Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => Signing Day => Topic started by: Tiger Wench on February 02, 2011, 11:39:30 PM
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Tubs lands first top 20 class in Texas Tech history.
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Tubs lands first top 20 class in Texas Tech history.
War Tubs. Hope he makes them a consistent playah without the "gimmicky" wide open, throw it 70 times a game mentality.
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War Tubs. Hope he makes them a consistent playah without the "gimmicky" wide open, throw it 70 times a game mentality.
He fucking sucks at recruiting.
Carnell Williams told me that.
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He fucking sucks at recruiting.
Carnell Williams told me that.
He's not top 5....
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Wow...CTT can recruit in Texas? Wait, was his name linked to any HC jobs this year that got drawn out for weeks and weeks and weeks? Nope. Okay, maybe he has learned his lesson to not go Duck Hunting and have your name floated at every possible opening across the Country for long periods of time.
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War Tubs. Hope he makes them a consistent playah without the "gimmicky" wide open, throw it 70 times a game mentality.
And all while running the same offense as Leach did and being third in the country in passing attempts per game. Amazing, no?
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Wow...CTT can recruit in Texas? Wait, was his name linked to any HC jobs this year that got drawn out for weeks and weeks and weeks? Nope. Okay, maybe he has learned his lesson to not go Duck Hunting and have your name floated at every possible opening across the Country for long periods of time.
You assholes sure didn't mind it when he was beating the piss out of us year in and year out, and out recruiting us. He was pretty fucking viable then. It showed how good of a coach he was that everybody wanted him. Right?
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He fucking sucks at recruiting.
Carnell Williams told me that.
Wow....recruiting in Texas. Real hard. All he had to do was fight with Aggie and smu for UT's leftovers. I don't think anyone argues with Tubs first 5 classes or so at Auburn. It's the last 5 COLLECTIVELY I take issue with. Project players, not going after the best, 4 stars that others saw through, a 40% + attrition rate which is extremely above average. One class having that is an accident. 3 or 4 together is a trend. A top 10 class in 06 don't mean squat if the players never play or develop. And whether you like it it not, that falls on the hc. He quit on us as fans. That ill never forget. No excuses.
Rws.....ever notice how we could never finish you off blowout style in those 6 games? Sure, I enjoyed it.....but we were beating up a retard. Notice what happened when Bama got their shit straight?
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This is where Kaos and I disagree a little about Tubs. Although I think that the majority of the reason he fights so hard is because a lot of people take such an opposite stance on how CTT recruited. Did he have some good classes absolutely, did he know how to recruit, again absolutely. The questions I had about his recruiting were more positional (evaluations of certain skill players), and he did seem to have a lot of non qualifiers.
I will say this though, what I have seen from Chiziks staff in the ability to make changes during a game, and just flat out coach. Is heads and shoulders above any combination of Tubs staffs. Not saying CTT himself, but the whole picture.
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This is where Kaos and I disagree a little about Tubs. Although I think that the majority of the reason he fights so hard is because a lot of people take such an opposite stance on how CTT recruited. Did he have some good classes absolutely, did he know how to recruit, again absolutely. The questions I had about his recruiting were more positional (evaluations of certain skill players), and he did seem to have a lot of non qualifiers.
I will say this though, what I have seen from Chiziks staff in the ability to make changes during a game, and just flat out coach. Is heads and shoulders above any combination of Tubs staffs staff in Auburn memory. Not saying CTT himself, but the whole picture.
Fixed it for you.
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Notice what happened when Bama got their poop straight?
yeah I noticed..................the series is 2-2 and one team was incapable of holding onto a 24 point lead in their own house.
WDE
:bar:
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yeah I noticed..................the series is 2-2 and one team was incapable of holding onto a 24 point lead in their own house.
WDE
:bar:
Nice one.
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This is where Kaos and I disagree a little about Tubs. Although I think that the majority of the reason he fights so hard is because a lot of people take such an opposite stance on how CTT recruited. Did he have some good classes absolutely, did he know how to recruit, again absolutely. The questions I had about his recruiting were more positional (evaluations of certain skill players), and he did seem to have a lot of non qualifiers.
I will say this though, what I have seen from Chiziks staff in the ability to make changes during a game, and just flat out coach. Is heads and shoulders above any combination of Tubs staffs. Not saying CTT himself, but the whole picture.
Next season, with a new QB and OL, many will revert back to calling Malzahns off. gimmicky HS crap that everyone has 'caught up with'.
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yeah I noticed..................the series is 2-2 and one team was incapable of holding onto a 24 point lead in their own house.
WDE
:bar:
1-2 since I'm being nice and giving Saban a pass on the year 1 de-Shulafication.
You failed to see my point. With tubs at the helm, they blew our doors off when they decided to hire a real coach and get some comparable players. Coach Sheila was easy picking.
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1-2 since I'm being nice and giving Saban a pass on the year 1 de-Shulafication.
You failed to see my point. With tubs at the helm, they blew our doors off when they decided to hire a real coach and get some comparable players. Coach Sheila was easy picking.
He dominated a 'down' bammer program, and held his own with the test of the league until the last 2 years. Bammer isnt the only team in the SEC.
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1-2 since I'm being nice and giving Saban a pass on the year 1 de-Shulafication.
You failed to see my point. With tubs at the helm, they blew our doors off when they decided to hire a real coach and get some comparable players. Coach Sheila was easy picking.
Chizik doesn't get that same one year pass? If so, he's undefeated.
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1-2 since I'm being nice and giving Saban a pass on the year 1 de-Shulafication.
You failed to see my point. With tubs at the helm, they blew our doors off when they decided to hire a real coach and get some comparable players. Coach Sheila was easy picking.
I did not miss the point................it is what it is, a'ight?
suffice it to say that there are those who are not happy with their ROI concerning Mr. Saban.
domination just aint what it use to be.
:bar:
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I did not miss the point................it is what it is, a'ight?
suffice it to say that there are those who are not happy with their ROI concerning Mr. Saban.
domination just aint what it use to be.
:bar:
Dammit you shut your mouth...they just won the Rivals Recruiting National Championship!
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You assholes sure didn't mind it when he was beating the piss out of us year in and year out, and out recruiting us. He was pretty fucking viable then. It showed how good of a coach he was that everybody wanted him. Right?
That has more to do with who y'all had as a HC(s) during that span, inregards to head to head recruiting battles. Every year, it seemed like, his name was being put on Universities "short list" and it would stay there for weeks, until they hired someone else. That's an easy negative recruiting tool, not just for SPuat, but for every coach in the Southeast.
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Love it, we just won the Natty ship, had a top ranked class on all services, still in a battle with the #1 OT in the nation and we still take shots at Tubs. :facepalm:
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Love it, we just won the Natty ship, had a top ranked class on all services, still in a battle with the #1 OT in the nation and we still take shots at Tubs. :facepalm:
Tubs is da debil.
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Love it, we just won the Natty ship, had a top ranked class on all services, still in a battle with the #1 OT in the nation and we still take shots at Tubs. :facepalm:
I didn't bring him up but since someone did, that's my view. I think winning the nc and bringing in back to back top 5 classes proves my point.
Chad - I think its safe to say Chiz had a lot of work to do in yr 1 to de-tubs Auburn so I would afford him the same leeway. In fact he probably had more on his plate. Remember the depth chart in 2009? Now, look at it. Yeah, I'd say he worked his ass off.
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Tubs is da debil.
And I like Vicki, and she like me back!
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And alligators are angry cause of their medulla oblongata.
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Love it, we just won the Natty ship, had a top ranked class on all services, still in a battle with the #1 OT in the nation and we still take shots at Tubs. :facepalm:
Prowler just can't help himself. He's that damn myopic.
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I didn't bring him up but since someone did, that's my view. I think winning the nc and bringing in back to back top 5 classes proves my point.
Chad - I think its safe to say Chiz had a lot of work to do in yr 1 to de-tubs Auburn so I would afford him the same leeway. In fact he probably had more on his plate. Remember the depth chart in 2009? Now, look at it. Yeah, I'd say he worked his ass off.
My point is, thank him for his time, what he did to de-bowden the team, wish him well and look at what is going on now.
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My point is, thank him for his time, what he did to de-bowden the team, wish him well and look at what is going on now.
Agree man. I hadn't really given him much thought lately before this thread
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Agree man. I hadn't really given him much thought lately before this thread
I haven't given him much thought since Coach Chizik said that we are going after the Top players in the Country regardless...our coaches don't understand the word "no", they're going to keep coming back. Breath of Fresh Air right there.
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And I like Vicki, and she like me back!
and she showed me her boobies and I like dem too
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My point is, thank him for his time, what he did to de-bowden the team, wish him well and look at what is going on now.
Precisely.
I hate (and will battle to the bitter end) those who take any opportunity to bash him. He was at AU 10 years. He gave us some great ones. Does no one remember the discussion of whether Auburn was in its greatest era that came along about 2006? Nobody recalls the demands to name something after him at about the same time the field was being named for Dye? No recollection of the debate over whether Tuberville was, in fact, the greatest of all modern-era coaches (I argued for Dye in that one, my memory can be hazy but some of the current bashers may have been the very same arguing for his elevation during that phase).
Historical perspective. Some lack it. I has it.
All I want is for us (collectively) to stop acting like immature punk ass brats. Give the man his due, thank him for the foundation he built at Auburn -- a foundation that helped us win the national championship, BTW -- and hope he enjoys success and happiness where he goes from here. No ill will. No need for it.
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Precisely.
I hate (and will battle to the bitter end) those who take any opportunity to bash him. He was at AU 10 years. He gave us some great ones. Does no one remember the discussion of whether Auburn was in its greatest era that came along about 2006? Nobody recalls the demands to name something after him at about the same time the field was being named for Dye? No recollection of the debate over whether Tuberville was, in fact, the greatest of all modern-era coaches (I argued for Dye in that one, my memory can be hazy but some of the current bashers may have been the very same arguing for his elevation during that phase).
Historical perspective. Some lack it. I has it.
All I want is for us (collectively) to stop acting like immature punk ass brats. Give the man his due, thank him for the foundation he built at Auburn -- a foundation that helped us win the national championship, BTW -- and hope he enjoys success and happiness where he goes from here. No ill will. No need for it.
I never had a problem with Tuberville and I still like him. I think it was just time to part ways. I appreciate everything he did for us. Some of his assistant coaches on the other hand...
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I never had a problem with Tuberville and I still like him. I think it was just time to part ways. I appreciate everything he did for us. Some of his assistant coaches on the other hand...
You shut your dirty whorish non-BBQ tasting mouth.
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You shut your dirty whorish non-BBQ tasting mouth.
But, I was never invited... And apparently neither were the WR's at the time...to any practice.
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My biggest problem with Tubs was his incessant flirting with the next best job out there. Whether this was media driven, agent driven, or he had actual interest, I got tired of spending the end of his last 4-5 years wondering if he was going to still be our coach.
Thanks for the 2004 and the streak but I'm glad he (and all his drama) are gone. Good luck at TT, I'm sure if you have a few good seasons you will be stringing TT along every year as well.
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But, I was never invited... And apparently neither were the WR's at the time...to any practice.
Pfft...they were at blocking practice every day.
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Precisely.
I hate (and will battle to the bitter end) those who take any opportunity to bash him. He was at AU 10 years. He gave us somei great ones. Does no one remember the discussion of whether Auburn was in its greatest era that came along about 2006? Nobody recalls the demands to name something after him at about the same time the field was being named for Dye? No recollection of the debate over whether Tuberville was, in fact, the greatest of all modern-era coaches (I argued for Dye in that one, my memory can be hazy but some of the current bashers may have been the very same arguing for his elevation during that phase).
Historical perspective. Some lack it. I has it.
All I want is for us (collectively) to stop acting like immature punk ass brats. Give the man his due, thank him for the foundation he built at Auburn -- a foundation that helped us win the national championship, BTW -- and hope he enjoys success and happiness where he goes from here. No ill will. No need for it.
Now where's my slow clap when I need it.
Oh, here it is......
:wartim: :wartim:
:fag: :fag:
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My biggest problem with Tubs was his incessant flirting with the next best job out there.
When your AD is visibly not in your corner and you're looking over your shoulder? Cuts both ways.
Was Tuberville a true AU man? I wasn't his best friend, but I know enough, saw enough and was told enough to know that he wanted to be. He was happy there, his family was happy there. The shit in 2003 was wrong, the wrong people took the heat and from that point on the relationship was frosty. Administration made it pretty clear they weren't going to reach across the table and embrace him. And he went insular.
Shit happens. I would have been fine with him going in 2003 if they'd done it right. Kudos to Tuberville for enduring that and emerging stronger. But even after 2004, the relationship didn't warm.
If you know your boss is biding time, waiting for you to screw up just enough for him to fire you and not make everybody else where you work mad, how would you handle it?
When did you know Gene Chizik was going to be head coach at Auburn, Jay?
The day he left for Texas.
That tells me all I need to know.
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When your AD is visibly not in your corner and you're looking over your shoulder? Cuts both ways.
Was Tuberville a true AU man? I wasn't his best friend, but I know enough, saw enough and was told enough to know that he wanted to be. He was happy there, his family was happy there. The shit in 2003 was wrong, the wrong people took the heat and from that point on the relationship was frosty. Administration made it pretty clear they weren't going to reach across the table and embrace him. And he went insular.
Shit happens. I would have been fine with him going in 2003 if they'd done it right. Kudos to Tuberville for enduring that and emerging stronger. But even after 2004, the relationship didn't warm.
If you know your boss is biding time, waiting for you to screw up just enough for him to fire you and not make everybody else where you work mad, how would you handle it?
When did you know Gene Chizik was going to be head coach at Auburn, Jay?
The day he left for Texas.
That tells me all I need to know.
That is pretty much dead nuts!
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That is pretty much dead nuts!
Somewhere, Snaggle just cringed.
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Somewhere, Snaggle just cringed.
Shit happens
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When your AD is visibly not in your corner and you're looking over your shoulder? Cuts both ways.
Was Tuberville a true AU man? I wasn't his best friend, but I know enough, saw enough and was told enough to know that he wanted to be. He was happy there, his family was happy there. The shit in 2003 was wrong, the wrong people took the heat and from that point on the relationship was frosty. Administration made it pretty clear they weren't going to reach across the table and embrace him. And he went insular.
Shit happens. I would have been fine with him going in 2003 if they'd done it right. Kudos to Tuberville for enduring that and emerging stronger. But even after 2004, the relationship didn't warm.
If you know your boss is biding time, waiting for you to screw up just enough for him to fire you and not make everybody else where you work mad, how would you handle it?
When did you know Gene Chizik was going to be head coach at Auburn, Jay?
The day he left for Texas.
That tells me all I need to know.
Which goes back to what autr said above. If he was getting mentioned for so many jobs and unhappy at Auburn, then why stay and Fuck things up? Sorry, but I'm selling here. That's a cop out. He got paid big bucks to do a job. And the last 3 years he had checked out. And as I have said to you in other attempts to debate this, in the end the fans and players got burned by his actions. It's not as rosey of a picture as you would like to paint about him. Well just agree to disagree here.
Besides, this issue is soooo..... :dead:
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And the last 3 years he had checked out.
Holy Revision, Batman!
2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally. 2006 AU went 11-2.
2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4.
Recruiting class was Top 20. Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force. 2008 AU was a disaster.
Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle.
If that's "giving up" fuck me. I need some people who work for me to give up, too.
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Holy Revision, Batman!
2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally. 2006 AU went 11-2.
2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4.
Recruiting class was Top 20. Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force. 2008 AU was a disaster.
Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle.
If that's "giving up" fuck me. I need some people who work for me to give up, too.
I would just like to take this time to point out that I worked personally with Coach Andy Lutz during the 2006 and 2007 recruiting seasons.
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I would say the only time I thought he gave up was 2008 and really I thought it happened after he fired Franklin. Did he get lax and complacent before that, I really don't know, I think his assistants definitely did.
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I would just like to take this time to point out that I worked personally with Coach Andy Lutz during the 2006 and 2007 recruiting seasons.
I guess you're the reason Tuberville sucked so bad at recruiting.
Texas Tech has, for the first time in history, a top 20 class. But that's only because it's so easy to recruit in Texas. Hell a monkey could recruit there. That's why they've had so many top 20 classes before Tuberville got there.
I enjoyed Tuberville's tenure at Auburn. There were times I wanted to kill him and times I wanted him to live forever. Nature of the beast. He was a good man, he turned out good men. He made the players who played for him better players and better human beings. He ran a clean program. Auburn is better for having known him.
I hope he does well at Texas Tech. And I hope that if we ever play him, we whip his red and black ass. But until then I will happily root for his success. If we're not in a position to win a NC, I hope he is.
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I would say the only time I thought he gave up was 2008 and really I thought it happened after he fired Franklin. Did he get lax and complacent before that, I really don't know, I think his assistants definitely did.
^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man. I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.
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Would this be considered a KISS catfish?
(http://filmnorthflorida.com/photos/Oak-Grove:-Carpenters-Catfish-Farm/thumbs/Oak-Grove:-Carpenters-Catfish-Farm_01bb.jpg.width.200.jpg)
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Holy Revision, Batman!
2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally. 2006 AU went 11-2.
2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4.
Recruiting class was Top 20. Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force. 2008 AU was a disaster.
Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle.
If that's "giving up" fuck me. I need some people who work for me to give up, too.
Try this:
(http://blog.sironaconsulting.com/.a/6a00d8341c761a53ef0120a4e52bcc970b-320wi)
You'll get better results.
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^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man. I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.
Tubs undoing was undying loyalty to a bunch of lazy fucks that thought they earned their keep in 2004, and had jobs for life, and did as far as Tubs was concerned. Tubs thought he had more capital than he actually did because of 2004.
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^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man. I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.
We're all in agreement there. The handwriting was 40-feet tall. It read.
"HA HA MOTHERFUCKER WE GOT YOU NOW!
When we blew that lead it was over. Over for the season, over for him, over for the assistants.
Given his history, I do believe he could have turned it around and done so quickly. He wasn't scared of Saban in the least. But that's irrelevant. The situation had reached the breaking point and it was best for him and for AU to leave. BTW? I wrote EXACTLY that in late November/early December 2008.
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^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man. I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.
No it was done...time to go.
But that brings up a point, and I think we have mentioned it before. All things come to an end, football coaches are never gonna last like Paterno, Bowden and Bahr. We are to much of a me first society...win ...win...win.
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Tubs undoing was undying loyalty to a bunch of lazy fucks that thought they earned their keep in 2004, and had jobs for life, and did as far as Tubs was concerned. Tubs thought he had more capital than he actually did because of 2004.
Oh JESUS. :facepalm:
This is as bad and misinformed as any of the drivel Prowler's ever written.
I'm letting the kite string go now before I bring the lightning.
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Holy Revision, Batman!
2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally. 2006 AU went 11-2.
2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4.
Recruiting class was Top 20. Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force. 2008 AU was a disaster.
Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle.
If that's "giving up" fuck me. I need some people who work for me to give up, too.
Not give up so much, but complacent. You wanna blame the admin. I think the hc is ultimately responsible. Again, that's where we disagree.
20 wins, 2 top 10 classes and then.....5-7? Wtf? That didn't happen overnight K. Something was wrong before then. The foundation was cracking. Who's responsible? That's the ultimate question. Nevermind we really haven't looked into each of those 2 classes in this discussion post nsd to see the attrition/impact of them in numbers. Hint: It ain't pretty. You also didn't look at sec records from 05 on, nor the lovely and inexcusable Arkansas/Georgia routes. There are lots of variables at play here. I have my opinion and you have yours......it is what it is.
I'll ping xaff for those attrition stats..... :thumsup:
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We're all in agreement there. The handwriting was 40-feet tall. It read.
"HA HA MOTHERFUCKER WE GOT YOU NOW!
When we blew that lead it was over. Over for the season, over for him, over for the assistants.
Given his history, I do believe he could have turned it around and done so quickly. He wasn't scared of Saban in the least. But that's irrelevant. The situation had reached the breaking point and it was best for him and for AU to leave. BTW? I wrote EXACTLY that in late November/early December 2008.
I don't think he was scared of Saban for a minute. He was dog tired...tired of doing all he could in 2004 just to be told "thanks for stopping by the BCS booth, here's your consolation prize", and tired of the PTB circling and looking for a reason. With support, he'd have turned it around, IF he had gotten the nuts to clean house and hire young hungry ACs like Chiz has done. Tubs was tired.
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Oh JESUS. :facepalm:
This is as bad and misinformed as any of the drivel Prowler's ever written.
I'm letting the kite string go now before I bring the lightning.
Bring it, I'll listen.
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Bring it, I'll listen.
Hugh Nall wasn't the problem. Terry Price wasn't. Don Dunn wasn't. James Willis? Maybe not great, but he was pretty good.
I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...
let's see what was that...
hmm..
oh yeah...
until Tony Franklin was hired.
That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.
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I don't think he was scared of Saban for a minute. He was dog tired...tired of doing all he could in 2004 just to be told "thanks for stopping by the BCS booth, here's your consolation prize", and tired of the PTB circling and looking for a reason. With support, he'd have turned it around, IF he had gotten the nuts to clean house and hire young hungry ACs like Chiz has done. Tubs was tired.
We've had this round and round how many times? I'm on one end, Kevins on the other, you are somewhere in the middle Jim. We all feel the same as we did 2 years ago. Nothing is gonna change those opinions. You'd be best to heed your own advice above with the wall. Dead nuts as a wise man once said.
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Hugh Nall wasn't the problem. Terry Price wasn't. Don Dunn wasn't. James Willis? Maybe not great, but he was pretty good.
I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...
let's see what was that...
hmm..
oh yeah...
until Tony Franklin was hired.
That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.
Hugh Nall = great OL coach, but you hit the nail on the head...he quit, mentally, emotionally, or whatever, he gave it up in 2008, and if he didn't lead the mutiny, he was a big part.
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Both schools of thought are right. CTT was not the end all be all that Kaos makes him out to be (he acknowledges that) but mostly comes on defend him against those that were in love with him and now consider him Terry Bowden esque in his tenure. Bottom line was that he brought us out of one of the worst coaching hires (outside of Barfield) and made our program relevant again.
His attrition rates for keeping players the last few years was bad, we had some really bad blow-out losses, he was very conservative. He had a tendency to be loyal (bad?)
He also won 6 Iron Bowls in a row and coached an Auburn team that could be considered one of the best in history. He had an 85-40 record (68%...Dye had a 71% WR), took us to a bowl game 8 out of the 10 years, winning 5. He graduated players.
I would say he did pretty much everything we asked of him. It was time for him to move on, and he did. I wish him well, he should always be in our books as a coach. I don't wish him ill and I really don't care about Texas Tech.
Other than that we have a new coach. Here is a picture of him:
(http://kicks105.com/files/2011/01/Gene-Chizik-266x400.jpg)
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Hugh Nall wasn't the problem. Terry Price wasn't. Don Dunn wasn't. James Willis? Maybe not great, but he was pretty good.
I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...
let's see what was that...
hmm..
oh yeah...
until Tony Franklin was hired.
That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.
So what was the problem in 01? Ah yes, Noel Mazzone. Fired. Or 03? Ah, Nall just wasn't cutting it as oc. That's ok. Well demote him back down and bring in Borges. Wow, he's great...undefeated first season. Or end of 09 when Borges was fired? Wasn't he the problem? Or was he not just the savior in 04?
Look for the common denominators here.
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Both schools of thought are right. CTT was not the end all be all that Kaos makes him out to be (he acknowledges that) but mostly comes on defend him against those that were in love with him and now consider him Terry Bowden esque in his tenure. Bottom line was that he brought us out of one of the worst coaching hires (outside of Barfield) and made our program relevant again.
His attrition rates for keeping players the last few years was bad, we had some really bad blow-out losses, he was very conservative. He had a tendency to be loyal (bad?)
He also won 6 Iron Bowls in a row and coached an Auburn team that could be considered one of the best in history. He had an 85-40 record (68%...Dye had a 71% WR), took us to a bowl game 8 out of the 10 years, winning 5. He graduated players.
I would say he did pretty much everything we asked of him. It was time for him to move on, and he did. I wish him well, he should always be in our books as a coach. I don't wish him ill and I really don't care about Texas Tech.
Other than that we have a new coach. Here is a picture of him:
(http://kicks105.com/files/2011/01/Gene-Chizik-266x400.jpg)
Nuttz...dead.
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So what was the problem in 01? Ah yes, Noel Mazzone. Fired. Or 03? Ah, Nall just wasn't cutting it as oc. That's ok. Well demote him back down and bring in Borges. Wow, he's great...undefeated first season. Or end of 09 when Borges was fired? Wasn't he the problem? Or was he not just the savior in 04?
Look for the common denominators here.
While you're at it, look and see how that's any different from any other coach, or program out there. You can't win them all every year...using every season that didn't result in a championship as evidence he sux? Ok, then all coaches suck except at that moment they're just coming off a national championship.
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Chizik keeps his staff together. Awesome shit, baby. They love AU. Continuity. Damn straight!
Tuberville keeps his staff together. Fucking leeches. BBQ chowing bastards. Nobody wants them.
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Chizik keeps his staff together. Awesome shit, baby. They love AU. Continuity. Damn straight!
Tuberville keeps his staff together. Fucking leeches. BBQ chowing bastards. Nobody wants them.
The difference here is that I believe Chizik's staff overall is an upgrade from Tuberville's. That's not to say every coach is better, but I don't remember Hugh Nall getting interviewed at a school like Texas during his tenure at Auburn.
Plus, we haven't seen how Chizik will handle the loss of a coordinator yet.
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Chizik keeps his staff together. Awesome shit, baby. They love AU. Continuity. Damn straight!
Tuberville keeps his staff together. Fucking leeches. BBQ chowing bastards. Nobody wants them.
What the Ginger Ogre said, plus Tubs staff got complacent, same thing could happen with Chiziks staff. If it happens they needs to go.
and the only person I had a problem with on Tubs staff was Knox our WR coach and we had no offensive coordinator.
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What the Ginger Ogre said, plus Tubs staff got complacent, same thing could happen with Chiziks staff. If it happens they needs to go.
and the only person I had a problem with on Tubs staff was Knox our WR coach and we had no offensive coordinator.
Knox. Yep. Booooo!
Borges! Yay. Petrino! Yay.
But by the estimation of some, when you remove coordinators who don't function well or grow complacent, that's a weakness. A failure.
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we had no offensive coordinator.
I should clarify that I meant at the time of his demise/departure.
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I think a real test of Chizik will be when he loses Malzahn. Chizik has put together an unbelievable staff, but I would like to see how he hires the next guy. I hope it doesn't happen for at least two years, because I think we can make some noise again in 2012...
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I think a real test of Chizik will be when he loses Malzahn. Chizik has put together an unbelievable staff, but I would like to see how he hires the next guy. I hope it doesn't happen for at least two years, because I think we can make some noise again in 2012...
fuck da noise..I wants to bring da pain.
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As much misery as CTT caused Alabama fans, I still would have loved to have him as a coach at Alabama at the time.
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I think a real test of Chizik will be when he loses Malzahn. Chizik has put together an unbelievable staff, but I would like to see how he hires the next guy. I hope it doesn't happen for at least two years, because I think we can make some noise again in 2012...
This is where I'm at with Chizik. I think he's the perfect ying to the yang, that is the lockstep type machine at Alabama. I believe he lives what he preaches. He's shown himself to be a much better CEO type coach in handling the program that probably ANY of us figured. However, I also believe that with that comes a lot of actual coaching support from an unbelievable staff. I think Tuberville was in a very similar situation in every regard, just like Chizik is now, except when it came time to hire, then rehire, then rehire again, it got progressively worse. The staff at the end clearly, CLEARLY did not have the chemistry it had in '04, or even '06 for that matter.
As far as the support, or lack of it, from trustees and others, I think once it got bad, it got bad from both sides. I fault both for acting like fools for the way that all went down. I also think it was that horrible taste in the mouth that lead most folks on here to NOT trust Jacobs when Chizik was hired. People didn't like the hire on it's own merit, but it was made even worse by the bullshit attitude around the athletic complex and program at the time.
I just think that the perceived laziness, tagged on Tuberville was actually a summation of a few years of genuine frustration as a whole. Saban's success in-state, lack of support from Auburn and it's trustees, trouble at home, you name it, Tuberville was dealing with it. He just didn't have a staff with the chemistry to over come it at the end, and everyone, including the fans suffered for it.
It was great times. It was bad times. Both sides here have merit to feel the way they do.
Personally, I'm glad it's over. I still sport my Tuberville autographed football, right next to my Chizik football, and look at them equally proud.
JMO...
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I just think that the perceived laziness, tagged on Tuberville was actually a summation of a few years of genuine frustration as a whole.
11-2. 9-4.
Nobody was really frustrated until 5-8. Fact is, we went into 2008 thinking we had a great shot at winning the SEC and an outside shot at winning it all. Kodi Burns was going to be the next Dameyune Jason Sullivan Slack. With wheels. He'd proved that in the Chick-Fil-A. Franklin's wild and crazy offense was the final piece in the puzzle. It was going to give the tried and true Tuberville defense offensive production to match. We'd had two awesome years of recruiting and stomped Bama's ass into a mudhole on the trail. Would take them years and years to catch up no matter what Saban did. We were: Unstoppable.
Maybe you guys don't remember that. I damn sure do.
And that's what irks me the most. This "years of frustration" and "couldn't recruit" and all that other repetitive bullshit that some of you guys cling to like the last life raft on the Titanic? Yeah, that didn't show up until AFTER the loss to Vandy. THEN you knew it all along. THEN you'd been frustrated for years. THEN it had been building, he ate too much BBQ, he was too loyal to assistants (the same guys you were shitting your pants over fears they might leave -- except for Knox who we all wanted gone), he spent too much time duck hunting, blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-dah.
Maybe you don't remember. I damn sure do.
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11-2. 9-4.
Nobody was really frustrated until 5-8. Fact is, we went into 2008 thinking we had a great shot at winning the SEC and an outside shot at winning it all. Kodi Burns was going to be the next Dameyune Jason Sullivan Slack. With wheels. He'd proved that in the Chick-Fil-A. Franklin's wild and crazy offense was the final piece in the puzzle. It was going to give the tried and true Tuberville defense offensive production to match. We'd had two awesome years of recruiting and stomped Bama's ass into a mudhole on the trail. Would take them years and years to catch up no matter what Saban did. We were: Unstoppable.
Maybe you guys don't remember that. I damn sure do.
And that's what irks me the most. This "years of frustration" and "couldn't recruit" and all that other repetitive bullshit that some of you guys cling to like the last life raft on the Titanic? Yeah, that didn't show up until AFTER the loss to Vandy. THEN you knew it all along. THEN you'd been frustrated for years. THEN it had been building, he ate too much BBQ, he was too loyal to assistants (the same guys you were shitting your pants over fears they might leave -- except for Knox who we all wanted gone), he spent too much time duck hunting, blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-dah.
Maybe you don't remember. I damn sure do.
I remember. I agree with what you're saying even. My comment about "years of frustration" was in reference to Tuberville himself. He showed "years of frustration" at the end in my opinion. Probably for a wide variety of reasons.
I don't disagree with your statement about no-body really being frustrated until 5-8. I think it's just easy for some to say that it was heading that way because of the sometimes, too typical blow-out losses and ultra-conservative second halves that cost us in certain situations, even in years before 5-8.
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While you're at it, look and see how that's any different from any other coach, or program out there. You can't win them all every year...using every season that didn't result in a championship as evidence he sux? Ok, then all coaches suck except at that moment they're just coming off a national championship.
The point was that there was always that same stale group of folks he had around him he would refuse to part with. Everyone else seemed to get the ax though. He could have done the right thing at the end and cleaned house like Mack Brown, but nope. He wouldnt do it. Funny how Borges got the ax after a few good years but Nall fucked up and never lost his job once under Tubs. This is what I mean. Aka - the BBQ boys.
I think we agree here JR.
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The point was that there was always that same stale group of folks he had around him he would refuse to part with. Everyone else seemed to get the ax though. He could have done the right thing at the end and cleaned house like Mack Brown, but nope. He wouldnt do it. Funny how Borges got the ax after a few good years but Nall fucked up and never lost his job once under Tubs. This is what I mean. Aka - the BBQ boys.
I think we agree here JR.
My gripe was never with all those guys staying. However, in the end, they quit on him. I never thought they sucked, or couldn't coach, but in 2008, they mutinied on him and still thought they should survive it. THAT is where I got crossways with all those guys. And Tubs loyalty to them allowed that to happen. I think that's where Kevin misunderstands my stance on that loyalty. Keep the good ones around as long as they perform, but you can't be so loyal that you allow them to mutiny over a hire they disagreed with. They should have given it their all for 2008, then run Franklin off and started over, just like they did with the Nallsminger debacle in 2003. Nall was given his shot to run an offense, with some talent mind you, and it failed miserably. He of all should have been tolerant of an OC that he didn't agree with. If nothing else he just should have done the best job he could in 2008. Young though they were, that was mostly the same OL that was stellar this past year, and it wasn't because Nall couldn't coach them that they sucked in 2008, it was because he didn't coach them. Friends or not, that can't be tolerated, and that's all meant by undying loyalty, not that they should have been run off before that, except Knox of course.
BTW, Borges go the axe for a number of reasons, none of which I agreed with really. Namely being folks chirp a lot about "scheme" being to blame, and coordinators are the natural targets when things don't go like some think they should, despite the fact that Auburn was "down in 2007" with a 9-4 season. He was working with the least talent he'd had. The only players on that offense to win any awards or honors were Ziemba and Pugh, both Fr. Cox was playing injured a portion of the time. He had little to work with. And it was the beginning of the Saban era, and Tubs was trying to give recruiting a shot in the arm with a "novel" OC hire. Might possibly have been a good move, IF Tubs had let Franklin work and made the other coaches coach for him, but it was doomed to fail under the circumstances.
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Hey Kaos...wanna bring up those recruiting classes again? He had two or three really good to great recruiting classes. Just take a quick look at them and you'll notice the players that didn't make it in were the ones that made it so highly ranked. Also, if you're going to bring up recruiting classes you should also take into account the needs for the classes. I've stated this before and I'll state it again, whenever you fail to bring in more than 3 quality offensive linemen in a three year span, you will have problems a few years down the road, which is where we are right now.
I remember us going up against the Troy Universities of the College World and saying that CTT will coach them up, we don't need top-tier players at Auburn. Yeah, whenever you have a coach like Knox or Ensminger, you had better have a fuck load of top-tier players at their position.
I really liked Coach Tuberville and defended him against all the bammers, but I grew very, very tired of him and/or Jimmy Sexton flirting around starting at the end of the '05 season. Remember the Arkansas News Stations saying that he was going to be announced as the new HC the next day and Coach Tuberville was off Hunting....in Arkansas? Yeah, that's when I decided that I'd had enough. I was somewhat happy that he didn't take the job, not so much because I wanted him back but because I loved seeing all of the little piggies with egg all over their faces. That's also when I started noticing a painful trend of signing a Top 15 class only to have about 30-40% of that class, that made it so great, not qualify. Also, Nick Fairley signed with Coach Chizik staff. He would've never ever become the player that we now remember him as, under Coach Tuberville. He would've been an Offensive Lineman.
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My gripe was never with all those guys staying. However, in the end, they quit on him. I never thought they sucked, or couldn't coach, but in 2008, they mutinied on him and still thought they should survive it. THAT is where I got crossways with all those guys. And Tubs loyalty to them allowed that to happen. I think that's where Kevin misunderstands my stance on that loyalty. Keep the good ones around as long as they perform, but you can't be so loyal that you allow them to mutiny over a hire they disagreed with. They should have given it their all for 2008, then run Franklin off and started over, just like they did with the Nallsminger debacle in 2003. Nall was given his shot to run an offense, with some talent mind you, and it failed miserably. He of all should have been tolerant of an OC that he didn't agree with. If nothing else he just should have done the best job he could in 2008. Young though they were, that was mostly the same OL that was stellar this past year, and it wasn't because Nall couldn't coach them that they sucked in 2008, it was because he didn't coach them. Friends or not, that can't be tolerated, and that's all meant by undying loyalty, not that they should have been run off before that, except Knox of course.
BTW, Borges go the axe for a number of reasons, none of which I agreed with really. Namely being folks chirp a lot about "scheme" being to blame, and coordinators are the natural targets when things don't go like some think they should, despite the fact that Auburn was "down in 2007" with a 9-4 season. He was working with the least talent he'd had. The only players on that offense to win any awards or honors were Ziemba and Pugh, both Fr. Cox was playing injured a portion of the time. He had little to work with. And it was the beginning of the Saban era, and Tubs was trying to give recruiting a shot in the arm with a "novel" OC hire. Might possibly have been a good move, IF Tubs had let Franklin work and made the other coaches coach for him, but it was doomed to fail under the circumstances.
Winner
So, how bout that nc eh? We got us a pretty good program now.
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Nobody was really frustrated until 5-8. Fact is, we went into 2008 thinking we had a great shot at winning the SEC and an outside shot at winning it all. Kodi Burns was going to be the next Dameyune Jason Sullivan Slack. With wheels. He'd proved that in the Chick-Fil-A. Franklin's wild and crazy offense was the final piece in the puzzle. It was going to give the tried and true Tuberville defense offensive production to match. We'd had two awesome years of recruiting and stomped Bama's ass into a mudhole on the trail. Would take them years and years to catch up no matter what Saban did. We were: Unstoppable.
This was definitely true...I was on that bus. Everyone was on that bus cept for one Franklin hater, he turned out to be right, what happened to that guy? He is 1-1 on offensive coordinators.
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This was definitely true...I was on that bus. Everyone was on that bus cept for one Franklin hater, he turned out to be right, what happened to that guy? He is 1-1 on offensive coordinators.
More like 5-2. Was leery of Sullivan coming back, too. Wasn't he OC?
With Malzahn was more like.... Temper the rabid optimism. We've already crashed that bus into the hillside once and there were no survivors. Not even Franklinstein. Show something first. And even last year, it worked like gangbusters against tepid teams but went into a fetal shell against LSU, Bama, Kentucky even.
After the Franklin debacle? I wanted to see it work on a big stage against a capable defense. Running up the yardage on Wayward Wesleyan didn't mean that much if you were going to turn into Urkel against Arkansas.
Final (maybe?) note? Nobody in the world is happier over a national championship. Glad to be there and have the title. Smart enough to realize, though, that sometimes those things are arbitrary. I've watched numerous Auburn teams that were good enough, many that deserved the chance but for various reasons, some of their own doing, never got that opportunity. 1983, 1988, 1993, 2004 obviously, but there were others too. Winning the NC is as much about timing and luck as it is anything else. This was our time. But it's not the be-all, end-all of what Auburn is about. It's something I can happily use to shut up bama yapping, but just saying "championship" doesn't cement anything when you're talking about Auburn's history.
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And even last year, it worked like gangbusters against tepid teams but went into a fetal shell against LSU, Bama, Kentucky even.
Say whaaaa?
Auburn had 400 + rushing against LSU.
Auburn scored at will on Kentucky in the first half, and then went to sleep for some reason until the final drive.
And I honestly don;t think the Patriots could have scored against Bama in the first quarter. They were on fire. However, after they shot their wad and everything equaled out, Auburn was able to run their offense.
I will say this though. It was more because of Cam than anything. That guy could just hurt you in a bunch of different ways. Hell, I think I could have been calling the plays and Cam would have won the Heisman...
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Say whaaaa?
Auburn had 400 + rushing against LSU.
Auburn scored at will on Kentucky in the first half, and then went to sleep for some reason until the final drive.
And I honestly don;t think the Patriots could have scored against Bama in the first quarter. They were on fire. However, after they shot their wad and everything equaled out, Auburn was able to run their offense.
I will say this though. It was more because of Cam than anything. That guy could just hurt you in a bunch of different ways. Hell, I think I could have been calling the plays and Cam would have won the Heisman...
LAST year. LAST year.
This is still THIS year. At least until September.
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LAST year. LAST year.
This is still THIS year. At least until September.
I'm con-fused. I might need to borrow TW's delorean.
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I'm con-fused. I might need to borrow TW's delorean.
Until September this is still 2010. Last year was 2009.
This year we are national champions. Last year we were outback bowl champions.
No transporter needed.
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LAST year. LAST year.
This is still THIS year. At least until September.
I say the new season begins with spring training. That's the point on which the new team officially sets foot on a field together.
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I say the new season begins with spring training. That's the point on which the new team officially sets foot on a field together.
See and I still say we get to brag we are National Champions until January whatever of 2012 when a new one is crowned.
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See and I still say we get to brag we are National Champions until January whatever of 2012 when a new one is crowned.
I see no reason why my statement above precludes this. They are mutually associable.
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Fucking dorks...
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Fucking dorks...
E = MfuCk2you
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More like 5-2. Was leery of Sullivan coming back, too. Wasn't he OC?
Oddly enough, I'm not sure he was ever NAMED OC. It was a strange relationship. I like Coach Sullivan. He was knowledgeable and seemed to coach the guys up better than the previous guy. Not hard to do since old Crowe was a wishbone guy.
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E = MfuCk2you
You KNOW it took you 20 minutes to make that magic happen.
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You KNOW it took you 20 minutes to make that magic happen.
Whatever, I've got the magic in me.
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Whatever, I've got the magic in me.
You got the touch...
You got the power!
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You got the touch...
You got the power!
Is your hand on his penis?
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You shut your dirty whorish non-BBQ tasting mouth.
But, I was never invited
Sauce incompatibility. They were primarily honey-based, and could even handle some mustard-based, but everyone knows AWK likes meat with the white sauce. :homo: