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Pat Dye Field => Signing Day => Topic started by: Buzz Killington on January 14, 2010, 09:24:56 AM

Title: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Buzz Killington on January 14, 2010, 09:24:56 AM
In light of recent events in Knocksville, and other "possibilities" out there...who do you think Auburn finishes up with?  I'm going to put my best guess below, but I want to hear what everyone else thinks.  I'm a listener, and I care like that.


Jeffrey Whittaker - DT
Bryan Jones - DT
Corey Lemonier - DE
Marcus Lattimore - RB
Eric Mack - OT
...and some obscure kid nobody has even heard of at either LB or OL
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 09:39:36 AM
That pretty much is the target list for Auburn at this point with the exception of adding DT Mike Thornton.

Others still on the board include Victor Beasley, James Stone, and some surprise out there that is being kept quiet for some reason. The last three are less likely percentage wise than the list mentioned above.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 14, 2010, 09:52:06 AM
That pretty much is the target list for Auburn at this point with the exception of adding DT Mike Thornton.

Others still on the board include Victor Beasley, James Stone, and some surprise out there that is being kept quiet for some reason. The last three are less likely percentage wise than the list mentioned above.

I've heard Stone made his decision weeks ago.  He's just waiting on NSD to announce.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Buzz Killington on January 14, 2010, 10:11:48 AM
I've heard Stone made his decision weeks ago.  He's just waiting on NSD to announce.
I have heard that too.  He and C.J. Mosley have been giggling about it together for some time now.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: War Eagle!!! on January 14, 2010, 10:14:13 AM
That pretty much is the target list for Auburn at this point with the exception of adding DT Mike Thornton.

Others still on the board include Victor Beasley, James Stone, and some surprise out there that is being kept quiet for some reason. The last three are less likely percentage wise than the list mentioned above.

Per Rivals my own personall skreetz, we are dropping with Thorton. It looks to be UGA for him.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 10:17:15 AM
Per Rivals my own personall skreetz, we are dropping with Thorton. It looks to be UGA for him.

You got one up on me because I didnt know that. Another things is I sure would like to know who this 'secret' prospect is. Im wondering if it is J Jeffcoat that GH was eluding to.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 10:32:30 AM
I've heard Stone made his decision weeks ago.  He's just waiting on NSD to announce.

Is this straight up skreet info? I keed!  I haven't heard anything about Stone much.  I think he inks with the bad guys on NSD. 

I think Buzz has a pretty accurate list.  The obscure LB or OL, I think it will be Beasley.  With Kiffin leaving does this open the door to get JC Copeland.  I know he got an offer from AU.

 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 10:35:07 AM
Per Rivals my own personall skreetz, we are dropping with Thorton. It looks to be UGA for him.

Read Heard that on the skreetz this morning as well.  Someone mentioned that as long as RG is at UGA that is where he will commit to. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Tiger Wench on January 14, 2010, 10:39:16 AM
Read Heard that on the skreetz this morning as well.  Someone mentioned that as long as RG is at UGA that is where he will commit to. 
Dude, WTF is going on in your avatar?   :blink:
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 10:40:14 AM
Dude, WTF is going on in your avatar?   :blink:

you aint kiddin, that some freaky poop.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 10:43:42 AM
Is this straight up skreet info? I keed!  I haven't heard anything about Stone much.  I think he inks with the bad guys on NSD. 

I think Buzz has a pretty accurate list.  The obscure LB or OL, I think it will be Beasley.  With Kiffin leaving does this open the door to get JC Copeland.  I know he got an offer from AU.

 

After losing Thornton and Stone of the list, I would def. say that those defactos from TN would be a hot target. Beasley has been wildcard for sometime now. Whats good about VB is that he could be recruited as a WR and LB.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 11:03:08 AM
Dude, WTF is going on in your avatar?   :blink:

I saw it on another message board in a sig and thought it was hilarious.  Sock bunnies are beating the shit out of a guy and then one runs to the camera and hits it with what looks to be a toilet brush.  I don't know, just struck me as funny.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: CCTAU on January 14, 2010, 11:45:50 AM
So we are sitting at 24 commits right now. How does that pan out if we sign 5 more guys?
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Buzz Killington on January 14, 2010, 11:47:43 AM
So we are sitting at 24 commits right now. How does that pan out if we sign 5 more guys?
Oops...so scratch the obscure deep snapper from my list.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Saniflush on January 14, 2010, 12:43:02 PM
So we are sitting at 24 commits right now. How does that pan out if we sign 5 more guys?
A couple/few of that 24 are sign and place is my understanding.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUChizad on January 14, 2010, 12:43:26 PM
I saw it on another message board in a sig and thought it was hilarious.  Sock bunnies are beating the shit out of a guy and then one runs to the camera and hits it with what looks to be a toilet brush.  I don't know, just struck me as funny.
That was a commercial for Rayman Raving Rabbids...RRR2 I believe, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids)
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 12:52:50 PM
That was a commercial for Rayman Raving Rabbids...RRR2 I believe, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids)

Ahh, I had no idea. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Godfather on January 14, 2010, 02:15:41 PM
Ahh, I had no idea. 

You should listen to him, he has a Wii
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: jadennis on January 14, 2010, 02:46:48 PM
My guess is...(in order of who I think is most likely)...

Whitaker
Lemonier

Those are the only two I think are likely to sign.

Not far behind would be...(also in order of most likely)...

Lattimore
Mack

Beyond that, who knows.  I mean, at this point, the remaining guys I think are really torn between 1-3 programs that they really like.  I know Lattimore likes South Carolina, Penn State, and Auburn.  Lemonier used to like Tennessee after his visit, along with FSU and Auburn.  Mack is still likely going to stay near his kid.  If not, Auburn is his #1, but that's a big "if" since his kid is in the picture.

I think anyone expecting that we get all 4-5 of our remaining targets should prepare to be let down...it's just not likely to get them all.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 14, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
Best Case Senario:

RB, Marcus Lattimore
OT, Eric Mack
DE, Corey Lemonier
DT, Jeffrey Whitacker
DT, Bryan Jones
and the "Secret" commitment (skreets have told me to keep it quiet, until he is named as a visitor...after that, it'll be time to let the dogs out)

Somewhat Worse Case Senario (meaning Auburn doesn't land a few of their top targets):

DE, Corey Lemonier
DT, Jeffrey Whitacker
DT, Bryan Jones
WR/LB/S, Victor Beasley
DE/LB/S, Pat Swilling Jr.

RB, Marcus Lattimore (USCe or Penn State)
OT, Eric Mack (USCe)
DT, Mike Thornton (UGA or Penn State)

*word on da skreets...if Auburn doesn't land Marcus Lattimore, they will be done at the RB position, they will not go after Lache and DJ Howard will get more of a look at the RB position (a position that he can definitely play)*
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: jadennis on January 14, 2010, 08:52:25 PM
I would say worst case senario is we get only Whitaker or Lemonier and some guys further off the radar (or we leave spots open for next January).  Prowler, your "worst case" is still pretty darn good....you really think that's as bad as it could turn out?
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 14, 2010, 09:13:42 PM
I would say worst case senario is we get only Whitaker or Lemonier and some guys further off the radar (or we leave spots open for next January).  Prowler, your "worst case" is still pretty darn good....you really think that's as bad as it could turn out?
No...that's why I stated "somewhat" then I noted that it meant we wouldn't get a few of our remaining "Big Cats".

Worse Case:
Auburn loses all of their top rated recruits (4* and higher)...of course greaseybammer would be absolutely giddy over that, he might even let out the three words that he's been holding back (RTR)
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 09:50:00 PM
Markeith Ambles (5 star WR) making visits to UNC and Auburn. De-commit from TN.
Corey Miller (4 star DE) making a visit to Auburn. De-commit from TN.

disclaimer: visits have not been made official as of yet.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 10:03:19 PM
Markeith Ambles (5 star WR) making visits to UNC and Auburn. De-commit from TN.
Corey Miller (4 star DE) making a visit to Auburn. De-commit from TN.

disclaimer: visits have not been made official as of yet.

Bryan Matthews shot this one down earlier tonight.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 14, 2010, 10:11:20 PM
Bryan Matthews shot this one down earlier tonight.

Well he may be right but I hope he is wrong. Of course a visit doesnt really mean anything but it is always nice to get them on campus.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AUTiger1 on January 14, 2010, 10:22:51 PM
Well he may be right but I hope he is wrong. Of course a visit doesnt really mean anything but it is always nice to get them on campus.

I would take him for sure, but honestly would much rather have Miller or Copeland. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 15, 2010, 12:20:57 AM
I would take him for sure, but honestly would much rather have Miller or Copeland. 

I agree. Now that I have investigated a little more, I see that Auburn has not accepted Ambles request for visit. Miller on the other hand would be right down Auburns alley of last wishes.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 03:07:04 PM
Erick Mack has said that after his official to USCe today, he is done with visits and done with recruiting.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/school?schoolId=2579&page=briefingroom&season=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fschool%3fschoolId%3d2579%26page%3dbriefingroom%26season%3d2010 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/school?schoolId=2579&page=briefingroom&season=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fschool%3fschoolId%3d2579%26page%3dbriefingroom%26season%3d2010)

Quote
ESPNU 150 prospect Eric Mack (Saint Matthews, S.C./Calhoun County) said Sunday that after his official visit to South Carolina, he is done with recruiting and will not take any more visits, ESPN's JC Shurburtt reports.

Mack had a visit scheduled to Florida for the weekend of Jan. 22nd, but will not take that now. This also eliminates Auburn, which was considered another player.

Mack, the nation's No. 2 offensive guard prospect, committed to South Carolina during the summer and has not backed off of that commit. He did waver after the Gamecocks' offensive line coach, Eric Wolford, took the head coaching job at Youngstown State.

Also, I think Alabama gets Stone. Seastrunk will be an Oregon Duck IMO.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 03:15:52 PM
No...that's why I stated "somewhat" then I noted that it meant we wouldn't get a few of our remaining "Big Cats".

WorsT Case:
Auburn loses all of their top rated recruits (4* and higher)...of course greaseybammer would be absolutely giddy over that, he might even let out the three words that he's been holding back (RTR)

I don't even really care about what you're rambling about here, because you're just shooting turds out the ass like every other dick, suck and hairy who has an internet connection and doesn't know shit. 

But would you mind fixing it and making it WORST case, which is the proper terminology?
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 03:32:51 PM
I don't even really care about what you're rambling about here, because you're just shooting turds out the ass like every other dick, suck and hairy who has an internet connection and doesn't know shit. 

But would you mind fixing it and making it WORST case, which is the proper terminology?
Like I've said in a number of other posts...you should just stick to other topics and leave the recruiting topics to those that actually know how the recruiting season usually unfolds, because you know don't know shit about recruiting...and should really just stop, you're making yourself look worsT everytime you try.  But, I'll give you a B for the effort.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Townhallsavoy on January 17, 2010, 03:35:22 PM
Erick Mack has said that after his official to USCe today, he is done with visits and done with recruiting.

Also, I think Alabama gets Stone. Seastrunk will be an Oregon Duck IMO.

I knew I should have cancelled my subscription to Rivals a few months ago.  I didn't have the balls to do it after Jeffrey Lee all but confirmed Lattimore was a silent commit to us.  

"Auburn isn't taking Seastrunk because we're certain about Lattimore.  Seastrunk wants to commit now, but the coaches have Lattimore higher on the board."

A bunch of bull shit.  In the same sentences as the Lattimore promises were the Eric Mack promises.  

I guess I'll hold out hope that we swing them by signing day, but FOR REAL THIS TIME.  I'm cancelling my subscription if all this hype falls through.  

Really, it doesn't matter.  Our class is pretty solid right now on o-linemen and Dyer is a hell of a RB prospect.  As long as we pull in Whittaker and one more defensive lineman, we'll be fine.  

Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 17, 2010, 03:37:31 PM
I wouldnt count out Lattimore one bit but I have had my reservations about Mack simply because of his desire to stay close to his little kid.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 03:37:54 PM
Erick Mack has said that after his official to USCe today, he is done with visits and done with recruiting.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/school?schoolId=2579&page=briefingroom&season=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fschool%3fschoolId%3d2579%26page%3dbriefingroom%26season%3d2010 (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/recruiting/tracker/school?schoolId=2579&page=briefingroom&season=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fschool%3fschoolId%3d2579%26page%3dbriefingroom%26season%3d2010)

Also, I think Alabama gets Stone. Seastrunk will be an Oregon Duck IMO.
IMO, Eric Mack isn't "Done" with recruiting...he may be done with Official Visits, which would be good for Auburn, since he's already taken his visit here.  I don't care what the recruiting "experts" think, he's not as solid to South Carolina.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 03:39:04 PM
I knew I should have cancelled my subscription to Rivals a few months ago.  I didn't have the balls to do it after Jeffrey Lee all but confirmed Lattimore was a silent commit to us.  

"Auburn isn't taking Seastrunk because we're certain about Lattimore.  Seastrunk wants to commit now, but the coaches have Lattimore higher on the board."

A bunch of bull shit.  In the same sentences as the Lattimore promises were the Eric Mack promises.  

I guess I'll hold out hope that we swing them by signing day, but FOR REAL THIS TIME.  I'm cancelling my subscription if all this hype falls through.  

Really, it doesn't matter.  Our class is pretty solid right now on o-linemen and Dyer is a hell of a RB prospect.  As long as we pull in Whittaker and one more defensive lineman, we'll be fine.  


The way Lattimore talks, it almost seems as if he will stay close to home. Here is a quote from the PSU Rivals site on 1/11:

Quote
"I really can't name a leader right now because I haven't visited Oregon yet, but after [visiting] Oregon I could," said Lattimore. "It is two schools that are really standing out to me right now. When I think about those two schools, I think about if I broke my leg, the quality of education that I could get at the school, and it's a good football situation for me. Another thing I think about is I want everybody to come see me play. It's kind of like I want to have them come see me and support me."
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 03:40:15 PM
The way Lattimore talks, it almost seems as if he will stay close to home. Here is a quote from the PSU Rivals site on 1/11:

Auburn is only 4 hours away from Bynes, SC.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 03:42:28 PM
IMO, Eric Mack isn't "Done" with recruiting...he may be done with Official Visits, which would be good for Auburn, since he's already taken his visit here.  I don't care what the recruiting "experts" think, he's not as solid to South Carolina.
They said that Mack is the one that said it. It wasn't their opinion. Sorry, but I will take Eric Mack's word over yours.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 04:41:12 PM
They said that Mack is the one that said it. It wasn't their opinion. Sorry, but I will take Eric Mack's word over yours.

This is why I hate the bullshit big mouths on here who have to constantly eat crow.  It just makes everybody look stupid.

All these idiotic rumors, fake ass "skreets" and then backpedalling and making up other shit and bickering back and forth.  It's fucking ridiculous. 

Try a little honesty for a change.  Every post from XXXXXXXXX (leaves, dammit, leaves)  should start with the following phrase: 

"I don't know shit, I haven't heard shit, I haven't seen shit and nobody who knows anything has ever told me shit, but here's what I WISH would happen." 

It's fucking stupid.  You say 30 different things and one or two are bound to come about just because of the theory of probability.  Then you wash away all the other bullshit you said, hold up the two corn nuggets plucked from the mountain of shit you spewed and call yourself a farmer. 

Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 04:58:11 PM
This is why I hate the bullshit big mouths on here who have to constantly eat crow.  It just makes everybody look stupid.

All these idiotic rumors, fake ass "skreets" and then backpedalling and making up other shit and bickering back and forth.  It's fucking ridiculous. 

Try a little honesty for a change.  Every post from XXXXXXXXX (leaves, dammit, leaves)  should start with the following phrase: 

"I don't know shit, I haven't heard shit, I haven't seen shit and nobody who knows anything has ever told me shit, but here's what I WISH would happen." 

It's fucking stupid.  You say 30 different things and one or two are bound to come about just because of the theory of probability.  Then you wash away all the other bullshit you said, hold up the two corn nuggets plucked from the mountain of shit you spewed and call yourself a farmer. 

Ridiculous.
How's this for not "knowing shit".....

Quote
Calhoun County OL Eric Mack, who said after his official visit to USC Sunday he was firm with the Gamecocks and would not take any more visits, does plan to take an unofficial visit to Auburn next weekend with teammate ATH Shamier Jeffery who is going there for a junior day. Mack, who has been hotly pursued by the Tigers, made an official visit there in September. Mack has scratched his plans for an official visit to Florida.

BTW, this was posted AFTER people were talking about it here and on numerous of other boards....Fuckin' Dumbass.  Also, after the Kornhole and Shurburtt article about "Mack being done with recruiting", the USCe fans were saying that Kornhole's article was 100% false...and it sounds like the ESPN guy just went with what Kornhole posted, or he had the same "source".

Also:

Quote
According to a source who spoke with Byrnes RB Marcus Lattimore over the weekend, Lattimore made comments indicating that he plans to sign with USC. In response to a text message, Lattimore responded with a text message saying, "I didn't say that." He did not elaborate. Lattimore made his official visit with the Gamecocks over the weekend. According to another source, Lattimore did not commit on his visit. Lattimore has said he plans to announce his decision at his church the day before Signing Day. Lattimore is scheduled to visit Oregon this coming weekend, but the source said Lattimore told him he's not taking that visit. "I don't think he's going to take any more visits," the source said. "He said he's planning on coming (to USC) June 1st. He said he's not taking any more visits." Lattimore has also visited Auburn and Penn State. Penn State head coach Joe Paterno, who seldom makes in home visits with recruits, does plan to come in to visit Lattimore.

See what happens when people rely on "Sources"..... :thumbsup:

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS (http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS)
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 05:00:03 PM
Auburn is only 4 hours away from Bynes, SC.
Lattimore is from Duncan, SC. Byrnes is the school he goes to.

Oh, and Columbia is 1 1/2 hours from Duncan. Just sayin......
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 05:05:42 PM
How's this for not "knowing shit".....

BTW, this was posted AFTER people were talking about it here and on numerous of other boards....Fuckin' Dumbass.  Also, after the Kornhole and Shurburtt article about "Mack being done with recruiting", the USCe fans were saying that Kornhole's article was 100% false...and it sounds like the ESPN guy just went with what Kornhole posted, or he had the same "source".

Also:

See what happens when people rely on "Sources"..... :thumbsup:

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS (http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS)
On the Mack piece, I love how they admit that he said he was done with visits, but then they claim he will take more. Did you write that update? They don't say that he said he was actually going to take more, they just throw it out there as they just know. You didn't use a fact or anything to back your stance that he will still make visits. You used a link that simply uses the same logic as you. "Well, he said he's done, but I say otherwise."

Bottom line? He won't go to Auburn.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 05:12:15 PM
Lattimore is from Duncan, SC. Byrnes is the school he goes to.

Oh, and Columbia is 1 1/2 hours from Duncan. Just sayin......
That's what I meant....Duncan, SC is right around 4 1/2 hours away from Auburn.

James F. Byrnes HS in Duncan, SC is a little under 4 1/2 hours away.  :thumbsup:

So, either way, it's only right around 4 1/2 hours away and it's a straight shot down 85.


BTW, rws, that article I provided was written by Kornhole...the same person that wrote the first article about Mack being done with his visits, before Shurburtt wrote his ESPN article.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 05:52:19 PM
How's this for not "knowing shit".....

BTW, this was posted AFTER people were talking about it here and on numerous of other boards....Fuckin' Dumbass.  Also, after the Kornhole and Shurburtt article about "Mack being done with recruiting", the USCe fans were saying that Kornhole's article was 100% false...and it sounds like the ESPN guy just went with what Kornhole posted, or he had the same "source".

Also:

See what happens when people rely on "Sources"..... :thumbsup:

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS (http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100117/PSPORTS02/100119753/-1/PSPORTS)

Prowler, you still didn't "know shit."  

You were just wildly speculating.  

ANYDAMNFOOL with an Internet connection can post random shit from other websites and claim to know whatever.  You are ANYDAMN.

Farmer ANYDAMN. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 06:03:29 PM
One thing is for sure...If Eric Mack does come to Auburn on an unofficial with his friend for Junior Days or sometime before NSD, then Auburn will more than likely land him.  If he decides not to...then that's a pretty good sign, he'll be inking with USCe.  But, the Auburn Coaches will still be visiting him with their in-home visit...so, he could still be a possibility.  I said this two years ago....those that have a weak heart, or just weak minded (kaos), should just step away from the recruiting talk until Feb. 4th, because this is the time of year that the Recruiting Season gets crazy and it will, more than likely, be all over the place.

Auburn leads for one guy, ends up 4th on his list at the end (two days after leading), Auburn isn't on one guy's list, ends up inking with Auburn two days later.  Auburn coaches have been keeping an eye on a prospect, just in case the one that they have higher on their board decides to go elsewhere, and offers him the night before Signing Day.  Some of the prospects, that doesn't have an offer from Auburn, are known to have the coach's eyes....some aren't known and it may seem to be a plan C type of guy, but in reality it's a Plan B type of guy, because the coaches just didn't want the propsect's name to get out (wanted to keep him under the radar).
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 06:07:04 PM
Prowler, you still didn't "know shit."  

You were just wildly speculating.  

ANYDAMNFOOL with an Internet connection can post random shit from other websites and claim to know whatever.  You are ANYDAMN.

Farmer ANYDAMN. 
No, I don't just "wildly speculate" about recruiting.  Plus the Auburn coaches will still have an inhome visit with him, so even if he doesn't make it down this weekend....it won't be over, until he signs ("I don't know what the word 'No' means" - Coach Troop regarding recruiting).  Buy, hey...keep trying kaos, you'll get it one day  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 06:10:44 PM
One thing is for sure...If Eric Mack does come to Auburn on an unofficial with his friend for Junior Days or sometime before NSD, then Auburn will more than likely land him.  If he decides not to...then that's a pretty good sign, he'll be inking with USCe.  But, the Auburn Coaches will still be visiting him with their in-home visit...so, he could still be a possibility.  I said this two years ago....those that have a weak heart, or just weak minded (kaos), should just step away from the recruiting talk until Feb. 4th, because this is the time of year that the Recruiting Season gets crazy and it will, more than likely, be all over the place.

^^

Dumbass for:  This is the time of the year where anything Prowler says you can't hold him accountable for, because he's just yanking it out of his ass and doesn't want to be called on everything he's wrong about.  

This is doublespeak for "I'm going to just make shit completely up (as usual) and if whatever I say turns out to by some coincidence be moderately accurate, I'm going to claim  'being in the know' but for all that other shit that I just make up that doesn't come about, you can't pin that on me."

Fuck a monkey, that's stupid.  Two kernels of corn and he thinks he's a farmer.  All that other shit is just fertilizer,   I guess.

I hate people with a case of the dumbass who aren't even cognizant enough to recognize it. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 06:20:32 PM
^^

Dumbass for:  This is the time of the year where anything Prowler says you can't hold him accountable for, because he's just yanking it out of his ass and doesn't want to be called on everything he's wrong about.  

This is doublespeak for "I'm going to just make shit completely up (as usual) and if whatever I say turns out to by some coincidence be moderately accurate, I'm going to claim  'being in the know' but for all that other shit that I just make up that doesn't come about, you can't pin that on me."

Fuck a monkey, that's stupid.  Two kernels of corn and he thinks he's a farmer.  All that other shit is just fertilizer,   I guess.

I hate people with a case of the dumbass who aren't even cognizant enough to recognize it. 
^^Weak Minded and 1 Millimeter away from having to wear a bicycle helmet at all times^^
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 06:45:33 PM
^^Weak Minded and 1 Millimeter away from having to wear a bicycle helmet at all times^^

Super fail.

You know what?  I've figured out why I grate on you and that other guy's nerves so badly.  First, I'm allergic to  dumbass. That's a problem because you leave too much of it laying around.  

You? You're allergic to logic and reason. It makes you babble.  Those sophomoric movie trailers you posted also make me question your thinking processes. One ancient zombie-type deal maybe, but you tossed three or four in there, some guaran-damn-teed to be fucktacular shitfests.  

So for the sake of your sanity, just go ahead and spew your moderately literate babble for a while.  I'm going to let you off the hook.  The laughing I do at you, I'll just do in private for a while.  

Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 17, 2010, 06:53:41 PM
The laughing I do at you, I'll just do in private for a while.  

First, Birdman.  Now this? 

Fuck a bunch of turning over new leaves.  This is bullshit.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 07:05:11 PM
First, Birdman.  Now this? 

Fuck a bunch of turning over new leaves.  This is bullshit.

Just going to give him a little respite.  It's pretty clear he's close to a psychotic break with all the laughable "I'm whippin' yore ass" comments he's made lately.  The dude is Charles from Reeltown.  He's Chucky. 

So I'll let him twist and spin for a while. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 17, 2010, 07:12:09 PM
Just going to give him a little respite.  It's pretty clear he's close to a psychotic break with all the laughable "I'm whippin' yore ass" comments he's made lately.  The dude is Charles from Reeltown.  He's Chucky. 

So I'll let him twist and spin for a while. 

Yeah.  I mean, I understand.  I just wasn't expected it to end so soon.  Especially not during the off season when I need it the most.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 07:56:43 PM
Just going to give him a little respite.  It's pretty clear he's close to a psychotic break with all the laughable "I'm whippin' yore ass" comments he's made lately.  The dude is Charles from Reeltown.  He's Chucky. 

So I'll let him twist and spin for a while. 
So the "psychotic crazy person" is whipping your ass...got it, that's all you needed to say.  BTW, there's only ONE Zombie-type movie that will be the top movies of 2010 and it was the ONLY one that I posted....not the three like you stated, keep trying dumbass  :thumbsup:  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 17, 2010, 08:11:29 PM
Just to inform those interested, Lattimore will be in Auburn this coming weekend on an unofficial visit. Oh, and yes, there is a 'rumor' that Mack will also be in Auburn on an unofficial visit with a Junior teammate.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 08:16:05 PM
Yeah.  I mean, I understand.  I just wasn't expected it to end so soon.  Especially not during the off season when I need it the most.

I'll come back around soon enough.  It's the old anthill kicking thing.  I swear I'm going to stop kicking them and then I see one that's big and puffy and I just can't help it.  I kick it and the ants start running again. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 08:17:58 PM
I'll come back around soon enough.  It's the old anthill kicking thing.  I swear I'm going to stop kicking them and then I see one that's big and puffy and I just can't help it.  I kick it and the ants start running again. 
^^Weak minded and 1MM away from having to wear a bicycle helmet^^
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 17, 2010, 08:29:13 PM
I'll come back around soon enough.  It's the old anthill kicking thing.  I swear I'm going to stop kicking them and then I see one that's big and puffy and I just can't help it.  I kick it and the ants start running again. 

That might be the best analogy I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 08:40:27 PM
That might be the best analogy I've ever seen.

Serious question.  Why do you and RWS enjoy watching me kick the living shit out of Prowler and others?  Is it because you imagine the Auburn family to be infighting?  Is it because of the general humor aspect? 

I know that a few get tired of it -- and frankly there are times I get tired of wading through the mundane yabba-dabba-doo babbling -- but there are always a few who get a sick sense of enjoyment out of it. 

If it's just because you like to see two Auburn people disagreeing, then it's really not worth the effort.  If it's because you like to see Auburn people come off like the typical Bama rabble they claim to hate, well then there are lessons to be learned there, too.

Do you enjoy the Chopper/RWS bumble-fests as well?
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 17, 2010, 09:07:49 PM
Serious question.  Why do you and RWS enjoy watching me kick the living poop out of Prowler and others?  Is it because you imagine the Auburn family to be infighting?  Is it because of the general humor aspect?  

I know that a few get tired of it -- and frankly there are times I get tired of wading through the mundane yabba-dabba-doo babbling -- but there are always a few who get a sick sense of enjoyment out of it.  

If it's just because you like to see two Auburn people disagreeing, then it's really not worth the effort.  If it's because you like to see Auburn people come off like the typical Bama rabble they claim to hate, well then there are lessons to be learned there, too.

Do you enjoy the Chopper/RWS bumble-fests as well?

It really has nothing to do with the "Auburn family fighting".  Don't get me wrong now, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the 2008 season.  But it was more because of people like WarTiger and WarTim that made it so sweet.  

It's also not seeing Auburn people come off like the typical Bama rabble they claim to hate, because I know they exist even if some refuse to believe it.  I see it every day.  I have considered taking a picture of this one guy (no teeth, no education) but he's had a hard life and I'm not really into embarrassing people who don't ask for it.

If I had to narrow it down....grandiloquence.  I'm a huge fan of it.

And to answer the last question.  No.  Too much bullpoop and not enough substance.  No offense RWS if you're reading this, but you write a phuking book about nothing.  It's not that I think RWS is wrong on his opinions, he just uses too many words to back up his position.  Sometimes you just got to let your opinion stand by itself.  If it's wrong, so be it.  If nobody gives a poop (which I feel is the case most times) then at least you didn't just waste 30 minutes on a response.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: RWS on January 17, 2010, 09:18:45 PM
It really has nothing to do with the "Auburn family fighting".  Don't get me wrong now, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the 2007 season.  But it was more because of people like WarTiger and WarTim that made it so sweet.  

It's also not seeing Auburn people come off like the typical Bama rabble they claim to hate, because I know they exist even if some refuse to believe it.  I see it every day.  I have considered taking a picture of this one guy (no teeth, no education) but he's had a hard life and I'm not really into embarrassing people who don't ask for it.

If I had to narrow it down....grandiloquence.  I'm a huge fan of it.

And to answer the last question.  No.  Too much bullpoop and not enough substance.  No offense RWS if you're reading this, but you write a phuking book about nothing.  It's not that I think RWS is wrong on his opinions, he just uses too many words to back up his position.  Sometimes you just got to let your opinion stand by itself.  If it's wrong, so be it.  If nobody gives a poop (which I feel is the case most times) then at least you didn't just waste 30 minutes on a response.
I'm with this. Even in response to my own posts. I'm longwinded, and sometimes I run something into the ground; but at least I can identify that. Alot of the times I do that with Chopper because its almost as if you have to. Its like you have to repeat your point 2 or 3 times, and with different wording, to get thru to him. But I do get long winded with others as well.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 09:22:00 PM
It really has nothing to do with the "Auburn family fighting".  Don't get me wrong now, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the 2007 season.  But it was more because of people like WarTiger and WarTim that made it so sweet.  

It's also not seeing Auburn people come off like the typical Bama rabble they claim to hate, because I know they exist even if some refuse to believe it.  I see it every day.  I have considered taking a picture of this one guy (no teeth, no education) but he's had a hard life and I'm not really into embarrassing people who don't ask for it.

If I had to narrow it down....grandiloquence.  I'm a huge fan of it.

And to answer the last question.  No.  Too much bullpoop and not enough substance.  No offense RWS if you're reading this, but you write a phuking book about nothing.  It's not that I think RWS is wrong on his opinions, he just uses too many words to back up his position.  Sometimes you just got to let your opinion stand by itself.  If it's wrong, so be it.  If nobody gives a poop (which I feel is the case most times) then at least you didn't just waste 30 minutes on a response.

Congratulations.  It's rare that I get stumped on a word, but that one threw me and I had to look it up.  I am fan of that word as well.

Kind of like "gargantuan."  You know, I've always liked that word... ā€¯gargantuan"... so rarely have an opportunity to use it in a sentence.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2010, 09:32:05 PM
I'm with this. Even in response to my own posts. I'm longwinded, and sometimes I run something into the ground; but at least I can identify that.  

The problem with arguing with either of the two prime offenders on our side of the street is that they can't stay anywhere remotely close to topic.  

You can't debate whether Saban should use all the blasphemies he does.  It always has to get into some personal side shit, pictures of monkeys clapping cymbals or a hundred other topics that are all mostly irrelevant and extraneous.  It's not a purposeful tactic because that would indicate some overarching plan, but it's just the nature of the beast, so to speak. Kind of like Alabama isn't satisfied with winning, they (collectively) feel the need to bury Auburn at the same time, the primary offenders aren't satisfied with winning (or losing) a point. They have to try to discredit everything about their opposition. This is often (and usually) a spectacular failure, but it does drive the discussions into longer and longer blathering discourse as each party tries to answer each (ridiculous and unrelated) point the opposition attempts to make in the ever-expanding scope of the so-called discussion.  

It's like how every argument with that bitch you hated before you broke up always ended up in the same place no matter how hard you tried to stay on point.  It might start over who left the milk out, but it always ends up going back to where you were fucking her sister and she forgave you.  Like people can't make mistakes.

Any "argument" with Chopper or Prowler (sorry guys, but it's true) is never a battle that stands on its own, you've always got to go back and win the entire war all over again.  And it's rarely worth it unless it's used as I use it, for my own enjoyment and amusement.  

Oh and before I forget, let me go ahead and fire a pre-emptive "this is funny coming from you" strike before that dud grenade gets launched. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 17, 2010, 09:39:48 PM
I'm with this. Even in response to my own posts. I'm longwinded, and sometimes I run something into the ground; but at least I can identify that. Alot of the times I do that with Chopper because its almost as if you have to. Its like you have to repeat your point 2 or 3 times, and with different wording, to get thru to him. But I do get long winded with others as well.

The more words you put in a report, the more chances you give a cocksucker(attorney) to focus on poop that doesn't matter.

Short.  Sweet.  To the point.  The rest is just bullpoop that isn't impressing anyone.  


http://www.logicalfallacies.info/ (http://www.logicalfallacies.info/)

Also, learn that shit.  ^^
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 17, 2010, 10:03:25 PM
The more words you put in a report, the more chances you give a cocksucker(attorney) to focus on shit that doesn't matter.

Short.  Sweet.  To the point.  The rest is just bullshit that isn't impressing anyone.  
Taking notes kaos?
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on January 17, 2010, 11:44:31 PM
You just keep on keeping on.  This obviously means a lot more to you to constantly make sure everyone knows how much smarter you are than me.  You got it.  You win.   

I've got way too many more important things going on personally than to worry about how God damned awesome Kaos is on a fucking football board.   So enough is enough.  My "war" with you ends, tonight.

I can only hope that the people that subscribe to your way of thinking, and enjoy your way of harrassment, attacking and misrepresentation eventually get the picture and move on.  

I promise you, Kaos, for every Auburn man you think you represent, there's a dozen more that would have nothing to do with the way you act on this board.    
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 18, 2010, 12:20:24 AM
Just to inform those interested, Lattimore will be in Auburn this coming weekend on an unofficial visit. Oh, and yes, there is a 'rumor' that Mack will also be in Auburn on an unofficial visit with a Junior teammate.

Somehow in the mist of the 'in-fighting' the facts have been overlooked, tis why I quoted myself. To add to this, Mack making an unofficial visit next weekend is stock that is rising. All this from the recruitnik/media/skreets that owned the visor that Mack and others were sporting in recent pics. Oh yeah, this is the same skreets that Prowler spends his time on. So while some of you guys are kicking up the dirt, take notice that the skreets are legit and no its not a pay site. It really is ridiculous that you guys want to phuk with somebody that is on here sharing the info that is just being passed along from those that are actually in the know. Im not gonna pretend I know all kinds of poop about cruiten because I dont, I just know somebody who does and has the connections.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Token on January 18, 2010, 12:53:42 AM
Somehow in the mist of the 'in-fighting' the facts have been overlooked, tis why I quoted myself. To add to this, Mack making an unofficial visit next weekend is stock that is rising. All this from the recruitnik/media/skreets that owned the visor that Mack and others were sporting in recent pics. Oh yeah, this is the same skreets that Prowler spends his time on. So while some of you guys are kicking up the dirt, take notice that the skreets are legit and no its not a pay site. It really is ridiculous that you guys want to phuk with somebody that is on here sharing the info that is just being passed along from those that are actually in the know. Im not gonna pretend I know all kinds of poop about cruiten because I dont, I just know somebody who does and has the connections.

Fuck that noise.

I can only hope that the people that subscribe to your way of thinking, and enjoy your way of harrassment, attacking and misrepresentation eventually get the picture and move on.   

For the record, it's not the harassment, the reasons or the people.  It's the delivery.  The shit is funny.  Just like it was funny when Galen was blasting Bama fans on AUN.    Or when Galen was mangling AUN mods during the board war. 

I find his rhetoric highly entertaining.  It's not personal. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Jumbo on January 18, 2010, 04:06:51 AM
Somehow in the mist of the 'in-fighting' the facts have been overlooked, tis why I quoted myself. To add to this, Mack making an unofficial visit next weekend is stock that is rising. All this from the recruitnik/media/skreets that owned the visor that Mack and others were sporting in recent pics. Oh yeah, this is the same skreets that Prowler spends his time on. So while some of you guys are kicking up the dirt, take notice that the skreets are legit and no its not a pay site. It really is ridiculous that you guys want to phuk with somebody that is on here sharing the info that is just being passed along from those that are actually in the know. Im not gonna pretend I know all kinds of poop about cruiten because I dont, I just know somebody who does and has the connections.
I read your post twice, I skipped throught the rest of the bullshit in this thread. I hope the skreets pave a way to Lattimore.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: The Prowler on January 18, 2010, 06:19:19 AM
I read your post twice, I skipped throught the rest of the bullshit in this thread. I hope the skreets pave a way to Lattimore.
In layman's terms...Da Skreets are Legit.  Also, Eric Mack should be coming in this weekend.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 18, 2010, 08:35:02 AM
I do think we get Lattimore but man, I really dont have a good feeling bout Mack. I mean the kid really wants to stay close to his kid. I guess the only question is, how much difference is there from his home and to Auburn and from his home to USCe.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: AuburnChopper 3.0 on January 18, 2010, 08:56:40 AM
For the record, it's not the harassment, the reasons or the people.  It's the delivery.  The shit is funny.  Just like it was funny when Galen was blasting Bama fans on AUN.    Or when Galen was mangling AUN mods during the board war.  

I find his rhetoric highly entertaining.  It's not personal.  

Let me just say, that when and if you become the target of Kaos's non-stop, personal attacks, mischaracterizations, or until you have to listen how stupid you are for a period of years, regardless of how often you've made it clear that you don't subscribe to that particular brand of humor....  Maybe then, you'll understand how tiring it is.

It's probably entertaining, but to some, and to me, it's worn the fuck out.  He SAYS it's not personal.  He SAYS he'll stop.  He never does, and he keeps it personal.  Calling someone fucking stupid and bringing them up in post after post after post after post to fuck with them, IS making it personal.  I JUST want to talk about Auburn football, not get caught up in the constant, I'm smarter than you, go fuck yourself merry-go-round that he makes this.

There are people here that WANT to have that kind of fun with him.  There are people that enjoy the "rhetoric".  I can't make it any more clear, that I do NOT.  If it's not personal, he should be able to stop the personal attacks and keep the disagreements with me on a parrallel with the subject matter.  

Fuck it, it'll never stop.  This is just a fucking waste of time.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 18, 2010, 09:22:00 AM
Somehow in the mist of the 'in-fighting' the facts have been overlooked, tis why I quoted myself. To add to this, Mack making an unofficial visit next weekend is stock that is rising. All this from the recruitnik/media/skreets that owned the visor that Mack and others were sporting in recent pics. Oh yeah, this is the same skreets that Prowler spends his time on. So while some of you guys are kicking up the dirt, take notice that the skreets are legit and no its not a pay site. It really is ridiculous that you guys want to phuk with somebody that is on here sharing the info that is just being passed along from those that are actually in the know. Im not gonna pretend I know all kinds of poop about cruiten because I dont, I just know somebody who does and has the connections.

You're crazy. 

But I like it. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: Kaos on January 18, 2010, 09:28:05 AM
You just keep on keeping on.  This obviously means a lot more to you to constantly make sure everyone knows how much smarter you are than me.  You got it.  You win.   

I've got way too many more important things going on personally than to worry about how God damned awesome Kaos is on a fucking football board.   So enough is enough.  My "war" with you ends, tonight.

I can only hope that the people that subscribe to your way of thinking, and enjoy your way of harrassment, attacking and misrepresentation eventually get the picture and move on.  

I promise you, Kaos, for every Auburn man you think you represent, there's a dozen more that would have nothing to do with the way you act on this board.    

I kind of know where you are right now and wasn't attempting to "fuck with you" at all. 

Your name came up only in the context of the big explosive discussions which you have had at various times with several people, not just me.

I only represent myself.  Never claimed to be the paragon of anything for anybody. I only speak for myself.  I'll leave the thinking they speak for the majority to other people.   I am pretty awesome though.  Wouldn't have chosen to blaspheme my awesomeness, but it's definitely there. 
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: djsimp on January 18, 2010, 10:26:01 AM
You're crazy. 

But I like it. 

Crazy is fine with me, I've been called worse. For instance, during Christmas my daughter calls me Mr. HoHo.
Title: Re: Okay recruitnicks...your thoughts please
Post by: jadennis on January 18, 2010, 02:07:44 PM
Grandiloquence...this is a great word.  I thought this description (below) of this type of rhetoric to be pretty applicable to some posts on this board....

"an army of pompous phrases moving across the landscape in search of an idea" 

Pretty funny.

As for Mack and Lattimore...

I think Mack is 75% SC 25% Auburn.  Take his kid out of it and he'd already be an Auburn commit.  But I feel that in the end, being closer to family will win out and the 25% for Auburn is only there because he really wishes he could go there...but won't.

I think Lattimore is 50/50, and if you take being closer to friends and family out of it, he'd also already be committed to Auburn.  But he doesn't have the same ties in Carolina as Mack does with a child, so he's a toss up. 

I'm sure they both realize that if they have NFL dreams, they can go through South Carolina just as easy as they can go through Auburn.  If you can play in the NFL, they don't care where you went to school.  Sidney Rice just caught 3 TDs from Favre yesterday.  Carolina has hardly been the place for QBs and WRs the last few years, yet, there he is, staring in the NFC Championship game next week catching balls from Favre.

The fact is, whether anyone else wants to acknowledge it, there has been much written and said about both of them to support them going to Auburn or South Carolina.  The fact is that they likely aren't sure yet themselves, so how can anyone else be sure?