Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => Signing Day => Topic started by: AUTailgatingRules on February 05, 2009, 07:02:23 PM
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We must play the best high school Football ever on the planet. I mean Bama's last 2 classes are heavily weighted with Alabama kids and they have been at the top of the recruiting rankings both years.
Are we really supposed to believe that Alabama has the best high school atheletes in the land?
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Yes, we have the best HS Football players on the planet.
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How about an actual answer instead of some bullshit?
No, we do not.
However, the last two years have seen a definite upswing in local talent.
Part of it is the Rivals method of calculating, I realize that. They weigh heavily which schools are recruiting players and the mere fact that Alabama has them on the list is worth (in Rival's estimation) additional star power.
But that's not all of it. It's kind of a perfect damn storm, really. Those fucktards are lucky like that. For the most part, as long as I've been alive anyway, Alabama has raked the state. Almost always "wins" the state recruiting battle. Auburn made its living in Georgia, Florida and certain in-state pockets of Tigerdom (like Mobile when Joe had it surrounded). In the late 70s and early 80s raking the state was HUGE because Alabama produced a good portion of top-shelf talent. Cornelius Bennett, Steadman Shealy, Johnny Musso, John Hannah, Bobby Humphrey... I could go on and on.
Things are cyclical, though. The in-state talent level dipped. Players like Tyler Watts and Brodie Stickman Croyle were the best the state had to offer. So when Alabama raked up the state as always, they didn't find much in the pile.
That pendulum has swung back to a degree now. There are some serious quality players in Alabama. The Turds are -- like always -- getting them. The difference now is that when they rake the state, there are some diamonds in the stack.
It's funny that Saban gets all this credit. Yeah, he's racking up in Alabama. What coach doesn't? It's just that during this particular slice in time, those players are more talented than they were five years ago. It would be the same if Shula was still there.
It will swing back again soon enough. I haven't seen what's coming up, but it won't remain like this for long. The state will go back through another talent drought. It happens.
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How about an actual answer instead of some bullshit?
Oh..we're back to serious now. Sorry. Please continue.
No, we do not.
However, the last two years have seen a definite upswing in local talent.
Part of it is the Rivals method of calculating, I realize that. They weigh heavily which schools are recruiting players and the mere fact that Alabama has them on the list is worth (in Rival's estimation) additional star power.
But that's not all of it. It's kind of a perfect damn storm, really. Those fucktards are lucky like that. For the most part, as long as I've been alive anyway, Alabama has raked the state. Almost always "wins" the state recruiting battle. Auburn made its living in Georgia, Florida and certain in-state pockets of Tigerdom (like Mobile when Joe had it surrounded). In the late 70s and early 80s raking the state was HUGE because Alabama produced a good portion of top-shelf talent. Cornelius Bennett, Steadman Shealy, Johnny Musso, John Hannah, Bobby Humphrey... I could go on and on.
Things are cyclical, though. The in-state talent level dipped. Players like Tyler Watts and Brodie Stickman Croyle were the best the state had to offer. So when Alabama raked up the state as always, they didn't find much in the pile.
That pendulum has swung back to a degree now. There are some serious quality players in Alabama. The Turds are -- like always -- getting them. The difference now is that when they rake the state, there are some diamonds in the stack.
It's funny that Saban gets all this credit. Yeah, he's racking up in Alabama. What coach doesn't? It's just that during this particular slice in time, those players are more talented than they were five years ago. It would be the same if Shula was still there.
It will swing back again soon enough. I haven't seen what's coming up, but it won't remain like this for long. The state will go back through another talent drought. It happens.
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I haven't seen what's coming up, but it won't remain like this for long. The state will go back through another talent drought.
The guys at Rivals and Scout say that the 2010 in state class will be weaker than the past few. Who knows though. A good portion could grow and mature and be better than to be expected or they could get worse.
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Kaos, I agree and very good analysis. I too believe that these recruiting sites tend to over rate the Bama in state signees. Seems like every year they have the be all end all of recruiting classes and most of the overhyped seem to dissapear never to be heard from again.
I've always contended that the 2nd best players in Florida match up or beat the best in Alabama. Same goes with Ga, California, and Texas. That is how Auburn has always been able to compete with Bama even when Bama wipes the floor with us in state.
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I've always contended that the 2nd best players in Florida match up or beat the best in Alabama. Same goes with Ga, California, and Texas. That is how Auburn has always been able to compete with Bama even when Bama wipes the floor with us in state.
Agree. :vn:
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My brother in law has been a high school coach around here for quite some time. He makes it a point to go to the Alabama finals (His teams aren't usually there) and the Georgia finals. Regardless of the year, there is NO comparison in the talent level. I just find it funny as hell when services like Rivals look at a kid from Gadsden AL. and proclaim him as the best DB in America. I've never seen 5 seconds of film on the guy and I'll emphatically state that's the biggest crock of bullshit I've ever heard.
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Ahem -
2009 - Out of the top 20 Alabama recruits (Rivals), 11 of them came from out of state.
2008 - Out of the top 20 Alabama recruits (Rivals), 10 of them came from out of state.
I really wish we could say that Bama's recruiting class were overrated. I really wish we could say that Rivals just pumped their stars because they want Saban and Bama to have enough hype to keep the machine rolling for years and years. But that's not the case. They're OWNING in recruiting. Alabama isn't guaranteed championships and victories because of this, but they will have a very talented team on the field each year.
I think we need to worry more about our own recruiting/coaching than how overrated Bama might be.
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I think the state of AL has better team talent. The state of GA has better individual talent. A lot of this has to do with Atlanta and the surrounding area. Where I live, we have two high schools within 1 mile of each other. These two high schools do well each year but cannot get over the hump in the playoffs.
Now back in Prattville, you have 1 high school that services the entire city. That is one city supporting and feeding the talent. Although they are building a new high school outside the city limits, I'm not sure how big of a drain this will be. But you see many more places in AL like Prattville than you do the high schools 1 mile apart like in GA. But when you look at the individual talent that comes from GA, you see some phenoms at certain positions on a team that just did not have great overall talent. Prattville played N. Gwinnet a couple of seasons ago at Crampton bowl in Montgomery. Wiped the floor with them 36-3. NGHS either made it to the championship game that year or one off. They will meet up again pre-season this year a the GA dome. That should be fun to see.
But overall, I think it's hard to look at a great team and determine if the individual talent is that great or not. But it is easier to see the individual talent on a good team with a great talent.
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Ahem -
2009 - Out of the top 20 Alabama recruits (Rivals), 11 of them came from out of state.
2008 - Out of the top 20 Alabama recruits (Rivals), 10 of them came from out of state.
I really wish we could say that Bama's recruiting class were overrated. I really wish we could say that Rivals just pumped their stars because they want Saban and Bama to have enough hype to keep the machine rolling for years and years. But that's not the case. They're OWNING in recruiting. Alabama isn't guaranteed championships and victories because of this, but they will have a very talented team on the field each year.
I think we need to worry more about our own recruiting/coaching than how overrated Bama might be.
The point of the post was not to belittle Bama's 2008 or 2009 classes. I just find it amazing that the recruiting services give such high evaluations to players from Alabama. It seems like every kid that Bama gets and alot of the ones we get are 4* and 5* from this state. I find it hard to believe that our little state has such a high number of outstanding players.
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The point of the post was not to belittle Bama's 2008 or 2009 classes. I just find it amazing that the recruiting services give such high evaluations to players from Alabama. It seems like every kid that Bama gets and alot of the ones we get are 4* and 5* from this state. I find it hard to believe that our little state has such a high number of outstanding players.
I agree, how many of these kids are being recruited by USC, Notre Dame, OSU?
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The point of the post was not to belittle Bama's 2008 or 2009 classes. I just find it amazing that the recruiting services give such high evaluations to players from Alabama. It seems like every kid that Bama gets and alot of the ones we get are 4* and 5* from this state. I find it hard to believe that our little state has such a high number of outstanding players.
Well, in that case...
Ahem -
According to the Rivals database, the following players from the state of Alabama have been in their top 100:
2002 - Ben Obumanu, Jason Allen, Montae Pitts (3)
2003 - Chad Jackson, Jayson Swain, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Castille (4)
2004 - Nikita Stover (1)
2005 - Chris Keys (1)
2006 - Andre Smith, Tim Hawthorne, Deantwan Whitehead, Earl Alexander (4)
Nick Saban arrives.
2007 - Rolando McClain, Kerry Murphy, Sidell Corley, Michael McNeil, Brandon Gibson* (5)
2008 - Julio Jones, Burton Scott, Tyler Love, Jerrell Harris, Mark Barron, William Green (6)
2009 - DJ Fluker, Dre Kirkpatrick, Nico Johnson, Tana Patrick (4)
*If I remember correctly, we were excited at Auburn when Gibson got moved into the Rivals100 towards the end of recruiting, but we didn't realize he had already committed to Bama.
It's also interesting that besides Andre Smith, Chad Jackson was the highest rated player from Alabama from 2002-2006 at #17. In 2008, Jones, Scott, Harris, and Tyler Love were all top 50 players. In 2009, Fluker, Kirkpatrick were both top 12 players with Johnson a top 35 player.
So, yes. According to Rivals, Alabama's talent level in the Rivals top 100 has definitely improved since Nick Saban's arrival.
More research: Rivals' ratings of players in the state of Alabama since 2003. 2002 was unavailable.
2003 - 1 five star, 8 four stars
2004 - Unavailable
2005 - 6 four stars
2006 - 1 five star, 13 four stars
Saban arrives.
2007 - 9 four stars
2008 - 3 five stars, 11 four stars
2009 - 3 five stars, 9 four stars
Once again, the state of Alabama's talent level appears to have increased since Saban's arrival.
My conclusion? Subscriptions.
Just like when Ron Zook was at Florida, it doesn't matter if you recruit the top rated players on recruiting websites. If you can't coach em up, it doesn't matter. The reality is that these players are rated based on stats, measurables, film, and performances at camps. Since most top (3 star 5.7-5 star 6.1) recruits have similar stats, measurables, and film, one of the biggest way to rate a player is their performance at camps where they compete against other top recruits. If they can still dominate at camp, then they must be better the players they compete against. My counterargument to that is Tim Tebow being outplayed by Chad Henne in the 2007 season's Capital One Bowl. If that bowl game was a camp, do you rate Henne over Tebow? And if you do, does it REALLY matter?
Recruiting rankings don't matter. Sometimes, and usually the top ten in the Rivals 100, the prospects are THAT good. Julio Jones is THAT good. But the rest are guys that really need to be coached up just like the high end 3 star guys.
So why do recruiting rankings anyway? Alabama fans have the most (if not, it's top three) subscribers on Rivals. There's also a lot of turnover on Rivals with subscribers, as a mod once said on a thread on the Rivals Recruiting board. Therefore, I have to believe that with Alabama's recent boost in fan-excitement over the hiring of Nick Saban, Rivals saw the opportunity to sell more subscriptions to one of the most rabid fanbases in the country. What's the difference in saying DJ Fluker is better than Morgan Moses? What's the big deal saying DJ Fluker is a top 3 prospect? He's a big time prospect and has the ability to be a big time player, but if they're going to have to put him somewhere, might as well put him in a position for Alabama fans to be excited and want to come read about it.