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Are You Serious?

AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2010, 10:07:50 AM »
Keep your tits and your tats to yourself, buttercup.  At least, I didn't blather about some off-topic subject with a know-it-all attitutude and chip on my shoulder...  But, that's just your style.  Whatever works for you... 

Well actually, the concept of wiki means...  Oh nevermind...  I forgot that you're almighty and omnipotent. 

My apologies...  You're too young/inexperienced to have that discussion from personal experience.  I should have done a better job identifying with you and sizing you up appropriately.  You likely haven't observed much of what I've referenced, so it likely sounded "egotistical" as you say.  My bad...  Live through a few generations of downbreeding like affirmative action and political correctness, and we'll revisit this from a personal perspective.  Of course by then, the blame-America-first lamestream media (aka. DNCTV) will likely be out of business, but I'm sure the Democrats will be funding a government-run news organization by then. 
 
Let me know when you have something intelligent to say without having to Google it. 
I think I see the problem here.

VandyVol mistakenly thought this was to be a discussion that involved facts and reality.

Had he known it was supposed to a pissing contest in which each party accused the other of being ignorant because of the relatively minuscule age difference between them, or that verifiable facts with actual sited sources were something to be scoffed at, rather than "cause I said so and I'm old so I just know", perhaps he would have approached the conversation from a different angle.
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Kaos

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2010, 12:41:48 PM »
I would rather go into an informed know-it-all rant that utilizes some form of evidence ....

You'd have to know something in order to perform this act.  Judging by your completely biased, massively uninformed, agenda-driven arguments in this and other arenas, I'm convinced you know very little of the world as it truly works.  You love to hear yourself talk and in doing so limit (essentially deny) the potential to actually learn something of real value.

Your rants are, therefore, not "informed" nor can they be characterized as "know it all."  They are better framed as "misinformed" and "know-nothing."

Come back in 15 years and make the same arguments if you can. I can tell you right now with no equivocation that you won't. Not only will your perspective have changed, but you will be appalled at the positions you once took. Unless, that is,  you simply don't have the capacity to learn from experience.
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2010, 06:14:22 PM »
I think I see the problem here.

VandyVol mistakenly thought this was to be a discussion that involved facts and reality.

Had he known it was supposed to a pissing contest in which each party accused the other of being ignorant because of the relatively minuscule age difference between them, or that verifiable facts with actual sited sources were something to be scoffed at, rather... 

Sorry sweatheart...  The Democrats continually come up with study after study claiming that "most" Americans are under-insured and require another gubm'et entitlement program to wipe their cute little bungholes when they take a doody.  They also tell me that global warming is real along with the Tooff Fairy and Santa Claus.  Pardon me for being a skeptic and scoffing, when I'm supposed to be blindly believing everything they tell me behaving like a lemming incapable of individual thought.  My bad... 

... than "cause I said so and I'm old so I just know", perhaps he would have approached the conversation from a different angle. 

Isn't that what I just said?
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2010, 07:10:38 PM »
Pardon me for being a skeptic and scoffing, when I'm supposed to be blindly believing everything they tell me behaving like a lemming incapable of individual thought.  My bad...  
Individual thought = just making shit up and going with it.

Or as Stephen Colbert calls it, truthiness. You are the real-life version of the caricature that he is satirizing.
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2010, 07:32:33 PM »
Now I has two massas tellin' me what I should and shouldn't believe! Oh noes!

So, let me get this straight bosses...an argument based upon the opinion of one person is not biased, yet an argument based upon statistics compiled by three separate organizations is biased.

I see the erruhs of muh ways bosses!  I shall never stray again!  Any time I wish to presents an informed argument, I is stayin' away from them informations and such.  I just be statin' your individual opinion as proofs and that will be enoughs.
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Kaos

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2010, 07:40:18 PM »
You are going to look back one day and wonder how you could have been so incredibly stupid.

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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2010, 08:20:25 PM »
Yessuh boss!  Studies are stupid.  We should dismisses all of thems as Democrat propaganda.  I learns quick, massa!
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2010, 08:22:59 PM »
Individual thought = just making poop up and going with it. 

Sorry...  I must be talking over your head too.  My bad again...   

You guys make sheep look like geniuses. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2010, 08:53:55 PM »
So, let me get this straight bosses...an argument based upon the opinion of one person is not biased, yet an argument based upon statistics compiled by three separate organizations is biased. 
Statistics...  That's good, boy.   :rofl:

I can Google too... http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/media/voters_see_all_networks_with_bias
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx?RelNum=6664
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/pollak/33632
http://www.mediaresearch.org/static/biasbasics/MediaBias101.aspx

But, that only shows that I can play your game.  We're not exchanging ideas or discussing anything.  This bores me...
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2010, 09:20:42 PM »
I'ma good little boy, so I won't be pointin' out the fact, massa, that you cited to a Rasmussen Report which, if you were to look at the entire report, is the same report to which I cited.  In fact, your own link be statin' the people believe Fox be supportin' the Bush campaign.  But I won't mention none of that, no massa...

Oh, and the UCLA reports?  Well, that be referrin' to thems ideas of what your average voter be in relations to them vague ideologies of "conservatism" and "liberalism" that you hates.  That report does not compare stations to bias based upon party affiliations...you know, them Republican or Democratic slants.  But I won't be tellin' you nothin' about it being irrelevant, cause I just nods my head and go back to my room in the barn.

I also won't be tellin' you that you submitted a Media Research survey that was based solely on people's opinions and not on any verifiable data regardin' the number and types of stories and guests.  I know you be extra mad with opinions unless they're your own, so we's gonna ignore that one boss.

And I be so glad that you pointed me to the liberal bias in CNN!  That sho did clear up the whole thing about Fox.  Since comin' under yo tutemuhlage, I understand the logic behind pointin' to CNN as having a Democratic slant (after I've already pointed that out via my second source) as a way to show that Fox News doesn't have a Republican Slant.  Completely clear to me now that you been teachin' me and all.  If it can be proven that CNN has a Democratic slant, then obviously Fox does not have a Republican slant.  Makes complete sense to me!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 09:29:05 PM by Vandy Vol »
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Kaos

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2010, 10:01:46 PM »
You're not really that far removed from my 19 year old daughter. She thinks she knows everything and will one day come around to realizing she knows absolutely nothing. 

It's okay.  You can't help it. 
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2010, 10:05:58 PM »
Yessuh, boss! Me and your 19 year old daughter looks at them studies like we shouldn't.  We's supposed to be lissnin' the Massa GarMan and his opinions.  We reads them books, too, like we shouldn't.  I read one that told me that thems World Wars occurred between 1914 and 1945.  But I now sees that if I point to that book as a source and merely cite them informations found within, then I am just claiming to knows everuhthin'.
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GarMan

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2010, 10:58:18 PM »
I'ma good little boy...

Nah... You're just a lemming.  Even as I mocked you, you still found it necessary to review the links that I posted.  Seriously?  <Replay Subject Line Here>  I have no interest in getting into a "pissing match" of who can Google the best for reference information and opinion polls.  As I said, there isn't much to that.  No exchange or sharing of ideas...  No discussion...  No brains...  No perspectives...  No value...  No nothing...  Again, that's boring to me. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2010, 02:42:10 AM »
Yessuh, massa!  I forgot that sharing of ideas only occurs when you're sharing your individual opinions and everyone agrees with you.  I had no idea that the posting of information wasn't sharing ideas.  It's not as if information is a visual expression of an idea or anything.  How silly of me to think that my points might be better reinforced if backed by cited data.  No siree, don't show me how many Republican stories have been aired on Fox News in comparison to neutral or Democratic stories; I know deep down in my heart that Fox News has no Republican slant in the slightest, and that's all that matters.  If I were writing an article or essay on the topic, then they'd just have to accept "Me" for every reference.  I mean, that takes some brain, right?  Declaring that Fox News does not have a Republican slant and passing this off as fact?  Making conclusive statements without doing any research or relying on anyone else's research?  Scoffing at the idea of any citation whatsoever, and denouncing every produced citation as biased, liberal garbage without one iota of evidence or explanation?  I can see where it's not as boring; you have the opportunity to let your imagination run wild.  Afterall, it's not being hindered by reality.
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Kaos

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2010, 07:24:22 AM »
At least my daughter has sense enough to know when to shut up so she doesn't make a complete ass of herself.  Maybe one day VV will learn that one, too.
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AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2010, 10:58:33 AM »
At least my daughter has sense enough to know when to shut up so she doesn't make a complete ass of herself.  Maybe one day VV will learn that one, too.
If so, that trait is obviously not genetic.
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Kaos

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2010, 11:02:42 AM »
If so, that trait is obviously not genetic.

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jadennis

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2010, 11:19:30 AM »
VV, can you cease the "yessa massa"-speak?  I was reading some of this but when I get to your post and it's written like that, I can't force myself to get through it.  A, it's not a natural read, and B, it's kinda creepy in a loony-bin kind of way....like you're breaking off into some alternate personality or something.

He's saying you're young and that so far in life experience hasn't had much opportunity to shape how you look at certain things.  What's wrong with that?  Why does that force you to go into "yes master" mode?  Just continue discussing...add some thought and insight to go along with the studies.

As for the studies, I get what he's saying.  For example, those studies that were posted to determine which networks presented material in a "negative" or "positive" light.  To me, that's a scientifically impossible thing to study or analyze, and certainly impossible to quantify objectively.  

Take the phrase "equal outcome for everyone".  That sounds "positive" and even compassionate to some people.  They think it's great....how could you be against wanting to help everyone achieve and succeed?  To others, "equal outcome for everyone" sounds like socialism and something America had nothing to do with as we rose from a handful of "colonies" to the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth.  So to me, that phrase is not a good one.  To someone else, it's sounds like a great humanitarian attitude.  So who is right and who is wrong?  Who is positive and who is negative?  Well that's gonna depend on you.  There is no scientific answer or way to "poll" that information.

I think what GarMan is trying to say, is that there are two ways to try to answer that question.  One is to read what others are telling you (on MSNBC or Fox News, or Rush, or Chris Matthews), or what a study seems to "reveal".  Another way is to live life long enough to be able to decipher what something really means.  To live long enough to recognize something that's dressed up real nice and has positive words like "hope" and "change", but is really not what it claims.  

He reference a good example...affirmative action.  Let's make sure minorities have equal opportunity and help them get into positions and jobs they would otherwise not get.  Sounds great, and the idea probably had some merit at one time.  But having lived through it, GarMan can now tell you that it's crap.  It's the same thing liberals want to push onto the nation in every regard these days.  Give someone a position or job regardless of whether they are the best, most qualified person for the job.  Give it to them to be "fair".  Again, sounds nice and humanitarian-like.  But if you lived through it, you know that all it did was give a lot of minorities a crutch to lean on, shifted responsibility of self-promotion from the individual "person" to the government, and kept a lot of deserving people out of jobs they were more qualified for.  

Anyway, I'm just saying, have the humility and foresight to understand that your life experience will change your views and shape your opinion, and that at some point down the road, your opinion, which by then will be shaped by real life experience, will be far more valuable and less biased to you than any "study" you can google.

PS. I don't think that all studies are worthless as references....but it does make them more relevant when they aren't essentially just another person's observation shaped by their opinion (and opinion that is of no more value than your own).

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AUChizad

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2010, 11:36:20 AM »
VV, can you cease the "yessa massa"-speak?  I was reading some of this but when I get to your post and it's written like that, I can't force myself to get through it.  A, it's not a natural read, and B, it's kinda creepy in a loony-bin kind of way....like you're breaking off into some alternate personality or something.

He's saying you're young and that so far in life experience hasn't had much opportunity to shape how you look at certain things.  What's wrong with that?  Why does that force you to go into "yes master" mode?  Just continue discussing...add some thought and insight to go along with the studies.

As for the studies, I get what he's saying.  For example, those studies that were posted to determine which networks presented material in a "negative" or "positive" light.  To me, that's a scientifically impossible thing to study or analyze, and certainly impossible to quantify objectively.  

Take the phrase "equal outcome for everyone".  That sounds "positive" and even compassionate to some people.  They think it's great....how could you be against wanting to help everyone achieve and succeed?  To others, "equal outcome for everyone" sounds like socialism and something America had nothing to do with as we rose from a handful of "colonies" to the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth.  So to me, that phrase is not a good one.  To someone else, it's sounds like a great humanitarian attitude.  So who is right and who is wrong?  Who is positive and who is negative?  Well that's gonna depend on you.  There is no scientific answer or way to "poll" that information.

I think what GarMan is trying to say, is that there are two ways to try to answer that question.  One is to read what others are telling you (on MSNBC or Fox News, or Rush, or Chris Matthews), or what a study seems to "reveal".  Another way is to live life long enough to be able to decipher what something really means.  To live long enough to recognize something that's dressed up real nice and has positive words like "hope" and "change", but is really not what it claims.  

He reference a good example...affirmative action.  Let's make sure minorities have equal opportunity and help them get into positions and jobs they would otherwise not get.  Sounds great, and the idea probably had some merit at one time.  But having lived through it, GarMan can now tell you that it's crap.  It's the same thing liberals want to push onto the nation in every regard these days.  Give someone a position or job regardless of whether they are the best, most qualified person for the job.  Give it to them to be "fair".  Again, sounds nice and humanitarian-like.  But if you lived through it, you know that all it did was give a lot of minorities a crutch to lean on, shifted responsibility of self-promotion from the individual "person" to the government, and kept a lot of deserving people out of jobs they were more qualified for.  

Anyway, I'm just saying, have the humility and foresight to understand that your life experience will change your views and shape your opinion, and that at some point down the road, your opinion, which by then will be shaped by real life experience, will be far more valuable and less biased to you than any "study" you can google.

PS. I don't think that all studies are worthless as references....but it does make them more relevant when they aren't essentially just another person's observation shaped by their opinion (and opinion that is of no more value than your own).


At least you're dignifying this with an actual response instead of "You're an idiot, cause you're in your late 20's." You will get an intelligible response. I'm sure VV will speak to you with the dignity your response deserved. The other two will likely continue to get Toby.

However, I still disagree.

The emboldened exert is the only real tangible example you used, so that is what I will reference. How have we as 27 year olds not experienced Affirmative Action? I won't speak for him, but I know it to be a bullshit policy just as much as you do. I too see where it served its purpose at one point in time, but believe that time has passed. I have been through the college admissions process. I have been through the hiring process several times. I have been at two separate Fortune 500 companies since graduating college half a decade ago (had to throw that out there, since Kaos maintains I bag groceries and live in my mother's basement).

You can argue this to your 19 year old children, but excuse us for taking offense to the comparison. We are adults with adult jobs who associate with other adults with adult jobs, many older than yourselves.

I'll let VV speak to his own achievements, but I know that graduating law school and starting your own business are things you don't just stumble into with a completely naive ignorance.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2010, 11:37:23 AM by AUChizad »
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Vandy Vol

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Re: Are You Serious?
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2010, 11:54:55 AM »
He's saying you're young and that so far in life experience hasn't had much opportunity to shape how you look at certain things.  What's wrong with that?  Why does that force you to go into "yes master" mode?  Just continue discussing...add some thought and insight to go along with the studies.

As far as me not being able to look at things a certain way because of my age, we're not talking about personal opinions that change over time.  We're talking about verifiable facts.  Does Fox News have a Republican slant in 2010?  Being older is not going to grant you the ability to conjure that answer out of thin air.  It's not an opinion that's shaped by age.  It's a question that, if it is to be answered, requires some information or reasoning as to why Fox News does or does not have a Republican slant.  Yelling from the mountaintops, "I'm a man! I'm 40! Fox News doesn't have a Republican slant!" doesn't cut it.

As for the studies, I get what he's saying.  For example, those studies that were posted to determine which networks presented material in a "negative" or "positive" light.  To me, that's a scientifically impossible thing to study or analyze, and certainly impossible to quantify objectively.

Actually, that was one portion of one of the studies.  They also surveyed how many Republican viewers there are for each station.  They also surveyed how many Republican guests were invited on each station.  They also counted the number of points of view presented on each station.  They also counted the number of times that journalists gave their own opinions.  Let's also not forget the number of individuals from the Bush administration who suddenly got hired by Fox News.  These aren't vague, subjective ideas that can't be quantified; they're identifiable events, persons and instances that can be quantified and compiled into statistics.

I think what GarMan is trying to say, is that there are two ways to try to answer that question.  One is to read what others are telling you (on MSNBC or Fox News, or Rush, or Chris Matthews), or what a study seems to "reveal".  Another way is to live life long enough to be able to decipher what something really means.  To live long enough to recognize something that's dressed up real nice and has positive words like "hope" and "change", but is really not what it claims.

What I am trying to say is that he has declared that Fox has little or no Republican slant.  He has done so without referencing to anything.  Regardless of what his long life has revealed to him, he's given nothing (life experience or otherwise) in support of his statement.  I'm not even talking about studies or surveys.  He can swear up and down to never use them for all I care.  He hasn't even given the first inkling as to why he believes Fox has no Republican slant.  The closest he's come to giving a reason is by stating that he leans right himself, and thus Fox doesn't seem that right-leaning to him (paraphrasing, of course).  Well, that's great and all, except that he had previously just went off on an entire rant about his hatred of "facts" being based on someone's personal opinion.  Yet he wants to compare Fox's political slants to his own personal political beliefs?  I guess we should get Nancy Pelosi in on this so that she can claim CNN leans right of her.

Anyway, I'm just saying, have the humility and foresight to understand that your life experience will change your views and shape your opinion, and that at some point down the road, your opinion, which by then will be shaped by real life experience, will be far more valuable and less biased to you than any "study" you can google.

Here's the thing:  I'm not debating political views and opinions in this thread.  I merely posted statistics that show that Fox News has a Republican slant.  We're not talking about whether affirmative action is good or bad, or whether Republicans or Democrats are good or bad.  We're talking about whether Fox News, through its journalists, stories and guests, displays a Republican slant.  It's not a "good or bad" value judgment.  I've never said that a Republican slant is a bad thing, nor have I ever subjectively commented on Fox News.  The number of Republican guests that Fox News has is not a personal opinion about Fox; it's a quantifiable fact.  The number of points of views that Fox News presents is not a personal opinion; it's a quantifiable fact.  So on and so forth.  While aging can and will affect your political views (something I've never argued with), it won't affect whether Fox does or doesn't have a Republican slant.
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"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." - Dean Martin