Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: The Prowler on February 22, 2014, 09:45:33 PM
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Remember, about 5 months ago, how some media and certain fanbases stated that Auburn doesn't produce NFL players like they used to? All we heard was Cyrus Kouandijo this, AJ McTattoo that, uat's best team since organized sports was created, NFL team masquerading as a Collegiate team, '13 uat D = '01 Ravens + '85 Bears, etc., etc., etc.
Well, LT Greg Robinson has single handedly squashed that notion...there's a possibility that he'll be taken with one of the first two picks. Dee Ford & Tre Mason are climbing a bit on some team's draft board.
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And Kwamedreadspinokalochee is dropping like a stone...since the steroid toll on his body is coming to light.
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And Kwamedreadspinokalochee is dropping like a stone...since the steroid toll on his body is coming to light.
I haven't kept up with Kouandijo, what's coming to light?
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I haven't kept up with Kouandijo, what's coming to light?
His numbers weren't good and many teams "failed" him on the physical. They cite arthritic knee problems stemming from a bad surgery. When did he have knee surgery? I don't recall that. Nevertheless, his stock took a big hit this weekend.
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His numbers weren't good and many teams "failed" him on the physical. They cite arthritic knee problems stemming from a bad surgery. When did he have knee surgery? I don't recall that. Nevertheless, his stock took a big hit this weekend.
(http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Varsity-Blues.jpg)
"It's that DAMN HUNH's fault."
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Did Manziel show up drunk? Lots of twits about it.
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6-5 332lbs Greg Robinson:
40: 4.92
Vertical: 28.5in
Broad Jump: 9ft5in
6-3 220lbs AJ McCarron:
40: 4.94
Vertical: 28in
Broad Jump: 8ft3in
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Did Manziel show up drunk? Lots of twits about it.
Sports Pickle (satirical site) had an article titled "Johnny Manziel Blows an Impressive 0.20 on the NFL Combine Breathalyzer Test," so I assume the tweets are in reference to that article.
I highly doubt he was drunk, unless he can run a 4.63 (official time of 4.68) while inebriated. He did pretty well...#4 QB on 40 yard dash, #5 in vertical jump, #4 in broad jump, #2 in 3 cone drill, and #1 in 20 yard shuttle.
Bridgewater's probably still the best QB as far as being ready for the NFL, but Manziel didn't really disappoint. I think everyone had concluded (and still does conclude) that he will be a risk, but could have a high reward if he pans out.
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I ran a 4.09 one time while drunk.
The whiskey shits can make a fellow do superhuman things. I barely made it to the hopper in time.
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Tweet of the Day:
@AU_History: @nfldraftscout Will AJ McCarron run the 40 at combine or stick with the time he registered running to the locker room after the Auburn game?
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6-5 332lbs Greg Robinson:
40: 4.92
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad Jump: 9'5"
6-3 220lbs AJ McCarron:
40: 4.94
Vertical: 28"
Broad Jump: 8'3"
AAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, now. Al.com got the for reals. He threw "very well" and it's not like he's going to be running some high school option offense in the NFL.
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Sports Pickle (satirical site) had an article titled "Johnny Manziel Blows an Impressive 0.20 on the NFL Combine Breathalyzer Test," so I assume the tweets are in reference to that article.
I highly doubt he was drunk, unless he can run a 4.63 (official time of 4.68) while inebriated. He did pretty well...#4 QB on 40 yard dash, #5 in vertical jump, #4 in broad jump, #2 in 3 cone drill, and #1 in 20 yard shuttle.
Bridgewater's probably still the best QB as far as being ready for the NFL, but Manziel didn't really disappoint. I think everyone had concluded (and still does conclude) that he will be a risk, but could have a high reward if he pans out.
I keep hearing this about Bridgewater but all I've seen is a schedule full of patsies the last 2 years and losses to Syracuse, UConn and UCF. He didn't throw or run any at the combine. And has proclaimed he's the best qb at the draft. Personally, all of that combined is a yellow flag.
We know what Manziel is. Would anyone seriously take Teddy over JFF with the game on the line? Dude is a gamer. Bridgewater has yet to impress against anyone worth a crap. Sorry but fla isn't worth a crap. I just think many are overhyping this kid. Maybe he will pan out. But I don't see anything at this point that screams sure fire #1 pick.
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Dee Ford will not work out at combine. Medical issue.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine)
INDIANAPOLIS --Just one day after declaring himself a better pass rusher than Jadeveon Clowney and thus setting up an interesting workout battle between the two at the NFL Scouting Combine, Auburn defensive end Dee Ford has withdrawn from workouts.
According to NFL Media's Scott Hanson, medical reasons will prevent Ford from participating at the combine.
Clowney is considered the draft's top pass rusher and is expected to be drafted early in the first round. Ford said Sunday that he was tired of hearing about Clowney's impressive physical measurables, noting that he had better technique than the former South Carolina star.
Ford also said he believes Clowney and Missouri's Kony Ealy are his only "competition" in the draft among pass rushers.
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Dee Ford will not work out at combine. Medical issue.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine)
At least he didn't pus out voluntarily like the best 2 qbs evar!
Btw - most of these DL are popping off 4.9-5.1 times. Clowney just ran 4.47. Good lawd. Will probably be adjusted to a 4.5-4.55 but still. Dang.
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At least he didn't pus out voluntarily like the best 2 qbs evar!
Btw - most of these DL are popping off 4.9-5.1 times. Clowney just ran 4.47. Good lawd. Will probably be adjusted to a 4.5-4.55 but still. Dang.
That is beyond freakish for a DE.
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Dee Ford will not work out at combine. Medical issue.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000328572/article/dee-ford-will-not-work-out-at-combine)
The national narrative on twitter is that he's a thug POS that classlessly called out Clowney, and then isn't even man enough to back it up. Chickened with his tail tucked between his legs so as not to have to embarrass himself publicly.
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By the way, Dee doesn't understand why he was not allowed to compete.
They're citing a 2011 back injury being why they have to hold him out.
Seriously? It didn't prevent him from playing three years in the SEC West. It didn't prevent him from having a monster Senior Season. It didn't prevent him from being the MV-fuckin-P of the Senior Bowl less than a month ago.
I'm getting brain wave signals transmitted into my tinfoil hat that indicate a conspiracy to save Clowney from embarrassment. bottomfeeder, you gettin those same vibes? What is Infowars saying?
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The national narrative on twitter is that he's a thug POS that classlessly called out Clowney, and then isn't even man enough to back it up. Chickened with his tail tucked between his legs so as not to have to embarrass himself publicly.
He needs to learn the ways of the AJ...
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By the way, Dee doesn't understand why he was not allowed to compete.
They're citing a 2011 back injury being why they have to hold him out.
Seriously? It didn't prevent him from playing three years in the SEC West. It didn't prevent him from having a monster Senior Season. It didn't prevent him from being the MV-fudgein-P of the Senior Bowl less than a month ago.
I'm getting brain wave signals transmitted into my tinfoil hat that indicate a conspiracy to save Clowney from embarrassment. bottomfeeder, you gettin those same vibes? What is Infowars saying?
I'm wondering if it's maybe just something that developed since the surgery and there hasn't been any need to x-ray since post surgery. A disc out of place could make them overly cautious for liability reasons. It's the damn lawyers' fault, again.
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Dee was FORCED to not participate. Meanwhile...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/24/clowney-skips-on-field-drills-citing-hip-flexor/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/24/clowney-skips-on-field-drills-citing-hip-flexor/)
Clowney skips on-field drills, citing hip flexor
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 24, 2014, 10:31 AM EST
Jadeveon Clowney impressed everyone with his 40 time at the NFL Scouting Combine, but he won’t continue to impress in the on-field drills.
Clowney decided not to participate during the drills for defensive linemen. In a very brief interview with Warren Sapp of NFL Network, Clowney said he didn’t like one of the drills the rest of the defensive linemen were doing, on which they began face-down on the ground and then had to get up and high-step over and around blocking pads.
“I don’t like how they start on the ground,†Clowney said with a grin.
But starting on the ground apparently wasn’t his only problem with the drill: Clowney also sat out later drills in which players started in a three-point stance, and he then told NFL Network’s Willie McGinest that the real reason he wasn’t participating is that he has hip flexor tightness. Clowney did say he still plans to do the vertical jump and the broad jump.
It’s common for quarterbacks to sit out the passing drills at the Combine, but most defensive linemen do everything unless there’s a medical reason not to. Sapp and NFL Network’s Mike Mayock both suggested that some NFL teams may lose a little respect for Clowney for deciding to sit out while other defensive linemen are working.
This decision might play into the perception that Clowney is an amazingly gifted athlete but not much of a worker. Or NFL teams might decide that Clowney made so many big hits with pads on that they don’t particularly care if he doesn’t want to run around in shorts hitting tackling dummies.
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Clowney, the second coming of Mike Mamula.
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Clowney, the second coming of Mike Mamula.
WHO?
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WHO?
Was the first great combine workout warrior. Played DE at Boston College and was expected to be a second or third round pick. Blew everybody off the field at the combine and got drafted in the top ten by the Eagles. Largely considered a bust but his career was pretty solid.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/the-myth-of-mike-mamula/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/the-myth-of-mike-mamula/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0)
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"Officially" Clowney had a slightly better time (4.48) than De'Anthony Thomas (4.50), who beat him across the line.
(http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4047777/clowneyDAT.gif)
…
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And he was also a good yard or two ahead of Manziel (4.6) in the same simulcast fashion. I'd say it puts Clowney solidly in the 4.5 area. Although some are saying that Thomas' 40 is undervalued and not right.
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I think the most important issue that clip shows, is that Clowny was just as fast for the first ten yards. That is all a DE needs. And it is pretty damn impressive.
However, I watched him this year. He only did it 1 out of every 10 plays.
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Warren Sapp's reaction to Clowney's speed:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/02/24/34de957fcd78862e95b3bf741f546358.gif)
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I keep hearing this about Bridgewater but all I've seen is a schedule full of patsies the last 2 years and losses to Syracuse, UConn and UCF. He didn't throw or run any at the combine. And has proclaimed he's the best qb at the draft. Personally, all of that combined is a yellow flag.
We know what Manziel is. Would anyone seriously take Teddy over JFF with the game on the line? Dude is a gamer. Bridgewater has yet to impress against anyone worth a crap. Sorry but fla isn't worth a crap. I just think many are overhyping this kid. Maybe he will pan out. But I don't see anything at this point that screams sure fire #1 pick.
You have to consider who he's up against as consideration for "top QB." Blake Bortles (UCF) and Derek Carr (Fresno State) also had schedules full of patsies. Granted, I didn't watch either of them play in 2013, but I'm not aware of them being outstanding against their sub-par competition. Statistically speaking, Bortles is behind both of them quite handily. Carr is much closer to Bridgewater, but Bridgewater's raw and adjusted QBR was higher than Carr each year from 2011 to 2013, as was his passer rating in 2012 and 2013.
Then you've got McCarron. Fewer yards thrown in 2013 than the three above. Also a bad TD:INT ratio, although not as bad as Bortles. And arguably any stats that McCarron was able to put up were mostly due to being surrounded by talent.
Manziel's passing yards are about the same as Bridgewater's but his TD:INT ratio is almost as bad as Bortles. So statistically speaking, Manziel comes off as making bad decisions when on the run and slinging the ball. His number of sacks is pretty high, within 4 of Bridgewater and 2 of Bortles, so there's little difference there.
The stats have Carr, Manziel, and Bridgewater pretty close, but I think Carr gets discounted due to potentially skewed stats from a Fresno State schedule; even with his solid combine performance, I don't think he's projected to go until late in the first round or early second. I don't think Bridgewater is the clear top choice, but given that it's primarily between him and Manziel, I think most teams see Manziel as more of a risk due to his lack of size and tendency to run the ball. For an investor, that's an injury waiting to happen. When you combine this with a bad TD:INT ratio for both of the past two seasons, Manziel seems inferior to Bridgewater in many ways.
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If you're going to discount the competition of bridge water and carry you also have to discount AJ. Play two "real" games a year. Loses most of them.
When has he ever had to lead a fourth quarter comeback against a good team? Georgia? That it?
Nick Marshall did more this year than AJ has in his entire career in terms of handling adversity.
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You have to consider who he's up against as consideration for "top QB." Blake Bortles (UCF) and Derek Carr (Fresno State) also had schedules full of patsies. Granted, I didn't watch either of them play in 2013, but I'm not aware of them being outstanding against their sub-par competition. Statistically speaking, Bortles is behind both of them quite handily. Carr is much closer to Bridgewater, but Bridgewater's raw and adjusted QBR was higher than Carr each year from 2011 to 2013, as was his passer rating in 2012 and 2013.
Then you've got McCarron. Fewer yards thrown in 2013 than the three above. Also a bad TD:INT ratio, although not as bad as Bortles. And arguably any stats that McCarron was able to put up were mostly due to being surrounded by talent.
Manziel's passing yards are about the same as Bridgewater's but his TD:INT ratio is almost as bad as Bortles. So statistically speaking, Manziel comes off as making bad decisions when on the run and slinging the ball. His number of sacks is pretty high, within 4 of Bridgewater and 2 of Bortles, so there's little difference there.
The stats have Carr, Manziel, and Bridgewater pretty close, but I think Carr gets discounted due to potentially skewed stats from a Fresno State schedule; even with his solid combine performance, I don't think he's projected to go until late in the first round or early second. I don't think Bridgewater is the clear top choice, but given that it's primarily between him and Manziel, I think most teams see Manziel as more of a risk due to his lack of size and tendency to run the ball. For an investor, that's an injury waiting to happen. When you combine this with a bad TD:INT ratio for both of the past two seasons, Manziel seems inferior to Bridgewater in many ways.
Bridgewater against the teams Manziel played? I don't think we'd even be hearing Bridgewaters name much.
Hard to compare td to int ratios between 3 guys that have played such different levels of competition.
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http://youtu.be/WuPysijZxcY (http://youtu.be/WuPysijZxcY)
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Bridgewater against the teams Manziel played? I don't think we'd even be hearing Bridgewaters name much.
If Louisville played those teams? No, we probably wouldn't. But if Bridgewater played at Texas A&M against those teams? I'm not Miss Cleo, but I'd venture to guess that he'd still be in the running for best QB. I mean, really...we're talking about Blake Bortles and AJ McCarron as potentially being in the top 5 for 2014. This is no QB class of 2011.
With that being said, I agree that it's difficult to look at stats alone when you're dealing with players from two different levels of competition. However, one only needs to compare the playing styles to understand why Bridgewater could conceivably be taken before Manziel. Manziel throws on the run often due to his tendency to want to break out of the pocket, and it has resulted in many bad decisions. Bridgewater shows much more patience and efficiency in the pocket while operating in a pro style offense. Lesser competition, sure, but certainly fewer mistakes and a consistent improvement of completion percentages over three years.
I also agree that Bridgewater's decision not to participate in hardly anything at the combine is slightly disappointing, but everything else I've heard about the guy indicates that he has leadership skills and is a team player. Meanwhile, there's Johnny "Money" Manziel, who has been the epitome of egotistical and childish antics. He's a young guy, and so I write off a lot of what he does as inexperience and immaturity, but that's exactly the reason why a team may not want to take him. There's more than just raw talent to take into consideration.
Again, I don't think Bridgewater is the clear choice here, but I don't see how it would be unfathomable that he's taken over Manziel.
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If Louisville played those teams? No, we probably wouldn't. But if Bridgewater played at Texas A&M against those teams? I'm not Miss Cleo, but I'd venture to guess that he'd still be in the running for best QB. I mean, really...we're talking about Blake Bortles and AJ McCarron as potentially being in the top 5 for 2014. This is no QB class of 2011.
With that being said, I agree that it's difficult to look at stats alone when you're dealing with players from two different levels of competition. However, one only needs to compare the playing styles to understand why Bridgewater could conceivably be taken before Manziel. Manziel throws on the run often due to his tendency to want to break out of the pocket, and it has resulted in many bad decisions. Bridgewater shows much more patience and efficiency in the pocket while operating in a pro style offense. Lesser competition, sure, but certainly fewer mistakes and a consistent improvement of completion percentages over three years.
I also agree that Bridgewater's decision not to participate in hardly anything at the combine is slightly disappointing, but everything else I've heard about the guy indicates that he has leadership skills and is a team player. Meanwhile, there's Johnny "Money" Manziel, who has been the epitome of egotistical and childish antics. He's a young guy, and so I write off a lot of what he does as inexperience and immaturity, but that's exactly the reason why a team may not want to take him. There's more than just raw talent to take into consideration.
Again, I don't think Bridgewater is the clear choice here, but I don't see how it would be unfathomable that he's taken over Manziel.
And that's my issue. He has said it and the pundits have said it - he's the clear choice. I just dont agree with that.
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So did he come out to make sure he got drafted?
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/monday-s-combine-winner-and-losers-who-is-this-man-022414 (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/monday-s-combine-winner-and-losers-who-is-this-man-022414)
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"Sam didn't do anything to prove his doubters wrong on Monday. He ran a 4.91-second 40-yard dash, jumped just 25.5 inches in the vertical and 9-foot-6 in the broad jump. He also proved to have stiff hips, even without pads on in defensive line drills. Players have done worse in the combine and still had solid NFL careers, but Sam's performance was among the worst of the year so far."
Sounds like most of the guys must've been wearing spandex.
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"Sam didn't do anything to prove his doubters wrong on Monday. He ran a 4.91-second 40-yard dash, jumped just 25.5 inches in the vertical and 9-foot-6 in the broad jump. He also proved to have stiff hips, even without pads on in defensive line drills. Players have done worse in the combine and still had solid NFL careers, but Sam's performance was among the worst of the year so far."
Sounds like most of the guys must've been wearing spandex.
Now you are gay bashing. And that is what's wrong with the NFL. He will not get drafted high because NFL teams think like you. He is gonna sue!
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"Sam didn't do anything to prove his doubters wrong on Monday. He ran a 4.91-second 40-yard dash, jumped just 25.5 inches in the vertical and 9-foot-6 in the broad guy jump. He also proved to have stiff hips, even without pads on in defensive line drills. Players have done worse in the combine and still had solid NFL careers, but Sam's performance was among the worst of the year so far."
Sounds like most of the guys must've been wearing spandex.
:homo:
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:homo:
I think they should give him a break on the stiff hips part. I'm surprised that he's even able to stand erect after taking all of the poundings this season.
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Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?
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Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?
Prolly because she lives in England...racists.
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Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?
By having better defensive stats?
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Then how, exactly, did he win gay SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?
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Heard today that Clowney had one sack in the last 8+ games.
Lemonier...table of one. Paging Lemonier.
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I think they should give him a break on the stiff hips part. I'm surprised that he's even able to stand erect after taking all of the poundings this season.
Maybe even a few high-low double-teams?
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Heard today that Clowney had one sack in the last 8+ games.
That homo linebacker from Missouri had more than that (although his sack total included the ones he made off the field).
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By having better defensive stats?
Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?
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Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?
A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.
First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.
He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.
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A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.
First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.
He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.
Then Dee Ford or other better D-linemen got robbed. SEC DPOY used to actually mean something. Should not just be stats alone.
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Then how, exactly, did he win SEC defensive player of the year over Dee Ford?
I believe he scored higher in the evening gown competition
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I believe he scored higher in the evening gown competition
Which was total bullshift. I thought the sequins were overdone and distracting.
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A closer look at his stats game by game reveals stat padding against inferior competition. He was a non factor in the seccg.
First five games of the year he had 9 of his 11 sacks against the likes of Indiana, Vandy, Murray state, Arky State and Florida. The last 5 games against teams like Georgia, Auburn, A&M, okl state and SCe he had all of 1.5 sacks.
He's a decent player but he showed his caliber against quality linemen and offenses.
Michael Sam didn't have 9 sacks by the fifth game of the year, Florida was the seventh game of the year, and 4.5 of Sam's 10.5 sacks came from Florida, South Carolina, and A&M...
Anyhow, of Dee Ford's 8.5 sacks (two less than Michael Sam), 4 came from Ole Miss, Western Carolina, and Florida Atlantic. So just like Sam, approximately half of his sacks came from relatively weak teams.
Similarly, when Ford played the likes of Georgia, Missouri, Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, and Mississippi State, he had all of 1.5 sacks.
Plus sacks aren't the only stats to consider. Sam had 17 more tackles. Ford has 2 tackles per game against teams like Western Carolina and Tennessee, or 3 against Ole Miss, but you assert that Sam's stats are padded because he got more tackles against lesser teams (7 against Murray State, 5 against Arkansas State) and still had good games against better teams (5 against South Carolina, 5 against A&M, 3 against Auburn).
I'm not arguing that Sam is light years ahead of Ford by any means. Nor am I saying that Sam is better than Ford if you were to match the two against the same teams throughout the year. But when it comes to awarding a defensive player of the year, should you not look at their stats? Sure, there are other intangibles to take into account, but the stats go a long way.
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Which he earned by being an above average D player yet he is stinking it up in the combine? SEC and Defense in the same sentence usually means bad mofo. My point is that to win that award, he had to have been better than good at some point in the last year. What happened between then and now other than exiting the closet to make his play suffer to the point where he is already being called a bust?
I don't know whether anyone else in the SEC had better stats than Sam, but like my reply to GH mentioned, the stat comparison between Sam and Ford is pretty close; his numbers weren't accurate. Neither player is light years ahead of the other such that one is clearly a "bad mofo," and the other is just a fag.
If there's a player who had clearly better stats than Sam, then yes, it was a travesty that he got SEC DPOY. But if you're putting Ford up there as the evidence of Sam not being worthy of the award? I don't see it.
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The fact Jake Holland didn't win DPOTY is a travesty and the award means nothing to me.
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The fact Jake Holland didn't win DPOTY is a travesty and the award means nothing to me.
Fact.
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Michael Sam didn't have 9 sacks by the fifth game of the year, Florida was the seventh game of the year, and 4.5 of Sam's 10.5 sacks came from Florida, South Carolina, and A&M...
Anyhow, of Dee Ford's 8.5 sacks (two less than Michael Sam), 4 came from Ole Miss, Western Carolina, and Florida Atlantic. So just like Sam, approximately half of his sacks came from relatively weak teams.
Similarly, when Ford played the likes of Georgia, Missouri, Alabama, Tennessee, LSU, and Mississippi State, he had all of 1.5 sacks.
Plus sacks aren't the only stats to consider. Sam had 17 more tackles. Ford has 2 tackles per game against teams like Western Carolina and Tennessee, or 3 against Ole Miss, but you assert that Sam's stats are padded because he got more tackles against lesser teams (7 against Murray State, 5 against Arkansas State) and still had good games against better teams (5 against South Carolina, 5 against A&M, 3 against Auburn).
I'm not arguing that Sam is light years ahead of Ford by any means. Nor am I saying that Sam is better than Ford if you were to match the two against the same teams throughout the year. But when it comes to awarding a defensive player of the year, should you not look at their stats? Sure, there are other intangibles to take into account, but the stats go a long way.
OK, my numbers were a bit off (posted from phone), but you get the drift. He stock piled his stats.
And I haven't once advocated for Dee Ford to be SEC D POY. Ford did however seem to get better as the year went on. And truly showed up in the seccg, bcscg and the sr bowl - where he was MVP. Those 3 are hard to ignore. Does Sam have anything of those? When the game meant something, was on the line - against a quality offense?
My point was answering TW's question. Sam won the award on stats mainly. 11.5 sacks looks stout...but what Ford did against Mizzou, FSU and in the Sr bowl is more impressive. If were speaking from an NFL prospect point of view especially.
I also think Clowney and Moseley are up there. They don't have the stats, but the eye test still says they are top notch. I think there is a fine line with stats and intangibles, and we tend to lean too heavy to the stats.
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The fact Jake Holland didn't win DPOTY is a travesty and the award means nothing to me.
If Jake Holland DID win the DPOTY, the award would mean nothing to a lot more people. Or pretty much everyone.
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If Jake Holland DID win the DPOTY, the award would mean nothing to a lot more people. Or pretty much everyone.
Why do you hate State Farm?
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Why do you hate State Farm?
She sounds hideous.
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She sounds hideous.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/saniflush/jakeholland_zps0775b082.jpg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflRbv3HA0E#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflRbv3HA0E#ws)
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d58/saniflush/jakeholland_zps0775b082.jpg)
Picture would be more realistic if he was on his back and missed picking up the phone.
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OK, my numbers were a bit off (posted from phone), but you get the drift. He stock piled his stats.
As did Ford arguably. Most tackles in a game? 6, against Mississippi State. Second most? 4, against Florida Atlantic. He didn't record more than 2 sacks in a game, recorded two sacks in a game only twice, and one of them was against Ole Miss.
Again, I'm not saying Sam is fan-fucking-tastic...just that Ford is also not fan-fucking-tastic when compared to Sam, and that both of their stats enjoyed boosts from crappy teams.
And I haven't once advocated for Dee Ford to be SEC D POY.
That was more in response to TW's post asking why Sam got SEC DPOY, but Ford didn't.
Ford did however seem to get better as the year went on. And truly showed up in the seccg, bcscg and the sr bowl - where he was MVP. Those 3 are hard to ignore. Does Sam have anything of those? When the game meant something, was on the line - against a quality offense?
SEC DPOY was announced on December 9, 2013. Senior Bowl was after that. BSCCG was after that. SECCG was two days before that, but I'm assuming they voted prior to the SECCG.
Regardless, Sam had the same number of tackles in the SECCG and bowl game as Ford did in the SECCG and BSCCG. Ford had 0.5 sacks in the SECCG, Sam had none. Ford had 2 sacks in the BCSCG, Sam had 1. But are you really going to ignore the overall season because Ford got 1.5 more sacks in the last two games of the season? Ford makes some impressive plays later in the season, and we should ignore the fact that he didn't record more than 3 tackles in 83% of the games he played? The award is for the defensive player of the year, not "best player during a few games near the end of the season."
I also think Clowney and Moseley are up there. They don't have the stats, but the eye test still says they are top notch. I think there is a fine line with stats and intangibles, and we tend to lean too heavy to the stats.
Meh. Clowney is a beast, no doubt, but I am absolutely against giving a player an award simply because he has athletic prowess. I understand the various reasons why Clowney didn't perform, but you just can not consider him for a defensive award if he didn't perform well defensively. In my mind, it's like handing out an award for highest scoring player in basketball based on the fact that he could have scored a lot, but in reality didn't.
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As did Ford arguably. Most tackles in a game? 6, against Mississippi State. Second most? 4, against Florida Atlantic. He didn't record more than 2 sacks in a game, recorded two sacks in a game only twice, and one of them was against Ole Miss.
Again, I'm not saying Sam is fan-fucking-tastic...just that Ford is also not fan-fucking-tastic when compared to Sam, and that both of their stats enjoyed boosts from crappy teams.
That was more in response to TW's post asking why Sam got SEC DPOY, but Ford didn't.
SEC DPOY was announced on December 9, 2013. Senior Bowl was after that. BSCCG was after that. SECCG was two days before that, but I'm assuming they voted prior to the SECCG.
Regardless, Sam had the same number of tackles in the SECCG and bowl game as Ford did in the SECCG and BSCCG. Ford had 0.5 sacks in the SECCG, Sam had none. Ford had 2 sacks in the BCSCG, Sam had 1. But are you really going to ignore the overall season because Ford got 1.5 more sacks in the last two games of the season? Ford makes some impressive plays later in the season, and we should ignore the fact that he didn't record more than 3 tackles in 83% of the games he played? The award is for the defensive player of the year, not "best player during a few games near the end of the season."
Meh. Clowney is a beast, no doubt, but I am absolutely against giving a player an award simply because he has athletic prowess. I understand the various reasons why Clowney didn't perform, but you just can not consider him for a defensive award if he didn't perform well defensively. In my mind, it's like handing out an award for highest scoring player in basketball based on the fact that he could have scored a lot, but in reality didn't.
Sam didn't play in the BCSCG, so your argument is void...also, Dee Ford rotated with atleast two other DEs throughout every game.
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Sam didn't play in the BCSCG, so your argument is void...also, Dee Ford rotated with atleast two other DEs throughout every game.
Ewwwwwww. Hear that? That's the Prowler coming down off the top rope and slamming VV to the floor. Wham!
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Ewwwwwww. Hear that? That's the Prowler coming down off the top rope and slamming VV to the floor. Wham!
He's Scott Hall. And he just flicked that toothpick in Eric Bischoff's face. Hey YO.
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Sam didn't play in the BCSCG, so your argument is void...also, Dee Ford rotated with atleast two other DEs throughout every game.
Sorry, meant Sam's bowl game. The stats for the BCSCG and bowl game are irrelevant to the discussion anyhow, as they occurred after voting for SEC DPOY.
As far as the rotation, you're typically not going to rotate a "bad ass mofo" DE enough to significantly affect his stats. If your claim is that he's getting that much less playing time due to the rotation, then it suggests he's not the clearly superior player on the team, much less the SEC.
Aside from that, Missouri has a similar rotation. Markus Golden, Kony Ealy, and Shane Ray got significant playing time and put up good stats, and Brayden Burnett was also in on the rotation, although he got less playing time.
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Sorry, meant Sam's bowl game. The stats for the BCSCG and bowl game are irrelevant to the discussion anyhow, as they occurred after voting for SEC DPOY.
As far as the rotation, you're typically not going to rotate a "bad ass mofo" DE enough to significantly affect his stats. If your claim is that he's getting that much less playing time due to the rotation, then it suggests he's not the clearly superior player on the team, much less the SEC.
Aside from that, Missouri has a similar rotation. Markus Golden, Kony Ealy, and Shane Ray got significant playing time and put up good stats, and Brayden Burnett was also in on the rotation, although he got less playing time.
It has nothing to do with being a "superior player" and everything to do with Coach Garner rotating the Entire DL, like he has always done. When the white guy is playing in the front four...it means you're in atleast the 3rd set of DEs (Craig Sanders).
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It has nothing to do with being a "superior player" and everything to do with Coach Garner rotating the Entire DL, like he has always done. When the white guy is playing in the front four...it means you're in atleast the 3rd set of DEs (Craig Sanders).
Point being, Missouri rotates the DEs as well, and Sam was sharing significant time with three other DEs, vs. your assertion that Ford rotates with "at least two other DEs."
Again, I'm not stating that Sam was the clear SEC DPOY above every other single player, or that he's some beast like Clowney, but claiming that Ford should get SEC DPOY isn't supported by the stats. You can claim that he rotated with other DEs, but so did Sam. You can claim that Sam had weak opponents that helped pad stats, but so did Ford. You can claim that there were some games against quality opponents where Sam didn't perform well, but those games existed for Ford as well. There isn't really much of an excuse to explain away why Ford has fewer stats than Sam in most categories for 2013.
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For the record, Counselor:
Then Dee Ford or other better D-linemen got robbed. SEC DPOY used to actually mean something. Should not just be stats alone.
I was merely citing Dee Ford (US version) as an example of a superior defensive player. I chose him not as the be-all-end-all but rather because I am an Auburn homer and will tend to use AU players as my first choice. There were obviously better defensive players than Dee Ford over the season as a whole, Moseley being one - my point was that Sam apparently did not deserve the award, as the combine is proving.
Dee not only rotated, but had some of the biggest defensive plays of the year for Auburn on the biggest stage, Georgia and Turds being two. All of that coupled with his steady improvement over the year should have made him a better candidate than Sam when you look beyond the numbers. The QB record for most passing yards in a game is usually held by some Div II or III guy for the same reason that Sam's stats looked so good.
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I was merely citing Dee Ford (US version) as an example of a superior defensive player. I chose him not as the be-all-end-all but rather because I am an Auburn homer and will tend to use AU players as my first choice. There were obviously better defensive players than Dee Ford over the season as a whole, Moseley being one - my point was that Sam apparently did not deserve the award, as the combine is proving.
Superior player generally? Possibly. Superior performance in 2013? Doesn't appear to be. Clowney's arguably superior over both of them generally, but I'm not giving him SEC DPOY just because he is usually better or should be better. It's an award based on their performance for the year...if they don't perform, they don't win.
As far as combine performance goes, maybe he had a bad day. Doesn't refute what he did or didn't do during the season, or what he will or won't do in the future. Plenty of players have had amazing combine performances and turned out to be a bust. Plenty of players have failed to impress at the combine and turned out to be a stud. One day does not a career make.
Dee not only rotated, but had some of the biggest defensive plays of the year for Auburn on the biggest stage, Georgia and Turds being two. All of that coupled with his steady improvement over the year should have made him a better candidate than Sam when you look beyond the numbers. The QB record for most passing yards in a game is usually held by some Div II or III guy for the same reason that Sam's stats looked so good.
Sam rotated as well, so I don't see why this continues to be brought up as a defense of Ford.
As far as Ford having "big plays" against Georgia and Alabama, again, the award is based on performance for the year, not just a few games or a few plays. And although there may have been a handful of plays in those two games that were crucial to winning, look at his overall performance for those two games: 2 tackles and 1 sack.
Also, there wasn't "steady improvement" by Ford over the course of the year. 3 tackles against Arkansas, 2 tackles against Tennessee, 1 tackle against Georgia, 1 tackle against Alabama...that's a decline over the last four games of the regular season. It's a defensive player's job to make tackles, sacks, interceptions, etc. Those appear in the stats. If you don't do a good job defensively, the stats reflect that.
Did he improve his play style or tenacity? Maybe, but if you don't make plays defensively that show up in the stats, then how do you win defensive player of the year? It'd be like giving an RB offensive player of the year because he showed tenacity and physicality against larger defensive linemen when executing his runs, but wasn't actually able to produce yards or score points.
As far as Div II and Div III players having awesome stats, I wasn't aware Sam was in Div II or III. That argument doesn't really apply here.
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Point being, Missouri rotates the DEs as well, and Sam was sharing significant time with three other DEs, vs. your assertion that Ford rotates with "at least two other DEs."
Again, I'm not stating that Sam was the clear SEC DPOY above every other single player, or that he's some beast like Clowney, but claiming that Ford should get SEC DPOY isn't supported by the stats. You can claim that he rotated with other DEs, but so did Sam. You can claim that Sam had weak opponents that helped pad stats, but so did Ford. You can claim that there were some games against quality opponents where Sam didn't perform well, but those games existed for Ford as well. There isn't really much of an excuse to explain away why Ford has fewer stats than Sam in most categories for 2013.
DEs:
LaDarius Owens
Nosa Eguae (DE & DT)
Kenneth Carter (DE & DT)
Elijah Daniel
Keymiya Harrell
Carl Lawson
Gimel President
Craig Sanders
All, along with Dee Ford, rotated at the DE positions, with two also rotating at the DT positions.
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Listen VV just because you are defending Sam doesn't mean he is going to let you do him in the butt.
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Sam didn't play in the BCSCG, so your argument is void...also, Dee Ford rotated with atleast two other DEs throughout every game.
The term butt hurt comes to mind for some reason.
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The term butt hurt comes to mind for some reason.
:rimshot:
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DEs:
LaDarius Owens
Nosa Eguae (DE & DT)
Kenneth Carter (DE & DT)
Elijah Daniel
Keymiya Harrell
Carl Lawson
Gimel President
Craig Sanders
All, along with Dee Ford, rotated at the DE positions, with two also rotating at the DT positions.
Elijah Daniel was a freshman who recorded a whopping 8 tackles for the year. Gimel President was a redshirt freshman who recorded a whopping 3 tackles for the year. Keymiya Harrell was a redshirt sophomore who recorded a whopping 2 tackles for the year. You're really reaching here to try to claim that these guys rotated in such a manner that they took significant playing time away from Ford. I only referenced Missouri DEs who got significant playing time and were clearly part of a rotation. I could probably go pull some names of freshmen players who had less than 10 tackles on the season, but that doesn't make them part of a regular rotation.
LaDarious Owens? Legitimately rotated as DE. Craig Sanders? Legitimately rotated as DE. Carl Lawson? Legitimately rotated as DE. Nosa Eguae? Legitimately rotated as DE, but also spent time playing as DT, so he didn't cut into Ford's playing time as much as the other three. But those are three DEs and one DE/DT rotating with Ford, just like Sam had three DEs rotating with him (Golden, Ealy, and Ray), plus a fourth redshirt senior DE (Burnett) who at least recorded 12 tackles for the season. I'd hardly call Burnett part of a "regular" rotation of DEs, but he played more than Daniel, President, and Harrell.
As far as the DE/DT players, I have no clue whether Missouri had a similar scheme to stick DTs at DE. More often than not, this is largely a matter of defensive packages, and not necessarily a regular rotation. Taking that into consideration, it's likely that Missouri also rotated DTs at DE, so this is mostly irrelevant. Especially when you name a guy like Carter who is 280 pounds and is not likely to be a regular part of the DE rotation, but moreso part of the DT rotation, just as AuburnTigers.com indicates.
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Listen VV just because you are defending Sam doesn't mean he is going to let you do him in the butt.
Duh...that's why I want him to do me in the butt.
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Elijah Daniel was a freshman who recorded a whopping 8 tackles for the year. Gimel President was a redshirt freshman who recorded a whopping 3 tackles for the year. Keymiya Harrell was a redshirt sophomore who recorded a whopping 2 tackles for the year. You're really reaching here to try to claim that these guys rotated in such a manner that they took significant playing time away from Ford. I only referenced Missouri DEs who got significant playing time and were clearly part of a rotation. I could probably go pull some names of freshmen players who had less than 10 tackles on the season, but that doesn't make them part of a regular rotation.
LaDarious Owens? Legitimately rotated as DE. Craig Sanders? Legitimately rotated as DE. Carl Lawson? Legitimately rotated as DE. Nosa Eguae? Legitimately rotated as DE, but also spent time playing as DT, so he didn't cut into Ford's playing time as much as the other three. But those are three DEs and one DE/DT rotating with Ford, just like Sam had three DEs rotating with him (Golden, Ealy, and Ray), plus a fourth redshirt senior DE (Burnett) who at least recorded 12 tackles for the season. I'd hardly call Burnett part of a "regular" rotation of DEs, but he played more than Daniel, President, and Harrell.
As far as the DE/DT players, I have no clue whether Missouri had a similar scheme to stick DTs at DE. More often than not, this is largely a matter of defensive packages, and not necessarily a regular rotation. Taking that into consideration, it's likely that Missouri also rotated DTs at DE, so this is mostly irrelevant. Especially when you name a guy like Carter who is 280 pounds and is not likely to be a regular part of the DE rotation, but moreso part of the DT rotation, just as AuburnTigers.com indicates.
Like I said, ALL of those players played and rotated along with Dee Ford. Don't take production as a reflection of playing time either. You also have no idea if Missouri rotated the DEs as much, nor do you have no idea if they rotated DTs in place of the DEs, therefore you can't use that analogy. I can though, because I know for a fact (watched it with my own two eyes) that the DEs at Auburn all rotated and two of them were also used as DTs.
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It's obvious that VV isn't really capable of effectively justifying Sam over Ford. He just likes the way Sam pursues from the back side and can take a hard lick.
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In 1813 Thomas Jefferson wrote a recently discovered letter to the Five Forks Methodists in what is now Maine where he addressed this subject.
The letter reads in part:
...when discourse regarding superior play is undertaken it must follow that such discourse is by nature bound to be subjective, restricted by the personal predjudices of mortal man and influenced by their vagaries. Mere statistical relationships cannot fully define the greatness of a man. One must take into consideration his competition, his peers, the relative performance of others in his same capacity and the opportunities his position allowed. No two shall ever fully agree on these variables, therefore consensus can rarely be reached. Each then is right in his analysis so long as a case with relative merit can be made. And oh, by the way? I carved the Moses statue and super glued it to the Supreme Court. If I'd known people were going to misinterpret what I meant as a simple preventative measure to disallow a papal king and use it to make children cry by ripping nativity scenes out of public buildings, I would have written it differently so the idiots would make no mistake as to my intent."
Madison, Washington, Hamilton and Nicholas Cage all penned letters of agreement.
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In 1813 Thomas Jefferson wrote a recently discovered letter to the Five Forks Methodists in what is now Maine where he addressed this subject.
The letter reads in part:
...when discourse regarding superior play is undertaken it must follow that such discourse is by nature bound to be subjective, restricted by the personal predjudices of mortal man and influenced by their vagaries. Mere statistical relationships cannot fully define the greatness of a man. One must take into consideration his competition, his peers, the relative performance of others in his same capacity and the opportunities his position allowed. No two shall ever fully agree on these variables, therefore consensus can rarely be reached. Each then is right in his analysis so long as a case with relative merit can be made. And oh, by the way? I carved the Moses statue and super glued it to the Supreme Court. If I'd known people were going to misinterpret what I meant as a simple preventative measure to disallow a papal king and use it to make children cry by ripping nativity scenes out of public buildings, I would have written it differently so the idiots would make no mistake as to my intent."
Madison, Washington, Hamilton and Nicholas Cage all penned letters of agreement.
Do you have a link?
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In 1813 Thomas Jefferson wrote a recently discovered letter to the Five Forks Methodists in what is now Maine where he addressed this subject.
The letter reads in part:
...when discourse regarding superior play is undertaken it must follow that such discourse is by nature bound to be subjective, restricted by the personal predjudices of mortal man and influenced by their vagaries. Mere statistical relationships cannot fully define the greatness of a man. One must take into consideration his competition, his peers, the relative performance of others in his same capacity and the opportunities his position allowed. No two shall ever fully agree on these variables, therefore consensus can rarely be reached. Each then is right in his analysis so long as a case with relative merit can be made. And oh, by the way? I carved the Moses statue and super glued it to the Supreme Court. If I'd known people were going to misinterpret what I meant as a simple preventative measure to disallow a papal king and use it to make children cry by ripping nativity scenes out of public buildings, I would have written it differently so the idiots would make no mistake as to my intent."
Madison, Washington, Hamilton and Nicholas Cage all penned letters of agreement.
:thumsup:
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Like I said, ALL of those players played and rotated along with Dee Ford. Don't take production as a reflection of playing time either.
If a player is good enough to spend more time playing in the rotation, the stats generally reflect that.
But even if you don't want to accept that general premise and still want to argue that freshmen and sophomores were prominently featured in the rotation, then you've still got a dilemma to overcome in your argument: If Auburn is playing a freshman DE a significant enough amount of time to impact Ford's playing, then you don't have any standout DEs that should even be considered for SEC DPOY. You're defeating the "Ford for SEC DPOY" argument by suggesting the freshmen get as much playing time or any significant amount of playing time.
You also have no idea if Missouri rotated the DEs as much, nor do you have no idea if they rotated DTs in place of the DEs, therefore you can't use that analogy. I can though, because I know for a fact (watched it with my own two eyes) that the DEs at Auburn all rotated and two of them were also used as DTs.
Did you clock the amount of time they were in? Got comparisons to the amount of time Ford played? If not, then you can't argue that this alleged rotation of freshmen and sophomores who had a handful of tackles was the reason for diminishing Ford's stats.
Aside from that, you also don't know what Missouri's DEs and DTs did, therefore you also can't argue that Sam has better stats because Missouri doesn't rotate DEs and DTs, but Auburn does. Again, defeating your own argument. It's not a legitimate analogy if you don't know the attributes of both subjects being compared.
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Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head.
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Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head.
Do you think he'd let me turn it on full blast and shove it in my butt?
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If a player is good enough to spend more time playing in the rotation, the stats generally reflect that.
But even if you don't want to accept that general premise and still want to argue that freshmen and sophomores were prominently featured in the rotation, then you've still got a dilemma to overcome in your argument: If Auburn is playing a freshman DE a significant enough amount of time to impact Ford's playing, then you don't have any standout DEs that should even be considered for SEC DPOY. You're defeating the "Ford for SEC DPOY" argument by suggesting the freshmen get as much playing time or any significant amount of playing time.
Did you clock the amount of time they were in? Got comparisons to the amount of time Ford played? If not, then you can't argue that this alleged rotation of freshmen and sophomores who had a handful of tackles was the reason for diminishing Ford's stats.
Aside from that, you also don't know what Missouri's DEs and DTs did, therefore you also can't argue that Sam has better stats because Missouri doesn't rotate DEs and DTs, but Auburn does. Again, defeating your own argument. It's not a legitimate analogy if you don't know the attributes of both subjects being compared.
Dude....it's not a court room.
This was a real simple premise. Tw asked why Sam won the award despite the fact the he looks inferior in almost all aspects. And my take is that is was the stats. And like you said, the fact that Fords best performances came after the award was voted on. It's not really a debate on who is better so much as it is - although someone could have been better why did Sam win it anyway? And I still stand by what I said. How a player can win an award can be the result of many factors and very circumstantial. I think that was the case here. Stats and timing were everything. Whether Sam was better or not was all decided on both of those factors.
And then there's Clowneys laziness that got in the way too. And Mosely being a bit underwhelming in 2013.
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Dude....it's not a court room.
Logic applies everywhere.
This was a real simple premise. Tw asked why Sam won the award despite the fact the he looks inferior in almost all aspects.
Inferior based on a one day performance at a combine? He can (and did) look shitty on combine day, but that doesn't change what he did during the 2013 season. The award was not "Most Athletically Talented Player Who Likely Will Have a More Fruitful Career in the Future." It was SEC DPOY for 2013.
And my take is that is was the stats. And like you said, the fact that Fords best performances came after the award was voted on. It's not really a debate on who is better so much as it is - although someone could have been better why did Sam win it anyway?
Someone may have been better statistically. Someone may have been better in some way other than statistics (although I still argue that statistics go a long way, because you can't be the best defensive player if you're not making defensive plays, e.g., tackles, TFLs, sacks, etc.). But advocating Ford as that "someone" for 2013? I personally don't agree with it. Again, not saying that Ford was vastly inferior, but simply not good enough to be clearly the choice over Sam in 2013. Sam was also unanimously voted as first team SEC defense, so I'm not alone in this.
And I still stand by what I said. How a player can win an award can be the result of many factors and very circumstantial. I think that was the case here. Stats and timing were everything. Whether Sam was better or not was all decided on both of those factors.
And then there's Clowneys laziness that got in the way too. And Mosely being a bit underwhelming in 2013.
Indeed. And just because a player wins an award in 2013 doesn't mean he's the best player generally, or that he'll consistently be better season after season. I'm in no way defending Sam as one of the best players to play the game, or as the clear winner for SEC DPOY over everyone else. I'm just saying that I don't see how Ford could be selected as "superior" over Sam for SEC DPOY 2013.
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Craig Sanders has a rotating shower head.
After his honeymoon anyway... :rimshot:
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Logic applies everywhere.
I'll bet you are a riot at parties.
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I'll bet you are a riot at parties.
He's the Spock of the X
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He's the Spock of the X
He's the Sheldon of the X.
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He's the Sheldon of the X.
Bazinga
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Bazinga
I'll be that other one who used to live with Ellen Griswold and now gets to hook up with the moon-faced chick.
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I'll bet you are a riot at parties.
That depends on how many penises are exposed.
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That depends on how many penises are exposed.
See, that all depends on how many "dicks" show up.
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Quick comparison of playing styles:
Ford plays mostly piano, Sam plays rusty trombone and skin flute
Ford tickles the ivory, Sam tickles the brown eye
Ford pursues quarterbacks, Sam pursues tight ends
Obviously VV prefers Sam
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Quick comparison of playing styles:
Ford plays mostly piano, Sam plays rusty trombone and skin flute
Ford tickles the ivory, Sam tickles the brown eye
Ford pursues quarterbacks, Sam pursues tight ends
Obviously VV prefers Sam
Between the two? Of course...but if we're talking ideal preferences, I prefer John Stamos as Uncle Jesse.
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He's the Sheldon of the X.
:classic: