Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
The Library => The SGA => Topic started by: CCTAU on February 04, 2014, 01:22:10 PM
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Or do other countries really teach their residents to sing America The Beautiful in their language?
I think this about sums it up:
http://www.caintv.com/the-problem-with-the-coke-ad-y (http://www.caintv.com/the-problem-with-the-coke-ad-y)
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I thought it was weird.
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I thought the Bob Dylan commercial was funnier when he was talking about "letting the Asians put our phones together".
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My grandfather on my mother's side came to America in 1918 only knowing how to speak Italian.
My great grandfather on my father's side came to America with a thick Irish accent.
One of my good friends speaks Spanish as his native language, and he has a thick accent when he speaks English.
Our history is built on a plethora of cultures coming together to create what our country is today. Despite who was in political and economic control for the first few hundred years of our country's existence, it by a large part was a large mix of different languages, cultures, and beliefs.
The ad was fine and didn't step on anyone's toes except the old conservative white man who thinks English is the official and only language of the planet Earth.
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My grandfather on my mother's side came to America in 1918 only knowing how to speak Italian.
My great grandfather on my father's side came to America with a thick Irish accent.
One of my good friends speaks Spanish as his native language, and he has a thick accent when he speaks English.
Our history is built on a plethora of cultures coming together to create what our country is today. Despite who was in political and economic control for the first few hundred years of our country's existence, it by a large part was a large mix of different languages, cultures, and beliefs.
The ad was fine and didn't step on anyone's toes except the old conservative white man who thinks English is the official and only language of the planet Earth.
It's not?
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My grandfather on my mother's side came to America in 1918 only knowing how to speak Italian.
My great grandfather on my father's side came to America with a thick Irish accent.
One of my good friends speaks Spanish as his native language, and he has a thick accent when he speaks English.
Our history is built on a plethora of cultures coming together to create what our country is today. Despite who was in political and economic control for the first few hundred years of our country's existence, it by a large part was a large mix of different languages, cultures, and beliefs.
The ad was fine and didn't step on anyone's toes except the old conservative white man who thinks English is the official and only language of the planet Earth.
Assimilate. What a concept.
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The ad was fine and didn't step on anyone's toes except the old conservative white man who thinks English is the official and only language of the planet Earth.
It's the official language of the United States of America, by damn.
I don't care to hear a bunch of gibberish.
Coke can suck it. I like the drink but they've gone nuts the last ten years or so. The ad campaigns with the freaky things swirling around and making cokes and this kind of silly nonsense.
If people in other countries want to sing America in farsi or Klingon or hobbit, I could care less. But here? English, bitch.
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My grandfather on my mother's side came to America in 1918 only knowing how to speak Italian.
My great grandfather on my father's side came to America with a thick Irish accent.
One of my good friends speaks Spanish as his native language, and he has a thick accent when he speaks English.
Our history is built on a plethora of cultures coming together to create what our country is today. Despite who was in political and economic control for the first few hundred years of our country's existence, it by a large part was a large mix of different languages, cultures, and beliefs.
The ad was fine and didn't step on anyone's toes except the old conservative white man who thinks English is the official and only language of the planet Earth.
So your Italian grandfather ONLY spoke Italian here in the new world?
This has nothing to do with PLANET EARTH. We are talking AMERICA the beautiful. Did your Italian grandaddy learn to sing that in Italian? Wa he taught that in Italy/ hell, was your Irish grandaddy taught it in Ireland.
Did your Spanish speaking friend learn to sing it in Spanish.
You totally missed the point. Read the comments. A lot of non-white old man conservatives were offended also.
Funny how the article was written by a woman. Read shit before you get sand in your vagina.
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So your Italian grandfather ONLY spoke Italian here in the new world?
This has nothing to do with PLANET EARTH. We are talking AMERICA the beautiful. Did your Italian grandaddy learn to sing that in Italian? Wa he taught that in Italy/ hell, was your Irish grandaddy taught it in Ireland.
Did your Spanish speaking friend learn to sing it in Spanish.
You totally missed the point. Read the comments. A lot of non-white old man conservatives were offended also.
Funny how the article was written by a woman. Read shit before you get sand in your vagina.
It's ironic too because at his age he is more akin to what we used to call the "Pepsi generation".
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Assimilate. What a concept.
The ad didn't say not to assimilate. It celebrated cultural ancestry, history, and practice.
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So your Italian grandfather ONLY spoke Italian here in the new world?
No. And the Coke ad didn't say to only speak those languages. It just celebrated that they are too part of this country.
This has nothing to do with PLANET EARTH. We are talking AMERICA the beautiful. Did your Italian grandaddy learn to sing that in Italian? Wa he taught that in Italy/ hell, was your Irish grandaddy taught it in Ireland.
Did your Spanish speaking friend learn to sing it in Spanish.
If you think the ad was saying that everyone should sing it in a foreign language, then you're being obtuse. Which I think is evident considering that you think I was serious with the planet Earth comment.
You totally missed the point. Read the comments. A lot of non-white old man conservatives were offended also.
Funny how the article was written by a woman. Read shit before you get sand in your vagina.
Why is that funny? What does being a woman have to do with it? And I did read it. It was a stupid article with an invalid opinion.
I did find this part funny:
I did not watch the “big game†because I just don’t care which body part the name-of-the-week celebrity decides to shake in between half-second clips of football.
While criticizing an ad for celebrity the diversity of America, she condescends the Super Bowl, which is one of the largest events of the year that is considered distinctly American.
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No. And the Coke ad didn't say to only speak those languages. It just celebrated that they are too part of this country.
If you think the ad was saying that everyone should sing it in a foreign language, then you're being obtuse. Which I think is evident considering that you think I was serious with the planet Earth comment.
Why is that funny? What does being a woman have to do with it? And I did read it. It was a stupid article with an invalid opinion.
I did find this part funny:
While criticizing an ad for celebrity the diversity of America, she condescends the Super Bowl, which is one of the largest events of the year that is considered distinctly American.
I hope coke does another commercial for China where Americans and Europeans are singing the Chinese national anthem. You know, to celebrate diversity and all.
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I hope coke does another commercial for China where Americans and Europeans are singing the Chinese national anthem. You know, to celebrate diversity and all.
China doesn't celebrate diversity.
I could see them making one for Europe. Maybe an EU thing. But those people over there are staunchly conservative when it comes to nationality. Ever look into becoming a citizen in Sweden? Pretty much impossible.
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Funny how the article was written by a woman. Read shit before you get sand in your vagina.
Right. He's the one with sand in his vagina.
It's sand in your vagina these days to not be offended by some innocuous reference to cultural diversity in America in a multinational corporation's ad campaign.
Why do you hate multinational corporations, hippie?
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It's the official language of the United States of America, by damn.
I don't care to hear a bunch of gibberish.
Coke can suck it. I like the drink but they've gone nuts the last ten years or so. The ad campaigns with the freaky things swirling around and making cokes and this kind of silly nonsense.
If people in other countries want to sing America in farsi or Klingon or hobbit, I could care less. But here? English, bitch.
I thought you did coke.
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I don't ever want to hear another stinking word about "bed-wetting libs just waiting for an opportunity to be offended."
A fucking Coke commercial? Jesus, it's like I'm sitting here playing cards with my brother's kids or somethin.
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Seriously, here's the "offensive" commercial.
http://youtu.be/443Vy3I0gJs (http://youtu.be/443Vy3I0gJs)
What exactly pisses you off about that? That other languages are spoken in this country, ever? My in-laws speak primarily Spanish around their own house. What are you guys advocating? Locking them up for that? It just makes them bad people in general?
Or are you pissed that there are other cultures besides Anglish speakin' white folk (who were represented in the commercial as well) that are allowed to live in the nation proudly known as The Melting Pot?
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I'm not seeing the offensive part of this commercial.
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSirU4_6-1dv_oZG2nxB_NHQA10dwTO1uArZz5XLIWb5UAEtZZKtw)
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I'm not seeing the offensive part of this commercial.
Probably because you're not an easily goaded redneck idiot.
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Seriously, here's the "offensive" commercial.
What exactly pisses you off about that? That other languages are spoken in this country, ever? My in-laws speak primarily Spanish around their own house. What are you guys advocating? Locking them up for that? It just makes them bad people in general?
Or are you pissed that there are other cultures besides Anglish speakin' white folk (who were represented in the commercial as well) that are allowed to live in the nation proudly known as The Melting Pot?
Don't care what they do in their own home. But out in public, dealing with the public? I want to hear English.
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I don't ever want to hear another stinking word about "bed-wetting libs just waiting for an opportunity to be offended."
A fucking Coke commercial? Jesus, it's like I'm sitting here playing cards with my brother's kids or somethin.
Why Johnny Tyler! You madcap!
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Or do other countries really teach their residents to sing America The Beautiful in their language?
I think this about sums it up:
http://www.caintv.com/the-problem-with-the-coke-ad-y (http://www.caintv.com/the-problem-with-the-coke-ad-y)
I take offense to the fact that you spelled "offense" with a C. This is fucking America.
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I take offense to the fact that you spelled "offense" with a C. This is fucking America.
SPEAK AMERICAN MOTHERFUCKER!
Oh, and by the way...
It's the official language of the United States of America, by damn.
You know this is patently false, don't you?
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SPEAK AMERICAN MOTHERfudgeER!
Oh, and by the way...You know this is patently false, don't you?
What? Are you a freaking patent lawyer? This goobly gook isn't English. That's all we need to know.
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Don't care what they do in their own home. But out in public, dealing with the public? I want to hear English.
America the Beautiful was written in ENGLISH to be sung in ENGLISH for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
To insinuate that people sing THAT song in other languages is ASININE.
To all of you with relatives that speak different languages in their home, ask them if they sing AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL in their old country's language.
And I mentioned the writer being a woman because it was insinuated by by someone that ONLY white conservative males were offended.
Take a video of your relatives singing this song in their old language and I'll recant.
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I take offense to the fact that you spelled "offense" with a C. This is fucking America.
Sorry. I work with Brits daily. They influence me too much at times.
And they don't sing America the Beautiful in any language.
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I can't wait until the Super Bowl is played in London and they sing the Star Spangled Banner in whatever devil-inspired language they speak over there.
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SPEAK AMERICAN MOTHERFUCKER!
Oh, and by the way...You know this is patently false, don't you?
By law, yes. Culturally, no.
America has always been predominately an English speaking country.
I have no issue with people from different backgrounds singing this song. After all, we are a melting pot. People singing it in the predominate language from where they came from rather than the predominate language of where they currently are is not what I desire to see, especially with America the Beautiful. And no that doesn't make one a racist.
Part of assimilating into any country or society that allows it, is learning the common language of that place as soon as you can. And merging into the existing culture while perhaps adding a bit of your own to it.
I'm not offended by it. I just didn't care for how it was done. It would have been great to have some little kids - white, Latino, black, Asian and any others all together singing it choir style - in English. That would have been a true representation of America, how people assimilate into it and the melting pot that it is.
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I can't wait until the Super Bowl is played in London and they sing the Star Spangled Banner in whatever devil-inspired language they speak over there.
Have you ever been there?
I bet your sweet ass they do not sing along...IN ANY LANGUAGE!
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I can't wait until the Super Bowl is played in London and they sing the Star Spangled Banner in whatever devil-inspired language they speak over there.
Surely they have somebody who speaks American over there, so maybe this won't be a problem.
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America the Beautiful was written in ENGLISH to be sung in ENGLISH for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!
To insinuate that people sing THAT song in other languages is ASININE.
To all of you with relatives that speak different languages in their home, ask them if they sing AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL in their old country's language.
And I mentioned the writer being a woman because it was insinuated by by someone that ONLY white conservative males were offended.
Take a video of your relatives singing this song in their old language and I'll recant.
Larry Elder calls it white on white resentment.
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By law, yes. Culturally, no.
America has always been predominately an English speaking country.
I have no issue with people from different backgrounds singing this song. After all, we are a melting pot. People singing it in the predominate language from where they came from rather than the predominate language of where they currently are is not what I desire to see, especially with America the Beautiful. And no that doesn't make one a racist.
Part of assimilating into any country or society that allows it, is learning the common language of that place as soon as you can. And merging into the existing culture while perhaps adding a bit of your own to it.
I'm not offended by it. I just didn't care for how it was done. It would have been great to have some little kids - white, Latino, black, Asian and any others all together singing it choir style - in English. That would have been a true representation of America, how people assimilate into it and the melting pot that it is.
Oh no no! You racist old conservative white man. YOu have just offended my Swahili relatives. They sing this songs in their native tongue of clicks and clacks every day before they go gnu hunting. Why do you hate them so?
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Surely they have somebody who speaks American over there, so maybe this won't be a problem.
I'm sure the English would be all for some Chinese people singing God Save the Queen in mandarin during the English Premier League championship.
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By law, yes. Culturally, no.
America has always been predominately an English speaking country.
I have no issue with people from different backgrounds singing this song. After all, we are a melting pot. People singing it in the predominate language from where they came from rather than the predominate language of where they currently are is not what I desire to see, especially with America the Beautiful. And no that doesn't make one a racist.
Part of assimilating into any country or society that allows it, is learning the common language of that place as soon as you can. And merging into the existing culture while perhaps adding a bit of your own to it.
I'm not offended by it. I just didn't care for how it was done. It would have been great to have some little kids - white, Latino, black, Asian and any others all together singing it choir style - in English. That would have been a true representation of America, how people assimilate into it and the melting pot that it is.
I guess I just didn't see where Coke was pushing that we shouldn't expect people to learn how to communicate in English.
It's not like there's a real resentment towards learning it. Hell, on the 15 minute drive to my son's daycare, I pass by four places that advertise English classes for Spanish-speakers.
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I'm sure the English would be all for some Chinese people singing God Save the Queen in mandarin during the English Premier League championship.
Or in Arabic, or Hindi!
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Ever notice how when English peoples (From across the pond) sing a song, you can't tell what kind of accent they have? Take One Direction, for example. I absolutely wore out their first CD before someone told me they ain't from around here.
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Ever notice how when English peoples (From across the pond) sing a song, you can't tell what kind of accent they have? Take One Direction, for example. I absolutely wore out their first CD before someone told me they ain't from around here.
some, yeah. Then others are obvious. Like Phil Collins or Rick Astley.
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I guess I just didn't see where Coke was pushing that we shouldn't expect people to learn how to communicate in English.
It's not like there's a real resentment towards learning it. Hell, on the 15 minute drive to my son's daycare, I pass by four places that advertise English classes for Spanish-speakers.
Did you read the article. They weren't pushing that. It was just like the author said, it was a removal of identity.
These things happen subtly and the next thing you know, we as a nation are questioning who we are. We KNOW who we are and where we come from. many sacrifices were made for the American way of life. that is what was a bit offensive. They tried to redefine who we are as a country.
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Ever notice how when English peoples (From across the pond) sing a song, you can't tell what kind of accent they have? Take One Direction, for example. I absolutely wore out their first CD before someone told me they ain't from around here.
Hmmm. Story of my life...
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Did you read the article. They weren't pushing that. It was just like the author said, it was a removal of identity.
These things happen subtly and the next thing you know, we as a nation are questioning who we are. We KNOW who we are and where we come from. many sacrifices were made for the American way of life. that is what was a bit offensive. They tried to redefine who we are as a country.
Bullshit. There's no less patriotism and nationalism in this country than there was ten, twenty, thirty, or forty years ago.
Maybe in the heart and aftermath of WWII, it was greater, but of course it was. We were unified in fighting a horrific war against a horrific enemy on two horrific fronts.
No one is trying to take away your America. No one is taking your guns. No one is making you or your family speak Spanish.
When you hear America singing, you hear a celebration of diversity of hard working, real, blue collar people who go their own ways after contributing to the prosperity of this great nation. Haven't you ever read Walt Whitman?
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Part of assimilating into any country or society that allows it, is learning the common language of that place as soon as you can. And merging into the existing culture while perhaps adding a bit of your own to it.
I'm not offended by it. I just didn't care for how it was done. It would have been great to have some little kids - white, Latino, black, Asian and any others all together singing it choir style - in English. That would have been a true representation of America, how people assimilate into it and the melting pot that it is.
Bing meet OH.
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Bullshit. There's no less patriotism and nationalism in this country than there was ten, twenty, thirty, or forty years ago.
Maybe in the heart and aftermath of WWII, it was greater, but of course it was. We were unified in fighting a horrific war against a horrific enemy on two horrific fronts.
No one is trying to take away your America. No one is taking your guns. No one is making you or your family speak Spanish.
When you hear America singing, you hear a celebration of diversity of hard working, real, blue collar people who go their own ways after contributing to the prosperity of this great nation. Haven't you ever read Walt Whitman?
Bullshit. The erosion of a national identity is one of the first steps toward socialism/communism. It has been happening since the hippies decided to enter into education back in the sixties. The weather underground was and has been a driving force in this plot.
The singing of America The Beautiful on that commercial in different languages was to help people like you think its "all good. "
Did you go and kiss a muslim after the axe commercial too!
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Bullshit. The erosion of a national identity is one of the first steps toward socialism/communism. It has been happening since the hippies decided to enter into education back in the sixties. The weather underground was and has been a driving force in this plot.
The singing of America The Beautiful on that commercial in different languages was to help people like you think its "all good. "
Did you go and kiss a muslim after the axe commercial too!
:facepalm:
Jesus Christ, dude.
I give up. Go start your race war as Helter Skelter has commanded of you.
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They just announced Ricky Martin is singing the National Anthem at the 2015 Super Bowl. She Bangs, bitch
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No one is trying to take away your America. No one is taking your guns. No one is making you or your family speak Spanish.
Really? I've gone into big box stores and ended up with a clerk that didn't speak English. She knew a few phrases:
"Eees you address correck?"
"Is you want warranty, press yeas or no"
But had no idea whatsoever what to do when I asked her a simple question in English.
Call the Chinese place to get food delivered and holy mother of Confucious, that's a disaster.
The last guy was trying to spell my street name and I got
"Thassa "G" likea Jeeemy?"
The bastards that came to put my wood fence up at the new house didn't know a single word.
NO, dammit, don't dig there you're going to cut my sprinkler line. I told your boss that when he was out here.
*Mexican nods head* Yes, yes.
Starts hammering with the post hole digger again.
STOP DIGGING, dammit, before you cut my sprinkler lines. Can you call your boss?
*Mexican nods head and smiles * Yes, yes, I dig?
Starts hammering with the posthole digger again.
STOP DIGGING!! as I call his boss.
Phone rings, and as I'm trying to tell him to tell the Mexican to stop digging... he cuts my sprinkler line.
In court. There's a line of Asians and Mexicans. None of them speak a word of English and everything has to be interpreted.
Every sign in Lowes is in two languages now. I don't want to see that.
If you want to live here, SPEAK ENGLISH. Every community college in the country offers ESL classes. Take one.
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(http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/strawmanargument.jpg)
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The erosion of a national identity is one of the first steps toward socialism/communism.
See, but...
Uh, well...
Ah...fuck it. There's no point.
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Bullshit. The erosion of a national identity is one of the first steps toward socialism/communism.
Lib'rul commie socialist bitch...
(http://www.posterenvy.com/catalog/ss017thumb%20-%20Give%20me%20your%20tired.jpg)
I bet she's French.
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You young guys are part of that group that was educated by the hippies. You have been conditioned that EVERYTHING is about race.
In case you dumbasses haven't noticed, English can be spoken by any color individual.
Socialism knows no color either. So your race war bullshit sounds like a whiny assed liberal educated kid. Look around you, this is not about race. It is about America and the direction she is headed.
it is about stripping down the fabric of our history and replacing it with liberal hippy ideas.
And you are following the game plan to a tee.
I have said nothing on here about hating another person because of their race. But that's OK, when you have nothing else, RACIST! RACIST!
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Bullshit. There's no less patriotism and nationalism in this country than there was ten, twenty, thirty, or forty years ago.
Maybe in the heart and aftermath of WWII, it was greater, but of course it was. We were unified in fighting a horrific war against a horrific enemy on two horrific fronts.
No one is trying to take away your America. No one is taking your guns. No one is making you or your family speak Spanish.
When you hear America singing, you hear a celebration of diversity of hard working, real, blue collar people who go their own ways after contributing to the prosperity of this great nation. Haven't you ever read Walt Whitman?
You have bought the bullshit then... Hook line sinker.
People used to assimilate into America. Now the norm is for America to conform to everyone else. America conforming to other languages as the norm is part of that. People come here now and don't want to assimilate. They want to keep their culture and have America accept it. This is a fact.
The examples that Kaos cited are very real. Commercials like Coke's just perpetuate that mentality. It's ok to come hear and not speak English. America will conform to you. Many come here to get that piece of the prosperity pie that has been built for 200 years because their country couldn't get the job done but have no desire to be a part of America. Citizenship or culture. Speaking English as the norm IS part of our culture historically whether you guys like it or not.
And trivializing someone's concern over it or calling them David Duke or the Klan doesn't help.
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For Engrish, press one. Para español, presione dos
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Lib'rul commie socialist bitch...
(http://www.posterenvy.com/catalog/ss017thumb%20-%20Give%20me%20your%20tired.jpg)
I bet she's French.
This was true. Times change. Anyone who doesn't eat grits needs to be deported.
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Lib'rul commie socialist bitch...
(http://www.posterenvy.com/catalog/ss017thumb%20-%20Give%20me%20your%20tired.jpg)
I bet she's French.
Style over substance I guess. John Stewart must he proud. Keep labeling people as kkk. That will surely lead to a constructive debate instead of the dogmatic diatribe I currently see.
The irony to me is that you guys are more offended by CCT's opinion of this commercial than he is of the commercial itself. More irony in the fact that you've alleged someone of building a straw man when you guys have built the biggest one in this thread.
How's about there is just an "agree to disagree" going on here?
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People used to assimilate into America. Now the norm is for America to conform to everyone else. America conforming to other languages as the norm is part of that. People come here now and don't want to assimilate. They want to keep their culture and have America accept it. This is a fact.
German immigration peaked around 1870. Yet up until 1917 (when America entered the World War), there were still over 700 German-language newspapers. There was no immediate conforming or immediate assimilation upon arriving here, especially not linguistically.
Assimilation in the form of learning the language has always been difficult to achieve. The only difference now is that there are larger numbers of immigrants. Nonetheless, they still assimilate linguistically just like their ancestors: the first generation has issues learning English and rarely uses it, the second generation is usually bilingual, and the third generation can't even speak to their grandparents.
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The next thing you know these people will want to vote.
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German immigration peaked around 1870. Yet up until 1917 (when America entered the World War), there were still over 700 German-language newspapers. There was no immediate conforming or immediate assimilation upon arriving here, especially not linguistically.
Assimilation in the form of learning the language has always been difficult to achieve. The only difference now is that there are larger numbers of immigrants. Nonetheless, they still assimilate linguistically just like their ancestors: the first generation has issues learning English and rarely uses it, the second generation is usually bilingual, and the third generation can't even speak to their grandparents.
Then they need to be educated.
I used to contract work out to a couple of Russian guys. Russian jewish guys from Chernobyl. Their "boss" was from Nigeria. They took pride in learning and being able to communicate in English once they moved to the US. One of them -- probably the most brilliant guy I've ever known -- took a job driving a taxi for six months to be around, hear and learn to communicate with people who speak English.
They still spoke their native language, but they insisted that their families speak English.
Those two guys are 100% patriots. They believe in AMERICA, not some ancient culture from a forgotten land that failed. They didn't insist on being subject only to jewish law or demand that I learn Russian to communicate with them. They worked hard to integrate into the fabric of this country.
Those guys would be just as disgusted as some of us are that people don't see a problem here.
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Then they need to be educated.
That's a policy argument that, for many reasons, I don't want to get involved with. The point of my post was that linguistic assimilation was not immediate or even guaranteed years ago, just as it isn't today. There's often sensationalization about how the good ole days were really good when, in fact, they weren't always a lot different than they are now. And this is one of those instances in which linguistic assimilation is being sensationalized as if it were more frequent then than it is now, when in actuality it wasn't.
As mentioned, the only real difference is that there are more immigrants, and so the number of people who don't speak English well or at all has increased. Nonetheless, their linguistic assimilation still occurs over generations, as it always has. Sure, you have anecdotal cases in which people learn English and take pride in doing so, but most immigrants are not like that, then or now.
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You have bought the bullshit then... Hook line sinker.
People used to assimilate into America. Now the norm is for America to conform to everyone else. America conforming to other languages as the norm is part of that. People come here now and don't want to assimilate. They want to keep their culture and have America accept it. This is a fact.
The examples that Kaos cited are very real. Commercials like Coke's just perpetuate that mentality. It's ok to come hear and not speak English. America will conform to you. Many come here to get that piece of the prosperity pie that has been built for 200 years because their country couldn't get the job done but have no desire to be a part of America. Citizenship or culture. Speaking English as the norm IS part of our culture historically whether you guys like it or not.
And trivializing someone's concern over it or calling them David Duke or the Klan doesn't help.
Assimilate into what?
I feel like many here are speaking more than just language acquisition. What culture are immigrants and natives both supposed to conform to? If I painted a portrait of a proper American citizen, what do they look like and how does the description read?
Are there some that refuse to learn English and expect Americans to conform to their language? Sure. A rare few unless you're in fucking Chinatown.
Here in Alabama, I guarantee you can live your life and a much, much better life than the majority of the immigrants here without ever having to worry about your cashier speaking English or not.
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Then they need to be educated.
I used to contract work out to a couple of Russian guys. Russian jewish guys from Chernobyl. Their "boss" was from Nigeria. They took pride in learning and being able to communicate in English once they moved to the US. One of them -- probably the most brilliant guy I've ever known -- took a job driving a taxi for six months to be around, hear and learn to communicate with people who speak English.
They still spoke their native language, but they insisted that their families speak English.
Those two guys are 100% patriots. They believe in AMERICA, not some ancient culture from a forgotten land that failed. They didn't insist on being subject only to jewish law or demand that I learn Russian to communicate with them. They worked hard to integrate into the fabric of this country.
Those guys would be just as disgusted as some of us are that people don't see a problem here.
And what exactly about a heartwarming commercial where the clear and obvious message was unity through diversity led you to think that any of that was being discouraged?
Sure, you have anecdotal cases in which people learn English and take pride in doing so, but most immigrants are not like that, then or now.
I disagree with this.
If anything, the reverse is true.
And this commercial is not in any way promoting the latter, unless you've divined that from nonexistant subtext because you're a crazy person.
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Sure, you have anecdotal cases in which people learn English and take pride in doing so, but most immigrants are not like that, then or now.
Maybe it is just anecdotal, but working with hundreds of hispanic students over the course of six years, I saw a vast amount of immigrants learning English and taking pride in doing so.
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I disagree with this.
If anything, the reverse is true.
Studies say otherwise.
http://mumford.albany.edu/children/reports/language_assimilation/language_assimilation_brief.pdf (http://mumford.albany.edu/children/reports/language_assimilation/language_assimilation_brief.pdf)
Overall, most immigrants from non-English speaking countries never learn to speak English well. Their descendants do, but not them.
I'm not pointing this out in an attempt to degrade or blame immigrants, nor am I saying that every immigrant fits this mold. All I'm saying is that, for the most part, non-English speaking immigrants who come here typically do not learn to speak English well. Those immigrants who are more highly educated and more financially well-off (such as you, Kaos, and I would be more likely to know) will obviously have a higher probability of knowing or learning English, but as stated, those anecdotal cases don't represent the overall statistics.
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Studies say otherwise.
http://mumford.albany.edu/children/reports/language_assimilation/language_assimilation_brief.pdf (http://mumford.albany.edu/children/reports/language_assimilation/language_assimilation_brief.pdf)
Overall, most immigrants from non-English speaking countries never learn to speak English well. Their descendants do, but not them.
I'm not pointing this out in an attempt to degrade or blame immigrants, nor am I saying that every immigrant fits this mold. All I'm saying is that, for the most part, non-English speaking immigrants who come here typically do not learn to speak English well. Those immigrants who are more highly educated and more financially well-off (such as you, Kaos, and I would be more likely to know) will obviously have a higher probability of knowing or learning English, but as stated, those anecdotal cases don't represent the overall statistics.
...speak English well.
I don't think the expectation is for them to become professorial in their speech. The majority of Americans don't actually speak English well.
As long as they can communicate basic needs and receive basic commands, I consider that a success.
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Maybe it is just anecdotal, but working with hundreds of hispanic students over the course of six years, I saw a vast amount of immigrants learning English and taking pride in doing so.
Students, as in children? If they're forced to be in an educational institution where they learn English, then yes, of course they're going to learn English. Although they may not have been born in America, they would be more akin to second generation immigrants that are more often than not bilingual according to studies.
If you're referring to adults that you're teaching, then it's still no different. I'm not saying that absolutely no immigrants take the time to learn English. I'm saying that, by and large, first generation immigrants do not ever learn English well, and some never learn it at all. Again, the studies show this. Linguistic assimilation usually occurs over generations.
...speak English well.
I don't think the expectation is for them to become professorial in their speech. The majority of Americans don't actually speak English well.
As long as they can communicate basic needs and receive basic commands, I consider that a success.
Again, my entire point was that immigrants back then assimilated linguistically just as they do now: over generations. We can argue about how well immigrants learn the language over time, but it's clear that a child of a first generation immigrant is going to grow up with English and generally know the language way better than their parent.
The claim by GH was that people used to assimilate into America, and now they don't. Linguistically, this isn't the case. Immigrants back then continued to use their native language and did not take the time to perfect their English, just as they do now. The only time that we see real improvement with immigrants' English speaking skills is as their descendants are born and learn English. The first generation immigrants still speak broken English, and sometimes don't know anything other than the basics like you mentioned. Linguistic assimilation still by and large occurs over generations; the "good ole days" weren't a time when immigrants bowed down to American superiority and studied their asses off just to "assimilate."
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And in case it's not clear, I'm using the term "first generation immigrant" to refer to an adult who moves to America. The study that I linked to actually uses that term to refer to the child (6-15) of an immigrant who was not born in America, but is now here with its parent(s). This explains why the "first generation immigrants" in the study have high percentages (56% - 87.2%, depending on country of origin) of people who are classified as speaking English well, because they are children who are being forced to learn the language.
However, the study acknowledges that "[r]elatively few people fluently speak a language learned only in school or during adulthood," and the overall trend shows that the level of fluency gets better and bilingualism disappears with each generation.
Again, my only overall point was that linguistic assimilation has always primarily occurred over generations. The majority of immigrants weren't hunched over English books in libraries in the 1920s trying their hardest to work on verb conjugation to please their American overlords, and the 2000s isn't an era of communism in which immigrants refuse to learn English and try to hijack our freedom. The patterns and methods of linguistic assimilation of immigrants have actually been pretty similar for the past 100+ years.
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And in case it's not clear, I'm using the term "first generation immigrant" to refer to an adult who moves to America. The study that I linked to actually uses that term to refer to the child (6-15) of an immigrant who was not born in America, but is now here with its parent(s). This explains why the "first generation immigrants" in the study have high percentages (56% - 87.2%, depending on country of origin) of people who are classified as speaking English well, because they are children who are being forced to learn the language.
However, the study acknowledges that "[r]elatively few people fluently speak a language learned only in school or during adulthood," and the overall trend shows that the level of fluency gets better and bilingualism disappears with each generation.
Again, my only overall point was that linguistic assimilation has always primarily occurred over generations. The majority of immigrants weren't hunched over English books in libraries in the 1920s trying their hardest to work on verb conjugation to please their American overlords, and the 2000s isn't an era of communism in which immigrants refuse to learn English and try to hijack our freedom. The patterns and methods of linguistic assimilation of immigrants have actually been pretty similar for the past 100+ years.
Purely anecdotal, but my aforementioned in-laws are more like what you describe as 2nd generation. They are bilingual. My father in-law has a pretty heavy accent, but he in no way speaks broken English. My wife can barely speak Spanish. She feels like she "sounds stupid" when she tries. She's technically 1st generation American. Most likely, Spanish will play no role at all in our kids' lives.
Granted, her parents weren't uneducated when they came here as you qualified, and English is a required part of a Puerto Rican education.
I'm also thinking of the dozens of friends of theirs I know who also emigrated from various Spanish-speaking countries (Puerto Rico, Cuba, Argentina that I know of). Again, literally zero of them have any difficulty whatsoever speaking English. And their kids all have absolutely zero accent when speaking English, and most can't speak Spanish at all, or at least any better than someone who's taken a high school Spanish class.
Anecdotal, sure, but I find it hard to believe that "most" immigrants in this country bull-headedly refuse to learn English.
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Purely anecdotal, but my aforementioned in-laws are more like what you describe as 2nd generation. They are bilingual. My father in-law has a pretty heavy accent, but he in no way speaks broken English. My wife can barely speak Spanish. She feels like she "sounds stupid" when she tries. She's technically 1st generation American. Most likely, Spanish will play no role at all in our kids' lives.
Granted, her parents weren't uneducated when they came here as you qualified, and English is a required part of a Puerto Rican education.
I'm also thinking of the dozens of friends of theirs I know who also emigrated from various Spanish-speaking countries (Puerto Rico, Cuba, Argentina that I know of). Again, literally zero of them have any difficulty whatsoever speaking English. And their kids all have absolutely zero accent when speaking English, and most can't speak Spanish at all, or at least any better than someone who's taken a high school Spanish class.
Anecdotal, sure, but I find it hard to believe that "most" immigrants in this country bull-headedly refuse to learn English.
And do any of your relatives sing America the beautiful in Spanish?
Probably not. As do not any other immigrants using a language other than English. And that is the point!
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Anecdotal, sure, but I find it hard to believe that "most" immigrants in this country bull-headedly refuse to learn English.
I don't think it's necessarily an issue of bull-headedly refusing. Second languages become more difficult to pick up the older you get. This is why adult immigrants who move to America often create their own communities, newspapers, etc. They will pick up English as they continue to live here, but ultimately they continue to use their native language in as many instances as they can because it's easier for them. They learn what they have to, but most won't become fully assimilated as far as language goes. Their descendants, however, will eventually become bilingual and even monolingual with each generation.
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Aight bitches...its signing day so the Commies vs Klansmen battle is gonna have to go on hiatus for a day mmmmk? :thumsup:
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Aight bitches...its signing day so the Commies vs Klansmen battle is gonna have to go on hiatus for a day mmmmk? :thumsup:
No.