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The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: GH2001 on May 08, 2012, 03:08:40 PM
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Good read and a good book referenced. Puts a lot of very disturbing numbers out there concerning the unemployed and how the rate the media floats around every week is very skewed.
The book mentioned:
http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Apart-State-America-1960-2010/dp/0307453421
The article:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/05/01/when-did-it-become-ok-for-americans-not-to-work/?intcmp=obnetwork
When did it become OK for Americans not to work?
By Gary Shapiro, Gary Shapiro
Published May 01, 2012
FoxNews.com
My neighbor left his supermarket job and now gets a regular government check. In other words, he quit the work force and now feeds from the public trough.
He is healthy, and knows I do not approve of his sloth.
I wonder if my disdain for this scoundrel is fair or shared. When did it become okay for Americans not to work? Recently, Charles Murray, author of "Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960 – 2010," wrote in the Wall Street Journal:
“It must once again be taken for granted that a male in the prime of life who isn't even looking for work is behaving badly. There can be exceptions for those who are genuinely unable to work or are house husbands. But reasonably healthy working-age males who aren't working or even looking for work, who live off their girlfriends, families or the state, must once again be openly regarded by their fellow citizens as lazy, irresponsible and unmanly. Whatever their social class, they are, for want of a better word, bums.â€
The slowly declining national unemployment rate typically cited (now at 8.2 percent) understates the true number of unemployed Americans because it only includes those actively looking for work in the past four weeks and not those who have left the work force.
The “official†unemployment rate that measures adults who have left the workforce (Bureau of Labor Statistics U-6) is 14.8 percent. Even this probably underestimates things, because it does not include those who never entered the workforce or those who failed to seek unemployment benefits after leaving the workforce.
Whatever the true number of unemployed able-bodied Americans, it is much larger than it should be. These people are straining our economy and our collective ability to support them.
Part of the problem is that well-meaning laws encourage workers to look for a government check rather than a job. Although the 1996 reform of welfare capped the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families benefit to five years, the program still incentivizes many teenagers to become unwed young mothers and fathers to disappear.
The Social Security Disability Insurance program, which paid out $130 billion in benefits to 10.6 million Americans in 2011, uses 1950s medical standards for manufacturing jobs to determine a worker’s disability. Sadly, when a region loses jobs, disability applications rise –suggesting that many Americans are using disability benefit when they are employable.
As Murray, also a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, writes in his recent book, Coming Apart: “(O)nce, working at a menial job to provide for his family made a man proud and gave him status in the community... (N)ow it doesn't.†This perfectly captures our cultural shift.
One problem is that our legal benefits, intended to help the truly needy, also encourage the able bodied to play the system.
Our parents’ generation believed in hard work as an ethical mandate. Too many in our generation have shifted to a concept that because something is “legal†it is ethical.
In fact, this view has infected our leadership at the highest level. Many of our leaders celebrate and seemingly encourage the able-bodied to get maximum benefits. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi recently lauded the increase in the number of people on food stamps under President Obama as a “badge of honor.â€
Remarkably, Pelosi outdid this ethically barren statement with her March 22 comments celebrating “ObamaCare†as allowing anyone to quit their job and pursue their passion. Calling this a “liberation,†she said, “You want to be a photographer or a writer or a musician, whatever – an artist, you want to be self-employed, if you want to start a business, you want to change jobs, you no longer are prohibited from doing that because you can’t have access to health care…â€
And despite speeches in 2008 from candidate Obama implying that Americans should take responsibility for their fate, his presidency has been bereft of a moral call for self-reliance, sacrifice or hard work.
In fact, he is now campaigning by threatening that if the Republicans win, Americans will have to become self-reliant.
In late 2011, President Obama paraded some examples of Americans fending for themselves and declared: “That's not the America I believe in. It's not the America you believe in.â€
It’s just not Democrats – the Republicans have been complicit, too: they have yet to take a principled stand.
In fact, Republicans have agreed repeatedly to “temporary†extensions of unemployment benefits. More, they blithely oppose any tax increases, even loophole cuts, decrying any concept of sacrifice and instead only suggest modest budget cuts down the road. They too promise Americans they can have it all – and ignore that it is our children that are paying for today’s excesses.
President Kennedy set an exemplary bar when he told every American to “ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.†While our brave soldiers still live this creed, sadly our recent presidents have not.
President George W. Bush missed a huge opportunity to seek national sacrifice after September 11, and President Obama blew it after he created and then ignored the Bipartisan Deficit Commission, which suggested a plan of shared sacrifice. Is it any wonder that more and more Americans choose to live off the government rather than seek gainful employment?
Right now, someone on unemployment benefits simply needs to show they are actively looking for work – and this can go on for up to two years.
Yet, even President Obama’s top economic adviser has published research showing that extending unemployment benefits increases the jobless rate, proving that the longer the unemployment benefits, the longer people will stay unemployed.
My view is that any unemployment benefits lasting for more than a few weeks should be tied to volunteer work at a non-profit organization. Not only would this benefit the community but it would also keep the person active and engaged, both of which are critical during tough times.
What is often left out in these discussions is that a government check exhausts self-worth while an earned check gives a feeling of value, worth and contribution to an enterprise.
The truth is that Americans that do work are hard workers. According to OECD numbers, the average employed American in 2010 worked 1,778 hours per year. This is more than Japan, France and Germany.
Americans love our nation and care about our future.
I believe almost all Americans will do more with motivation, moral leadership and a sense of unity. Americans need to hear it from the top and will get off the dole or start sacrificing if they feel everyone else is also sacrificing.
Sadly, now, our leadership and our laws simply encourage taking. Except for our brave soldiers, we are far from the Kennedy ideal of giving to our country. It’s time we rethought our approach and considered the burden we are putting on our children.
I would welcome any of today's political leaders voicing the Kennedy-type call for patriotic sacrifice. Today's "have it all" leaders, instead, expand entitlements, cut taxes and promise equality of outcome.
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I don’t when it started but it has been getting worst in the last few years. I told my father this (he’s 83) and I do believe it that not within the rest of his life but before the end of mine this country is set for a cataclysmic event, whether it be some type of race event or the simple math of too many people wanting from too few people. I think we will know more about this country after the next election. If Obama is re-elected I think this speed’s up either or both events.
I for one am tired of being blamed for being white, successful, and hard working. I work two jobs and bring in 3 incomes to my household. It’s MY MONEY.
There is guy down the street from me who hasn’t worked in at least 6 months, I get home (afternoon) and he is in his driveway drinking beer, I get home at night (3 to 4 nights a week) and he’s still there (sometimes past out). I hear him talk about his unemployment money.
Also I not the best typist in the world.
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I don’t when it started but it has been getting worst in the last few years. I told my father this (he’s 83) and I do believe it that not within the rest of his life but before the end of mine this country is set for a cataclysmic event, whether it be some type of race event or the simple math of too many people wanting from too few people. I think we will know more about this country after the next election. If Obama is re-elected I think this speed’s up either or both events.
I for one am tired of being blamed for being white, successful, and hard working. I work two jobs and bring in 3 incomes to my household. It’s MY MONEY.
There is guy down the street from me who hasn’t worked in at least 6 months, I get home (afternoon) and he is in his driveway drinking beer, I get home at night (3 to 4 nights a week) and he’s still there (sometimes past out). I hear him talk about his unemployment money.
Ok. This is going to drive me crazy. Fix the items in red and resubmit.
Consider revising the item in green for clarity.
Otherwise I get your point.
I would at some point like to see a debate on the measure of "success" just to get an idea what people consider successful.
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I would at some point like to see a debate on the measure of "success" just to get an idea what people consider successful.
I don't think that many people would have a reasonable response to this anymore. Similar would be true of everyone's concept of "wealth".
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I don't think that many people would have a reasonable response to this anymore. Similar would be true of everyone's concept of "wealth".
"I got mine bitch, I don't care bout nuthin else" would be the most common response. Sad because I am not lying.
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I would at some point like to see a debate on the measure of "success" just to get an idea what people consider successful.
Success
Living comfortably within the means of your income, while having low debt.
It doesn't take making $500,000 a year to be successful. 2 years of Dave Ramsey took care of every mistake I made as a young adult. Although I don't make as much as I probably could if I chose to change jobs, I own my home and my debt consist of very little. In 10 months, my debt will only be monthly utility bills and my 2 children. Although my every day vehicle is a 2004 model and my home is only 2400 sq ft, in my opinion, I am a successful American.
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I was asking the butler just the other day whether he would consider himself a success if he were a member at the Country Club like me. Of course, we'd never let him in but it was interesting to hear his reaction.
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Seriously though, I don't have a butler. It was the chauffeur I was talking to.
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Success
Living comfortably within the means of your income, while having low debt.
It doesn't take making $500,000 a year to be successful. 2 years of Dave Ramsey took care of every mistake I made as a young adult. Although I don't make as much as I probably could if I chose to change jobs, I own my home and my debt consist of very little. In 10 months, my debt will only be monthly utility bills and my 2 children. Although my every day vehicle is a 2004 model and my home is only 2400 sq ft, in my opinion, I am a successful American.
FUCK Dave Ramsey. What a fucking tool. I can't stand that idiot clown and his shitty advice.
Beyond that, I agree that income is an unreliable indicator of success. At least to me.
If you're working 90+ hours and running your legs to stumps to have a little shinier this and a bit sportier that then I don't care how much you make. You're not a success. You can't balance work and play.
I didn't do shit today that I didn't want to do. And I didn't mooch off a soul to get there. That's the essence.
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Seriously though, I don't have a butler. It was the chauffeur I was talking to.
Do you know where I can find a good gardener? And I need a couple of Au pairs too by the way...if you know of any.
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FUCK Dave Ramsey. What a fucking tool. I can't stand that idiot clown and his shitty advice.
Beyond that, I agree that income is an unreliable indicator of success. At least to me.
If you're working 90+ hours and running your legs to stumps to have a little shinier this and a bit sportier that then I don't care how much you make. You're not a success. You can't balance work and play.
I didn't do shit today that I didn't want to do. And I didn't mooch off a soul to get there. That's the essence.
Disagree on Ramsay in general. I might not totally agree with a lot of the micro techniques he uses, I agree with his general principle of living within your means, understanding the economy and minimizing your debt.
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Disagree on Ramsay in general. I might not totally agree with a lot of the micro techniques he uses, I agree with his general principle of living within your means, understanding the economy and minimizing your debt.
Generally I think you are right; he's helped a tremendous amount of folk with his faith-based advice as annoying as it can be sometimes. If you ever think you're in a bad way just listen to the callers on his show for a day and you'll reconsider your situation.
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Generally I think you are right; he's helped a tremendous amount of folk with his faith-based advice as annoying as it can be sometimes. If you ever think you're in a bad way just listen to the callers on his show for a day and you'll reconsider your situation.
I work with a girl that racked up $20k in credit card bills in college. All of it was on clothes, shoes, hair appointments, and nails.
She said she got $300 in spending money from her father each month plus he paid all of her bills.
Her excuse? She just didn't know. Now she's on some strict budget trying to put a dent in those bills.
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FUCK Dave Ramsey. What a fucking tool. I can't stand that idiot clown and his shitty advice.
Beyond that, I agree that income is an unreliable indicator of success. At least to me.
If you're working 90+ hours and running your legs to stumps to have a little shinier this and a bit sportier that then I don't care how much you make. You're not a success. You can't balance work and play.
I didn't do shit today that I didn't want to do. And I didn't mooch off a soul to get there. That's the essence.
He has a lot of stuff I don't do, but the general concept of what he taught in an 8 hour course took me from being $45,000 in debt 2 years ago to being a little over $7000 as of last month. Honestly, it was probably the idea of having debt, that I couldn't stand. I'm not into the envelope system, but his (free) advice worked for me. At least, it made me think a little more about my future and how to create a stress free life.
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Fuck Ramsey.
I heard the twat bag advise a single mother to avoid the burden of a student loan and get a job rather than enroll in school. If she listened to that clown, his ignorant short-sighted advice likely doomed her to a life of just barely getting by. Oh she might not be in debt, but she'll never get out of the rut either.
He's a fucking bus full of ass.
He's brilliant for saying "don't spend shitloads of money you don't have?" Wow. Who would have ever thought? He's "brilliant" for that and then offering extremely short-sighted advice that may solve an immediate problem but also builds a nation completely averse to risk.
Risk aversion is for PUSSIES. And Dave Ramsey is a big fat laughing-at-your-dumb-ass-as-he-steals-your-money PUSS.
Fuck that fool.
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Fuck Ramsey.
I heard the twat bag advise a single mother to avoid the burden of a student loan and get a job rather than enroll in school. If she listened to that clown, his ignorant short-sighted advice likely doomed her to a life of just barely getting by. Oh she might not be in debt, but she'll never get out of the rut either.
He's a fucking bus full of ass.
He's brilliant for saying "don't spend shitloads of money you don't have?" Wow. Who would have ever thought? He's "brilliant" for that and then offering extremely short-sighted advice that may solve an immediate problem but also builds a nation completely averse to risk.
Risk aversion is for PUSSIES. And Dave Ramsey is a big fat laughing-at-your-dumb-ass-as-he-steals-your-money PUSS.
Fuck that fool.
So basically, you're saying I should forget all of his bullshit and go buy a bunch of shit I don't need? Instead of asking what the definition of success is, you should have just told me and saved me the embarrassment.
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So basically, you're saying I should forget all of his bullshit and go buy a bunch of shit I don't need? Instead of asking what the definition of success is, you should have just told me and saved me the embarrassment.
Nope. But you didn't need Dave Dumbass Ramsey to figure out that you needed to find a balance between what you owe each month and what you bring in. You're smart enough to do that on your
own. His financial advice was -- at least in my opinion -- the biggest bunch of pablum ever. I listened to his schtick for a while. He had no real insight. Sometimes what he said was probably helpful. Sometimes his advice was downright idiotic and dangerous. Telling people their credit score is irrelevant? Insisting that the only path to independence is a complete lack of debt?
He's wrong.
That idiotic fuck is a sore point with me. I'm sure he helped some people but he can still suck a dick.
My extreme dislike for Ramsey has nothing to do with success or the definition thereof, however. Success is a state of mind.
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It was the chauffeur I was talking to.
I think Otis blowed teh chauffeur.
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I give Ramsay credit for taking a simple concept and basically cashing in on it. Like K said, there's something inherently wrong with people not being able to figure out several fundamental financial principles. Don't spend more than you make. Don't rack up credit card debt. Pay shit off. All he's doing is getting filthy rich telling people what they already know.
However, sometimes people just need some structure and direction. It's just like certain addictions. You know it would be better for you and healthier all around if you just put down the bottle. (All debate over addictions being physical or psychological aside) But sometimes, people need a program and/or support to get it done.
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Nope. But you didn't need Dave Dumbass Ramsey to figure out that you needed to find a balance between what you owe each month and what you bring in. You're smart enough to do that on your
own. His financial advice was -- at least in my opinion -- the biggest bunch of pablum ever. I listened to his schtick for a while. He had no real insight. Sometimes what he said was probably helpful. Sometimes his advice was downright idiotic and dangerous. Telling people their credit score is irrelevant? Insisting that the only path to independence is a complete lack of debt?
He's wrong.
That idiotic fuck is a sore point with me. I'm sure he helped some people but he can still suck a dick.
My extreme dislike for Ramsey has nothing to do with success or the definition thereof, however. Success is a state of mind.
What Ramsey says is stuff you and I already know but many do not know this information as simple as it may sound. I think it's good to have a mainstream guy like him out there for people to hear. People don't have to be in debt and he reminds them of that. Many go down the wrong path (for various reasons) and are very ignorant to the right way to be. Like I said, I don't agree with all of his advice and micro principles but getting the general idea out there of living debt free and happy is a very good thing for the general public. Spending money we don't have is shoved down out throats in marketing (Credit Cards, Automobiles with bells and whistles, entertainment items). It's good to have someone out there warning the public not to fall for all the glitter.
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What Ramsey says is stuff you and I already know but many do not know this information as simple as it may sound. I think it's good to have a mainstream guy like him out there for people to hear. People don't have to be in debt and he reminds them of that. Many go down the wrong path (for various reasons) and are very ignorant to the right way to be. Like I said, I don't agree with all of his advice and micro principles but getting the general idea out there of living debt free and happy is a very good thing for the general public. Spending money we don't have is shoved down out throats in marketing (Credit Cards, Automobiles with bells and whistles, entertainment items). It's good to have someone out there warning the public not to fall for all the glitter.
Disagree. That's not how I saw Ramsey at all. His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"
Fuck that.
Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path? No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way? Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by? No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it? Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for? No.
People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big.
His advice is ridiculously extreme. He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever.
Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA.
Fuck Dave Ramsey.
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Nope. But you didn't need Dave Dumbass Ramsey to figure out that you needed to find a balance between what you owe each month and what you bring in. You're smart enough to do that on your
own. His financial advice was -- at least in my opinion -- the biggest bunch of pablum ever. I listened to his schtick for a while. He had no real insight. Sometimes what he said was probably helpful. Sometimes his advice was downright idiotic and dangerous. Telling people their credit score is irrelevant? Insisting that the only path to independence is a complete lack of debt?
He's wrong.
That idiotic fuck is a sore point with me. I'm sure he helped some people but he can still suck a dick.
My extreme dislike for Ramsey has nothing to do with success or the definition thereof, however. Success is a state of mind.
Well, that I agree with. And I can't see why anyone would ever pay the guy for his advice. Especially the envelope thing he talked about for 4 hours. But he did have a few sticking points that made sense. Of course, had it been mandatory for me to listen to someone else instead of Ramsey it probably would have been the same concept.
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Disagree. That's not how I saw Ramsey at all. His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"
Fuck that.
Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path? No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way? Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by? No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it? Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for? No.
People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big.
His advice is ridiculously extreme. He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever.
Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA.
Fuck Dave Ramsey.
You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard. Never once said not to go to college or start a business. Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference?
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Disagree. That's not how I saw Ramsey at all. His only mantra was "debt free, the way to be!"
Fuck that.
Would I have an education if I'd followed his simplistic path? No, I wouldn't.
Would I have taken the risk to start my own business if I'd lived the Ramsey way? Nope.
Could I have survived a difficult stretch if I'd refused to take on a little debt to get by? No.
Would I have bought out a competitor if I'd waited until I had no obligations and saved up enough to do it? Again, no.
Could I make the business trips I needed to make at the start only buying a car I could afford to pay cash for? No.
People who live by his rules and follow his baby plan are shackled from thinking (and winning) big.
His advice is ridiculously extreme. He goes well beyond the basic principles of money management and in fact leads people toward no management whatsoever.
Ramsey is no different than the green loving hippie fuck who pushes the "get back to nature" message, or Jehovah's Witnesses, or PETA.
Fuck Dave Ramsey.
His main audience are those that are in extreme debt. I think his way to be is much better than the condition of most of the people that need help. The media and the gov't (along with marketing depts) have brainwashed society into thinking debt spending is the norm. Sometimes it takes a guy like this (as self righteous and disingenuous as he may sound sometimes) to snap people out of a lifestyle that is taking them down a highway to hell.
BTW - the plan and baby steps are to get them at even footing (out from underneath the debt). Then they can feel free to think big. You can't exactly think big if you are sitting in 500,000 in debt. First things first, crawl before you walk, etc.
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You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard. Never once said not to go to college or start a business. Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference?
It's a personal issue with me. Family member second guessing everything I did, bought, decided and using "Well, Dave Ramsey says..." as the opening.
So I listened to his show for about a month just to see. I was absolutely appalled at most of the advice he dispensed.
"Dave, I owe $150,000 on my home and $25,000 on my car and my husband left me. I've got two kids. I'm working part time and I'd like to go back to nursing school but I'd have to take out a loan to do it. What do you think I should do?"
Sell the car, sell the house. Save up until you can buy a car for $1000. Don't take out a school loan, you don't want to start out your life in debt! Get a full time job on top of the part time job and eat beans. Call me back when you're debt free and I'll play a horn and go yippee!!
He said ignorant shit like that over and over and over and over. And over.
Buy a $1000 car? How stupid. She'd pay more in repairs a year than she would paying off the one she has. Don't get a student loan? Right. She qualifies for a great full time Waffle House job where she'll make $9 an hour. Or she can get her nursing degree, get a job that pays $40 or $50k. Definitely don't want that, Waffle House needs waitresses so Dave can get his hash browns.
I'll leave it alone now because it is sort of a personal thing with me.
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You obviously listened to much more of his advice than the free 8 hour course I heard. Never once said not to go to college or start a business. Maybe he has a different philosophy when speaking at a large business conference?
If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it. It's why I don't like Ramsey either.
I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt. I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them. I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid. That's absolutely ridiculous.
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If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it. It's why I don't like Ramsey either.
I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt. I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them. I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid. That's absolutely ridiculous.
Again, were applying standards here for you, I and Kaos. Most of the people that need his help are in serious serious debt and need extreme changes. For you and I to enjoy life and be limited in our debt, that stuff is not necessary. We are ahead of the 8 ball.
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It's a personal issue with me. Family member second guessing everything I did, bought, decided and using "Well, Dave Ramsey says..." as the opening.
So I listened to his show for about a month just to see. I was absolutely appalled at most of the advice he dispensed.
"Dave, I owe $150,000 on my home and $25,000 on my car and my husband left me. I've got two kids. I'm working part time and I'd like to go back to nursing school but I'd have to take out a loan to do it. What do you think I should do?"
Sell the car, sell the house. Save up until you can buy a car for $1000. Don't take out a school loan, you don't want to start out your life in debt! Get a full time job on top of the part time job and eat beans. Call me back when you're debt free and I'll play a horn and go yippee!!
He said ignorant shit like that over and over and over and over. And over.
Buy a $1000 car? How stupid. She'd pay more in repairs a year than she would paying off the one she has. Don't get a student loan? Right. She qualifies for a great full time Waffle House job where she'll make $9 an hour. Or she can get her nursing degree, get a job that pays $40 or $50k. Definitely don't want that, Waffle House needs waitresses so Dave can get his hash browns.
I'll leave it alone now because it is sort of a personal thing with me.
You're exactly right.
We almost went the Ramsey route. My wife and I are both teachers, so we thought Ramsey's "save save save no debt no debt no debt!" policy would be good for us. But the more we thought about it, the more we realized it wasn't the best choice.
We bought a house despite not having a 20% down payment. My wife went to graduate school and got her master's degree despite having to take out a $12k loan. We bought two used - but under 40K miles - cars and took on two hefty car payments. One was a Honda Accord. The other a Nissan Altima.
It was tough at first, but by next year, we'll have paid off one of the cars and in two years, the other car along with the student loan. My wife's pay increase has really helped. Owning a house has helped with taxes.
Considering that both of these cars are known to be reliable for a long, long time, we fully expect to be in a very good place within the next five-seven years. We'll hit the 20% mark on our house payments and drop $200/month. We can sell the cars if we want or drive them until they die which could be ten years from now.
And we wouldn't have this plan if we didn't make the scary investments. If we had listened to Ramsey? We'd still be in that cheap apartment complex with two crappy cars and wishing that we could improve our lives in some way.
Ramsey says to be patient to the bone, but I think being smart is much more important and much more enjoyable.
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You're exactly right.
We almost went the Ramsey route. My wife and I are both teachers, so we thought Ramsey's "save save save no debt no debt no debt!" policy would be good for us. But the more we thought about it, the more we realized it wasn't the best choice.
We bought a house despite not having a 20% down payment. My wife went to graduate school and got her master's degree despite having to take out a $12k loan. We bought two used - but under 40K miles - cars and took on two hefty car payments. One was a Honda Accord. The other a Nissan Altima.
It was tough at first, but by next year, we'll have paid off one of the cars and in two years, the other car along with the student loan. My wife's pay increase has really helped. Owning a house has helped with taxes.
Considering that both of these cars are known to be reliable for a long, long time, we fully expect to be in a very good place within the next five-seven years. We'll hit the 20% mark on our house payments and drop $200/month. We can sell the cars if we want or drive them until they die which could be ten years from now.
And we wouldn't have this plan if we didn't make the scary investments. If we had listened to Ramsey? We'd still be in that cheap apartment complex with two crappy cars and wishing that we could improve our lives in some way.
Ramsey says to be patient to the bone, but I think being smart is much more important and much more enjoyable.
What you just told me there is that you are not one of the people that needs to hear what he says. You already knew common sense.
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If it accrues debt, he is staunchly against it. It's why I don't like Ramsey either.
I also don't like how he insists on people giving up enjoying their life in order to get out of debt. I understand some people have made really bad decisions, but Ramsey doesn't limit it to just them. I heard him tell someone employed with a steady job and with $10k worth of debt that they should eat only canned foods and cheap cereal until the debt was paid. That's absolutely ridiculous.
I'm starting to think I heard a completely different side of Ramsey. I didn't hear that I should eat canned foods, eat cheap cereal, or pinch every penney I have. Otherwise I would have taken a nap during his time. And he never said not to have nice things. He just showed how much smarter it was to buy it with cash.
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I'm starting to think I heard a completely different side of Ramsey. I didn't hear that I should eat canned foods, eat cheap cereal, or pinch every penney I have. Otherwise I would have taken a nap during his time. And he never said not to have nice things. He just showed how much smarter it was to buy it with cash.
I skimmed one of his books and listened to his radio show a few times. He was always adamant about living frugal to the fullest degree.
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Back on topic.....I would love to get paid and not work.... lotto. inheritance, rich husband, whatev ....but I would never do it on the government dime. The notion of that offends me. I'm all for people getting a helping hand if they got laid off, or have real disabilities that keep them from working...but any able bodied person, not just men, should be able to support themselves and any family they choose to have. What the fuck is wrong with people?
Besides, sometimes you get a job that allows you to check out youporn at least part of the day.
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Back on topic.....I would love to get paid and not work.... lotto. inheritance, rich husband, whatev ....but I would never do it on the government dime. The notion of that offends me. I'm all for people getting a helping hand if they got laid off, or have real disabilities that keep them from working...but any able bodied person, not just men, should be able to support themselves and any family they choose to have. What the fuck is wrong with people?
Besides, sometimes you get a job that allows you to check out youporn at least part of the day.
Sometimes eh? Who has that job?
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Sometimes eh? Who has that job?
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/ironseangel/raisedhand-1.jpg)
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Another hijack, Ramsey sucks. Yes, the general theme of living within your means and "trying" to keep yourself debt free is awesome, but sometimes you can't do that. Like K said, working a shitty job making $8/hr, have a car payment, some CC debt? Whatever you do, don't take out that college loan and go to school at night to better yourself. <---dumb advice.
The worst one I heard on his show was to this young man calling in. Said he was tired of paying apartment rent at $600/month when he found a house that would have the same payment that he could fix up as he went along. Had a car payment, and $3,000 in credit car debt and was worried about his credit card debt keeping him from getting the best interest rates possible. This was his advice to the guy. Call the credit card company and tell them that you can't pay the $3,000 but could pay $1,500, then pay off the car as fast as possible or sell it and get one that you can pay cash for (and your $1,000 emergency fund), then go buy the house. Anyone else see the flaw in that other than myself? Forget that he might could have worked something out with the mortgage company to roll his CC debt in with the loan. Do people really take that advice? Yeah, call the CC company, work something out with them by not paying the full amount of your debt, let it go on your credit score and ruin it, then try and buy a house.