Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on November 02, 2009, 10:22:03 AM
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have their lips still wrapped around Tuberville's cock...
Why is Auburn ten players short on scholarship this year and why is the talent that's been brought into Auburn so grossly under-developed? Why are we in this situation that took Alabama PROBATION to get into?
Thanks.
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While I may agree with you to an extent, why bash Tubs now? He is not part of the program anymore and blaming Tuberville now sounds like sour grapes.
Tuberville did a good job at Auburn and he did a lot of good things for the program. I wish his last couple of years would have been different, but they weren't. To openly cuss Tuberville and blame him for where we are at is in bad taste.
Auburn has the talent to beat both Kentucky and Arkansas, and we didn't. That is not Tubs fault...
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These are my answers....
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While I may agree with you to an extent, why bash Tubs now? He is not part of the program anymore and blaming Tuberville now sounds like sour grapes.
Tuberville did a good job at Auburn and he did a lot of good things for the program. I wish his last couple of years would have been different, but they weren't. To openly cuss Tuberville and blame him for where we are at is in bad taste.
Auburn has the talent to beat both Kentucky and Arkansas, and we didn't. That is not Tubs fault...
Agreed War Eagle. My thoughts are in another place though. I think that it's impossible for some to continuously bash the current staff without fully acknowledging what they're dealing with. My problem isn't so much Tuberville, rather the people that completely hack on Chizik while he deals with a position in which he was put.
Nothing more, or short of that. Bottom line, some would rather just bash the current staff to support their extreme view on where things are at Auburn. It's weak, and narrow minded.
My guess, it'll never be acknowledged, or admitted by those that can't handle that the job done at Auburn by Tuberville, or at least his staff, was poor by anyone's standard at the end.
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I have bashed Tubs and I have bashed the current staff. Both are deserved.
However, Tubs is no longer part of the program. To blame him is sour grapes. I will say that Tubs did get his ass handed to him by Saban and then got the fuck out of dodge. But I ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard that from me...
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I have bashed Tubs and I have bashed the current staff. Both are deserved.
However, Tubs is no longer part of the program. To blame him is sour grapes. I will say that Tubs did get his ass handed to him by Saban and then got the fuck out of dodge. But I ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard that from me...
Okay... I agree. You probably also acknowledge the past mistakes, or poor recruiting as part of WHEN you bashed the old staff though... Some refuse to acknowledge it.
A LOT of our depth issues have ZERO to do with the current staff, and even NOW, depth is an issue we'll be dealing with for another year or so...in THAT regard, the old staff is relevant. Will some acknowledge that? Not thinking so, but having that opinion might just get you called a colorful name or two.
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Errybody shares the blame.
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have their lips still wrapped around Tuberville's cock...
Why is Auburn ten players short on scholarship this year and why is the talent that's been brought into Auburn so grossly under-developed? Why are we in this situation that took Alabama PROBATION to get into?
Thanks.
:haha:
Fucking idiot.
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:haha:
Fucking idiot.
Thank you. The Kaos reply when he's been had, or has NO answer.
You've got NOTHING. Moving on....
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Thank you. The Kaos reply when he's been had, or has NO answer.
You've got NOTHING. Moving on....
Actually, you're reading into his response too much.
The smiley he chose is pointing to his screenname and avatar. I think he's calling himself a fucking idiot.
Which, combined with a few other things I've read from him, I'm inclined to agree with.
Who knew.... Kaos and I are on common ground about something.
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Here's another more specific take on things:
Yes, the house was not nice and tidy when Tubs and Co. left. But seldom do coaches EVER leave behind a stellar program. I would say that LSU (Miles) and Florida (Meyer) are exceptions rather than the rule.
So honestly, there is no way I am gonna bash Tubs - not now, no way, no how.
For you to say those of us who still love Tubs and appreciate him for all he did for Auburn are sucking his dick kind of makes me agree with Kaos. You could have written that a lot of different ways but you just had to go for the extreme - all or nothing.
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Here's another more specific take on things:
Yes, the house was not nice and tidy when Tubs and Co. left. But seldom do coaches EVER leave behind a stellar program. I would say that LSU (Miles) and Florida (Meyer) are exceptions rather than the rule.
So honestly, there is no way I am gonna bash Tubs - not now, no way, no how.
For you to say those of us who still love Tubs and appreciate him for all he did for Auburn are sucking his dick kind of makes me agree with Kaos. You could have written that a lot of different ways but you just had to go for the extreme - all or nothing.
You're right..could have said it differently, but again, you're not on here bashing someone's opinion and misrepresenting someone's opinion either. My point here was rather to point out that some here are willing to bash the current staff while ignoring things that were completely out of their hands. Depth is a major, glaring example of this.
This isn't calling Tuberville a cocksucker, or saying that he wasn't the best thing to happen at Auburn for a long time, but to ignore the dreadful position we're in due to his failure in recruiting at the end, would be irresponsible, and certainly doesn't give you a solid base to be calling anyone else "fucking idiot" for simply recognizing it in their opinions. That's for sure.
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You're right..could have said it differently, but again, you're not on here bashing someone's opinion and misrepresenting someone's opinion either. My point here was rather to point out that some here are willing to bash the current staff while ignoring things that were completely out of their hands. Depth is a major, glaring example of this.
Auburn has more talent than both Arkansas and Kentucky. Who's fault is it that we came away with embarrassing losses for both of those games?
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Auburn has more talent than both Arkansas and Kentucky. Who's fault is it that we came away with embarrassing losses for both of those games?
Squarely on the shoulders of the current staff, but I don't think you can totally dismiss depth either. We had seven walk ons playing on the kick off return in the third quarter against Arkansas. They gave up a 70 yard return that killed the momentum that game. Most teams play good players on special teams to keep that stuff from happening. That's just one example. You can say it's an excuse, but even Roof said in interviews last week, that he "simply didn't have the bodies to get as aggressive as he'd like to" on defense. Who knows....
I'm not going anywhere NEAR saying that depth is the only issue, but it certainly has played into the equation. Can you really deny that? Just my opinion....
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Auburn has more talent than both Arkansas and Kentucky. Who's fault is it that we came away with embarrassing losses for both of those games?
UK I agree with. Arky, no way are we more talented. Possibly on relatively equal footing and certainly there's not a disparity indicative of the way Auburn was gutted in the Hawg pen.
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UK I agree with. Arky, no way are we more talented. Possibly on relatively equal footing and certainly there's not a disparity indicative of the way Auburn was gutted in the Hawg pen.
I would take probably every one of our starters over Arkansas' with the exception of QB. Maybe LB's...but I don't know enough about the ARK LB core...
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Why didn't you just send Kaos a PM?
Why try to act like you're interested in an honest constructive Tuberville discussion when everyone here knows your opinion and knows you're sitting by the computer waiting for Kaos' response just so you can start calling each other idiots again?
There are certain facts that are not even worth discussing and should speak for themselves.
Tuberville took over a wreck.
He turned it around.
He ran probably the cleanest and classiest program the SEC has seen since I've been alive.
He led Auburn to it's only 13 win season.
He led a senior class that graduated with the most wins any senior class has ever had at Auburn.
He led a 6 game win streak against Alabama.
He had a five year run as successful as any in Auburn history, winning 50 games.
He had an outstanding record against teams ranked in the Top 10.
He had top 10 recruiting classes throughout his tenure, and as recently as 2007.
He led an Auburn team that was second only to Florida from 2002 to 2007 in wins against the other top 5 SEC programs.
He will go down as one of Auburn's greatest coaches, plain and simple.
Consider his tool sucked....he earned it.
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This isn't calling Tuberville a cocksucker, or saying that he wasn't the best thing to happen at Auburn for a long time, but to ignore the dreadful position we're in due to his failure in recruiting at the end, would be irresponsible, and certainly doesn't give you a solid base to be calling anyone else "phuking idiot" for simply recognizing it in their opinions. That's for sure.
^^
That's not why.
Just saying...
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Why didn't you just send Kaos a PM?
Why try to act like you're interested in an honest constructive Tuberville discussion when everyone here knows your opinion and knows you're sitting by the computer waiting for Kaos' response just so you can start calling each other idiots again?
What I was saying, only less nicely.
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Auburn has more talent than both Arkansas and Kentucky. Who's fault is it that we came away with embarrassing losses for both of those games?
Exactly. Alabama had more talent than ULM. We still lost. There is no blaming that on anybody other than our current staff. Saban wasn't left with a stocked cupboard either. We had horrible depth issues in 2007. We had to play a shitload of young guys too. We sucked in 2007, true enough. Can Chizik and Co. turn it around in 2010? Dunno....
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Why try to act like you're interested in an honest constructive Tuberville discussion when everyone here knows your opinion and knows you're sitting by the computer waiting for Kaos' response just so you can start calling each other idiots again?
There are certain facts that are not even worth discussing and should speak for themselves.
Tuberville took over a wreck.
He turned it around.
He ran probably the cleanest and classiest program the SEC has seen since I've been alive.
He led Auburn to it's only 13 win season.
He led a senior class that graduated with the most wins any senior class has ever had at Auburn.
He led a 6 game win streak against Alabama.
He had a five year run as successful as any in Auburn history, winning 50 games.
He had an outstanding record against teams ranked in the Top 10.
He had top 10 recruiting classes throughout his tenure, and as recently as 2007.
He led an Auburn team that was second only to Florida from 2002 to 2007 in wins against the other top 5 SEC programs.
He will go down as one of Auburn's greatest coaches, plain and simple.
Consider his tool sucked....he earned it.
Okay... Again... NOBODY is calling Tommy Tuberville, the man, the coach that did EVERYTHING you just said a failure.
Go back and read. Try again, and it's clear that I'm asking WHY we are in the situation we are in now with the shortcomings of sholarship players. I was asking how it is that we're in the SAME position numbers wise as Alabama was when they were on probation. Why? I especially want to hear it from people that rush to the defense of Tuberville on this issue.
It's an honest question. The fact is, is that there are some on THIS board, and on OTHER boards that exclusively bash the current staff for things like depth, that were completely out of their hands coming into this year. How??
SO... it is a clean debate and question. YES, I asked it because Kaos refused to answer it while it got buried in another thread, and he continued to do NOTHING but call me every name in the book anyway. It added nothing...zero. SO...I started over here. He continued his BS in this thread, while a few others actually exchanged their views...what a novel concept. Nobody was called stupid. Amazing.
My opinion is that Tuberville and his staff failed miserably in recruiting over the past few years due to whatever reason (Saban, desire...whatever...) and that can NOT be ignored when we're suffering from a lack of players on defense, or in the development of a quality quarterback. That is my opinion...
Think differently? Fine. I'd rather hear your reasons though, instead of all the other bullshit. I, we, get enough of that shit with the Kaos exchanges.
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He ran probably the cleanest and classiest program the SEC has seen since I've been alive.
Consider his tool sucked....he earned it.
Does anyone really care about this? He was also an Auburn man. (Whatever that is)
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To answer the question with my "expert" (See Crown results for week 9) analysis....
I think it's a combination of several issues. Were Tubs and Co. part of the problem? Yes. A pretty big part of it the last couple of years. I was saying that while CTT was here, not just after that staff departed. It became clear that the days of barnstorming the homes of the top recruits was over. While Nick Saban was putting ther blitzkreig on every high school, every top recruits home, every ball game where a 4-5* recruit was playing, Tuberville was getting verbals from 2-3* kids who "Camped well" and would really be something with a year or two of Yoxercise.
Look, I agree that CTT will go down as one of the all time Auburn greats. He already is. He deserves the accolades. But, so does Pat Dye. And how did his last couple of years work out for him? Tuberville took a $3 mil salary and a $5 mil buyout after a year of FAIL. That can't be ignored. You are paid that kind of money for results. He was the man at the top. He's the man gettin' paid. He shoulders the burden, right or wrong.
Now, are there other factors? Certainly. Some of which are guys that just plain never panned out and never contributed a thing to Auburn's program. Some guys left early. Some guys were injured, etc. Was Raven Gray the baddest mamma-jamma on the planet coming in? Would Pat Sims and Senderrick Marks have helped out a little? Should Jerraud Powers have come out early? A little research will net you a ton of stories outside a coach's control. How many guys got kicked off this summer that would have helped us?
There's a lot of factors that have put us where we are today. All on Tubby? Nope. Some of it...definitely. Does that tarnish his legacy? Our field is named after the Coach who put us on probation. So, no luster will be taken off the Tubby shine.
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Does anyone really care about this? He was also an Auburn man. (Whatever that is)
I care about it.
I also know what an Auburn man is...and it really doesn't get any better than that.
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Why should we look for someone to blame? Even if we had more scholarships, that doesn't necessarily translate into wins against Arky, LSU and Kentucky, well maybe Kentucky. Let the season continue without complaining so much.
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No , there are still quite a few names left in the book. Take "curdletwat" for instance. I'm just saving them for later.
When are you going to answer the woodchuck question? Do I need to start a new thread so it doesn't get buried?
Okay... Again... NOBODY is calling Tommy Tuberville, the man, the coach that did EVERYTHING you just said a failure.
Go back and read. Try again, and it's clear that I'm asking WHY we are in the situation we are in now with the shortcomings of sholarship players. I was asking how it is that we're in the SAME position numbers wise as Alabama was when they were on probation. Why? I especially want to hear it from people that rush to the defense of Tuberville on this issue.
It's an honest question. The fact is, is that there are some on THIS board, and on OTHER boards that exclusively bash the current staff for things like depth, that were completely out of their hands coming into this year. How??
SO... it is a clean debate and question. YES, I asked it because Kaos refused to answer it while it got buried in another thread, and he continued to do NOTHING but call me every name in the book anyway. It added nothing...zero. SO...I started over here. He continued his BS in this thread, while a few others actually exchanged their views...what a novel concept. Nobody was called stupid. Amazing.
My opinion is that Tuberville and his staff failed miserably in recruiting over the past few years due to whatever reason (Saban, desire...whatever...) and that can NOT be ignored when we're suffering from a lack of players on defense, or in the development of a quality quarterback. That is my opinion...
Think differently? Fine. I'd rather hear your reasons though, instead of all the other bullpoop. I, we, get enough of that poop with the Kaos exchanges.
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To answer the question with my "expert" (See Crown results for week 9) analysis....
I think it's a combination of several issues. Were Tubs and Co. part of the problem? Yes. A pretty big part of it the last couple of years. I was saying that while CTT was here, not just after that staff departed. It became clear that the days of barnstorming the homes of the top recruits was over. While Nick Saban was putting ther blitzkreig on every high school, every top recruits home, every ball game where a 4-5* recruit was playing, Tuberville was getting verbals from 2-3* kids who "Camped well" and would really be something with a year or two of Yoxercise.
Look, I agree that CTT will go down as one of the all time Auburn greats. He already is. He deserves the accolades. But, so does Pat Dye. And how did his last couple of years work out for him? Tuberville took a $3 mil salary and a $5 mil buyout after a year of FAIL. That can't be ignored. You are paid that kind of money for results. He was the man at the top. He's the man gettin' paid. He shoulders the burden, right or wrong.
Now, are there other factors? Certainly. Some of which are guys that just plain never panned out and never contributed a thing to Auburn's program. Some guys left early. Some guys were injured, etc. Was Raven Gray the baddest mamma-jamma on the planet coming in? Would Pat Sims and Senderrick Marks have helped out a little? Should Jerraud Powers have come out early? A little research will net you a ton of stories outside a coach's control. How many guys got kicked off this summer that would have helped us?
There's a lot of factors that have put us where we are today. All on Tubby? Nope. Some of it...definitely. Does that tarnish his legacy? Our field is named after the Coach who put us on probation. So, no luster will be taken off the Tubby shine.
Most fair take I've seen yet. Agreed.
Look at me and my AWESOME KISS face paint!!! Look at MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! I can put together uber-hilarious insulting word combinations!!! ...and dress up like KISS!!!!!!!!!! I'm a badass motherfucker!!!!!!!!! Gene Simmons is my daddy!!!!!!!!!!
:haha:
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(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/pmichelle_lee/thstfu.jpg)
Let's not do this shit again.
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(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l9/pmichelle_lee/thstfu.jpg)
Let's not do this shit again.
Okay...now I heart you.
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Well, Chop, since you're clowning again I'm going to go ahead and give you what you deserve here. Minus profanity and dealt from a perfectly rational, logical perspective.
First, this thread you started is not about searching for answers or seeking meaning. It's about one thing and one thing only. You.
It's a manifestation of your need for validation, of your craving to have people agree with you or take your "side" against whatever evil empire you've created in your mind.
You didn't really ask a question so much as you stated your completely biased position, trolled for support and dared anyone to challenge your own myopic way of thinking.
Anyone who disagreed with you in this thread (or really in any other) would be greeted with your patented "yeah but," reply in which you restated your original position and added a few capital letters, a "common sense" or a "period" for emphasis.
You have a pre-ordained agenda here, and it isn't about Auburn, it's not about seeking truths regarding the current situation, it's not about trying to figure out how things reached this point (a point which is not as dire as you're want to make it). It's about you being Chopper.
You don't want an answer. You want to score mental points so you can high five your Live Doll or some homeless guy on the street because you "showed them"
You clam you are interested in "clean debate." How ridiculous. Do you honestly see it that way? You're never about anything other than advancing your own agenda. You have no more interest in "honest debate" than Doogie Howser does in pussy. Don't be disingenuous. It's beneath even you.
I don't mind admitting, I have little interest in debate for two reasons. One, most people aren't capable and slide off into diversion and spin and when that gets them nowhwere, foot-stomping dinosaurian rants. Two, because I'm generally not interested in having my opinion changed. You have to have my respect for that to happen and I only know a few of you well enough to consider it.
Part of that is my background. I've been writing for a long time. I'm paid to have an opinion and to defend it. Most of the time I have to have it formed pretty quickly. When you're writing you rarely get a couple of weeks to "wait and see how things pan out." From a writing standpoint nobody really gives a poop to read "we will just have to see." People want an opinion, right or wrong. They want it so they can call you an idiot if you're wrong or if they disagree or so they can use what you say as ammunition when making their own arguments. That's one reason I come across the way I do sometimes. I form my opinion and I live with it.
You guys rip Finebaum and Scarbinsky one week and love on their ass another based on what they write. I'm not in their league and not saying I am, but the concept is basically the same. I take what evidence is there and I make up my mind. When I do, I'm done with it until something else happens to change it or I'm presented with additional evidence. Evidence, to me, isn't somebody else's opinion. I got mine. What the phuk do I need with yours?
So you can keep on if you want. Doesn't matter to me either way. But you should at least be honest with yourself. Period.
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Eloquent, to the point, perfect blend of toned down sass to reasonable and valid points. Stuck on point and seldom strayed off the path. Solid post, and I give you a 7.38 out of a possible 10.
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Eloquent, to the point, perfect blend of toned down sass to reasonable and valid points. Stuck on point and seldom strayed off the path. Solid post, and I give you a 7.38 out of a possible 10.
Well thanks, man. I didn't know you were really reading that close but to hear praise like that coming from you is....
What's that? He was talking about Kaos?
Fuck
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Okay...now I heart you.
Resistance is futile. ;)
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To resist us is useless. It is useless to resist us.
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Okay...now I heart you.
^^^^This^^^^
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Well, Chop, since you're clowning again I'm going to go ahead and give you what you deserve here. Minus profanity and dealt from a perfectly rational, logical perspective.
First, this thread you started is not about searching for answers or seeking meaning. It's about one thing and one thing only. You.
It's a manifestation of your need for validation, of your craving to have people agree with you or take your "side" against whatever evil empire you've created in your mind.
You didn't really ask a question so much as you stated your completely biased position, trolled for support and dared anyone to challenge your own myopic way of thinking.
Anyone who disagreed with you in this thread (or really in any other) would be greeted with your patented "yeah but," reply in which you restated your original position and added a few capital letters, a "common sense" or a "period" for emphasis.
You have a pre-ordained agenda here, and it isn't about Auburn, it's not about seeking truths regarding the current situation, it's not about trying to figure out how things reached this point (a point which is not as dire as you're want to make it). It's about you being Chopper.
You don't want an answer. You want to score mental points so you can high five your Live Doll or some homeless guy on the street because you "showed them"
You clam you are interested in "clean debate." How ridiculous. Do you honestly see it that way? You're never about anything other than advancing your own agenda. You have no more interest in "honest debate" than Doogie Howser does in pussy. Don't be disingenuous. It's beneath even you.
I don't mind admitting, I have little interest in debate for two reasons. One, most people aren't capable and slide off into diversion and spin and when that gets them nowhwere, foot-stomping dinosaurian rants. Two, because I'm generally not interested in having my opinion changed. You have to have my respect for that to happen and I only know a few of you well enough to consider it.
Part of that is my background. I've been writing for a long time. I'm paid to have an opinion and to defend it. Most of the time I have to have it formed pretty quickly. When you're writing you rarely get a couple of weeks to "wait and see how things pan out." From a writing standpoint nobody really gives a poop to read "we will just have to see." People want an opinion, right or wrong. They want it so they can call you an idiot if you're wrong or if they disagree or so they can use what you say as ammunition when making their own arguments. That's one reason I come across the way I do sometimes. I form my opinion and I live with it.
You guys rip Finebaum and Scarbinsky one week and love on their ass another based on what they write. I'm not in their league and not saying I am, but the concept is basically the same. I take what evidence is there and I make up my mind. When I do, I'm done with it until something else happens to change it or I'm presented with additional evidence. Evidence, to me, isn't somebody else's opinion. I got mine. What the phuk do I need with yours?
So you can keep on if you want. Doesn't matter to me either way. But you should at least be honest with yourself. Period.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Let me show you how easy this is to turn right around on you....
Well, Kaos, since you're clowning again I'm going to go ahead and give you what you deserve here. Minus profanity and dealt from a perfectly rational, logical perspective.
First, many threads you start, like the "Josh Moon Rapes Chizik", and other rants about how we are a "Hindenburg", are not about searching for answers or seeking meaning. It's about one thing and one thing only. You.
It's a manifestation of your need for validation, of your craving to have people agree with you or take your "side" against whatever evil empire you've created in your mind.
You didn't really post the article, or make your case, so much as you stated your completely biased position, trolled for support and dared anyone to challenge your own myopic way of thinking.
Anyone who disagreed with you in this thread (or really in any other) would be greeted with your patented "Chizdick Sucking Loon," or "Fucking idiot" reply in which you restated your original position and added a few colorful animal raping adjectives, a "go fuck yourself" or a " :haha:" emoticon for emphasis.
You have a pre-ordained agenda here, and it isn't about Auburn, it's not about seeking truths regarding the current situation, it's not about trying to figure out how things reached this point (a point which is not as dire as you're want to make it). It's about you being Kaos.
You don't have, or want an answer. You want to score mental points so you can high five your Live Doll or whack off to the latest KISS album while painted up as one of the freak bastards, because you "showed them".
You claim you are interested in "debate." How ridiculous. Do you honestly see it that way? You're never about anything other than advancing your own agenda. You have no more interest in "debate" than Raven has in getting within 100 yards of you. Don't be disingenuous. It's beneath even you.
You have little interest in debate for two reasons. One, you aren't capable and slide off into diversion and spin and when that gets you nowhwere, foot-stomping dinosaurian rants begin. Two, because you're generally not interested in having your opinion changed. Anyone that's been here for more than a week knows that you're not going to change your mind, or respect what anyone else has to say if it isn't in line with what you've been pushing in your Chizik rants.
I've been writing for a long time. At least since kindergarten. I'm not paid to have an opinion and to defend it however. When you're writing you rarely get a couple of weeks to "wait and see how things pan out, but thank God, I'm just a guy in the steel busines, so I can just relax and wait because my well being doesn't depend on me having to have an ironclad opinion right now. People still want an opinion though, right or wrong. They want it so they can call you an idiot if you're wrong or if they disagree or so they can use what you say as ammunition when making their own arguments. That's one reason I come across the way I do sometimes. I form my opinion and I live with it. It's part of being on a message board. Again, thank goodness I'm not a professional writer.
So you can keep on if you want. Doesn't matter to me either way. But you should at least be honest with yourself. Period.
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^^
Fail
(http://crabapplenyc.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/pee-wee-herman.jpg)
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To resist us is useless. It is useless to resist us.
You can dress up like a soldier in your onion-head hat.
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You can dress up like a soldierSultan in your onion-head hat.
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Thanks. Haven't listened to that in forever and couldn't quite place that word.
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Thanks. Haven't listened to that in forever and couldn't quite place that word.
You must have been too busy building a religion
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have their lips still wrapped around Tuberville's cock...
Why is Auburn ten players short on scholarship this year and why is the talent that's been brought into Auburn so grossly under-developed? Why are we in this situation that took Alabama PROBATION to get into?
Thanks.
The first line of this post shows your hand. A few posts below the particular quoted, post you talk about these recruits that were less than stellar that CTT brought in. Funny, when he was landing them and you guys needed to make an argument that CTT was doing just fine recruiting against CNS, these guys were studs under the radar and Saban was simply checking Rivals to see who had stars. It was all OK until you got your asses handed to you in the Iron Bowl. So, which one is it? They are studs under the radar when you need to make an argument, but when you need a scapegoat, they are total turds?
True, not everything is Chizik's fault. The depth he was handed isn't his fault. The talent he was handed isn't his fault. But a good coach makes it work. I hate to sound like a broken record, but other than Andre Smith and Rolando McClain, just what the hell did Saban get left with? Other than McClain, we had 3 LBs and one of them was a converted DB. One was a walk-on. Rashad Johnson was a walk-on. Javier Arenas was a 3* ATH with an offer from Alabama and FIU. You think Cory Reamer was a highly recruited stud out of HS? No. You coach what you have, and you get them to play over their heads.
True enough, Saban's first season wasn't pretty. Chizik will more than likely have a better first season than Saban did, and I highly doubt AU loses to Furman. I'm not so sure that we couldn't have done better had Major Applewhite not been our OC, but who knows. If it was somebody else, we might have only won 5 games. Maybe we would have won 10. You never know. But what I do know, is going 20-2 over the next two seasons gives me hope that we're on the right track. Chizik might do the same thing next season. I think head coaches in their first year at a program are generally given a pass. You can say whatever you want, but AU was in a MUCH better position than Alabama when Chizik took over than when Saban took over at Alabama. At least you guys had a real coach for 10 years. We couldn't keep a coach, and when we did, he would drive the program into the ground while there.
I think the problem that you're going to run into is CTT gave AU some really good years. He owned Alabama during his tenure. He was actually able to hinder the development of Alabama by being a good coach and recruiting. Much like the way Alabama is hindering AU at this point. Its easy for us to trash Shula, etc. They didn't do shit but drive the program deeper and deeper into the rut.
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I think the problem that you're going to run into is CTT gave AU some really good years. He owned Alabama during his tenure. He was actually able to hinder the development of Alabama by being a good coach and recruiting. Much like the way Alabama is hindering AU at this point. Its easy for us to trash Shula, etc. They didn't do shit but drive the program deeper and deeper into the rut.
I'm sorry, but the last few years of his tenure, this was not true in my opinion.
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The first line of this post shows your hand. A few posts below the particular quoted, post you talk about these recruits that were less than stellar that CTT brought in. Funny, when he was landing them and you guys needed to make an argument that CTT was doing just fine recruiting against CNS, these guys were studs under the radar and Saban was simply checking Rivals to see who had stars.
My problem was not that most of the recruits CTT brought in were less than stellar. I felt like he was getting his share of talent but if the talent cannot get into or stay in school than it is all for naught. CTT had made a living out of finding some diamonds in the rough to sandwich in between a few grade a players each year and the couple of years where the rough ones don't work out depth becomes an immediate problem. At the end of the day it is fine to have some project players but you cannot live off of them. You gotta have the depth.
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True enough, Saban's first season wasn't pretty. Chizik will more than likely have a better first season than Saban did, and I highly doubt AU loses to Furman. I'm not so sure that we couldn't have done better had Major Applewhite not been our OC, but who knows. If it was somebody else, we might have only won 5 games. Maybe we would have won 10. You never know. But what I do know, is going 20-2 over the next two seasons gives me hope that we're on the right track. Chizik might do the same thing next season. I think head coaches in their first year at a program are generally given a pass. You can say whatever you want, but AU was in a MUCH better position than Alabama when Chizik took over than when Saban took over at Alabama. At least you guys had a real coach for 10 years. We couldn't keep a coach, and when we did, he would drive the program into the ground while there.
At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.
Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.
Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).
The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.
Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.
In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.
In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.
In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.
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At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.
Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.
Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).
The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.
Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.
In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.
In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.
In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.
And then Saban rattled off the #1 recruiting class in the nation. That has to be part of his "evaluation" for his first full year at the school. That's what Saban does. I think he is an average to good coach...but he is a great recruiter. He gets better athletes than everyone else...and then puts them in postion to win. He runs a mini NFL football team. He did it at LSU and he is doing it at Alabama. He will do it if he moves on to somewhere else.
It is a decent system...not unbeatable, but a good system.
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At least uat went to a bowl in 2006.
Bama went from 6-6 and a bowl loss to Oklahoma State, to 6-6 and a bowl win over Colorado. Not dramatic first year improvement.
Half the losses were still to the same teams you lost to the year before (Auburn, Mississippi State, & LSU). Except the Arkansas, Florida, & Tennessee losses (all away) were replaced with the somewhat less impressive Georgia(at home), FSU (neutral), & LA Monroe(at home) (who you beat the year before). He ended the regular season on a 4 game losing streak (plus another two consecutive losses earlier in the season).
The record is one bowl game better on paper, but a closer looks shows it really was a step backward in Saban's first year.
Contrast that with Tuberville's last and Chizik's first year.
In 2008 Auburn went 5-7. Even the score made us look better in the first two games than we did. By the 3-2 baseball score against Mississippi State, we knew we were in trouble. Vandy beats us for the first time in over 50 years, and the wheels fell completely off. The only other team we beat the rest of the year was Tennessee-Martin--and we squeaked that one out.
In 2009 Chizik has already improved last season's record with damn near the same group of kids. All common sense points to at LEAST a two game improvement BEFORE the bowl game. Those that left early far outweigh any of Tuberville's commitments that were able to come in and make a difference.
In summation, not only do I believe Chizik has done more in his first year than Saban did in his, he had inherited a team in worse shape than the one Saban did.
I already said that Chizik is going to have a better first year than Saban's, save a loss to Furman or something weird like that. I think we can all agree that our loss to ULM wasn't indicitave of our staff, though. I think there were alot of things that contributed to that, however, you can't absolve the coaches completely. You can keep pointing back to ULM all you want. We are 20-2 for '08 and '09. Saban already had a pedigree for turning programs around and doing well. Chizik hasn't even came close to establishing that. He didn't do it at ISU. He's not particularly turning AU around at this point, either. FWIW, I don't think AU needs a ton of turning around. They need a real OC that will run a real offense. But thats a whole different thread......
And your contention that Chizik inherited a worse program than what Saban inherited is absolutely ridiculous. So, you're telling me that after all those years of touting CTT's greatness, he couldn't make AU any better than a program plagued by a decade of mediocrity, coaching carousels, scandals, and probation? And he put AU in that position in a matter of two years? You're telling me that Mike Shula helped Alabama overcome Auburn, and CTT sat by helplessly? Are you telling me that an Alabama coach who was hired then fired before his first game somehow helped our program? Changing two head coaches in a matter of months somehow helped Alabama? Total bullshit. I don't know if you even believe what you say.
Saban didn't sit around and bitch, whine, and moan about what he was handed. He went in, did the best he could with it, and went out and recruited some legit talent. Thats what a good coach does. You make it work.
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I already said that Chizik is going to have a better first year than Saban's, save a loss to Furman or something weird like that. I think we can all agree that our loss to ULM wasn't indicitave of our staff, though. I think there were alot of things that contributed to that, however, you can't absolve the coaches completely. You can keep pointing back to ULM all you want. We are 20-2 for '08 and '09. Saban already had a pedigree for turning programs around and doing well. Chizik hasn't even came close to establishing that. He didn't do it at ISU. He's not particularly turning AU around at this point, either. FWIW, I don't think AU needs a ton of turning around. They need a real OC that will run a real offense. But thats a whole different thread......
And your contention that Chizik inherited a worse program than what Saban inherited is absolutely ridiculous. So, you're telling me that after all those years of touting CTT's greatness, he couldn't make AU any better than a program plagued by a decade of mediocrity, coaching carousels, scandals, and probation? And he put AU in that position in a matter of two years? You're telling me that Mike Shula helped Alabama overcome Auburn, and CTT sat by helplessly? Are you telling me that an Alabama coach who was hired then fired before his first game somehow helped our program? Changing two head coaches in a matter of months somehow helped Alabama? Total bullshit. I don't know if you even believe what you say.
Saban didn't sit around and bitch, whine, and moan about what he was handed. He went in, did the best he could with it, and went out and recruited some legit talent. Thats what a good coach does. You make it work.
I'm talking 2006 vs. 2007 for Bama, and 2008 vs. 2009 for Auburn.
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I'm talking 2006 vs. 2007 for Bama, and 2008 vs. 2009 for Auburn.
I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.
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I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.
I'm not sure that can be stated with certainty either way yet?
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I'm talking about your summation that Chizik inherited a worse situation than Saban did.
And I'm saying that that is vague.
Long-term, yes, bama has sucked for way longer than Auburn. They have been mired in mediocrity since the two of us have been alive. You're right. Of course, this wasn't your position two years ago, but whatever.
Short-term, however...From year A to year B. Chizik inherited a worse team the year before, and did more with it the very next year.
All I'm sayin.
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I think with Kaos's uber l337 writing skills he could come up with something better than that. It didn't really make a point one way or another, just said "I'm a writer, piss off."
Anyway, that's all on that front.
Back on point:
Over the years I've had lots of people from other fan bases ask me why we liked CTT so much. I always saw him as classy, composed, intelligent, and a hell of a COACH. Not just a football coach, but a COACH. Teaching these young players to be better people. How he handled games, how he handled losing, how he handled winning, kneeling and not running up the score isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of a gentleman. That's how I viewed CTT. He was, and to me always will be, one of the best Auburn coaches we had.
Now, as for why people asked me why we liked him... their point was Nick Saban nailed our asses to the wall on recruiting, and he did it with out the use of a 6 game streak against your opponent. He screamed BOOYAH and took the rug out from underneath us. Why? Were we lazy? Does Nick really have that much sneaky sneaky cash to give to recruits? Who knows, but we got beat the fuck down.
Most of us turned a blind eye to it. I know I did, when a co-worker came to me and said "you know what, with all that Tubb's COULD offer, to still get beat by Bama in recruiting? I'd be pissed if I were you. Truly pissed.." I just said "hey, CTT is a good coach, we're still winning, right?!"
Then the winning stopped, and all the sudden recruiting seemed more important. I'll still pucker my lips for him. I still miss the man as our head coach. BUT... on the point that this new staff is failing miserably because they all suck? Horseshit. These guys rebuilt the engine on a program that had blown up bigtime, and did it in an off season.
I'm sad to see Tubb's gone, but I'm glad to have a staff that (once they get in sync with each other) will really put the right foot down on the pedal.
CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him. I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again. But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.
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I think with Kaos's uber l337 writing skills he could come up with something better than that. It didn't really make a point one way or another, just said "I'm a writer, piss off."
Anyway, that's all on that front.
Back on point:
Over the years I've had lots of people from other fan bases ask me why we liked CTT so much. I always saw him as classy, composed, intelligent, and a hell of a COACH. Not just a football coach, but a COACH. Teaching these young players to be better people. How he handled games, how he handled losing, how he handled winning, kneeling and not running up the score isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of a gentleman. That's how I viewed CTT. He was, and to me always will be, one of the best Auburn coaches we had.
Now, as for why people asked me why we liked him... their point was Nick Saban nailed our asses to the wall on recruiting, and he did it with out the use of a 6 game streak against your opponent. He screamed BOOYAH and took the rug out from underneath us. Why? Were we lazy? Does Nick really have that much sneaky sneaky cash to give to recruits? Who knows, but we got beat the fuck down.
Most of us turned a blind eye to it. I know I did, when a co-worker came to me and said "you know what, with all that Tubb's COULD offer, to still get beat by Bama in recruiting? I'd be pissed if I were you. Truly pissed.." I just said "hey, CTT is a good coach, we're still winning, right?!"
Then the winning stopped, and all the sudden recruiting seemed more important. I'll still pucker my lips for him. I still miss the man as our head coach. BUT... on the point that this new staff is failing miserably because they all suck? Horseshit. These guys rebuilt the engine on a program that had blown up bigtime, and did it in an off season.
I'm sad to see Tubb's gone, but I'm glad to have a staff that (once they get in sync with each other) will really put the right foot down on the pedal.
CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him. I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again. But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.
This. All of it.
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Of course, this wasn't your position two years ago, but whatever.
Once again, you are full of shit.
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CTT was tired, and tired of the bullshit... I'd have dipped years ago with the hell that the administration laid on him. I'm proud he stuck around, and given a choice I'd support him as a head coach again. But being tired and being hounded doesn't win us ballgames, so I still have to say that we need to at least respect the fact that he did leave behind a weak program for these new coaches to work with.
It was time CTT to leave, hell I would have told'em to fuck off long ago. did he leave behind a weak program? Saturday said no. I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "Fuck off coaches, we need this win."
So we are 10 short on scholly's at this moment. You need 22 players to start and 22 good backups with 22 "oh shit we need someone else in there now." guys. We have those numbers covered.
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I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "Fuck off coaches, we need this win."
Now, that just doesn't make any sense.
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Now, that just doesn't make any sense.
Be careful wrestling with pigs.
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Be careful wrestling with pigs.
You got a problem with bacon?
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You got a problem with bacon?
Love bacon but when you wrestle with them you get dirty and the pig likes it.
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Love bacon but when you wrestle with them you get dirty and the pig likes it.
Pigs need lovin' too.
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Pigs need lovin' too.
I've heard a well lubed one does not squeal.
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I've heard a well lubed one does not squeal.
They all squeal if you stick 'em in the right spot.
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Once again, you are full of shit.
It was time CTT to leave, hell I would have told'em to fuck off long ago. did he leave behind a weak program? Saturday said no. I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "Fuck off coaches, we need this win."
So we are 10 short on scholly's at this moment. You need 22 players to start and 22 good backups with 22 "oh shit we need someone else in there now." guys. We have those numbers covered.
It's like a vortex of stupid here.
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Now, that just doesn't make any sense.
Does anything he says?
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I attribute Saturdays win to the fact that this team decided that despite all that the coaching staff was/has/is done/doing to them said "phuk off coaches, we need this win."
:blink:
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:blink:
What you just said.
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It's like a vortex of stupid here.
Even during the '07 season I stated on numerous occasions that we had at LEAST 3 years before we really made much noise. Show me where I have said anything about the '07 team not being mediocre, or where I have used them as an example of greatness. I can point to alot of times me mentioning the ULM loss as an example of embarassment. There is no way to spin that shit. That is why I called you full of shit. You took a blind shot into the dark and you missed......badly.
What are you going to say next, that I was a huge Shula supporter?
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What are you going to say next, that I was a huge Shula supporter?
You weren't?
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What are you going to say next, that I was a huge Shula supporter?
Whose ass tastes better....Saban or Shula?
Just kidding.
I do have a question about the 2007 team though.
Looking back, your 2003 recruiting class was ranked #49, but that's only because there were only 17 guys, they actually had an average of 3.03 stars. Then the 04 class was ranked #15, the 05 class #18, and the 06 class #11. In all, 99 guys were signed over those four years (plus whatever redshirts were left from 2002). So going by these respectable recruiting numbers, I'm curious as to why you say you only had two solid players on the whole team in 2007 (McClain and Smith I think you said) and had no depth, etc.
It seems more likely to me that there actually was some talent there, but they weren't being coached/utilized properly until Saban got there. And if so, that's a bit different than Saban coming in and taking scabs and making all-stars out of them.
This is an honest question, as I don't recall enough about the 2007 team or the recruits signed in the 5 years leading up to it.
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Even during the '07 season I stated on numerous occasions that we had at LEAST 3 years before we really made much noise. Show me where I have said anything about the '07 team not being mediocre, or where I have used them as an example of greatness. I can point to alot of times me mentioning the ULM loss as an example of embarassment. There is no way to spin that shit. That is why I called you full of shit. You took a blind shot into the dark and you missed......badly.
What are you going to say next, that I was a huge Shula supporter?
You are such a tool...
This is what I said that warranted you to say I'm full of shit.
And I'm saying that that is vague.
Long-term, yes, bama has sucked for way longer than Auburn. They have been mired in mediocrity since the two of us have been alive. You're right. Of course, this wasn't your position two years ago, but whatever.
Short-term, however...From year A to year B. Chizik inherited a worse team the year before, and did more with it the very next year.
All I'm sayin.
I must have forgotten how prior to 2007 you spent countless hours on message boards spreading the gospel of how mediocre at best Alabama has been for the duration of your entire life. You were proudly shouting from the rooftops about the suckage that was uat, and how it had been that way since you were born...
Or you can just make my position up, and challenge that.
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Whose ass tastes better....Saban or Shula?
Just kidding.
I do have a question about the 2007 team though.
Looking back, your 2003 recruiting class was ranked #49, but that's only because there were only 17 guys, they actually had an average of 3.03 stars. Then the 04 class was ranked #15, the 05 class #18, and the 06 class #11. In all, 99 guys were signed over those four years (plus whatever redshirts were left from 2002). So going by these respectable recruiting numbers, I'm curious as to why you say you only had two solid players on the whole team in 2007 (McClain and Smith I think you said) and had no depth, etc.
It seems more likely to me that there actually was some talent there, but they weren't being coached/utilized properly until Saban got there. And if so, that's a bit different than Saban coming in and taking scabs and making all-stars out of them.
This is an honest question, as I don't recall enough about the 2007 team or the recruits signed in the 5 years leading up to it.
I didn't follow recruiting all that closely until around 2005-2006ish. I couldn't tell you what I saw from some of those guys in HS. I can tell you what I saw on the field, though. I bet you can't come up with many names from the '06 squad off the top of your head though.
We simply didn't have the talent in the backfield. That is evident, for example, by Roy Upchurch behind a true frosh and a sophomore. Terry Grant is 4th string. So, they have been given proper time to develop and show what they can do, and its not good enough obviously.
At QB, it might be hard for me to make a case on JPW. His first year starting was Shula's last year. I do know that he looked a whole hell of a lot better in '08 than in '07, though. I think I would have to credit that to McElwain.
As far as WR, all we had was DJ Hall. Now, when our OL can actually hold their blocks and not have McElroy zipping through his reads, we have Julio, Maze (fast as hell), and Hanks who are pretty good receivers. Add in the mix that now we utilize the TE alot, and that makes for a pretty good WR corps. An upgrade from what we have, not not light years away or anything.
Our defense was sufficient. I will concede that. But, guys like Arenas, Rashad Johnson, would they be where they are now if Shula had stayed? I think not. Arenas wasn't highly recruited and Rashad Johnson was a walk-on. They blew up once Saban came to town. Arenas isn't known for being just a good kick returner anymore. Same thing with Reamer and Anders. Hell, Anders is another walk-on that is now a starter on an elite defensive unit. Donta Hightower is just a Rolando McClain clone except bigger.
Its hard to pick exactly what guys were misused and which ones were coached up. I think there is a good mix of both, FWIW.
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Whose ass tastes better....Saban or Shula?
Just kidding.
I do have a question about the 2007 team though.
Looking back, your 2003 recruiting class was ranked #49, but that's only because there were only 17 guys, they actually had an average of 3.03 stars. Then the 04 class was ranked #15, the 05 class #18, and the 06 class #11. In all, 99 guys were signed over those four years (plus whatever redshirts were left from 2002). So going by these respectable recruiting numbers, I'm curious as to why you say you only had two solid players on the whole team in 2007 (McClain and Smith I think you said) and had no depth, etc.
It seems more likely to me that there actually was some talent there, but they weren't being coached/utilized properly until Saban got there. And if so, that's a bit different than Saban coming in and taking scabs and making all-stars out of them.
This is an honest question, as I don't recall enough about the 2007 team or the recruits signed in the 5 years leading up to it.
JA those damn facts are a son of a bitch aint they? :vn:
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Or you can just make my position up, and challenge that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjE2sxCQ_rU# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjE2sxCQ_rU#)
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You are such a tool...
This is what I said that warranted you to say I'm full of shit.I must have forgotten how prior to 2007 you spent countless hours on message boards spreading the gospel of how mediocre at best Alabama has been for the duration of your entire life. You were proudly shouting from the rooftops about the suckage that was uat, and how it had been that way your whole life...
Or you can just make my position up, and challenge that.
Chizad, you are forgetting that RWS wasn't born until 2008.
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Chizad, you are forgetting that RWS wasn't born until 2008.
Actually he was born November 3, 2009 (yesterday), on the back of a turnip truck (from which he fell) on his way to his first rodeo.
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I didn't follow recruiting all that closely until around 2005-2006ish. I couldn't tell you what I saw from some of those guys in HS. I can tell you what I saw on the field, though. I bet you can't come up with many names from the '06 squad off the top of your head though.
We simply didn't have the talent in the backfield. That is evident, for example, by Roy Upchurch behind a true frosh and a sophomore. Terry Grant is 4th string. So, they have been given proper time to develop and show what they can do, and its not good enough obviously.
At QB, it might be hard for me to make a case on JPW. His first year starting was Shula's last year. I do know that he looked a whole hell of a lot better in '08 than in '07, though. I think I would have to credit that to McElwain.
As far as WR, all we had was DJ Hall. Now, when our OL can actually hold their blocks and not have McElroy zipping through his reads, we have Julio, Maze (fast as hell), and Hanks who are pretty good receivers. Add in the mix that now we utilize the TE alot, and that makes for a pretty good WR corps. An upgrade from what we have, not not light years away or anything.
Our defense was sufficient. I will concede that. But, guys like Arenas, Rashad Johnson, would they be where they are now if Shula had stayed? I think not. Arenas wasn't highly recruited and Rashad Johnson was a walk-on. They blew up once Saban came to town. Arenas isn't known for being just a good kick returner anymore. Same thing with Reamer and Anders. Hell, Anders is another walk-on that is now a starter on an elite defensive unit. Donta Hightower is just a Rolando McClain clone except bigger.
Its hard to pick exactly what guys were misused and which ones were coached up. I think there is a good mix of both, FWIW.
It's hard to follow all of that since I don't know when each guy signed (without looking it up). It just seems that a lot of the 12-2 2008 team must have been comprised of guys that were already there when Saban got there, and were a lot of the same guys that went 7-6 in 2007.
My guess is that Saban walked into more talent than you think he did in 2007. The three classes prior to Saban getting there (82 players) were, on average, the 14th ranked recruits in the country. Like all classes, there were hits and misses, but out of 82 guys ranked that high, there was talent. It just took a year to get going and his staff was much more adept at coaching the existing talent than the previous staff.
And taking a year to get going is nothing new. Carroll went 6-6 his first year, 11-2 his second. Stoops went 7-5 his first year, 13-0 his second. Tressell went 7-5 his first year, 14-0 his second. But you have to have some talent already there. Stoops performed his turn around thanks to talent like Roy Williams, Josh Heupel, Rocky Calmus, Mark Clayton, Quentin Griffin, etc. Carroll had Carson Palmer, Mike Williams, Kareem Kelly, Dallas Sartz, Winston Justice, etc. Tressell had Chris Gamble, Will Allen, Michael Jenkins, AJ Hawk, Maurice Clarett, Alex Stepanovich, etc.
Saban had the same situation if you ask me. He walked into a situation with some sleeping talent that needed some direction and some leadership. He didn't simply "take what was there and make the most of it"...he had some real talent to work with, just like those other coaches did. It just took a year to get going.
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You are such a tool...
This is what I said that warranted you to say I'm full of shit.I must have forgotten how prior to 2007 you spent countless hours on message boards spreading the gospel of how mediocre at best Alabama has been for the duration of your entire life. You were proudly shouting from the rooftops about the suckage that was uat, and how it had been that way since you were born...
Or you can just make my position up, and challenge that.
I was on the other board in October 2005, taking my lumps there, if you recall correctly. But of course, you don't, because it helps your argument if you just wish it all away. I wasn't even greatly positive in that season, because I had seen seasons prior. I'm not going to boast over one good season, unless there is a pretty good indication that its going to stay that way. You can't even remember 1 month ago, much less 4 years ago, so again, don't put words in my mouth. Less alcohol and weed, more concentration.
I did not make your position up. You made a very specific quote when you said my current position on Alabama teams of the past isn't the same as it was then, more specifically, two years ago. Then after I reply, well, you were just saying it vaguely. Now, I'm just making it all up.
Quick, what little insult are you going to open your next reply with?
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Actually he was born November 3, 2009 (yesterday), on the back of a turnip truck (from which he fell) on his way to his first rodeo.
.....at night.
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I've heard a well lubed one does not squeal.
Where did you hear that? :)