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Pat Dye Field => Plainsman Park => Topic started by: AUJarhead on February 09, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
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Wench, when does this years Bitch and Moan thread start?
First signs of spring as some Cardinals take the field
JUPITER, Fla. -- There are still several days before pitchers and catchers officially report to Planet Jupiter and St. Louis Cardinals spring training, and yet there some were, a handful of players this morning on Field No. 1.
A gathering of Cardinals, majors and minors, and one National.
Pitchers Jake Westbrook, Adam Wainwright (a late riser, as a few of his teammates kidded), Jason Motte and Mitchell Boggs were among the Cardinals make their first appearances of spring training at the complex. Center fielder Colby Rasmus also stopped by with longtime minor-league roommate Bryan Anderson. Rasmus planned to take some BP before leaving. First-round pick Zack Cox also arrived late Tuesday and made his frist appearance at the facility on Wednesday, working out and taking some swings in the cage.
Washington Nationals outfielder Rick Ankiel, who lives nearby, came by to work out briefly with his former teammates. Ankiel also got congratulations all around for the birth of his son, Declan Ankiel, on Tuesday. He is Ankiel and his wife's first child.
You can see iPhone photos from the workouts attached to this blog, above and to the left. In the foreground of the warmup picture is lefthanded starter Jaime Garcia. The other picture is of Wainwright throwing a bullpen. He is surrounded by pitching coach Dave Duncan, bullpen coach Derek Lilliquist and Garcia.
At the YouTube channel, there is video of Wainwright's bullpen.
Also throwing off the mound today were minor-leaguers Lance Lynn and Adam Reifer. Westbrook will throw tomorrow. Garcia will throw Friday. Duncan ran through the schedule with some of the other pitchers. When official workouts begin Monday, Wainwright and P.J. Walters will be among the starters schedule to throw. Motte and Boggs will go Tuesday.
Duncan also has the starts plotted for when the games begin.
Wainwright is set to start the first game of spring, Feb. 28 against Florida. After him, the expected rotation uncoils from there: Chris Carpenter, Westboork, Garcia and Kyle Lohse, in that order. Reliever Kyle McClellan is scheduled for a start in the first week of spring games as the Cardinals prep him for relief by getting him innings early on in a "starting" role.
"These guys are just getting their conditioning, getting the time they need to get their game together," Duncan said of having a set rotation and mostly veteran candidates for the bullpen.
The informal workouts were done by lunch time.
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Not til Opening Day. Right now, every team is going to the World Series, and Uncle Drayton hasn't raised beer prices or fucked anything up. So nothing to bitch about yet... YET.
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Not til Opening Day. Right now, every team is going to the World Series, and Uncle Drayton hasn't raised beer prices or fucked anything up. So nothing to bitch about yet... YET.
Until Pujols and the Cardinals come to terms...Jarhead has a lot to bitch about...
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No shit.
Although we were discussing this last week. If the Cards low ball him, and he leaves, they'll lose a good number of fans. If they offer him a fair value, say 27mil/yr, and he bolts for 28mil/yr, then I think the Cards fans would say fuck 'em. That being said, I really expect him to resign, and I'd be shocked if it weren't in the 29-30 mil/year range.
There was speculation about the Chicago Cubs entering the mix, simply for no other reason than to make the Cards spend money, as the thought of Pujols in Cubby Blue makes me sick (much like seeing Birkman with Birds on a Bat will do to Wench this year).
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There was speculation about the Chicago Cubs entering the mix, simply for no other reason than to make the Cards spend money, as the thought of Pujols in Cubby Blue makes me sick (much like seeing Birkman with Birds on a Bat will do to Wench this year).
If Uncle Drayton wasn't such a fucking tightwad, we'd be in the mix for Pujols. I'd consider him an even trade for Benedict Berkman... that would make me do the buy-one-get-three-free season ticket offer.
Otherwise, Jarhead? Fuck you. Fuck you. And Fuck you. The wound, she is still raw.
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I know we could make this the bitch and moan thread!
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I <3 the Braves... Braves > Cards > Astros. I win.
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Damn...is it spring already?
#waittillnextyear
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Damn...is it spring already?
#waittillnextyear
Thought you had to at least wait until May before saying that.
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Damn...is it spring already?
#waittillnextyear
Yeah for real. I see the O's went out and upgraded their pitching staff.........wait, I forgot, we don't do that kind of shit., we go out and get a DH for 8 million.
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Yeah for real. I see the O's went out and upgraded their pitching staff.........wait, I forgot, we don't do that kind of shit., we go out and get a DH for 8 million.
I laughed out loud...
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I laughed out loud...
I do too now. I have given up hope that they will do anything smart again. I know they signed Justin Duchscherer, but that ain't boosting my confidence any. Especially since he missed all of 09 with an elbow injury and clinical depression.
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Thought you had to at least wait until May before saying that.
Nah...the June swoon comes earlier and earlier every year now.
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Nah...the June swoon comes earlier and earlier every year now.
I still haven't recovered from last year.
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Chinook's MLB predictions...
AL East: Boston Red Sox
AL Central: Chicago White Sox
AL West: Anaheim Angels
Wildcard: NY Yankees
Tampa will fall off the radar...as well as Minnesota.
NL East: Philadelphia Phillies
NL Central: Cincinnati Reds
NL West: SF Giants
Wildcard: LA Dodgers
Atlanta will not contend.
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Chinook's MLB predictions...
AL East: Boston Red Sox
AL Central: Chicago White Sox
AL West: Anaheim Angels
Wildcard: NY Yankees
Tampa will fall off the radar...as well as Minnesota.
NL East: Philadelphia Phillies
NL Central: Cincinnati Reds
NL West: SF Giants
Wildcard: LA Dodgers
Atlanta will not contend.
:fu:
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:fu:
:thumsup:
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Up yours, nookie. THIS.. this is the Astros' year, man!! No more Disatros! How can you argue with the talent we got coming in? Thanks to Uncle Drayton and his magical checkbook, the pine is gonna be stacked end to end with stars, man! I mean, look, we got.... uh, well, there's... uh... you know, that guy... oh, how could I forget... uh, emm... oh, uh, yeah, we still got Carlos Lee...
:facepalm:
FML.
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Chinook's MLB predictions...
AL East: Boston Red Sox
AL Central: Chicago White Sox
AL West: Anaheim Angels
Wildcard: NY Yankees
Tampa will fall off the radar...as well as Minnesota.
NL East: Philadelphia Phillies
NL Central: Cincinnati Reds
NL West: SF Giants
Wildcard: LA Dodgers
Atlanta will not contend.
Drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
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Up yours, nookie. THIS.. this is the Astros' year, man!! No more Disatros! How can you argue with the talent we got coming in? Thanks to Uncle Drayton and his magical checkbook, the pine is gonna be stacked end to end with stars, man! I mean, look, we got.... uh, well, there's... uh... you know, that guy... oh, how could I forget... uh, emm... oh, uh, yeah, we still got Carlos Lee...
:facepalm:
FML.
Yeah, but we got Wood again.
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The news had a story tonight about the Suckasstros loading up their useless shit and trucking it off to Kissimmee for some pretend spring training...
They interviewed the Astros manager and until they put up the caption below his picture, I had no fucking clue who he was... :sad:
And the only team member they talk about as a returning "star" from last year is pitcher Brad Mills...
WHO?
Shoot me now... :&
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I knew I shouldn't have done it, but I had to take a peek at the projected depth chart for the Nubs.
I'm really not sure how the NL Central pitching staffs are going to contain a lineup with Blake DeWitt (say, wasn't that the girl from Three's Company?), Fukudome, Starlin Castro and Jeff Baker (wasn't he Ponch's partner in CHiPs?)
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On a side note, VH1 was playing some SNL reruns last night and had a skit on one of the debates between Obama and McCain. Bill Murray made an appearance as one of the guest panelists and stood up to ask what both candidates planned to do about the Cubs losing in the playoffs every year.
BTDUb..Braves at least grab the Wildcard. We have an Uggla now.
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My NL Central predictions:
1/2 - Cards/Cubs (in any order)
3/4 - Brewers/Reds (in any order)
5 - Houston
6 - Pirates
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We have an Uggla now.
You should see his new Bentley. Pretty sweet! :thumsup:
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The news had a story tonight about the Suckasstros loading up their useless shit and trucking it off to Kissimmee for some pretend spring training...
They interviewed the Astros manager and until they put up the caption below his picture, I had no fucking clue who he was... :sad:
And the only team member they talk about as a returning "star" from last year is pitcher Brad Mills...
WHO?
Shoot me now... :&
Want to know how little I truly know about my own team?
Brad Mills is our MANAGER - not a pitcher...
At least now I know why I had never heard of him...
In my defense, i was taking cold meds, but who am I kidding? They suck so bad I don't even recognize our GM's name...
:facepalm:
FFML...
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FFML...
Face fuck my labia?
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Face fuck my labia?
Hmmm... beats watching the Suckasstros...
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Hmmm... beats watching the Suckasstros...
It beats a lot of things...
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My NL Central predictions:
1/2 - Cards/Cubs (in any order)
3/4 - Brewers/Reds (in any order)
5 - Houston
6 - Pirates
What's your assessment of the other divisions across the board.
Personally, I think the Cubs may be in a better situation than the Cardinals. I don't know...I just have a feeling the Cardinals will run into something the Braves did after there run in the 90's and early 2000's before rebounding the last couple of season. A changing of the guard in teh Central is due.
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What's your assessment of the other divisions across the board.
Personally, I think the Cubs may be in a better situation than the Cardinals. I don't know...I just have a feeling the Cardinals will run into something the Braves did after there run in the 90's and early 2000's before rebounding the last couple of season. A changing of the guard in teh Central is due.
You could be right. With Pujols, Cards contend for the central, without him, 4th place in the division, at best. Pujols has set a deadline of the 16th to sign a deal, he has said he will not negotiate during the season. I can't help but think this is going to be a distraction all season long.
The number of years is apparently the stickler, with Pujols wanting 10 years, and the Cards only giving 7. My thought on this is pay the damn guy. He's been a steal since you got him. Through 10 years, they've spent about 90 million on him. So for 20 years, you'd be spending 390 million. He he worth that? 19.5 mil/year? Absolutely. Do you want him going into Cooperstown with birds on the bat, dodger blue, or cubbie blue.
In the East, you have to go with Philly. When Cliff Lee is your #3? Holy shit. I'd hate to face them in a 5 game series. Second place between the Braves and the Mets. Although I think the Braves are in better shape. Although both have new staffs, but I like everything I've seen from Atlanta. Marlins then the Nets.
West, I'll pick the Champs. I'm curious how Donny Baseball will do at the helm of the Dodgers.
So In the NL:
East - Philly
Central - StL (but I wouldn't be shocked if the Cubs do it)
West - SF
WC - Atlanta
So more than likely, SF/ATL on one side, with Philly/STL on the other.
I'll go with a rematch of last years NLCS. But with Philly winning this time.
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Do you want him going into Cooperstown with birds on the bat, dodger blue, or cubbie blue.
Ooh...ooh...lemme answer that one.
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Well... Shit.
Source: Pujols turns down Cards' offer
JUPITER, Fla. • What St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa described Sunday as "a spectacular distraction potentially" came into sharper focus as a source familiar with negotiations confirmed first baseman Albert Pujols recently rejected the team's contract extension offer.
A week after the parties were described as "nowhere close" to an agreement, it appears increasingly likely Pujols will enter camp Wednesday with no deal in place. If so, talks presumably would halt because of a Feb. 15 deadline put in place by Pujols' agent, Dan Lozano. And the likelihood of the three-time National League Most Valuable Player reaching free agency after the upcoming season would increase. Cards general manager John Mozeliak described talks as in a 'sensitive" phase Saturday, then on Sunday night would not comment on the new report.
Lozano rejected the offer two weeks ago, according to reports by ESPN and Fox Sports. However, a source familiar with negotiations said as recently as 10 days ago the Cardinals had not tendered a formal offer.
What may be a matter of semantics underscores the gulf separating the team and its signature player. The Cardinals are unwilling to guarantee more than seven years, while Pujols might be seeking a deal of up to 10 years. It is unclear if the Cardinals plan to offer a modified proposal before the deadline.
The point might be moot - an NL executive said Sunday night the Cardinals "have no chance'' to sign Pujols before he reaches free agency.
The rejected offer, first reported by USA Today, has left both sides pessimistic about beating the deadline.
The Cardinals may indeed be more comfortable allowing other clubs to help sculpt Pujols' market within free agency rather than to negotiate in a vacuum. A source familiar with Pujols described the 10-year-veteran as "at peace" with the situation. Pujols has asserted consistently that he is unafraid of free agency. The stance apparently hardened after talks about an extension went nowhere last spring and were followed by Philadelphia awarding first baseman Ryan Howard a five-year, $125 million extension.
La Russa, breaking a virtual cone of silence that has surrounded the issue, acknowledged unresolved negotiations with Pujols could become a 'spectacular distraction potentially," but hastened that "we won't allow it to be." He instead called it a 'spectacular excuse" should the club underachieve this season.
"It's in the players' hands to concentrate on playing games and not make excuses," La Russa insisted. "If we play bad it's because we weren't good enough to play good or the leadership on the field wasn't good enough."
La Russa spoke Sunday morning almost as if resigned to Pujols reaching opening day unsigned beyond this season. He also noted potential involvement by the Major League Baseball Players Association in urging Pujols to push for top dollar. La Russa spoke confidently that Pujols would resist any such pressure.
"He's not going to listen to the union or his representatives more than he listens to the man upstairs and his family," La Russa said during an impromptu 45-minute morning news conference in his office. "That can be unfair, putting a player in that position. It happens on every team, every year and I have never appreciated that. There should be an acknowledgement about the best situation, and it's not always dollars."
Pujols, 31, is on the final installment of an eight-year, $111 million deal signed in February 2004, shortly before reaching an arbitration hearing and more than a year before he captured his first MVP award. He now seeks a deal that would at least challenge and possibly surpass the $27.5 million annual salary of New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, the game's highest-paid player.
"The pressure that a high-profile player receives from the union and his representatives to push for the last dollar (is) neglecting anything else about that decision - type of organization, loyalty, all that stuff," La Russa said. "I don't think that's a real healthy part of our game. The union is out there for their players to keep setting the bar higher and higher."
La Russa was met with a barrage of Pujols-related questions and said he would advise players against answering inquiries about their teammate's contract status.
La Russa repeatedly dismissed suggestions that Pujols' status as a pending free agent would represent a sideshow.
"I keep hearing this thing about distractions," La Russa noted. "You allow yourself to be distracted. We're not going to allow ourselves to get distracted, which means there are going to be a lot of non-answers. Hopefully, the players will do the same. It's not what we're here for.''
La Russa abstained from discussing specifics of the talks, saying the matter is being handeled by club Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr., Mozeliak and Lozano.
"I think Albert and the people who represent him will figure out how they want to handle that opportunity,'' he said. "Whatever they decide ... I just know that either it gets done before the practice or after it. We're not assembled here to facilitate some news conference or about anything other than our team getting ready. We have one of our key players at an important part of his career. He's got a business decision to make."
Intense media interest will accompany Pujols into camp and throughout the season. Unlike the early scrutiny that followed Mark McGwire's hiring as Cardinals hitting coach last season, interest in Pujols' status is likely to increase as the season unfolds. Even so, La Russa promised that the matter would not grow into a distraction for his team.
"It's not the same, obviously, but it's a good example about something here that could have been a distraction that ended up getting taken care of. It was definitely the way Mark handled it," La Russa noted. "But you choose what you want to think about. The fact is we're here to get ourselves ready to be as good as we can be. Anything that gets in the way of that ... our mission is to not let it happen."
Mozeliak is expected to address media members today, but it remains unclear whether he will address the team's negotiations with Pujols.
Lozano might address the matter on behalf of his client later this week.
ESPN has assigned a crew to Cardinals camp for this week. A crush of national media also is expected to descend upon the complex in numbers greater than last February's McGwire watch.
Such attention easily could extend to placing the team's season within the context of its star player's contract status. Regardless, La Russa said he is confident the team's fan base will view the stories separately.
Asked if both parties could be hurt by attention that could divide the fan base, La Russa asserted, "I don't think either side can get bruised because they've got too many points going into this thing."
Pujols already has constructed a Hall of Fame career, having achieved the minimum 10 years required for consideration. The Cardinals have reached the postseason in six of his seasons and won their first World Series since 1982 with him as their anchor.
"The biggest bruising would be if a team that looks like it should be in contention plays like chumps," he said. "I think our fans would be more unhappy if we don't have a contending 2011 season than anything about Albert. This is a team. He's the best player. But I think it's more important to our fans that the 2011 Cardinals do something that (represents) the organization."
As pitchers and catchers continued to report to camp Sunday, La Russa held his thumb and index finger about an inch apart for emphasis.
"Not this much of me is worried about us not being good enough because of Albert's negotiations."
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, Mother, mother fuck, Mother, mother fuck, fuck Mother fuck, mother fuck
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Well... Shit.
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, Mother, mother fuck, Mother, mother fuck, fuck Mother fuck, mother fuck
I scanned the article and didn;t see...but have you heard what the reported offer was he rejected?
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Well... Shit.
Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, Mother, mother fuck, Mother, mother fuck, fuck Mother fuck, mother fuck
**nm**
I can't even make fun of you for this. Not that the BKG could do anything worse to me than they already have, but this is genuinely sad...
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I scanned the article and didn;t see...but have you heard what the reported offer was he rejected?
I've not heard any monetary amount attached to the offer, the big hold up seems to be the number of years. Cards don't want to offer more than a 7 year deal, Pujols wants a 10 year deal. I'm assuming in the 30 mil/yr range. Cards don't want to pay a guy who is 40 that kind of money.
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I've not heard any monetary amount attached to the offer, the big hold up seems to be the number of years. Cards don't want to offer more than a 7 year deal, Pujols wants a 10 year deal. I'm assuming in the 30 mil/yr range. Cards don't want to pay a guy who is 40 that kind of money.
I heard the same on SNR yesterday. Asking $30 mil for 10 years. I agree on the years and have no idea why 7 years as opposed to 10 would be a sticking point for the guy. If you're 38 in baseball, you're in a select group of guys hanging on. He may still be producing but certainly not anywhere close to what he does now. And to know you've got $30 mil coming your way?
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I heard the same on SNR yesterday. Asking $30 mil for 10 years. I agree on the years and have no idea why 7 years as opposed to 10 would be a sticking point for the guy. If you're 38 in baseball, you're in a select group of guys hanging on. He may still be producing but certainly not anywhere close to what he does now. And to know you've got $30 mil coming your way?
It's the Jeff Bagwell plan... :rolleyes:
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Mother fucking cock and balls.
The Cardinals' offer would place Pujols in baseball's top 10 in salary, but not in the top five in average annual salary, the source said.
Reporting talks have broken off, and the Cards are ok with him testing the market.
Fucking idiots.
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When the player rep on your own team, Wainright (sp?), is basically admitting that the players union is putting pressure on Pujols and his agent to make the deal of the century, I can see where it's going to break down.
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I'm sorry, but anything less than 28 million is a joke. If they offered him 25, which is being reported, then we low balled him.
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I'm sorry, but anything less than 28 million is a joke. If they offered him 25, which is being reported, then we low balled him.
For ten fucking years though???
You would pay him $280M?
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I've certainly never been in this position...hope to be one day (I can dream)....but when you're talking about $25 as opposed to $28 or $30 million a year...aren't you...oh never mind.
Here's the thing. I have no problem with any player in any sport gettin' paid. I have no problem with any owner gettin' paid. The money is there or else they wouldn't be negotiating contracts of this magnitude. I understand the process and why the union would be pushing this thing. Baddest ass player in the league needs to be the highest paid player, thus raising the bar for everyone else. But, if that's the real reason, just say so. Otherwise, when you say you want to finish your career somewhere and turn your back on $25 as opposed to $28 million....you come off looking like a greedy bastard.
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ESPN is reporting the deal was worth between 18 mil and 23 mil a year. Making him paid less than Ryan Howard, which is a fucking insult.
And, WE, I would def pay him 28 mil a year. Cards have the money. And it turns out it's a 8 year deal.
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ESPN is reporting the deal was worth between 18 mil and 23 mil a year. Making him paid less than Ryan Howard, which is a fucking insult.
And, WE, I would def pay him 28 mil a year. Cards have the money. And it turns out it's a 8 year deal.
Surprising to say the least. Best player in the game. However, if he's happy playing in Saint Lewee for 8 years at that price, more power to him.
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ESPN is reporting the deal was worth between 18 mil and 23 mil a year. Making him paid less than Ryan Howard, which is a fucking insult.
And, WE, I would def pay him 28 mil a year. Cards have the money. And it turns out it's a 8 year deal.
Yeah...that is an insult. I think he will get at least $25M/year for 7 to 8 years somewhere else. At the very least.
With a 10 year deal at $28M, the problem is paying a player $28M per year in those 8th, 9th and 10th years. Just think, in the 7th year of his contract, he will be close to 39 years old...well past his prime...and he would still be guaranteed close to $81M. That is fucking ridiculous...
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By the way, something that has stuck out with me for a long time...
It was January, probably 7 to 8 years ago, and I was flipping through a Sports Illustrated. They had a calendar of January that covered a page with significant events printed on each day of the month. I was looking over it, and got to January 6th. It said, "Alex Rodriguez has made $450,000 so far this year."
That put it in perspective for me. He made four times as much as me in the first 6 days of the year, than I would hope to make for the next 359 days that year. Holy fuck dude. That is a shit pile of money...
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I agree with most players that a 10 year deal, especially when they are 39-41 is risky. But, based on past performance, the man has a legit shot to hit 755/762. While I don't expect him to be belting 40 a year when he's 40, I don't think 15-20 is out of the question (although Aaron, wasn't he hitting mid-30s towards the end of his career?). It's not like if he's chasing Aaron/Bonds, the stadium won't be packed.
Man has been the face of the team, and the face of the city, for 10 years now. I'd say 28M/yr, for 8 years. And I'd even make him part owner.
And yes, it's a shit ton of money. For what they make in one game, I'd gladly fist Jumbo's dog.
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By the way, something that has stuck out with me for a long time...
It was January, probably 7 to 8 years ago, and I was flipping through a Sports Illustrated. They had a calendar of January that covered a page with significant events printed on each day of the month. I was looking over it, and got to January 6th. It said, "Alex Rodriguez has made $450,000 so far this year."
That put it in perspective for me. He made four times as much as me in the first 6 days of the year, than I would hope to make for the next 359 days that year. Holy fuck dude. That is a shit pile of money...
Yeah, but after taxes and all....come on, man's gotta' eat.
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Hey, Maybe the O's should go after Pujols. I mean how great would that be to have him and Vlad both? Fuck pitching, who needs it?
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Hey, Maybe the O's should go after Pujols. I mean how great would that be to have him and Vlad both? Fuck pitching, who needs it?
Who are these "O's" of which you speak?
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Who are these "O's" of which you speak?
Some miserable ass AAA team.
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Some miserable ass AAA team.
Are they anything like the "M's"
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Are they anything like the "M's"
Yeah, only worse.
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With a 10 year deal at $28M, the problem is paying a player $28M per year in those 8th, 9th and 10th years. Just think, in the 7th year of his contract, he will be close to 39 years old...well past his prime...and he would still be guaranteed close to $81M. That is fucking ridiculous...
Fuck you.
Signed,
Jeff Bagwell
It totally sucks to have to pry a legend's fingers off the bench when he gets old and washed up at the end of a multiyear deal because his ginormous salary is sucking the life out of your team and you cannot afford to rebuild...