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Gay - Choice or Genetic?

Kaos

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2009, 06:07:25 PM »
Jack was mentally undressing you...
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

Tiger Wench

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 01:27:26 AM »
Jack was mentally undressing you...
Hello???  Are you new around here? Have you read the posts on this Board?  Steve has been drinking with these pervs on here - he should be used to that by now...
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2009, 08:19:28 PM »
No biggee.  I mentally undress myself every now and then.
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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

CCTAU

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »
It is a sin and an abomination in the eyes of God, just as many other things are.

What they do in their own bedroom is their business. Just don't try and force it on me and my family as "normal", for it is not.

There have been no reputable studies or tests completed that indicate it is genetic and not a choice. There was a study done a while back that many try and cite, but it was debunked. And you better believe that if it could be proven to be genetic, then that proof would be marched out for all of us noncomformists to be shamed with. Especially in today's wonderfully inclusive society.

Once the love never mentioned, now the love that won't shut up.

 
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Tarheel

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2009, 02:51:50 PM »
It is a sin and an abomination in the eyes of God, just as many other things are.

What they do in their own bedroom is their business. Just don't try and force it on me and my family as "normal", for it is not.

There have been no reputable studies or tests completed that indicate it is genetic and not a choice. There was a study done a while back that many try and cite, but it was debunked. And you better believe that if it could be proven to be genetic, then that proof would be marched out for all of us noncomformists to be shamed with. Especially in today's wonderfully inclusive society.

Once the love never mentioned, now the love that won't shut up.

 

I refused to weigh in on this subject mainly because it's not a terribly interesting political issue to me (and a personal religious bias) but that line is truly worthy of applause IMO!   :clap:
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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CCTAU

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2009, 03:12:17 PM »
I refused to weigh in on this subject mainly because it's not a terribly interesting political issue to me (and a personal religious bias) but that line is truly worthy of applause IMO!   :clap:

I think Falwell came up with something similar to that. many folks in the US would be just fine with letting folks do what they want in the privacy of their own abode. We just don't want the issue forced on us and our children.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Snaggletiger

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2009, 03:53:53 PM »
Gayness is genetic, plain and simple.  I have a test that will prove it conclusively.  If you are male, please watch the following commercial.  If you do not pop chub at some point in this 32 second video...

1. You are gay. 

2. You didn't know you are gay and therefore, it is genetic.


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My doctor told me I needed to stop masturbating.  I asked him why, and he said, "because I'm trying to examine you."

War Eagle!!!

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2009, 04:11:44 PM »
I think it is genetic. I don't think it is "normal" and I think that there are way too many people that are "gay" that are "gay" for the attention that it brings to them and because being "gay" is a way to speak out toward whatever bullshit they want to throw in peoples faces. Because of those types of people, it is hard to take the real gays seriously. I don't have a problem with someone being gay. Why would someone "choose" that life style...other than to get attention like I mentioned before. The gay people I know though are well spoken, don't throw it in your face type of people. They are who they are like I am who I am. They don't want special attention because they are gay, they just want to live their life.

Also, anyone that has been around children before would have to say that it is genetic. I have a little boy, and he is ALL boy. So are 99% of the little boys that he plays with. However, there is one boy, 6 years old, that is different. He is not bad. He is not wierd. He doesn't go around and try and grab my son's ass. He is just different. I would almost bet my next paycheck that that kid turns out to be gay. Maybe the kid just acts like he does because he has 2 sisters. I have no idea, only time will tell. But that kid would rather play dress up, and sing and dance than play war with the other kids. He doesn't know any difference. He is just doing what he likes to do. He is a kid and all kids do that...

And here is the kicker. He has an uncle that is gay. The kids don't know that he is gay, because he lives a private life and doesn't flaunt it, but he is gay. The boy's mother doesn't agree with her brothers lifestyle AT ALL...but doesn't condemn him for it either. It makes her sick to her stomach, but she doesn't tell him that. Any time the mother sees the boy trying to hang out with the girls, she makes him go pllay with the boys. Because her brother was gay, she never let her son even watch Cinderella or Snow White, or ANYTHING that could keep the boy from being ALL BOY. So it's not like she is a liberal parent that says..."Kids will be kids" and let's him do whatever he wants.

So is this just a choice that a 6 year old has? I have seen him do things that when I catch him, he has a look of embarrasment or shame on his face. Like just dressing up. I am not saying he dresses in womens clothing, but the dude just dresses up in anything he can. And he does it when he is alone. And I have walkked in on him being dressed up and singing and shit alone, and he has a guilty look. Is that because he knows what he is doing is wrong and chooses to do it anyway? Or is it because he is doing what he likes to do even though his mother tries to get him to do "normal boy" things?

And if you were around this kid for just a day or two, you would have no idea that I was talking about this kid. So don't think that he is some wierdo that is going to turn into the next Ru Paul. He isn't. He is just a good, well mannered kid, that I think is genetically gay...

Another thing, you ask me this 2 or 3 years ago and I have a stance like Tarheel and CCTAU. I am not a liberal hippy that thinks like this....
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 04:17:00 PM by War Eagle!!! »
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Pell City Tiger

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2009, 06:10:53 PM »
Gayness is genetic, plain and simple.  I have a test that will prove it conclusively.  If you are male, please watch the following commercial.  If you do not pop chub at some point in this 32 second video...

1. You are gay. 

2. You didn't know you are gay and therefore, it is genetic.



Not only has that commercial caused a rise in my Levi's, it has also made my cholesterol level shoot up over 100 points. Everytime it shows, I run to Hardees. It's got ahold of me.
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"I stood up, unzipped my pants, lowered my shorts and placed my bare ass on the window. That's the last thing I wanted those people to see of me."

CCTAU

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2009, 10:48:25 AM »
Another thing, you ask me this 2 or 3 years ago and I have a stance like Tarheel and CCTAU. I am not a liberal hippy that thinks like this....

As a little boy, I did whatever. I played dolls with my sister and my cousins. I would dress up too. But I also tore shit up like boys normally do. By the time I was in JR. High, I could cook, sew, etc. But I could also break down a lawnmower engine. I just had a thirst for knowledge and experience. I never had the desire to hold a dick in my mouth, but I did not see anything wrong with learning the things that all people had a chance to learn, male or female. So this kid may be a little on the softer side? Kids tend toward things that they find interesting. He may grow up to be gay, but more than likely, he'll grow up to be creative. All humans with a creative mind seem out of place at younger ages. But creative does not mean gay.

But I do see your point. I just try to keep from judging a younger child their actions until they get old enough to make that CHOICE.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Kaos

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2009, 04:29:32 PM »
As a little boy, I did whatever. I played dolls with my sister and my cousins. I would dress up too. But I also tore shit up like boys normally do. By the time I was in JR. High, I could cook, sew, etc. But I could also break down a lawnmower engine. I just had a thirst for knowledge and experience. I never had the desire to hold a dick in my mouth, but I did not see anything wrong with learning the things that all people had a chance to learn, male or female. So this kid may be a little on the softer side? Kids tend toward things that they find interesting. He may grow up to be gay, but more than likely, he'll grow up to be creative. All humans with a creative mind seem out of place at younger ages. But creative does not mean gay.

But I do see your point. I just try to keep from judging a younger child their actions until they get old enough to make that CHOICE.

So you played dress up with your cousins, could cook and sew, didn't want a dick in YOUR mouth, but were willing to explore all the other things? 

Why didn't you just come out and say you were a gay bama fan?
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CCTAU

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2009, 10:56:48 AM »
So you played dress up with your cousins, could cook and sew, didn't want a dick in YOUR mouth, but were willing to explore all the other things? 

Why didn't you just come out and say you were a gay bama fan?

Hehehehe.

Barbie was stacked. I couldn't keep GI JOE off her. And my cousins were actually very pretty girls. Turned out to be very pretty ladies. And even though it was bama, I still didn't date either of them. 

By the time I got to AU, I was very self sufficient. Saved a lot of money by being that way. It is always best to teach your son to do any and all things associated with surviving.

So in the end, (pun intended) we cannot determine whether or not someone will be gay by their actions as a young boy. But they say if he starts torturing and killing the local pets, you may want to beware.
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

Tiger Wench

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Re: Gay - Choice or Genetic?
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2009, 12:35:14 AM »
From Time magazine... kind of timely (haha)

Why Some People Are Gay: Notes (and Clues) from the Animal Kingdom
By John Cloud
Friday, Jun. 19, 2009

We have known for at least a decade that hundreds of animal species — including birds, reptiles, mollusks and, of course, humans — engage in same-gender sexual acts. But no one is quite sure why. After all, same-sex couplings don't usually result in offspring. (I say usually because when male marine snails pair with other males, one partner conveniently changes sex, allowing for reproduction.) Evolutionarily speaking, homosexuality should have disappeared long ago.

A yearlong study just completed at the University of California at Riverside offers several fascinating competing theories about why same-gender sexual behavior has endured. And although it's gay-pride month — and the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall riots that sparked the gay-rights movement — not all the theories will give same-gender-loving humans a reason to celebrate.

One particularly charged finding is that in most species besides humans, same-gender pairings rarely lead to lifelong relationships. In other words, when one attractive bonobo male eyes another in a lovely patch of Congo swamp forest, they occasionally kiss and then move on to other oral pleasures, but they don't bother anyone afterward about trying to legalize their right to an open-banana-bar ceremony. In fact, they are likely to move on to girl bonobos: most animals that engage in same-gender sex acts do so only when an opposite-sex partner is unavailable.

And yet the study's authors, Nathan Bailey and Marlene Zuk of UC Riverside's biology department, report some exceptions, like the laysan albatross. Last year, researchers studying a Hawaiian colony of albatrosses found that nearly a third of all the couples involved two females who courted and then shared parenting responsibilities. (Albatrosses don't have U-Hauls, so no lesbian jokes, please.) Male chinstrap penguins also form long-term relationships, at least in captivity. And some male bighorn sheep will mount females only after the females adopt male-like behaviors.

What explains all these variances? Here are some hypotheses I collected from Bailey and Zuk's paper as well as from some of their original sources:

1. The boys-in-the-locker-room theory. Any guy who played sports in high school knows that homoerotic jokes and towel-snapping are an underlying part of the subculture. Similarly, male bottlenose dolphins use same-sex sexual behavior to maintain and strengthen their social relationships — although dolphins are far more explicit about their homosexual play, regularly mounting one another and (hide the kids' ears here) sticking their noses into certain boy-dolphin parts. (Very regularly: roughly half of male dolphin sex occurs with other males.) Among bonobos, same-sex sexual behavior is also thought to ease social tension and facilitate reconciliation. And among garter snakes, male-on-male contact may allow some solitary males to thermoregulate and, therefore, survive.

2. The emasculation theory. Some male animals might mount other males as a way of denying them access to the ladies. For instance, as the Journal of Natural History noted in 2006, male dung flies often must compete violently to impregnate females. In those situations, "the most sensible strategy for beating a competitor in the race to an arriving female would be to mount him and remain in situ for as long as possible." Then, when the lady dung fly finally sails by, the aggressor male can pull himself out from the dominated male and — because he is on top — get above to the female faster.

3. The "oops" theory. Among insects, same-sex sexual behavior is usually a case of mistaken identity. Male fruit flies, for instance, may romance other males because they lack a gene that enables them to distinguish between sexes. Even more surprising, male toads can't tell the difference between girl toads and boy toads, so males will routinely embrace other males, although the subordinate ones are equipped with a call that quickly results in the dominant male releasing. In other species, the "straight" males get tricked by other wily straight males who dress in animal drag: male goodeid fish, for instance, sometimes have a black spot that resembles a spot that females get when pregnant. Dominant males then court them rather than fight with them. While the dominant guys are busy courting the subordinate, ladylike fish, the latter are able to "sneak copulations with females," as Bailey and Zuk write. I'm going to dub this the Hugh Grant Theory: it's not always the most masculine guy who gets the most girls.

4. The let's-see-how-this-thing-works theory. Younger animals (particularly males, and including humans) sometimes engage in same-sex sexual behavior as practice, which may improve their reproductive success when they are ready for a heterosexual relationship later. Fruit flies who experiment with other members of the same sex as youngsters may have more baby fruit flies later on than those who don't experiment.

5. The two-plus-one theory. Among flour beetles, males routinely force themselves on other males. According to Bailey and Zuk, there's some evidence that sperm deposited during this male beetle rape is sometimes transferred to a female later on, increasing the chances that she will have offspring.

What all these theories have in common is that same-sex sexual activity is either an accident or a quirky genetic method of helping males impregnate females. Which raises the evolutionary question of why men and women who are exclusive gay and lesbian exist. One answer is that exclusive gays and lesbians are a relatively new creation: the concept of exclusive homosexuality barely existed before modernity; even a century ago, most same-sex-attracted men and women got married and had kids.


As Bailey, Zuk and many others have pointed out, no one has offered an adequate evolutionary explanation for the relatively recent development of exclusive homosexuality among humans. In January, the journal Evolution and Human Behavior published a paper exploring the idea that certain alleles increase the likelihood of homosexuality by blocking the effect of androgens during fetal development. Having all those alleles hampers the masculinization of some parts of the brain that affect personality, making you gay, the theory goes. Brothers of gay men who have only some of the alleles would turn out straight but less aggressive than typical guys. And because those brothers exhibit less psychopathology, they would attract more women and therefore have more kids. It was a provocative theory, but it turned out not to be proved: gay men's brothers don't actually have more kids than straight men's brothers do.

So we're stuck at square one. As the 40th anniversary of Stonewall approaches, the question that Alan Miller and Satoshi Kanazawa ask in their 2007 book about evolutionary psychology, Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters, has never been more relevant: Will "the liberation of homosexuals, which allows them to come out of the closet and not pretend to be straight" actually turn out to "contribute to the end of homosexuality?" We may not know for a thousand years, but it's a great question.
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