Barack Obamas. And that comment has nothing to do with race.
I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.
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I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.
I'm a Guy Hunt man meself. I think that vaccum cleaner sales experience is more pertinent in public service than being a community orgainizer.
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I'd prefer more Albert Brewers.
First political candidate I remember seeing. Brewer got screwed over pretty much.
It's really easy to sit back today and throw stones at the "morally reprehensible" people of a different age. When people look back on us 50 years from now they'll laugh at some of the "morally reprehensible" and short-sighted and corrupt things we did. Your grandchildren will scorn the "morally reprehensible" positions you and your family took -- because that's the way things are today and we accept it without a second thought.
Bullcrap like The Help and Roots and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter color the way people of today view events of the past. The entire South was full of red-faced, bacca chawin', white shirt wearing country gumps who went to Klan rallies on the weekend, treated their black help like second class citizens and if they got uppity, why they just whooped 'em.
Pffffffffffftttttttttttt
Garbage.
Most southern whites didn't own slaves. Slaves were expensive. In today's dollar a slave was roughly equivalent to a Mercedes. How many people you see beating their cars with chains if it doesn't run right?
From TV, who was the biggest racist you can remember? Archie Bunker. Where'd he live again?
As far as my views of the Depression, Civil War, Ancient Rome or the forays of Ghengis Khan yes, they would pale in comparison to those of someone who experienced that era.
It's a little like Bo Jackson. You may have seen him on film and recognize his greatness, but unless you lived through the nine dark years before he arrived at Auburn and were in some of the stadiums when he ran over, through and around entire defenses you cannot fully appreciate just what he meant to Auburn and what a jaw-dropping athlete he was.
I never saw Jim Thorpe or Red Grange. I'm sure they were amazing athletes. I SAW Bo. I saw him with my own eyes. There are kids today for whom Bo is nothing more than a Grange or Thorpe. The want to compare him to Mark Ingram or some lackluster toad like that. Because they don't know. They didn't see.
I saw.
I'm not that old and I saw what things were like. I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater. I saw people get along for the most part. I saw the generational change where people who were 15-20 years older than me decided that the old ways weren't going to work for them. And they bucked the system. The minority did. The majority was used to the way things were.
Who was Rosa Parks? Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no. Go check out her own museum. She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.
You seriously think people are better off today? Back then families cared for families (not like it was on garbage like The Help). Now? So many of those people who were employed by families are wards of the government, living in government homes and drawing government checks.
An entire society dependent on benevolent government handouts has been created where just a generation ago most people earned their own keep.
But it's better now, right? Because you watched The Help and Minnie ain't got to make no mo' doo doo pies.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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Who was Rosa Parks? Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no. Go check out her own museum. She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBQWq7KcI5s
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First political candidate I remember seeing. Brewer got screwed over pretty much.
It's really easy to sit back today and throw stones at the "morally reprehensible" people of a different age. When people look back on us 50 years from now they'll laugh at some of the "morally reprehensible" and short-sighted and corrupt things we did. Your grandchildren will scorn the "morally reprehensible" positions you and your family took -- because that's the way things are today and we accept it without a second thought.
Bullcrap like The Help and Roots and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter color the way people of today view events of the past. The entire South was full of red-faced, bacca chawin', white shirt wearing country gumps who went to Klan rallies on the weekend, treated their black help like second class citizens and if they got uppity, why they just whooped 'em.
Pffffffffffftttttttttttt
Garbage.
Most southern whites didn't own slaves. Slaves were expensive. In today's dollar a slave was roughly equivalent to a Mercedes. How many people you see beating their cars with chains if it doesn't run right?
From TV, who was the biggest racist you can remember? Archie Bunker. Where'd he live again?
As far as my views of the Depression, Civil War, Ancient Rome or the forays of Ghengis Khan yes, they would pale in comparison to those of someone who experienced that era.
It's a little like Bo Jackson. You may have seen him on film and recognize his greatness, but unless you lived through the nine dark years before he arrived at Auburn and were in some of the stadiums when he ran over, through and around entire defenses you cannot fully appreciate just what he meant to Auburn and what a jaw-dropping athlete he was.
I never saw Jim Thorpe or Red Grange. I'm sure they were amazing athletes. I SAW Bo. I saw him with my own eyes. There are kids today for whom Bo is nothing more than a Grange or Thorpe. The want to compare him to Mark Ingram or some lackluster toad like that. Because they don't know. They didn't see.
I saw.
I'm not that old and I saw what things were like. I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater. I saw people get along for the most part. I saw the generational change where people who were 15-20 years older than me decided that the old ways weren't going to work for them. And they bucked the system. The minority did. The majority was used to the way things were.
Who was Rosa Parks? Was she just some tired old grandmother who needed to rest her feet? Heck no. Go check out her own museum. She was a communist agitator who trained in New York/New Jersey for months while they planned the revolution.
You seriously think people are better off today? Back then families cared for families (not like it was on garbage like The Help). Now? So many of those people who were employed by families are wards of the government, living in government homes and drawing government checks.
An entire society dependent on benevolent government handouts has been created where just a generation ago most people earned their own keep.
But it's better now, right? Because you watched The Help and Minnie ain't got to make no mo' doo doo pies.
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Those who have been erroneously educated by a librul government have no idea of how the times went.
Poor old George. He felt so guilty of his acts that as soon as he got a chance, he made Alabama one of the biggest minority friendly states in the union.
Anybody who looks at him and still only thinks of his stance in the doorway is a fool. There was so much more.
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19830209&id=KbslAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EfMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1030,2531533
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http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2206&dat=19830209&id=KbslAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EfMFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1030,2531533
Absolute unmitigated horse manure and the beginnings of the posthumous deification of Bryant.
That's the biggest load of cow dung I've ever read. Completely and totally false, a revision of history intended to speed Bryant on the way to saintdom.
If an elk crapped on a piece of paper it would have more truth and meaning than that.
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I've seen segregated water fountains, I've seen separate sections in the theater. I saw people get along for the most part...
You seriously think people are better off today?
Judas...there is no way to discuss this with you. Really?
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Judas...there is no way to discuss this with you. Really?
No. Not when you take two completely different concepts, cut out the entire middle and mash them together as if one is the answer to the other.
Society. Is society better off?
About 5% of the country is on government assistance. Of that 5% nearly half have been on it at least two years and 20% more than five.
Lyndon Johnson's idiot ass declared a "war on poverty" in 1964 that dovetailed with the Civil Rights movement.
In 1964 the "poverty rate" was 18% and steadily declining.
Introduce government assistance.
Today the "poverty rate" is 16% and steadily climbing.
Obama increased federal welfare spending by 41% since he took office. To what effect? More and more people swearing fealty to the government instead of finding the way out.
I don't believe in forced anything. I don't believe the government has the right to tell me to whom I can rent my house. If I elect not to rent it to Muslims, lesbians or vegetarians that should be my prerogative. It's MY house, I bought it.
If I buy the land to start a golf club and think I can survive economically by limiting membership to Auburn fans then that should be my right. I shouldn't be forced or shamed into allowing LSU fans to play there if I don't want them.
Should we go back to segregation? I don't know. If you leave people alone and don't force them to do things that's what will naturally occur for the most part. It's what people choose when given the choice without fear. People tend go gather on the basis of similar likes and dislikes, similar cultural references, similar religious practices and similar economic standing -- when left to their own devices.
I don't like artificially jamming round pegs in square holes because the benevolent government thinks its best for me.
I don't like an entire layer of society feeding from the government teat and being herded along like sheep. At some point, and maybe it won't be in our lifetime somebody like Obama is going to decide that he's too important to follow the two-term rule. When that happens there will be enough hogs slopping at the government trough that the opposition will be trampled. And then it will all come crashing down.
I think this country is going to hell in a hurry and those who are driving that hell-bound train do so on the tracks of class warfare -- which in this country is best identified by race.
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So what you are saying is that if George Wallace hadn't stood in that doorway, riots and murder would have probably broke out all over UAT's campus and the angry mob might of burnt that shithole to the ground???
FUCK GEORGE WALLACE!!
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So what you are saying is that if George Wallace hadn't stood in that doorway, riots and murder would have probably broke out all over UAT's campus and the angry mob might of burnt that shoothole to the ground???
fudge GEORGE WALLACE!!
Point taken.
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I have the solution that everyone can accept:
(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/culture_test/pres16.jpg)
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Yeah. After two terms of this.
(http://fl2.shopmania.org/files/p/us/m/443/1972-george-wallace-presidential-election-campaign-button~6801443.jpg)
(http://www.esnarf.com/4030.jpg)
I have both of these in my personal collection.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJrqsOh9Hno
He's not wrong.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00E-MoGAm5g
Good point made that I forgot. Wallace ran as a moderate in 1958. Endorsed by the NAACP. Lost to a klansman Patterson. Had to do what he had to do.
How could he govern if he could not get elected? He followed the will of the people.
95% of what he did was positive.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJrqsOh9Hno
He's not wrong.
I forgot what an eloquent speaker he was.
I wonder how he would fare in today's politics.
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I forgot what an eloquent speaker he was.
I wonder how he would fare in today's politics.
I know nobody here will bother, but the Larry King interview (44 minutes) is really good.
It shows you how idiotic and stupid Jesse Jackson really is. And you hear the things Wallace said in 1968 that illustrate what he was really about.
We need a George Wallace today. One of him and 100000 less Obamas, Jesses, Pelosis and their ilk.
I can tell you without hesitation or trepidation that if George Wallace rose from the grave today not only would I vote for him for President, but I would dedicate as much of my financial and personal support as I could to do my part to get him elected. I'd take a two-year leave of absence from my job to work for and with him and consider it an honor.
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I know nobody here will bother, but the Larry King interview (44 minutes) is really good.
It shows you how idiotic and stupid Jesse Jackson really is. And you hear the things Wallace said in 1968 that illustrate what he was really about.
We need a George Wallace today. One of him and 100000 less Obamas, Jesses, Pelosis and their ilk.
I can tell you without hesitation or trepidation that if George Wallace rose from the grave today not only would I vote for him for President, but I would dedicate as much of my financial and personal support as I could to do my part to get him elected. I'd take a two-year leave of absence from my job to work for and with him and consider it an honor.
I feel this way too. GW is one of my heroes. Jr. is a great guy too. I believe that the people who call Gov. Wallace a racist do not know the whole story. The loss to Patterson explains a lot of that story. He was a masterful politician. He did what he had to do in order to be elected. He made admitted mistakes and asked for forgiveness. A great leader and a great man.
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Hell I haven't seen this much George Wallace love since the last Klan rally I attended. :awesome:
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Judas...there is no way to discuss this with you. Really?
I hope you will at least be consistent and put Obama, Farakhan, Malcolm X, LBJ and any other person who intended to separate in the same pot as you do Wallace. Ammarite?
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I hope you will at least be consistent and put Obama, Farakhan, Malcolm X, LBJ and any other person who intended to separate in the same pot as you do Wallace. Ammarite?
I'll give you Farrakhan and X...but you'll have to flesh out those others a bit.
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I'll give you Farrakhan and X...but you'll have to flesh out those others a bit.
I say Obama and LBJ because of affirmative action and wealth redistribution. That's essentially reverse discrimination and I definitely think theres an argument there. But yeah Farakhan and X spent their lives preaching supremacy and separatism.
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I say Obama and LBJ because of affirmative action
If anything, that's the exact opposite of segregation. It's a program designed to ameliorate the effects of a history of segregationist/discriminatory behavior.
"Wealth Redistribution" you're going to have to expound on further before I can respond.
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If anything, that's the exact opposite of segregation. It's a program designed to ameliorate the effects of a history of segregationist/discriminatory behavior.
"Wealth Redistribution" you're going to have to expound on further before I can respond.
Sure it is, which created more discrimination in the process of trying to put spilled milk back into the glass.
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Sure it is, which created more discrimination in the process of trying to put spilled milk back into the glass.
It's a difference in intent. Pre-AA, the intent was exclusion/cronyism. Post-AA, the intent is to open up opportunities where previously there were none.
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It's a difference in intent. Pre-AA, the intent was exclusion/cronyism. Post-AA, the intent is to open up opportunities where previously there were none.
I don't dispute the intent. But the reality is that it's simply more discrimination, imo.
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I don't dispute the intent. But the reality is that it's simply more discrimination, imo.
Sure, but discrimination isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a word that comes with a lot of baggage, unfortunately.
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Sure, but discrimination isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a word that comes with a lot of baggage, unfortunately.
Discrimination is a fact of life. And I agree it's not always bad. Discriminating taste is considered a good thing in wine, music, fashion, etc. The term gets a bad rap.
Personally, I think most of us (as in humans) discriminate against classes and races--whether it's intentional or not. Racism is a different animal that gets lumped in with discrimination.
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Discrimination is a fact of life. And I agree it's not always bad. Discriminating taste is considered a good thing in wine, music, fashion, etc. The term gets a bad rap.
Personally, I think most of us (as in humans) discriminate against classes and races--whether it's intentional or not. Racism is a different animal that gets lumped in with discrimination.
Agreed.
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It's a difference in intent. Pre-AA, the intent was exclusion/cronyism. Post-AA, the intent is to open up opportunities where previously there were none.
The pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction is still too far. It's cliche but 2 wrongs dont make a right. AA gives preferential treatment based off race/gender which essentially puts those who don't qualify to participant in AA in a hole and discrimination occurs in the reverse directions. I've known personally of a few cases where a black woman got a job over a more qualified white male simply because of AA/quotas/EOE. In that case, the white male was discriminated against because the decision and reason he didn't get said job was purely based off race and or gender.
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The pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction is still too far. It's cliche but 2 wrongs dont make a right. AA gives preferential treatment based off race/gender which essentially puts those who don't qualify to participant in AA in a hole and discrimination occurs in the reverse directions. I've known personally of a few cases where a black woman got a job over a more qualified white male simply because of AA/quotas/EOE. In that case, the white male was discriminated against because the decision and reason he didn't get said job was purely based off race and or gender.
Sure, in isolated, anecdotal incidents it can have a perceived negative effect. Taking a larger view, though, your white males have many other opportunities of which to avail themselves that the black female does not. That's the whole point.
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Sure, in isolated, anecdotal incidents it can have a perceived negative effect. Taking a larger view, though, your white males have many other opportunities of which to avail themselves that the black female does not. That's the whole point.
Black females have a better shot at fucking Tarheel than I do.
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Black females have a better shot at fucking Tarheel than I do.
We bonded at the Mardi Gras over our love of the Nubian princesses.
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We bonded at the Mardi Gras over our love of the Nubian princesses.
The love that dare not speak it's name was giving Tarheel a friction rash.
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Sure, in isolated, anecdotal incidents it can have a perceived negative effect. Taking a larger view, though, your white males have many other opportunities of which to avail themselves that the black female does not. That's the whole point.
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I expect as much from the guy who actually pondered the merits of re-introducing segregation.
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I expect as much from the guy who actually pondered the merits of re-introducing segregation.
So that's what I did.
I thought I said leave people to their own devices and don't artificially force situations to create some egghead's view of a perfect utopian society. I thought I said let people decide who they want to work with, associate with, sell to, buy from and worship with. I thought I said stop drawing convoluted districts to make sure that racial balance is maintained. Less government intervention. More freedom of choice. What happens will happen.
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So that's what I did.
I thought I said ...
No, what you said was:
Should we go back to segregation? I don't know.
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No, what you said was:
I said "I don't know."
That's not advocacy.
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I said "I don't know."
That's not advocacy.
Fuck's sake you're obtuse. I didn't accuse you of "advocating".
actually pondered the merits of re-introducing segregation.
To weigh, measure, consider...
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fudge's sake you're obtuse. I didn't accuse you of "advocating".
To weigh, measure, consider...
I was arrested for pondering one time. This isn't at all what it means.
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Kaos, why are you in love with this Democrat?
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Fuck's sake you're obtuse. I didn't accuse you of "advocating".
To weigh, measure, consider...
No need to get personal and talk about the guy's weight problem.
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fudge's sake you're obtuse. I didn't accuse you of "advocating".
To weigh, measure, consider...
I ponder many things. I consider pondering one of life's most important activities.
Always consider alternative scenarios. And then decide.
As for segregation? Don't agree with anything forced no matter which way it goes. Forced segregation is just as bad as forced integration in my opinion.
Has our country's academic standard improved since integration? Have employment opportunities changed all that much? What's the benefit of forced integration? Is the country club a "better" place since it was forced to accept blacks, women, asians and lesbians? Is the country stronger because the military must allow women, gays and religious zealots from the other side to join the fighting ranks?
Just questions.
Was forced integration the solution? Nope. Schools are worse off. Communities are worse off. The idea that the brightest and best from both sectors would inspire others became a farce. The lower crabs pull the higher achieving ones back into the bucket.
You CANNOT legislate tolerance, acceptance or any of those higher ideals that eggheads (who typically have very little knowledge of real world applications) dream up when creating the perfect society in their minds.
Here's an example for you. One of my daughter's friends has parents who came here 15 years ago from Bangladesh. The dad came here with a college degree, went back and completed an engineering degree in Boston and has been working for the same company as an engineer for the last eight or nine years. They are quasi Muslims. He drinks the occasional beer, cusses and doesn't pray five times a day. They do observe other customs like not eating certain kinds of foods (difficult for spend the night hot dog and hamburger parties), not having pets, etc. But other than a few quirks they're decent people and enjoyable company.
They live in a small, mostly white middle classish neighborhood across the bay from Mobile. The neighbor across the street is a state trooper. He collects Glocks. He erected a flagpole in his front yard from which he flies the American flag and underneath it a "Never Forget 9/11" banner. His kids, typically shirtless and shoeless scream slurs across the street at this family. He's been known to stand in his yard "cleaning his gun" while glaring across the street.
The rest of the neighborhood ignores them. Kids aren't allowed to play with theirs.
They have to drive an hour to shop at a store that stocks food items that they can use.
Is that the American dream?
They are looking to move. To move to a neighborhood that has more Muslim families and that is closer to stores that cater to their personal needs.
Segregation? What would you call it?
The idiot redneck across the street would be more comfortable with a white trash family like his own living across the street. The muslim family would be happier living near other families that share their beliefs, customs and traditions. It's the natural way of things.
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No need to get personal and talk about the guy's weight problem.
Yeah, and he called him obtuse. Like a triangle. Who's ever seen a fat guy shaped like a triangle?
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Kaos, why are you in love with this Democrat?
He'd be a Republican today.
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As for segregation? Don't agree with anything forced no matter which way it goes. Forced segregation is just as bad as forced integration in my opinion.
Was forced integration the solution? Nope. Schools are worse off. Communities are worse off. The idea that the brightest and best from both sectors would inspire others became a farce. The lower crabs pull the higher achieving ones back into the bucket.
Forced integration in the way that it was implemented in this country is THE single reason why our education system is failing in America today.
Not only that, but it was the plan of the left to eventually make every child a compliant government drone all equal. If you do not believe that, then you are the perfect example of what they are trying to create. Have a child that is outside the norm, either above or below, and see how that works out for you. If yu are not on top of it 24/7, they will eventually strive to move each child to a position of equality. Mainstream takes less work.
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I ponder many things. I consider pondering one of life's most important activities.
Always consider alternative scenarios. And then decide.
As for segregation? Don't agree with anything forced no matter which way it goes. Forced segregation is just as bad as forced integration in my opinion.
Has our country's academic standard improved since integration? Have employment opportunities changed all that much? What's the benefit of forced integration? Is the country club a "better" place since it was forced to accept blacks, women, asians and lesbians? Is the country stronger because the military must allow women, gays and religious zealots from the other side to join the fighting ranks?
Just questions.
Was forced integration the solution? Nope. Schools are worse off. Communities are worse off. The idea that the brightest and best from both sectors would inspire others became a farce. The lower crabs pull the higher achieving ones back into the bucket.
You CANNOT legislate tolerance, acceptance or any of those higher ideals that eggheads (who typically have very little knowledge of real world applications) dream up when creating the perfect society in their minds.
Here's an example for you. One of my daughter's friends has parents who came here 15 years ago from Bangladesh. The dad came here with a college degree, went back and completed an engineering degree in Boston and has been working for the same company as an engineer for the last eight or nine years. They are quasi Muslims. He drinks the occasional beer, cusses and doesn't pray five times a day. They do observe other customs like not eating certain kinds of foods (difficult for spend the night hot dog and hamburger parties), not having pets, etc. But other than a few quirks they're decent people and enjoyable company.
They live in a small, mostly white middle classish neighborhood across the bay from Mobile. The neighbor across the street is a state trooper. He collects Glocks. He erected a flagpole in his front yard from which he flies the American flag and underneath it a "Never Forget 9/11" banner. His kids, typically shirtless and shoeless scream slurs across the street at this family. He's been known to stand in his yard "cleaning his gun" while glaring across the street.
The rest of the neighborhood ignores them. Kids aren't allowed to play with theirs.
They have to drive an hour to shop at a store that stocks food items that they can use.
Is that the American dream?
They are looking to move. To move to a neighborhood that has more Muslim families and that is closer to stores that cater to their personal needs.
Segregation? What would you call it?
The idiot redneck across the street would be more comfortable with a white trash family like his own living across the street. The muslim family would be happier living near other families that share their beliefs, customs and traditions. It's the natural way of things.
tl;don't care
If your pondering of the segregation issue leaves you with "I don't know" as your answer, then the rest of this is just self-serving blather.
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tl;don't care
If your pondering of the segregation issue leaves you with "I don't know" as your answer, then the rest of this is just self-serving blather.
Forced anything is not the answer.
I don't know is the only appropriate response.
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Forced integration in the way that it was implemented in this country is THE single reason why our education system is failing in America today.
Not only that, but it was the plan of the left to eventually make every child a compliant government drone all equal. If you do not believe that, then you are the perfect example of what they are trying to create. Have a child that is outside the norm, either above or below, and see how that works out for you. If yu are not on top of it 24/7, they will eventually strive to move each child to a position of equality. Mainstream takes less work.
Very true. Wonder what Townhall's take would be.
When I was teaching the administration would spend hours trying to get the "mix" right. So many smart kids, so many dumb kids, so many blacks, so many whites, couldn't have the two Asians in the same class... it was ridiculous.
I ended up being able to do NOTHING with those classes. The smart kids were bored and I couldn't keep them engaged. The dumb couldn't stay up. I ended up teaching to the middle. Failed the smart kids because I couldn't inspire them to do more. Failed the dumb kids because I couldn't linger on the topics that they struggled with. The middle didn't care.
When my daughter was going into sixth grade they split her and her best friend into different classes. We noticed that they'd taken several of the brighers kids and divided them between different classes. The rationale when we asked was that "we need them in different classes to help pull the others up." I rejected that argument. It's not my child's place to pull up the class. I'd prefer that she be tracked with other students of similar intelligence, interest and aptitude. She wasn't going to pull a class full of meth momma clowns up, they would only pull her down. That's the great fallacy of education today. You can't cater to the best, you have to bow to the lowest. I pulled her out and put her in private school after that.
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Y'all apparently just have experience with really shitty school systems.
From the 1st grade the smart kids were culled and catered to in the Okaloosa County school system.
My Jr High/High Honors and AP classes were racially diverse and had none of the problems you are bemoaning. There were lesser Honors classes for the next tier, then there were regular classes and finally we had remedial classes for the ruh-tards.
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I was top of my class in remedial gym
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Okaloosa county - 82.7% white. So now we know where you get your ideas about integration and education from.
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Okaloosa county - 82.7% white. So now we know where you get your ideas about integration and education from.
My elementary school was lily white, but when it came time to head to FWB for Jr High and High school, there was a massive education in getting along with the various ethnicities.
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My elementary school was lily white, but when it came time to head to FWB for Jr High and High school, there was a massive education in getting along with the various ethnicities.
I'm sure you "got along" with those ethnic girls just fine. I know how sweet the brown sugar is too.
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I'm sure you "got along" with those ethnic girls just fine. I know how sweet the brown sugar is too.
Don't forget the asians and hispanics. My love knows no color boundary.
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Y'all apparently just have experience with really shootty school systems.
From the 1st grade the smart kids were culled and catered to in the Okaloosa County school system.
My Jr High/High Honors and AP classes were racially diverse and had none of the problems you are bemoaning. There were lesser Honors classes for the next tier, then there were regular classes and finally we had remedial classes for the ruh-tards.
Yeah. They have honors classes and special programs.
Maybe the trend is back toward tracking. I haven't seen it as much as I'd like. The problem is when you have Big Betty's parents and they think Big Betty is a genius and can't understand why her score of 34 on the placement test isn't good enough to get her in the class with her friends who are way smarter.
All of the classes I took preached inclusion and mainstreaming. You have to do the same for the chocolate-faced kid who crapped his trousers for fun as you did the kid who had his eyes on MIT.
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Yeah. They have honors classes and special programs.
Maybe the trend is back toward tracking. I haven't seen it as much as I'd like. The problem is when you have Big Betty's parents and they think Big Betty is a genius and can't understand why her score of 34 on the placement test isn't good enough to get her in the class with her friends who are way smarter.
All of the classes I took preached inclusion and mainstreaming. You have to do the same for the chocolate-faced kid who crapped his trousers for fun as you did the kid who had his eyes on MIT.
That's an indictment of that particular school system and a topic wholly separate from segregation, obviously.
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That's an indictment of that particular school system and a topic wholly separate from segregation, obviously.
This discussion has sprawled everywhere.
Points:
1) If left to their own devices, people will naturally segregate themselves based on race, culture, traditions, belief systems, etc. It is our natural and normal state to prefer company of people who are like us.
2) Forcing anything -- whether it be integration or segregation -- is wrong when the government is the one doing the forcing. Enforce laws that matter -- like don't kill and don't steal -- just don't square peg/round hole some dimwit's view of what a utopian society should look like through force.
3) George Wallace opposed federal government efforts to interfere in society. He never said that people shouldn't have equal rights or opportunity, he merely opposed efforts to artificially create those things by forcing societal change.
4) I support Wallace's position now as I did then. Less government. Less telling me what I can and can't do with property that belongs to me. If I'm a business owner I should have the right to deny service to blacks, Asians, Bama fans, people with moustaches or anybody wearing a Dave Matthews shirt if I want to. It's my business. I should be able to hire who I want, serve who I want and make or break on those decisions. As a home owner I should not be required to rent to anyone with a pulse. If I choose to make my home unavailable to douchebags in wife-beater t's that should be my right. I own the house. I bought it with money I earned.
So in sum, I support segregation on an individual basis if that's what people want to do. I support integration on an individual basis if that's what people want to do. I oppose any effort by the federal government to force either on me. God Bless George C. Wallace.
3)
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Very true. Wonder what Townhall's take would be.
Forced integration in the way that it was implemented in this country is THE single reason why our education system is failing in America today.
The single reason? Not by a mile.
Our education system isn't technically failing. That word usage is more chicanery than indicative of the current state. If you're in an affluent area, your education is just fine. You'll score well on test scores. You'll graduate. You'll go to college where you have the freedom to do well and succeed or not, which most people do succeed one way or another.
When you hear that the education system is failing, it means that the education system is failing poor minorities. More so the poor, really. Is it because of integration? No. If you still segregated schools, impoverished black kids in Ensley would still be drop outs, drug dealers, and dimwits all the same. There's no reason to think that integration is keeping the black kid from succeeding. And most affluent areas are still white enough to prevent the impoverished kids from affecting their scores. Just look at Hoover, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Oak Mountain, Pelham, Trussville, and Spain Park for examples.
Not only that, but it was the plan of the left to eventually make every child a compliant government drone all equal. If you do not believe that, then you are the perfect example of what they are trying to create. Have a child that is outside the norm, either above or below, and see how that works out for you. If yu are not on top of it 24/7, they will eventually strive to move each child to a position of equality. Mainstream takes less work.
This is conspiracy rubbish. My wife is a GRC teacher and is paid by the government to cultivate creativity in our young gifted and talented. There are IB, AP, honors, and advanced classes for students to take. And colleges and universities aren't forcing kids to be government drones by any means.
The fact is that for hundreds of years, in Western civilization, in Europe, and in most other areas, a society has had a peasant class. The peasants often did hard labor jobs which in our recent memory included working in factories and working in fields. We're outsourcing many of those factory jobs and also using cheap immigrants to work in the fields. So it's easy to look at the lower class kid or the subpar kid and think we're failing them. We aren't figuring out how to make them poets or musicians or engineers or doctors or writers, and we're blaming the system. It may be easy to think the government is just shoving government drivel down their throats and making them drones, when in reality, they're nothing more than a drone anyway. They need a disciplined occupation that rings a bell when it's time to complete the mindless task and rings a separate bell when it's time to stop. Your higher level kids are being vilified by some, but as for actually being hindered by the system? I don't think so.
But back to the original thought - I never once thought, "If only these black kids were back at their own schools, then maybe we'd be better off." As for granting leniency to black kids on test scores, that's a different story.
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The single reason? Not by a mile.
Our education system isn't technically failing. That word usage is more chicanery than indicative of the current state. If you're in an affluent area, your education is just fine. You'll score well on test scores. You'll graduate. You'll go to college where you have the freedom to do well and succeed or not, which most people do succeed one way or another.
When you hear that the education system is failing, it means that the education system is failing poor minorities. More so the poor, really. Is it because of integration? No. If you still segregated schools, impoverished black kids in Ensley would still be drop outs, drug dealers, and dimwits all the same. There's no reason to think that integration is keeping the black kid from succeeding. And most affluent areas are still white enough to prevent the impoverished kids from affecting their scores. Just look at Hoover, Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, Oak Mountain, Pelham, Trussville, and Spain Park for examples.
This is conspiracy rubbish. My wife is a GRC teacher and is paid by the government to cultivate creativity in our young gifted and talented. There are IB, AP, honors, and advanced classes for students to take. And colleges and universities aren't forcing kids to be government drones by any means.
The fact is that for hundreds of years, in Western civilization, in Europe, and in most other areas, a society has had a peasant class. The peasants often did hard labor jobs which in our recent memory included working in factories and working in fields. We're outsourcing many of those factory jobs and also using cheap immigrants to work in the fields. So it's easy to look at the lower class kid or the subpar kid and think we're failing them. We aren't figuring out how to make them poets or musicians or engineers or doctors or writers, and we're blaming the system. It may be easy to think the government is just shoving government drivel down their throats and making them drones, when in reality, they're nothing more than a drone anyway. They need a disciplined occupation that rings a bell when it's time to complete the mindless task and rings a separate bell when it's time to stop. Your higher level kids are being vilified by some, but as for actually being hindered by the system? I don't think so.
But back to the original thought - I never once thought, "If only these black kids were back at their own schools, then maybe we'd be better off." As for granting leniency to black kids on test scores, that's a different story.
I'm thinking Kaos may be thinking more along the lines of, a lot of the issue in the education system is due to certain govt morons trying to force an equal outcome. NCLB put that concept on steroids. And I know you can attest to that.
Forcing an equal outcome is the most asinine concept. It's not natural and were NOT all equal. It's just a fact. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Another thing they seem to think they can also do is throw endless money at a situation.
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I'm thinking Kaos may be thinking more along the lines of, a lot of the issue in the education system is due to certain govt morons trying to force an equal outcome. NCLB put that concept on steroids. And I know you can attest to that.
Forcing an equal outcome is the most asinine concept. It's not natural and were NOT all equal. It's just a fact. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Another thing they seem to think they can also do is throw endless money at a situation.
Oh, well, yeah. I agree with that. Forcing an equal outcome is impossible. Giving everybody the same opportunity for the highest outcome is a necessity.
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Oh, well, yeah. I agree with that. Forcing an equal outcome is impossible. Giving everybody the same opportunity for the highest outcome is a necessity.
You misread my statement. I did not say that integration caused this. I said that forced integration in the way that it was implemented caused this.
Like Kaos said, the sorry crabs pull the other back down. Integration set education back 20 years. It did nothing to increase the abilities of the children. All it did was set the standard lower.
So now we have an older generation that excelled in education and sent men to the moon (if you believe that) using an abacus. And we have all of the generations since that struggle to use a calculator. Sure we still ahve many smart people, but you will always have geniuses. Its the education system as a whole that is still behind. And why? because we successfully dragged the whole thing backwards at the time of integration.
I do not believe that integration was wrong, just the way it was implemented.
And yes, Kaos is correct. People segregate themselves. It's the government that thinks we should all be staggered like different dominoes.
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He'd be a Republican today.
Saw this today and was reminded of this claim.
http://classic.lagniappemobile.com/article.asp?articleID=6538&sid=8
The Beltway Beat by Jeff Poor
JUNE 26, 2013
WASHINGTON — Earlier this month, MSNBC host and part-time L’Oréal cosmetics model Chris Hayes made the error of labeling former Democratic Gov. George Wallace a Republican.
Hayes, as a liberal media figure who represents the mainstream of Democratic Party, was accused of trying to hide the Democratic Party’s racist past by mislabeling Wallace. He apologized the next day for the misidentification. Ironically, Hayes’ discussion of the former Democratic governor came 50 years to the day after Wallace made his infamous stand in the schoolhouse door at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa.
But what Hayes failed to mention was that not only was Wallace not a Republican, he wasn’t a conservative either, at least in a traditional sense.
Sure, Wallace co-opted the states’ rights/federalism argument, traditionally a conservative position, for the purpose of preserving segregation. But the bulk of his policies were not a reflection of Ronald Reagan conservatism.
On a national level, Wallace will always be seen as one of the villains of the Civil Rights Era.
While those in the left-leaning media would love to tie Wallace’s racist rants to the Republican Party, the Democratic governor’s policies were far more in line with populism and modern liberalism.
Wallace served as governor three separate times for four terms, but during those four terms it was quite clear he was motivated by populism, not ideology. Beyond the segregationism for which he earned fame, he as a governor was applauded for his economic endeavors.
But since Wallace was in perpetual campaign mode — whether it be for governor, president or promoting his wife’s 1966 gubernatorial campaign, he was in hock to those who supported his campaigns and often rewarded their loyalty with state contracts.
Even in my lifetime, the Interstates 20, 59 and 65 near and through Birmingham were left unfinished, all because Wallace saw that as a way to punish his political opponents in that city.
He also created the state junior college system that in later years would be a part-time playground for Democratic politicians ripe for corruption. Do any of those antics ring a bell, Mobilians?
But as a presidential politician, Wallace was even more of a creature of the left. Parts of his 1968 platform with running mate Curtis LeMay could have come straight out of the 2012 Democratic Party platform:
Job training and opportunity for all Americans willing and able to seek and bold gainful employment.
An alliance and partnership with the private sector of our economy seeking an end to poverty among our people.
An insistence that the laboring man and woman be given his fair share of responsibility and reward for the development of the mighty potential of this nation.
Likely the most compelling proof that Wallace was not a conservative, however, is his ticket’s position on health care:
"It is the obligation of a responsible government to help people who are unable to help themselves. There should be adequate medical assistance available to the aged and those unable to afford treatment. This can best be achieved through a partnership between federal and state governments and private enterprise. Medicare should be improved. It should be strengthened in conjunction with medical care provided at state and local governmental levels and by private insurance.â€
That sounds a lot like the same rhetoric coming out of the White House and congressional Democrats in 2009 and early 2010 during the Obamacare debate.
"In this land of plenty, no one should be denied adequate medical care because of his financial condition,†the document concludes.
In his last term as governor of Alabama, Wallace somehow won forgiveness from African-Americans. In the 1982 gubernatorial election, Wallace won an unprecedented amount of the black vote during the general election. And he would ultimately align the forces to create the so-called "Wallace Coalition†that would plague Goat Hill for nearly the next three decades — labor unions, the AEA, black political organizations and trial lawyers. It’s a pretty safe bet the John Birch Society didn’t have a seat at that table in the 1980s.
It’s a well-known phenomenon that after the Civil War, the South was solidly Democrat, which was not necessarily a reflection of ideology, but more of a protest vote against the Union. During the 1980s and 1990s, the South was undergoing a transition politically where it voted Democrat in local elections and Republican in national elections. And then finally in 2010, the last remnants of that phenomenon fell in Alabama when the Republicans controlled the House, Senate and the Governor’s Mansion all at the same time.
And Wallace wasn’t a "conservative†running under the Democratic Party label out of political necessity. He was a Democrat with many left-wing tendencies that built-up his populist appeal. And labeling him "conservative†solely because he was a segregationist is frankly ignorant.
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Why did he even mention Wallace and "Reagan conservative" ? Most of Wallace's career was over before the term Reagan conservative was even a thing. Wallace was first and foremost a "Dixiecrat". Well, until Forrest Gump posted up on him by helping that colored who dropped her book.
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Why did he even mention Wallace and "Reagan conservative" ? Most of Wallace's career was over before the term Reagan conservative was even a thing. Wallace was first and foremost a "Dixiecrat". Well, until Forrest Gump posted up on him by helping that colored who dropped her book.
Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.
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Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.
Not raccoons you idiot
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Mama use to use a broom to get rid of the coons.
Paula Deen's your mother?