Tigers X - Number one Source to Talk Auburn Tigers Sports
Pat Dye Field => War Damn Eagle => Topic started by: Buzz Killington on August 08, 2012, 02:32:45 PM
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This does not please the Bird.
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20120808/SPORTS0402/308080023/Auburn-football-Stuck-middle-Linebackers-working-out-kinks (http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20120808/SPORTS0402/308080023/Auburn-football-Stuck-middle-Linebackers-working-out-kinks)
Auburn football - Stuck in the middle: Linebackers working out kinks
12:04 AM, Aug. 8, 2012
AUBURN — As Auburn prepares for its first scrimmage today, the Tigers seem to have a tentative pecking order at almost every position, at the very least an idea of who has the upper hand.
Except at linebacker.
Originally thought to be relatively settled with Daren Bates on the weak side, Jake Holland in the middle and redshirt freshman Kris Frost likely competing with senior Jonathan Evans on the strong side, linebacker has become a free-for-all.
“Wide open,†defensive coordinator Brian VanGorder said. “Wide open right now. We’ve got to gain a consistency, just with our knowledge overall of the system, from the linebacker position.â€
VanGorder has repeatedly cautioned that linebackers face the toughest job in his defense due to the amount of calls and adjustments they have to make before the snap.
But the linebacking corps has already been shuffled.
In recent practices, Bates, Auburn’s leading returning tackler, has been moved over to the strong side, sophomore Justin Garrett has run with the No. 1 unit on the weak side in front of Evans, and Holland’s status as the starting middle linebacker no longer seems so certain.
Moving guys around is something Auburn’s coaching staff would rather leave until after the defense is installed, but the need to find playmakers at those positions may have changed the Tigers’ timetable.
“There’s been a little bit of crossover, but we’re trying not to,†Auburn coach Gene Chizik said. “We’re trying to settle guys in on positions.â€
Before that can happen, Auburn’s linebackers have to absorb the intricacies of VanGorder’s scheme. Evans, a senior, missed the spring due to a shoulder injury, and as a result, he’s way behind in picking up the defense.
Frost, a redshirt freshman, still faces a steep learning curve, and JaViere Mitchell, a true freshman outside linebacker, has been lost as he tries to make the switch from a high school defensive lineman to a college linebacker.
Even Holland, an experienced player who started six games last year, has struggled to assume his new role as the leader of the defense.
“Right now, we have a group of linebackers who, their numbers in the mental error category aren’t good,†VanGorder said. “So when you have that, you have to, at least, make a decision based on who’s going to be productive.â€
Despite Mitchell’s struggles, VanGorder wouldn’t rule out a freshman starting or playing a lot of snaps.
Mitchell’s classmate, Cassanova McKinzy, has shown the ability to make big plays, including forcing at least one fumble with a big hit on Corey Grant before Auburn even put on full pads.
“A lot on his plate, but the one I think that is apparent with him is that he does have some production ability,†VanGorder said. “He’s a bigger player that can run, and he has a very good attitude in respects to getting to the ball.â€
Like the rest of the roster, Auburn’s linebackers will have a chance to show they can produce big plays in tonight’s scrimmage.
“You have to have that edge to play hard and go hard and do what you have to do to win,†Bates said. “It’s nothing you have to practice. It’s just something you have to do.â€
A starting spot against Clemson could be riding on it.
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There's a picture of Cassanova's hit/fumble on Grant on the AU Official website. Can't get it to pull up right now for some reason. But, despite seeing the fumble, I developed an intense man-love for Corey's arms.
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There's a picture of Cassanova's hit/fumble on Grant on the AU Official website. Can't get it to pull up right now for some reason. But, despite seeing the fumble, I developed an intense man-love for Corey's arms.
So, actually you were able to pull it up?
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So, actually you were able to pull it up?
Last night. And I erred. It's Tre Mason's arms I love more.
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There's a picture of Cassanova's hit/fumble on Grant on the AU Official website. Can't get it to pull up right now for some reason. But, despite seeing the fumble, I developed an intense man-love for Corey's arms.
Who loves ya BA-BE
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/fbal12/grant_hit.jpg)
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I'm gonna go on record here. Jake Holland is the Clint Moseley of the defense.
He's slow, constantly out of position, often run over, too often just stiff armed out of a play...
If he's a starter the defense has concerns still.
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Last night. And I erred. It's Tre Mason's arms I love more.
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/fbal12/mason_1.png)
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(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/3003203_o.gif)
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(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/3003203_o.gif)
WTF ever man.
He was getting major air.
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Good fucking lord our defense sucked last year.
I watched that gif 11 straight times and found 11 mistakes.
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I'm gonna go on record here. Jake Holland is the Clint Moseley of the defense.
He's slow, constantly out of position, often run over, too often just stiff armed out of a play...
If he's a starter the defense has concerns still.
Spanish balloons? Jake take chance...!
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/aub/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/7921269.jpeg)
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You know he missed the tackle and look spectacularly bad doing it. At least he put himself in position and tried to make the play. More than I can say for some of the others on that one particular play.
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You know he missed the tackle and look spectacularly bad doing it. At least he put himself in position and tried to make the play. More than I can say for some of the others on that one particular play.
I didn't realize Neiko had so many brothers who played with him last year!
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I'm gonna go on record here. Jake Holland is the Clint Moseley of the defense.
He's slow, constantly out of position, often run over, too often just stiff armed out of a play...
If he's a starter the defense has concerns still.
Yeah...unfortunately, I agree 100%. During the Utah State game last year, he was out of sync then he was in sync.
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(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/3003203_o.gif)
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/no_problem.jpg)
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Saniflush, that avatar makes my dick hard.
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(http://www.tigersx.com/images/no_problem.jpg)
LMFAO! :facepalm: BBQ boyz.
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channeling da Prowler
Starting Lineup LB Position (by game 3)
Darren Bates
Cassanova Mckinzy
Kris "Mac Daddy..make ya Jump Jump" Frost
Boooom
/channeling da Prowler
Huh where am I? Why does my head hurt?
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Saniflush, that avatar makes my dick hard.
:puke:
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(http://www.tigersx.com/images/no_problem.jpg)
:bugs:
I chortled myself.
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I'm gonna go on record here. Jake Holland is the Clint Moseley of the defense.
He's slow, constantly out of position, often run over, too often just stiff armed out of a play...
If he's a starter the defense has concerns still.
I won't go that far. Moseley is bad. Jake, IMHO, gets a partial break due to the fucked up defense he's played in under Roof. He's just not good...yet. One GIF? Anybody can get juked. If he's not improved under the new D Staff, and I mean see improvement in Game 1, then I'll agree with the above.
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OLB Darren Bates
MLB Jake Holland
OLB Kris Frost
That'll be the starting LBers. Coach VanGorder is particularly hard on LBers, always has been, always will be....and it's not because they suck, it's because the LBers, particularly MLBer, are the heart of his Defenses. He's harder on them because they have to know every position and what they're doing to make the correct Defensive call in the matter of seconds. Holland was a first time starter last year and he had multiple injuries throughout the season...and he was only a Soph., plus he was being â€coached†by Coach Roof.
Remember Josh Bynes' Soph. & Jr. seasons?
Jake Holland isn't a LBer that plays sideline to sideline, he's a between the Tackles MLB.
So, again, stop with the â€if so & so is the starter we're doomed†bullshit...Kaos.
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Jake Holland isn't a LBer that plays sideline to sideline, he's a between the Tackles MLB.
So, again, stop with the â€if so & so is the starter we're doomed†bullshit...Kaos.
Odd, you didn't seem to think that when you gave him 5 grillz.
I could definately see him in the rotation. He's a headhunter that plays sideline to sideline, and attacks would be blockers.
Which also makes the following post comparing him to CJ Mosley amusing
IMO, Jake Holland is better than C.J. and I don't think that because I'm a homer.
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I'm okay with Holland and right now, he's the only 230+ guy we have in the rotation at that position. All I want is our defense to get in position, break down and tackle. NO MORE SHOULDER BLOCKING soemone to the ground. Darren Bates led the team in tackles last year. Lord only knows how. He was the world's worst at that shit. He played LB like he played safety. Fly up and leave your feet. I recall last year watching LSU play MSU and from the first play on, I was hollering at the TV...THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT. Just tackle!!!
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Odd, you didn't seem to think that when you gave him 5 grillz.
Which also makes the following post comparing him to CJ Mosley amusing
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m88zitooOD1r91bgy.gif)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m88ziab6zX1r91bgy.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6jlb1OURZ1rzz3r3o1_250.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4ifbmql1v1qfw2dno1_250.gif)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luyvcfDPK71r1cj3m.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmhjcvHNao1qewg7lo1_250.gif)
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Odd, you didn't seem to think that when you gave him 5 grillz.
Which also makes the following post comparing him to CJ Mosley amusing
...and I still think he was better than CJ coming out of HS. I don't have a crystal ball that shows me how a certain player will be THREE YEARS, a few injuries (including an ankle sprained) and apparently a bad LBer Coach later.
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Maybe the game is a little fast for him but he still has a chance to "develop" now that Stache is in charge. And I think most of us are expecting Frost to
make up for the glaring shortfall be Superman.
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So, again, stop with the â€if so & so is the starter we're doomed†bullshit...Kaos.
If Jake Holland is the starter our ass is going to be hurting.
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If Jake Holland is the starter our ass is going to be hurting.
You were just as certain that Moseley needed to replace Trotter.
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You were just as certain that Moseley needed to replace Trotter.
That was before I knew Moseley was a turtle.
Trotter was flailing and had lost confidence. Something had to happen. Too bad that was the option we had.
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That was before I knew Moseley was a turtle.
Trotter was flailing and had lost confidence. Something had to happen. Too bad that was the option we had.
It's kinda hard to be an effective QB in Coach Malzahn's system when you see #77's humongous backside getting shoved into your face, or the DE coming at you basically untouched on most passing situations.
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If Jake Holland Chris Todd is the starter our ass is going to be hurting (2009).
Yep, nailed that one Reggie... :facepalm:
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Yep, nailed that one Reggie... :facepalm:
If we can run it maybe our QBs can overcome their shortcomings with that punisher we have at FB. That's right, Prosch is choosing my rotation up front...the others will be limping around on the sidelines helmet in hand.
Best to keep lower body parts moving if you're in his path.
OMac might be safe.
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If we can run it maybe our QBs can overcome their shortcomings with that punisher we have at FB. That's right, Prosch is choosing my rotation up front...the others will be limping around on the sidelines helmet in hand.
Best to keep lower body parts moving if you're in his path.
OMac might be safe.
I'm more confident in our current QBs in this offense than I would be in Coach Malzahn's, not knocking Malzahn. It's just that the QB makes or breaks his offense, plus the defenses around the Conference had apparently caught up with it as well.
Coach Leoffler's offense focuses on the Ground and Pound running game, with playaction off of that and a lot of passes to the TEs.
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That was before I knew Moseley was a turtle.
Trotter was flailing and had lost confidence. Something had to happen. Too bad that was the option we had.
Why did a change have to be made, when the only option sux'd worse?
Holland was a first year starter as a Soph. last season, in a defense that all agree was poorly coached from Nose Guard to free safety, and everything in between. If Jake starts, you can pretty well bank it, he's shown to be the best option in BVG's eyes. And, it's a new scheme, and new coaches, plus Holland is a year older. I'll give him a chance to prove he really sux, and that it wasn't just youth, and bad coaching before I declare him no good.
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Yep, nailed that one Reggie... :facepalm:
Amazing. You had to dig back three years to think you found something (and unfortunately you didn't find anything at all).
If you'd done any actual research you'd see that I said the choice of Chris Todd indicated that Chizik intended to win and not throw away a year in the name of "rebuilding"
Pssst? Fail.
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Why did a change have to be made, when the only option sux'd worse?
Holland was a first year starter as a Soph. last season, in a defense that all agree was poorly coached from Nose Guard to free safety, and everything in between. If Jake starts, you can pretty well bank it, he's shown to be the best option in BVG's eyes. And, it's a new scheme, and new coaches, plus Holland is a year older. I'll give him a chance to prove he really sux, and that it wasn't just youth, and bad coaching before I declare him no good.
No reason to think at the time that the second option would be worse. And then it was.
Holland's overall suckage transcended coaching IMO. If he's our best option he'll play, but I draw no comfort from that concept.
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I'm okay with Holland and right now, he's the only 230+ guy we have in the rotation at that position. All I want is our defense to get in position, break down and tackle. NO MORE SHOULDER BLOCKING soemone to the ground. Darren Bates led the team in tackles last year. Lord only knows how. He was the world's worst at that shit. He played LB like he played safety. Fly up and leave your feet. I recall last year watching LSU play MSU and from the first play on, I was hollering at the TV...THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT. Just tackle!!!
You just wish you had his Fro-ullet.
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No reason to think at the time that the second option would be worse.
You mean, other than not being named the starter?
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You mean, other than not being named the starter?
And then he was.
So Chizik was stupid? This is what you're saying?
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I'm more confident in our current QBs in this offense than I would be in Coach Malzahn's, not knocking Malzahn.
Hold on.....Kiehl Frazier has played in Malzahn's offense since high school. His high school coach was also one of Malzahn's QBs at one time. But this new offense all of a sudden is going to give him a decided advantage over Malzahn's system?
Coach Leoffler's offense focuses on the Ground and Pound running game, with playaction off of that
I thought this was also the focus of Malzahn's offense? He even says it is a run-oriented offense. Or, was Mike Dyer recruited simply as a blocking back?
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Why did a change have to be made, when the only option sux'd worse?
I think most people start off with the reasonable assumption that their 1st string guy can't be THAT bad. But he was. When you have somebody that shitty, you can't help but to want to see the guy behind him. If nothing else, simply on a hope and a prayer that it lights a fire under his ass to not be as shitty as the guy ahead of him. Notice I didn't use the term "better". I think the best you guys could have hoped for was "less shitty" in that scenario. With a program like Auburn, you just don't expect to see QB play like either of those guys put out.
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...and I still think he was better than CJ coming out of HS. I don't have a crystal ball that shows me how a certain player will be THREE YEARS, a few injuries (including an ankle sprained) and apparently a bad LBer Coach later.
Sprained ankle? Seriously? CJ Mosley had his hip dislocated in the NCG. I guess he better hang up his cleats this season. It's a miracle that he was able to play again after his elbow dislocation. How that sprained ankle hasn't ended Holland's career, we will never know. I sprained my ankle twice playing baseball in the 3rd grade. The doctors weren't sure that I was going to make it. It was touch and go for days. When I broke my wrist playing football in 4th grade? They almost pulled the plug.
After all the things you come on here and spout, you're going to throw out the ol' "I don't have a crystal ball" line? Not surprising, really.
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And then he was.
So Chizik was stupid? This is what you're saying?
Pfffft
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I will reserve judgment until the season starts and see what BVG/Thig have done to coach him up. Going on past performances (and not just on gif of getting juked by a WAC TF QB), but I just don't see Holland as anywhere close to Josh Bynes.
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You mean, other than not being named the starter?
One reason why people had confidence in Moseley was because Chizik and the coaches said he and Trotter were dead even in preseason practice and spring practice. They gave the nod to Trotter because of experience.
Trotter wasn't the suckage he was until halftime of the Clemson game. Then he regressed. So everyone naturally thought that if they were even preseason and Trotter was getting worse, why not try Moseley to see if we can pick up with the offense?
Then Moseley sucked. Sucked hard. Sucked harder than any SEC QB I can remember.
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but I just don't see Holland as anywhere close to Josh Bynes.
Well for one thing Bynes is black, Holland is white. So those are definitely two different colors.
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Well for one thing Bynes is black, Holland is white. So those are definitely two different colors.
He's not the best color guy in the business for nothing, folks.
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Sprained ankle? Seriously? CJ Mosley had his hip dislocated in the NCG. I guess he better hang up his cleats this season. It's a miracle that he was able to play again after his elbow dislocation. How that sprained ankle hasn't ended Holland's career, we will never know. I sprained my ankle twice playing baseball in the 3rd grade. The doctors weren't sure that I was going to make it. It was touch and go for days. When I broke my wrist playing football in 4th grade? They almost pulled the plug.
After all the things you come on here and spout, you're going to throw out the ol' "I don't have a crystal ball" line? Not surprising, really.
So, when he doesn't perform that good this year, we'll just say he sucks and he's a fuckin retard that should stay home and eat crayons all day. Also, CJ's injuries haven't limited his mobility until he dislocated his hip (his mobility will be affected with that injury).
Btw, no one cares what you did in parkball.
And yes, Jake Holland was better than CJ Moseley coming out of HS, which is what I base my rankings off of...what they do in HS, not like the other recruiting websites that try and predict how players will do in College when they rank them.
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So, when he doesn't perform that good this year, we'll just say he sucks and he's a fuckin retard that should stay home and eat crayons all day. Also, CJ's injuries haven't limited his mobility until he dislocated his hip (his mobility will be affected with that injury).
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/aub/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/7921269.jpeg)
Jake like candy.
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(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/aub/sports/m-footbl/auto_headshot/7921269.jpeg)
Jake like candy.
Jake just pawn in game of life. :classic:
BTDub....Hey Jake, love ya' babe...but Josh Bynes could rock "The stare". You? Not so much.
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Jake just pawn in game of life. :classic:
BTDub....Hey Jake, love ya' babe...but Josh Bynes could rock "The stare". You? Not so much.
Me Jake
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/jake.jpg)
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Me Jake
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/jake.jpg)
Oh....shizzit.
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Me Jake
(http://www.tigersx.com/images/jake.jpg)
hard to believe that was Webster's dad in the 80's.
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Number one: This thread, despite being the mostly about the inept dry hump that is Jake Holland...manages to still be full of #winning.
Number two: If Jake is already splitting time with Cassanova..... He's screwed. And I don't care. Bring on the young Lovahboy.
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One reason why people had confidence in Moseley was because Chizik and the coaches said he and Trotter were dead even in preseason practice and spring practice. They gave the nod to Trotter because of experience.
Trotter wasn't the suckage he was until halftime of the Clemson game. Then he regressed. So everyone naturally thought that if they were even preseason and Trotter was getting worse, why not try Moseley to see if we can pick up with the offense?
Then Moseley sucked. Sucked hard. Sucked harder than any SEC QB I can remember.
Uh, Trotter did suck from game 1. It just didn't show up that badly until we faced a decent team. He refused to pull the trigger on time in the Utah State game. MSU sucked, and they also had no idea how badly we sucked offensively, and would have played us differently like other defenses did late in the season had they known.
Did Chiz/Malzahn make the right decision to bench Trotter? I think so, but it wasn't done because they thought Moseley was suddenly better, it was done in hopes the light might come on for him, because it hadn't for Trotter. They still knew he sucked and basically just were saying "what the fuck, it can't get worse". On that, they were wrong. But, just like Trotter won the job and regressed, Moseley probably looked much better on the practice field when he KNEW he wasn't going to be hit, and that's not unusual.
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Snaggle goes into the fetal position when he has the trots.
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Uh, Trotter did suck from game 1. It just didn't show up that badly until we faced a decent team. He refused to pull the trigger on time in the Utah State game. MSU sucked, and they also had no idea how badly we sucked offensively, and would have played us differently like other defenses did late in the season had they known.
Did Chiz/Malzahn make the right decision to bench Trotter? I think so, but it wasn't done because they thought Moseley was suddenly better, it was done in hopes the light might come on for him, because it hadn't for Trotter. They still knew he sucked and basically just were saying "what the fuck, it can't get worse". On that, they were wrong. But, just like Trotter won the job and regressed, Moseley probably looked much better on the practice field when he KNEW he wasn't going to be hit, and that's not unusual.
Game-winning drive(s) against USU.
Solid performance against MSU. (16-23 for 146 and 2 TDs)
Bad second half -- one bad play actually that screwed his head up -- against Clemson.
Acceptable effort against Fla. Atlantic (178 yards and 2TDs)
Game-winning drive against So. Carolina.
Complete fucktard against Arkansas
Sucked against Florida for a half and disappeared until the bowl.
Won the bowl by himself.
Total 1184 yards and 11 TDs.
And then Moseley:
Florida 4-7 for 90 yards
Complete fucktard against LSU
Good game vs. Ole Miss
Complete fucktard vs. Georgia
Complete fucktard vs. Samford
Complete fucktard vs. Alabama
Complete fucktard for one quarter in Bowl.
Finished with 800 yards and 5 TD passes. FOUR of those TDs came against Ole Miss. Only had one the entire year otherwise.
Moseley = Complete fucktard.
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Game-winning drive(s) against USU.
Solid performance against MSU. (16-23 for 146 and 2 TDs)
Bad second half -- one bad play actually that screwed his head up -- against Clemson.
Acceptable effort against Fla. Atlantic (178 yards and 2TDs)
Game-winning drive against So. Carolina.
Complete fucktard against Arkansas
Sucked against Florida for a half and disappeared until the bowl.
Won the bowl by himself.
Total 1184 yards and 11 TDs.
And then Moseley:
Florida 4-7 for 90 yards
Complete fucktard against LSU
Good game vs. Ole Miss
Complete fucktard vs. Georgia
Complete fucktard vs. Samford
Complete fucktard vs. Alabama
Complete fucktard for one quarter in Bowl.
Finished with 800 yards and 5 TD passes. FOUR of those TDs came against Ole Miss. Only had one the entire year otherwise.
Moseley = Complete fucktard.
[/quote]Yet the coaches elected to alternate Moseley with Frazier, who wasn't allowed to pass. Moseley has been ailing since the Spring and still there is a QB competition. This doesn't give me comfort in the coaches confidence in Frazier.
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Yet the coaches elected to alternate Moseley with Frazier, who wasn't allowed to pass. Moseley has been ailing since the Spring and still there is a QB competition. This doesn't give me comfort in the coaches confidence in Frazier.
Speaking specifically from a management standpoint this doesn't really concern me. When I am trying people in a new position, it is a competition. Even if I already think I know which way it will go in the end.
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Speaking specifically from a management standpoint this doesn't really concern me. When I am trying people in a new position, it is a competition. Even if I already think I know which way it will go in the end.
And it's customary coachspeak. I'm sure just about every school has an "open" quarterback competition right now.
Kind of like how prior to 2010, there was a quarterback competition up until the last week of fall practice.
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Also, CJ's injuries haven't limited his mobility until he dislocated his hip (his mobility will be affected with that injury).
So, your crystal ball only covers injuries. Got it.
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And it's customary coachspeak. I'm sure just about every school has an "open" quarterback competition right now.
Kind of like how prior to 2010, there was a quarterback competition up until the last week of fall practice.
Any program that has a QB situation like ours coming off of last season, and the guy that might have been "the guy" elects not to play his RS Sr. Season...yeah, it's an open competition.
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Game-winning drive(s) against USU.
Solid performance against MSU. (16-23 for 146 and 2 TDs)
Bad second half -- one bad play actually that screwed his head up -- against Clemson.
Acceptable effort against Fla. Atlantic (178 yards and 2TDs)
Game-winning drive against So. Carolina.
Complete fucktard against Arkansas
Sucked against Florida for a half and disappeared until the bowl.
Won the bowl by himself.
Total 1184 yards and 11 TDs.
And then Moseley:
Florida 4-7 for 90 yards
Complete fucktard against LSU
Good game vs. Ole Miss
Complete fucktard vs. Georgia
Complete fucktard vs. Samford
Complete fucktard vs. Alabama
Complete fucktard for one quarter in Bowl.
Finished with 800 yards and 5 TD passes. FOUR of those TDs came against Ole Miss. Only had one the entire year otherwise.
Moseley = Complete fucktard.
Please don't use USU, and FIU to bolster any argument for Trotter. State was not much better, and as I said, they were early, and defenses/DCs figured out what weapons we didn't have, and adjusted. I bet we didn't run the Buck Sweep 10 times the last 2/3 of the season. Teams "figured us out" because we had so little to figure out, then some time in the middle of the season Chiz took the only thing Malzahn had away, and made him slow the offense down. (When I say that, it's not a dig at Chiz...Chiz did a masterful job of getting 8 wins out of that talent set in the SEC)
I'll have to go back and check, but I bet I recall you were calling for Trotter's head early too. I admit to being a hold out on calling for his head early, thinking he'd get better. I was in the minority, and was wrong, yet had zero confidence Moseley would be better.
The bowl game was vs a mediocre ACC team. Auburn doesn't play in the ACC, but if we did, we'd win it 7 out of 10 times with talent like we had last year. Trotter also had no pressure to perform. He knew it was his last game, and he came in as the back up.
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I understand the competition/coachspeak approach but had rather not witness another dog and pony show which was our offense after it was dumbed-down to suit our personnel. The lack of decent protection, repetitive play calling and shuffle of QBs was maddening and future high profile prospects (including their parents, hs coaches and recruiters need only use last season as an example to sway a kid in another direction.
We are left with a spread QB cut from the cloth of Malzahn's legendary influence as a high school coaching god. And yet he wasn't allowed one solitary throw or given a chance to fail as I see it. We have the former Mr. Football from Leroy who fought through the disappointment of not being named the starter only to find himself relieving his (friend) counterpart. Meanwhile, we have a problem child in the fold that is cluttering the depth chart with his antics and we lose out on other possible future talent as we pray for his sorry-assed nature to change. Okay Chizik cuts him loose and we snap up another that is purported to have just what we need although no one could possibly have a clue at the time because he could have just as easilly ended up at USM or Troy before Auburn offered. It doesn't help that our offense went from dynamic to the current trend of our rivals. Serviceable game managers can be found if that's what you are shooting for (not to be confused with Lloyd Carr's fish in a barrel approach while Loeffler was still green in the gills)
I guess I am left with the idea that George whatshisname (Cam's QB tutor) or another such could have been employed through various means (no not Uncle Miltie) to add polish to the younguns and correct some mechanical flaws in their game while we were in transition. Instead we are left with a QB crapshoot.
Hey...you might not like my way of thinking but I'm not about to fall prey to the sunshine pumping or excuses for the tragedy that followed the greatest one season of offense we have or will ever witness again at Auburn.
Someone like Jameis Winston might better appreciate this sidewalk fan's analogy from a perspective unlike that of an AU alum.
8 wins.
Anything more is a monumental success given the state of the SEC West, the QB tragedy of Malzahn/current QB "competition" and the defenseless Roof saga.
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Kile Fwazer will be the man. No worries.
We have a coordinators now that apparently demand perfection and won't accept less.
What was your impression of the scrimmage, Coach?
We ran 70 plays today and 67 of them were okay. That means 3 of them sucked, which means we have a long way to go.
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Please don't use USU, and FIU to bolster any argument for Trotter. State was not much better, and as I said, they were early, and defenses/DCs figured out what weapons we didn't have, and adjusted.
I'll have to go back and check, but I bet I recall you were calling for Trotter's head early too. I admit to being a hold out on calling for his head early, thinking he'd get better. I was in the minority, and was wrong, yet had zero confidence Moseley would be better.
So the game winning drives against USU don't count? And the fact that he didn't look like a total fucktard (a la Moseley vs. Samford) against FIU doesn't count?
Trotter was streaky against State. Early on it looked bad but then in the second and third quarter we scored on five of six possessions. Thought he had it figured out.
Was I calling for a change? Probably. But only because he sometimes looked lost and hesitant. Moseley turned out to be no better and was in fact substantially worse.
The management of the QB position last year was -- IMO -- the worst I've ever seen. Everything the staff did was wrong. Trotter clearly didn't play well when he was a play away from being yanked. Changed to Moseley and he was absolutely abysmal. but didn't give Trotter another chance. Supposedly held Frazier down to the point he started bitching about being told not to throw -- and his confidence was impacted. It was a piss poor job all the way around.
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So the game winning drives against USU don't count? And the fact that he didn't look like a total fucktard (a la Moseley vs. Samford) against FIU doesn't count?
Trotter was streaky against State. Early on it looked bad but then in the second and third quarter we scored on five of six possessions. Thought he had it figured out.
Was I calling for a change? Probably. But only because he sometimes looked lost and hesitant. Moseley turned out to be no better and was in fact substantially worse.
The management of the QB position last year was -- IMO -- the worst I've ever seen. Everything the staff did was wrong. Trotter clearly didn't play well when he was a play away from being yanked. Changed to Moseley and he was absolutely abysmal. but didn't give Trotter another chance. Supposedly held Frazier down to the point he started bitching about being told not to throw -- and his confidence was impacted. It was a piss poor job all the way around.
THIS. Especially with Frazier. I think I'd have rather redshirted the guy.
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So the game winning drives against USU don't count? And the fact that he didn't look like a total fucktard (a la Moseley vs. Samford) against FIU doesn't count?
Trotter was streaky against State. Early on it looked bad but then in the second and third quarter we scored on five of six possessions. Thought he had it figured out.
Was I calling for a change? Probably. But only because he sometimes looked lost and hesitant. Moseley turned out to be no better and was in fact substantially worse.
The management of the QB position last year was -- IMO -- the worst I've ever seen. Everything the staff did was wrong. Trotter clearly didn't play well when he was a play away from being yanked. Changed to Moseley and he was absolutely abysmal. but didn't give Trotter another chance. Supposedly held Frazier down to the point he started bitching about being told not to throw -- and his confidence was impacted. It was a piss poor job all the way around.
It shows me that at least Trotter had potential and showed flashes. Something wasn't right in the head with him most of the season. Maybe it was the constant looking over his shoulder, who knows. He at least won us some ballgames, most notably the bowl. He looked great against Vagina in the A-T-L. Just a hunch, but I think Loeffler could have gotten his head right. Moseley on the other hand has done jack fucking squat. He did enough in a few games not to piss them away (ie - Florida, Ole Miss). The team seemed to respond to his presence 'ok' the first few games like Florida, but after that it was horrid. The UGA was hard to watch. He made Drew Bledsoe look mobile.
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So the game winning drives against USU don't count? And the fact that he didn't look like a total fucktard (a la Moseley vs. Samford) against FIU doesn't count?
Trotter was streaky against State. Early on it looked bad but then in the second and third quarter we scored on five of six possessions. Thought he had it figured out.
Was I calling for a change? Probably. But only because he sometimes looked lost and hesitant. Moseley turned out to be no better and was in fact substantially worse.
The management of the QB position last year was -- IMO -- the worst I've ever seen. Everything the staff did was wrong. Trotter clearly didn't play well when he was a play away from being yanked. Changed to Moseley and he was absolutely abysmal. but didn't give Trotter another chance. Supposedly held Frazier down to the point he started bitching about being told not to throw -- and his confidence was impacted. It was a piss poor job all the way around.
Do they count? For what?
Coaches can't work magic. There's not a coach out there that could make you or me an SEC QB, or "manage us" if we were all he had to work with. You can only work with what you have talent wise, and sometimes it's not enough to get the job done, no matter how you manage it. And, coaches have to make decisions prior to knowing the outcome, where we get to critique them on the outcome. I still think getting to 8-5 with all the holes we had last year was a good job by Chiz. May not have been pretty at times, but damn sure could have turned out a shitload worse, and looked worse. JMHO, YMMV, but the only other real choice they had last year would be to have put Frazier in, tell him the job is yours because you're the future and the fucktard tandem of Trottsley isn't, and let him go, mistakes and all. Might have been great for the future, IF he is really the talent he's billed to be, but also might have meant a 5-7 season in 2011. But then again, what if it was so bad on him it destroyed his confidence, ruined him AND was a shitty season? Guess what? You say it was mismanaged. What if they put Trotter back in, and he sucks some, and is good some? Some say good, others say "they didn't give Moseley a chance and he knew Trotter was breathing down his neck". Get the picture? There's no win for a coach, when there's not enough wins. Everything is second guessed, and it's always assumed there had to be a better way to do it. I honestly believe 8-5 was the ceiling last year, and it was a good job of coaching to get there.
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Do they count? For what?
Coaches can't work magic. There's not a coach out there that could make you or me an SEC QB, or "manage us" if we were all he had to work with. You can only work with what you have talent wise, and sometimes it's not enough to get the job done, no matter how you manage it. And, coaches have to make decisions prior to knowing the outcome, where we get to critique them on the outcome. I still think getting to 8-5 with all the holes we had last year was a good job by Chiz. May not have been pretty at times, but damn sure could have turned out a shitload worse, and looked worse. JMHO, YMMV, but the only other real choice they had last year would be to have put Frazier in, tell him the job is yours because you're the future and the fucktard tandem of Trottsley isn't, and let him go, mistakes and all. Might have been great for the future, IF he is really the talent he's billed to be, but also might have meant a 5-7 season in 2011. But then again, what if it was so bad on him it destroyed his confidence, ruined him AND was a shitty season? Guess what? You say it was mismanaged. What if they put Trotter back in, and he sucks some, and is good some? Some say good, others say "they didn't give Moseley a chance and he knew Trotter was breathing down his neck". Get the picture? There's no win for a coach, when there's not enough wins. Everything is second guessed, and it's always assumed there had to be a better way to do it. I honestly believe 8-5 was the ceiling last year, and it was a good job of coaching to get there.
I think the poor handling of the QB and Dyer situations was ALL on Malzahn. I really do.
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Coaches can't work magic. There's not a coach out there that could make you or me an SEC QB, or "manage us" if we were all he had to work with.
I think the biggest question is, how is it that those guys were what the staff had to work with? They were hand picked by current coaches. I understand that the QB position is probably the most hit-and-miss in college ball, but how do you come up with 3 QBs all at once that can't hit the broadside of a barn, and/or simply shit their pants when a defender comes within 5 yards? Did they whiff on talent evaluation, or just not coach these guys?
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I think the biggest question is, how is it that those guys were what the staff had to work with? They were hand picked by current coaches. I understand that the QB position is probably the most hit-and-miss in college ball, but how do you come up with 3 QBs all at once that can't hit the broadside of a barn, and/or simply shit their pants when a defender comes within 5 yards? Did they whiff on talent evaluation, or just not coach these guys?
Actually Moseley and Trots were Tubs guys along with Rollison. Moseley and Rollison were in Chizik's 2009 first class but were all holdovers from Tubs prior year.
Chizik is 1 for 2 and could be 2-3 depending on Kiehl
Cam, Pike
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Actually Moseley and Trots were Tubs guys along with Rollison. Moseley and Rollison were in Chizik's 2009 first class but were all holdovers from Tubs prior year.
Chizik is 1 for 2 and could be 2-3 depending on Kiehl
Cam, Pike
I stand corrected, then.
I wasn't thinking Rollison, but I don't think he even had AU on his radar until Malzahn came along. Luper recruited him at OSU before moving to Auburn. Tubs' staff didn't recruit him.
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The only thing I'll say in Trotter's defense is had he been able to work behind the line we had in 09' and 10', I think we'd have a very different view of him. He was an accurate passer, good arm and enough speed to at least make defenses respect him in Malzahn's offense. All SEC possibilities? Hell no. But I think he could have matched Todd's production behind that same line. But, he was throwing behind a shit sandwich of a line and playing defenses that were getting progressively better and more athletic with each game and our line was getting their asses handed to them. And like Kaos said many times, he lost it somewhere in that Climpsum game. He genuinely looked scared and just wanted to unload the ball as fast as he could.
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I think the biggest question is, how is it that those guys were what the staff had to work with? They were hand picked by current coaches. I understand that the QB position is probably the most hit-and-miss in college ball, but how do you come up with 3 QBs all at once that can't hit the broadside of a barn, and/or simply shit their pants when a defender comes within 5 yards? Did they whiff on talent evaluation, or just not coach these guys?
Despite the fact that you're wrong on who recruited them, it's a dumb fucking question.
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it's a dumb fucking question.
Not really. It's the same thing that you never could answer during the season. Nobody disputed that the coaches didn't have shit to work with. It was obvious. I don't think anybody could have coached those guys up. The question simply was, how did it get to that point? How could nobody on the staff see that coming? What is the disconnect between being Mr. Football in the state, and the abortion produced on the field? etc, etc.
And speaking of Moseley, I think he was a Chizik guy. If I remember correctly, he got a call from Chizik around Christmas saying AU was interested, but wouldn't offer until Chizik hired a coordinator and that coordinator approved. Moseley even stated as such. I think the first week of that January he still didn't have an offer, because Malzahn was still preparing for a bowl game with Tulsa.
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Not really. It's the same thing that you never could answer during the season. Nobody disputed that the coaches didn't have shit to work with. It was obvious. I don't think anybody could have coached those guys up. The question simply was, how did it get to that point? How could nobody on the staff see that coming? What is the disconnect between being Mr. Football in the state, and the abortion produced on the field? etc, etc.
Why do you think they got Cam? Took chances on guys like Rollison and Pike and Wallace? WTF makes you think they didn't see it coming?
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And speaking of Moseley, I think he was a Chizik guy. If I remember correctly, he got a call from Chizik around Christmas saying AU was interested, but wouldn't offer until Chizik hired a coordinator and that coordinator approved. Moseley even stated as such. I think the first week of that January he still didn't have an offer, because Malzahn was still preparing for a bowl game with Tulsa.
I told everyone the day he was signed that if he ever took a meaningful snap at Auburn it mean a world of shit had gone wrong. Was I wrong?
If a guy like Moseley is available, and you have as many holes and slots to fill as we did at the time, and you can't get better, you sign him, and hope you're wrong and that he can play. I don't think for a minute any coach on that offensive staff ever REALLY thought he could play, they just hoped he'd never have to, and that if he did, he'd surprise.
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Cam came out early. I think they paid...err, signed him thinking he would most likely be their QB for the next 2 years while they developed guys like Rollison, Trotter etc.
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Why do you think they got Cam? Took chances on guys like Rollison and Pike and Wallace? WTF makes you think they didn't see it coming?
While I agree that they would have been morons for not taking Cam, you should have a plan after that. Ask Urban Meyer. I'm not sure how Rollison was exactly a "risk" coming in. Personally, I thought he was promising. Pike definitely was a risk, though. I think everybody saw that coming from a mile away. I just don't see how you're doing yourself any favors by attempting to fix risky experiments with more risky experiments.
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Cam came out early. I think they paid...err, signed him thinking he would most likely be their QB for the next 2 years while they developed guys like Rollison, Trotter etc.
You can't develop something from nothing, and I'm speaking of Moseley.
I do think Malzahn probably though Trotter could be as good as Todd. He had the physical tools, but just didn't have the mental make up for the real game. That's something that can be hard to spot in practice. It's never completely full speed. You made a good point earlier about the OL too...he might have been ok behind a line like 2010, but we'll never know.
Yeah they probably hoped Cam would be there 2 years.
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I told everyone the day he was signed that if he ever took a meaningful snap at Auburn it mean a world of shit had gone wrong. Was I wrong?
Stop stealing my pulpit. I said that early and often even as he was getting chains and cups.
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Of course, no one in their right mind thought Cam would do half of what he did. My take on Cam was if he could be reasonably close to as accurate as Todd was, his running ability should make the offense even better than 2009. And I was really pumped about what he could be in 2011. I'll take being proven wrong like that 100 times out of a 100.
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While I agree that they would have been morons for not taking Cam, you should have a plan after that. Ask Urban Meyer. I'm not sure how Rollison was exactly a "risk" coming in. Personally, I thought he was promising. Pike definitely was a risk, though. I think everybody saw that coming from a mile away. I just don't see how you're doing yourself any favors by attempting to fix risky experiments with more risky experiments.
It's called knowing you need a QB, and taking the best you can find at the time.
Almost forgot about the flirtations with the kid that left NC State for Wisc. They knew, and they had a plan...recruit a QB or 2.
I assure you their "plan," if it went that way, would be to have a 5 star QB like Cam playing, have one just like him in the wings "developing," and one just like them in the upcoming signing class, with each getting a year or 2 to "develop" and 2 to 3 years to play.
If IFs and Buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.