I don't care what people wear, display, salute, worship, whatever, including the Confederate Flag. My maternal grandfather's grandfather fought and survived and I am not ashamed of his service to a cause he believed was just.
The only reason - ONLY REASON - I am not totally bent about all this shit now is that the State Capitol buildings are government buildings, and they represent political subdivisions of the United States of America. Not the Confederate States. The United States. And while their purpose is to represent all citizens of their state, those citizens are citizens of the United States first. It does not seem right for a state capitol to fly any flag other than our nation and their state. Most Southern states were part of Spain, France, and England too, and none of those flags fly over state government buildings, because it would not represent allegiance to the United States.
If they want to ban t-shirts, personal flags, stickers, SCV, etc., then to hell with them all. We are all free to express ourselves as we see fit.
But government buildings are a different matter.
The flag of every nation that governed the State of Alabama during its history is flown at the state capital.
Doesn't fly over the dome, but they are on the grounds just like the Confederate flag was.
What matters more to me is Bentley being a pussy and taking it down now.
Every nation. The Confederacy was not a nation, by its very definition.
South Carolina's flies over the dome. It should come down. Sometimes is just the right time. Strike while the iron is hot and all that. Of course people who oppose the removal will call it pussification and wimping out, etc., but it needs to be done. It makes no sense. That is not South Carolina's only identity - it was a single four or five year period in a 250+ year history.
Many of us on here likely have ancestors that fought in the Civil War. And most of them probably lost. As much as I believe that the war and the Confederacy was as much (if not more) about taxation/representation, most people will never believe it. Most history books will never tell the true story. Because the winning side gets to write history. So, the side that lost finally gets it's flag taken down. It's been up a very long time. Yes, it's definitely a part of our history but we live in the territory of the side that lost.
It's thankfully a non-issue to me. It is a big issue that lunatics like Roof have made it into a symbol of hate to most people. And these people are too ignorant to understand that there are conf flag wavers out there who aren't supremacists or race baiters, that truly identify with the ideals of the Confederacy. And some do it simply because they are southern history buffs. Whatever. I'm fine with them.
Taking it down...Meh.
I only hope that my completed manifesto is much better than this moron's. I've got to get started on that.
http://www.vibe.com/2015/06/dylann-roof-manifesto/
Governor Bentley today pulled a Bruce Jenner. He became a woman. No offense to women. Bentley exposed his wrinkled gray vagina and showed it to the world.I'm with you. I've been wanting to burn this mofo down for a long time. Let's do it.
In response to a manufactured national furor Bentley ordered the Confederate flag removed from the grounds in Montgomery. What a pussy. So afraid that John Oliver might say something in his stupid British accent; so afraid that Rachel Maddow might bleat to the eleven people who watch her shitty show; so afraid that Bill Maher might have something condescending to say; so afraid that Cooper Anderson might leak a rainbow tear, the Pussy In Chief took the flag down.
I've never owned a confederate battle flag. I've never flown one. But I'm tempted to do so now.
I'm sorry Dylann Roof wrapped himself in a symbol of the Old South. But I'm sick of being denied MY heritage because it might offend somebody else or be used by a group I don't care for.
Roof wore a shirt that said Gold's Gym. Should we order them closed?
Roof wore Wolverine Boots. They must be symbols of racism.
He took pictures with a camera! Ban all photography.
LA gangsters killed more people than Roof ever thought about killing. They adopted the gear of the Oakland Raiders. We should ban all Raiders gear from being sold across this land. Malcom X's nation of Islam killed more people than Roof. All X's should be stricken.
Here's the thing about the Civil War. I studied it extensively in college. And while slavery was a part of it, the war was NEVER about slavery.
The South objected to the intrusion of the federal government into state control. That was the real war. Slavery was a part of that, but very few Southerners owned slaves. It was more about being told what to do. As a matter of fact, technological innovations would have ended slavery naturally anyway. The institution would have become inefficient and cost prohibitive.
Lincoln made the war "about slavery" as a matter of perception. He was losing the war. He was losing support. The South was on the verge of obtaining economic and military support from France and England. He needed to figure out something to keep from losing. And he chose slavery. By declaring the war to be about the freedom of slaves (which it never was) he gained the "moral high ground" and turned things in his favor.
If the South had won? We'd still be the USA, but states would have more autonomy and the federal government would have much less power over our daily lives. Frankly? That would be a better situation.
Either way, the Confederate Flag is a part of our history. Taking it down isn't going to make things magically better. People like Dylann Roof will still exist, still do crazy things. People won't like each other more or hate each other less. It's a symbolic, pussified gesture that means absolutely nothing.
Hiding from history, revising it to make it say what you think it should will never solve anything. It only makes things worse.
I'm disgusted with Bentley. I think he showed just how weak he is.
I was not raised in a racist home or environment. Living in the South, almost every White person has a small amount of racial awareness, simply beause of the numbers of negroes in this part of the country. But it is a superficial awareness. Growing up, in school, the White and black kids would make racial jokes toward each other, but all they were were jokes. Me and White friends would sometimes would watch things that would make us think that “blacks were the real racists†and other elementary thoughts like this, but there was no real understanding behind it. Probably true everywhere. Do white people really think about or have a daily awareness of race? Doubtful
The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words “black on White crime†into Google, and I have never been the same since that day. The first website I came to was the Council of Conservative Citizens. There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on White murders. I was in disbelief. At this moment I realized that something was very wrong. How could the news be blowing up the Trayvon Martin case while hundreds of these black on White murders got ignored? It's a valid question. Why the focus on that case when there are (on average) 35 murders a day in the US and the vast majority of those are committed by blacks?
From this point I researched deeper and found out what was happening in Europe. I saw that the same things were happening in England and France, and in all the other Western European countries. Again I found myself in disbelief. As an American we are taught to accept living in the melting pot, and black and other minorities have just as much right to be here as we do, since we are all immigrants. But Europe is the homeland of White people, and in many ways the situation is even worse there. From here I found out about the Jewish problem and other issues facing our race, and I can say today that I am completely racially aware. No. I don't think he was aware. Not at all
Blacks
I think it is is fitting to start off with the group I have the most real life experience with, and the group that is the biggest problem for Americans.
blacks are stupid and violent. At the same time they have the capacity to be very slick. Black people view everything through a racial lense. Thats what racial awareness is, its viewing everything that happens through a racial lense. They are always thinking about the fact that they are black. This is part of the reason they get offended so easily, and think that some thing are intended to be racist towards them, even when a White person wouldnt be thinking about race. The other reason is the Jewish agitation of the black race.
I don't know what the Jews have to do with this, that part is muddled. But (aside from his language) there is a clear and pervasive pattern of violence among blacks. We can debate the reasons for this all day -- poverty, lack of father figure, whatever -- but it is a reality. Blacks make up 11% of the population but 40% of the prison population. Incarceration rate is six times higher than any other race. A full third of all black men will be imprisoned at some point in their lives. That's appalling. 85% of crime in Chicago and Atlanta, committed by blacks.
Also don't think we can deny that blacks as a whole -- thanks to television and "activists" like Jesse and Al -- do view things through a racial prism. There is a predisposition to suspicion of bias where there often isn't any. Agitators like that keep racial tensions stirred and deny true healing in order to line their own pockets.
Black people are racially aware almost from birth, but White people on average dont think about race in their daily lives. And this is our problem. We need to and have to.
Say you were to witness a dog being beat by a man. You are almost surely going to feel very sorry for that dog. But then say you were to witness a dog biting a man. You will most likely not feel the same pity you felt for the dog for the man. Why? Because dogs are lower than men.
This same analogy applies to black and White relations. Even today, blacks are subconsciously viewed by White people are lower beings. They are held to a lower standard in general. This is why they are able to get away with things like obnoxious behavior in public. Because it is expected of them.
Modern history classes instill a subconscious White superiority complex in Whites and an inferiority complex in blacks. This White superiority complex that comes from learning of how we dominated other peoples is also part of the problem I have just mentioned. But of course I dont deny that we are in fact superior.
Okay, this is a little off the rails. You could make an argument that historically whites have done more with technology, innovation, etc. But "superiority" is a stretch. Do blacks have an "inferiority complex." Perhaps. But what I see today more than anything is pervasive white guilt. Guilt over things that didn't happen the way we've been told.
I wish with a passion that blacks were treated terribly throughout history by Whites, that every White person had an ancestor who owned slaves, that segregation was an evil an oppressive institution, and so on. Because if it was all it true, it would make it so much easier for me to accept our current situation. But it isnt true. None of it is. We are told to accept what is happening to us because of ancestors wrong doing, but it is all based on historical lies, exaggerations and myths. I have tried endlessly to think of reasons we deserve this, and I have only came back more irritated because there are no reasons.
Other than wishing for mistreatment, he's got a point here. What we've been told and taught is utterly and completely wrong. Everything we think we know about the Civil War is based on a convenient falsehood. I can understand a frustration over the corrupting of the truth.
Only a fourth to a third of people in the South owned even one slave. Yet every White person is treated as if they had a slave owning ancestor. This applies to in the states where slavery never existed, as well as people whose families immigrated after slavery was abolished. I have read hundreds of slaves narratives from my state. And almost all of them were positive. One sticks out in my mind where an old ex-slave recounted how the day his mistress died was one of the saddest days of his life. And in many of these narratives the slaves told of how their masters didnt even allowing whipping on his plantation.
True about the number of slave owners. The actual number was probably even lower than that. The treatment of white people goes to the "white guilt." I also understand the frustration that comes from feeling as if he's denied opportunities or others receive preferential treatment because of something that he had no part in.
There are numerous slave narratives that are positive, that reflect a peaceful way of life. Those are typically quashed because they don't fit the story that revisionist historians want to tell. There are also slave narratives that reflect brutal treatment. Not defending slavery at all, it's indefensible. But this isn't the only place it existed, it still exists in other countries -- African countries.
This is a confused kid who doesn't understand why we are where we are and he is angry that he feels he and his family are being punished for something they had no part in.
Segregation was not a bad thing. It was a defensive measure. Segregation did not exist to hold back negroes. It existed to protect us from them. And I mean that in multiple ways. Not only did it protect us from having to interact with them, and from being physically harmed by them, but it protected us from being brought down to their level. Integration has done nothing but bring Whites down to level of brute animals. The best example of this is obviously our school system.
Eh... The school systems have declined since integration. They've declined since prayer was removed. They've become more violent. The educational standards have essentially collapsed. Is that a result of integration or are they unrelated? This kid saw a connection.
I don't know what the Jews have to do with this, that part is muddled. But (aside from his language) there is a clear and pervasive pattern of violence among blacks. We can debate the reasons for this all day -- poverty, lack of father figure, whatever -- but it is a reality. Blacks make up 11% of the population but 40% of the prison population. Incarceration rate is six times higher than any other race. A full third of all black men will be imprisoned at some point in their lives. That's appalling. 85% of crime in Chicago and Atlanta, committed by blacks.
Fuck Bentley. The democratic left knows this flag had nothing to do with the shooting. They see it as a chance to attack the republican south. They can say that the south is Roof or whatever the shooter's name was. The fact Bentley didn't stand up for this makes me realize even more why I didn't vote for that piece of shit in the first place.
Here's the thing about the Civil War. I studied it extensively in college. And while slavery was a part of it, the war was NEVER about slavery.
Let's talk about the manifesto.
The guy was a terrible writer, but he obviously had some frustrations with today's society. The way he expressed those frustrations was very clearly wrong. But there are some things in there that probably represent what many people actually think. And sadly, he wasn't wrong about some of it.
Let me state again for the record that this kid acted in a manner that is utterly reprehensible. But the ideas that he expressed (poorly expressed) exist. They exist beneath the surface of the PC-driven exchanges we're allowed to have -- exchanges that limit the freedom of expression and essentially guarantee that no truths will be revealed and no resolutions reached.
Do you think Bentley taking down the Confederate flag or SC doing the same will make the (numerous) people like Dylann Roof go "oh, dang man. I was wrong." Do you seriously think that?
More likely people like Roof will become even more entrenched. This action will drive more people to their cause. They'll feel even more infringed upon by the people they consider beneath them. And things will just get worse.
Until we can discuss this issue without fear of retribution because one person's ideas may not be politically correct according to some random arbiter of what's allowed and what's not? Things won't ever change and there will be more Dylann Roofs -- no matter how many flags are put away.
I think one problem you run into when defending the above statement is that the declaration of causes for succession made by most Confederate states mentions slavery in their opening lines and some reiterate the "subjugation of the inferior race" throughout. Which, truth be told, is a pretty damning statement.
However, most tend to look back at history as simple definable chunks of time and forget that it was much more complex, filled with actual real people with real emotions and real lives, and was as or more complicated (and certainly more demanding) than our own. We perform no deep research when forming opinions and neglect to realize things like, as you mention, most Southerner's had no hand in slavery but were instead fighting for much deeper causes... causes I respect. I'm glad we've chosen to continue doing so for as long but I can also understand why others opinions differ.
I don't support the opinions behind those few declarations any more than the lunacy being spread right now. Terrible mistakes were made sure, as have been throughout human history, but the heritage of the South is by and large better than most and certainly better than just that. Besides, the battle flag is just that, a flag. A symbol and one we've gravitated towards as a historical reminder of a time when our ancestors said they'd rather go it alone.
But for the continually self-serving and perpetually offended hashtag generation, who haven't studied the war beyond an 8th grade history class, those first few lines are all they're ever gonna see because a) the words can fit in a twitter post or be skimmed on a facebook newsfeed b) it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
There are a lot of young white kids out there who are starting to see things this way. They did nothing to anyone, yet they are lumped into a category of oppression. As it gets even worse, these young whites will begin to lash out as the young blacks have for years. There is just one problem for society in this, there are a lot more of them than there are young blacks. Then where does this leave us as a country? First they will try to come for our guns. Then there will be a lot of law abiding citizens turning into fighting criminals. And then the real war starts...
Is this the intention of the federal government, to create a situation where they can use military force on us "for our own good"? We will have another civil war, or we will just lie down and whimper. I do not look forward to either option.
Yes, slavery was a part of the equation. But only insofar as it was the catalyst issue that defined how the North was treating the South. It was one of the rights -- the right to make our own determinations on issues -- that led to the the schism.
Yes, slavery was a part of the equation. But only insofar as it was the catalyst issue that defined how the North was treating the South. It was one of the rights -- the right to make our own determinations on issues -- that led to the the schism.I'd like to slap some people in the jaw with my schism.
I am moving to Texas, fuck this place. Oh, and just bought the last of the confederate flags and tags at the local wallmarks.
I am moving to Texas, fuck this place. Oh, and just bought the last of the confederate flags and tags at the local wallmarks.
Sorry, BF - Texas is closed. The moose out front should have toldja.
Ok. So the weird thing about all this.
My 15 year old daughter had a friend spending the night. She is essentially apolitical. Would probably trend liberal if anything. Very concerned about equality, despises anything she considers to be racist or racially biased.
She and her friend come downstairs last night seething. Did I hear what governor Bentley did? What right does he have to do that? She's looking at rebel flag bathing suits. She and her online friends are trading "solid south" memes (whatever that is) and putting confederate flags on their instaface and bookergram pages.
So while Roof's action may have had the opposite effect he intended, so too it appears does the reaction to it.
I asked her if she understood why it was taken down and what people think it represents. And her friend replies:
"It's just a piece of cloth. It didn't kill anybody. It's part of being from the South and we are just as proud to be southern as we are to be American. Nobody should take that away."
werd.
I meant closed to BF. We have enough freaks in Austin - don't need him too.
Also, this ain't stopping at just some old flag. Sure the flames will die down once the next trendy news crisis takes its place but expect the vines of this debate to spread into other areas.
I read today that the Jefferson Memorial should come down. You can't go back andwhiteneutralwash history but by God some people will try all they can.
I'll worry about that last bit as soon as hate groups start committing violence while draping themselves in Jeffersonian attire.I would buy Confederate flag condoms, if Magnum made such.
Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.
Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview.
You are not losing anything, petulant southern people.
Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.
Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview.
I would buy Confederate flag condoms, if Magnum made such.
If you read my other statement, you'll see that I agree it's hard to argue slavery wasn't a major factor in the governmental leaders' secession statements. Flags likely shouldn't be flying from the roof tops but I don't see a problem with honoring war dead in existing memorials, when most soldiers were fighting for much more than the right to maintain a way of life (slavery) they'd never even known.
So Gov't buildings aren't really my concern. It's the private sector and the ability of public opinion to be so hijacked by the internet newscycle today that gets under my skin.
I wouldn't have a problem with a decision any entity makes within its own area of influence, if it were due to having a backbone and a long held position. I have a problem with why they make knee jerk decisions like this. Why only now? Because it's playing to the lowest common denominator rather than acting like a mature leader.
This latest response isn't based on any deep-seated sense of moral necessity or justice for the downtrodden held by a Board of Directors. It's done to ride out the wave of popularity amongst those screaming loudest in order to continue making money. Business have to do what they must in order to survive but its it's utter hypocrisy.
For crying out loud, Apple has slave labor building their tech overseas in present day.
You're right, they are free to do whatever they like... but the social cost is and continued influence on the narrow-minded and more fuel to justify their gnashing of teeth. And the more effective that gnashing is, the worse it'll become.
Business sets policy on impact to its bottom line. Associating itself with a product/symbol that it feels would negatively impact profits is counterproductive...and would likely violate its obligations to shareholders.
Your beef is with the racists that besmirched the image you wish the flag had.
Correct. Which I mentioned is hypocritical at best. Apple removes a few flags while continuing to use slave labor camps in its supply chain model. No problems solved. No greater good. Just company PR and a willfully-blind and loyal following.
My thoughts extend far beyond a dispute over silly flag. There's a societal shift in the way we perceive news and are told what stories are most important to us by social media that troubles me. That and thoughts of bismerching my beef.
a mountain out of a molehill
As long as we're discussing flags, what about Minnesota's?
It, too, may fail to reflect current sensibilities.
By Judith Harrington
July 2, 2015 — 10:15am
The Minnesota state flag depicts a white man as a hardworking, rugged individualist, and an Indian riding a horse and holding a spear.
The current interest in the removal of the Confederate battle flag from public displays and store shelves provides an excellent opportunity to examine what the Minnesota state flag represents. The images on the flag are interpreted by state documents as innocuous symbols of the state’s history. A critical examination of what the flag is saying, however, should make Minnesotans reconsider what their state flag projects about their state.
The state flag of Minnesota is often something that is taken for granted. Thousands of people see the flag flying without giving it a second thought. First unfurled in 1893 (a date found on the flag), it has the state seal featured prominently in its center. The seal was based on a painting by Seth Eastman and was promoted by Gov. Henry Sibley; it did engender criticism when first used in 1858, but was not changed.
The “great symbolism†of the figures on the seal, as described by the Office of the Minnesota Secretary of State, include an American “Indian on horseback … riding due south and [representing] the Indian heritage of Minnesota. The Indian’s horse and spear and pioneer’s ax, rifle, and plow represent tools that were used for hunting and labor†(Minnesota Legislative Manual).
A close examination shows the central figure to be a white pioneer dressed in work clothes, wearing a wide-brim hat and pushing a plow. He is an iconic image of a hardworking, rugged individualist who works alone to chop the trees, plow the land and protect his home. He is looking over his shoulder at the Indian, who is riding a horse and holding a spear.
The contrast in the images of the figures is interesting: The image of the pioneer, a peaceful man who has laid down his gun and is plowing his field, is juxtaposed with the image of the Indian, who may still want to fight (his spear is at the ready) but who seems to be riding away. The pioneer/farmer is using a plow, a symbol of civilization. The white man is depicted as a “doer†who is entitled to the land, trees and water, empowered by the concept of Manifest Destiny. The Indian is the vacating tenant. A peaceful transition is suggested, but this ignores the tense and problematic history of conflict between European settlers and Indians, such as the complicated history of treaties and the Dakota War of 1862. More problematic, however, is the depiction of a racist, stereotyped Indian, who wears only a loin cloth and a feather. ...(http://stmedia.stimg.co/ows_143579337267541.jpg?w=525)
http://www.startribune.com/as-long-as-we-re-discussing-flags-what-about-minnesota-s/311320071/ (http://www.startribune.com/as-long-as-we-re-discussing-flags-what-about-minnesota-s/311320071/)
Business sets policy on impact to its bottom line. Associating itself with a product/symbol that it feels would negatively impact profits is counterproductive...and would likely violate its obligations to shareholders.
Your beef is with the racists that besmirched the image you wish the flag had.
By the same token, suppose I run a business where the presence of black employees is unsettling to my clients and has the potential to cost me business.
Why then can the government demand that I hire people of that ethnic persuasion?
By the same token, suppose I run a business where the presence of black employees is unsettling to my clients and has the potential to cost me business.
Why then can the government demand that I hire people of that ethnic persuasion?
Since that can't be a serious question, I'm not going to engage. You're not that stupid.Yep. That's about the stupidest question I've ever heard asked. So, what's the answer then? I'll just let you handle it.
Yep. That's about the stupidest question I've ever heard asked. So, what's the answer then? I'll just let you handle it.
I know you don't mean it, but here you go:I didn't understand k's scenario as being a company's inability to hire a brother but a mandate from the gov't saying he has to. I get your saying it's not related and agree, not directly anyway.
A business deciding to refrain from selling a inanimate product due to the potential reaction from its customers is so unlike that same business's inability to hire/promote a person solely because of the employee's ethnicity that the issue does not bear serious discussion.
I didn't understand k's scenario as being a company's inability to hire a brother but a mandate from the gov't saying he has to. I get your saying it's not related and agree, not directly anyway.
We have a public company deciding not to sell something based primarily on the PR factor.
Even if not directly related, the question is legitimate IMO. Why should they be able to tell me who to hire? Out tax dollars are paying for ads that promote the hiring of less qualified individuals (black lady in the ad without a college degree) based on their "life experience". WTF is that about? I'll tell you what I think it's about. It's about making a college degree less valuable, promoting the same program of hiring minorities that the Feds use, redistribution of wealth and socialism.
I don't understand why there isn't outrage re: this campaign.
Ok...so you don't get it either. That saves time.Poisoning the well doesn't actually mean that one wins the debate. I've found that it usually means someone either doesn't really know what they're talking about or they know that they only have a weak rebuttal.
I didn't understand k's scenario as being a company's inability to hire a brother but a mandate from the gov't saying he has to. I get your saying it's not related and agree, not directly anyway.
We have a public company deciding not to sell something based primarily on the PR factor.
Even if not directly related, the question is legitimate IMO. Why should they be able to tell me who to hire? Out tax dollars are paying for ads that promote the hiring of less qualified individuals (black lady in the ad without a college degree) based on their "life experience". WTF is that about? I'll tell you what I think it's about. It's about making a college degree less valuable, promoting the same program of hiring minorities that the Feds use, redistribution of wealth and socialism.
I don't understand why there isn't outrage re: this campaign.
I didn't understand k's scenario as being a company's inability to hire a brother but a mandate from the gov't saying he has to. I get your saying it's not related and agree, not directly anyway.
We have a public company deciding not to sell something based primarily on the PR factor.
Even if not directly related, the question is legitimate IMO. Why should they be able to tell me who to hire? Out tax dollars are paying for ads that promote the hiring of less qualified individuals (black lady in the ad without a college degree) based on their "life experience". WTF is that about? I'll tell you what I think it's about. It's about making a college degree less valuable, promoting the same program of hiring minorities that the Feds use, redistribution of wealth and socialism.
I don't understand why there isn't outrage re: this campaign.
Although I get what you are saying, the main difference I see is no one is making the store sell or not sell a confederate flag. All voluntary. That flag is also not a protected class like a race of person is. In the end it's just a piece of merchandise where different people have different opinions about. And last I checked it isn't outlawed legally at the state or federal level for personal purchase or owning. Are these companies cowards? That's debatable. But as Wes said there is a lot of bottom line riding on public perception and shareholders.
And there's the problem.
No, it's not.
People, left to their own devices, are a shitty majority.
You are what's wrong with America.
You are what's wrong with America.Wait. Get out of here. Wes is black?
Wait. Get out of here. Wes is black?That's right! And not only that...Mr. Wes done won the innerwebs fo the entire week with his forward thinking view of how things are instead of dwelling in the past like so many others on this site.
Clearly. Says the guy who seemingly can't leave the house without apoplectic rage.
You have a swell vocabulary counselor.He can use 'em like a sharp stick when he wants to make a point.
You have a swell vocabulary counselor.
You have a swell vocabulary counselor.
Some people around here have become so obsequious.Just as long as they don't become puerile.
I'll worry about that last bit as soon as hate groups start committing violence while draping themselves in Jeffersonian attire.
Once your symbol/flag is co-opted for the awful purposes that the confederate flag has been, then it's appropriate for the government to refuse to implicitly support the symbol further.
Private entities (Amazon/eBay/tv networks) are making business decisions that are wholly within their purview.
You are not losing anything, petulant southern people.
Students at the University of Texas at Austin have renewed their calls to remove a statue of Jefferson Davis, who served as president of the Confederacy during the Civil War, from the school's campus.
Activists have redoubled their efforts to have the statue removed in the days since the mass shooting at a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, last week. In the wake of that tragedy, a growing number of voices have demanded that South Carolina remove the Confederate flag that flies on the grounds of its Statehouse. Other petitions in Georgia, Maryland, Minnesota, Tennessee and Virginia have called for the removal or renaming of local landmarks that somehow pay tribute to the Confederacy.
The Davis statue has already been a source of controversy this year. It, along with statues of Confederate generals Robert E. Lee and Albert Sidney Johnston, was vandalized this week with graffiti reading "Black Lives Matter." The Davis statue had previously been marked in March and April as well.
Xavier Rotnofsky and Rohit Mandalapu -- president and vice president, respectively, of the UT Austin student government -- met with university President Gregory Fenves on Monday.
"We had a very productive meeting with President Fenves and are positive that there will be positive discussion and change on campus," Mandalapu told The Huffington Post.
In a statement to HuffPost, Fenves said that he plans on Wednesday to announce a committee "of students, faculty members and alumni that will discuss the future of the Jefferson Davis statue and provide a range of options for me to review."
Mandalapu and Rotnofsky listed the statue's removal as one of their platform points in their campaign and filed a resolution for its removal before they were elected.
"Statues are [a] means to memorialize and glorify the ideals and values of whomever they depict," Mandalapu told HuffPost. "Jefferson Davis was someone who vehemently supported the institution of slavery and white supremacy. That is not in line with the university's values and does not promote the ideals of a diverse and all-inclusive university."
On Sunday, the student government launched a petition to have the statue of Davis removed. As of Tuesday afternoon, the petition had received more than 2,400 signatures, including that of Rep. JoaquÃn Castro (D-Texas), according to The Texas Tribune.
"For myself, as an African-American female, I felt that not signing the petition was sitting back and watching things happen," Abigail Haile, a rising senior, told HuffPost. "If we get the statue taken down, I think that would be history made."
Mukund Rathi, a rising senior who published an op-ed about the statue in the UT Austin student newspaper this week, said he would like to see the statue removed and destroyed -- not placed in a museum, as has been suggested.
"As far as I’m concerned, I think there is no justification for the statue to be here," Rathi told HuffPost. "In light of the shooting in Charleston, we have to take seriously what that legitimacy means and what it can do."
Despite alumni and students calling for the statue to be removed, Haile said there are still people on campus fighting to keep it in place, arguing that Davis should be respected and honored for his role in history.
"His pillar was being a supporter of a slave society. That was his main focus, that's what he wanted," Haile said. "If you make one mistake, I understand that. But that's not one mistake. That's what his legacy is."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/23/university-texas-confederate-statue_n_7648100.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/23/university-texas-confederate-statue_n_7648100.html)
I love how government educated sheeple follow the liberal mantra of what the civil war was about.
But the real question is what did Colonel Angus think about slavery?He knew when they were licked down south.
Idiots call for and rally for all manner of stupid shit. This hasn't a snowball's chance in hell for all the reasons previously discussed.
No one who is being intellectually honest can read the various states' Articles of Secession and conclude that slavery was not the primary factor. The particular "state right" to which the 11 seceding states (well, 10, since Tennessee was just kind of along for the ride) objected was, in fact, the right of the northern states to prohibit the Southerners from bringing their slaves into the northern states that prohibited slavery.
If you are a surface reader, then you can follow that logic. If you understand the happenings that led up to this, then you would understand why slavery as involved at all.
How about from the mouths of babes, or Alexander Stephens if you prefer:
But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other-though last, not least: the new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions-African slavery as it exists among us-the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution....Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
Like I said, surface intellect.
It was like, all of a sudden, the south just decided to start a war. No provocation, no previous actions taken toward them. Them feds just popped up one day and got all mushy-eyed about the plight of the poor old darkies.
1:11 p.m.: Next speaker, Rudy Mills, is also raising the specter of Andrew Jackson. "Let's put up some Nazi Swastika symbols around the city. The Jewish Community will show you how to take them down."
He calls for the removal of the Fleur-de-lis symbol. "Check the history," he says. "It's also a very racist symbol."
1 p.m.: Next speaker says it's a testament to the power of white Supremacy that people think there is a debate to be had. "They can't see that it is offensive to pay homage to these people who committed genocide."
If the statues and street names don't come down "ASAP." If it doesn't happen pronto. "We are going to put people on the ground and make it very ugly."
He also invokes Iberville, the French colonialist who started European settlement in the area.
12:48 p.m.: W.C. Johnson, a black man, gives an extended prepared speech calling for the abolition of all Confederate symbols. Closes his speech by calling for the construction of monuments to Africans who "pulled whites out of caves" and lead them to civilization.
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With the current job market, it's good the lifer's at the NAACP have found a new way to keep themselves gainfully employed. First with this battle and then with finding anyone within 100 miles of Atlanta willing to work a sandblaster in this heat.Helping the illegals is fun
Welcome to the slippery slope.......the country was warned by many this would happen. Have fun letting the inmates run the asylum. Alinsky and Marx must be so proud. Their influence has turned this country into exactly the thing it was trying to get away from.
I think I'm gonna head to Belize or Costa Rica with Snags.
Welcome to the slippery slope.......the country was warned by many this would happen. Have fun letting the inmates run the asylum. Alinsky and Marx must be so proud. Their influence has turned this country into exactly the thing it was trying to get away from.
I think I'm gonna head to Belize or Costa Rica with Snags.
I warned years ago. Nobody listens.A daily regimen of lycopene is the only known cure.
It's my apoplexy.
Are y'all planning a formal wedding?
Whatever. He says Belize or Costa Rica. It's St. Martin or St. Croix or he can kiss this relationship goodbye.I know it's your childhood dream Snags but this relationship seems doomed even before the honeymoon.
I know it's your childhood dream Snags but this relationship seems doomed even before the honeymoon.
Whatever. He says Belize or Costa Rica. It's St. Martin or St. Croix or he can kiss this relationship goodbye.