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QB's From the State of Texas

The Prowler

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2009, 09:11:53 PM »
That is the dumbest fucking argument ever. I guess you shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on politics since you have never been in public office? You can't criticize anything the president does because you're not any better? Total bullshit argument. My simple point is if one school in the entire country offered you (Troy), just how good are you? One way to gauge a recruit's skill is how many offers and where these offers are from. If you have a guy who has offers from virtually every school in the country, that tells you a shitload of coaches has evaluated him and they think he's pretty good. When you have say 5 Div-II teams offering you, that tells me either you have some major grade issues, or maybe you don't have alot of skill.
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wesfau2

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2009, 12:25:08 PM »
Nope.  I'm saying that Jason Campbell was the QB Auburn got, not Vince (who would have been wasted in Tuberville and Borges scheme anyway). 

Getting an occasional kid from Texas, California, Wisconsin or Idaho doesn't bother me.  If you're talking about a strategy of focusing on Texas because that's where these new coaches came from, I'm telling you now that it is a fail. 

You can't serve two masters.  You can't have your coaches out burning up the desert in Texas hoping to compete with Texas, OU, Tech, A&M, Nebraska, Baylor, SMU, Arkansas, North Texas, TCU, New Mexico, Arizona and the rest and still do an adequate job of maintaining your strengths. 

In the end you'll lose on both ends. 

The Chiz tried to recruit Texas for Iowa State too.  While it will be easier to get a kid to come to Auburn than to an Iowa State type team, you're still looking at a difficult sell.  Why?  Because mom and dad want to be able to come see their son play and they don't want to have to buy a plane ticket to do so every weekend.

But whatever.

I think Kaos's point is valid.  But I do not agree, because I think his analysis is shallow and incomplete. 

If I may restate Kaos's point (correct me if I get it wrong, of course): Recruiting TX requires a reallocation of our resources that have traditionally been focused in AL, MS, GA.  These traditional efforts have been the genesis of our success and the foundation upon which our program is built.  It is inefficient to expend finite resources (time and money) on non-traditional recruiting grounds to the detriment of our efforts in our traditional recruiting grounds.  This is the cost/benefit analysis:  is the cost of expending our resources in TX going to present enough benefit to counterbalance the reduced resources spent in our traditional recruiting territory (presumably leading to lesser results in this area)?

If that is the sum total of your argument, then I must respectfully disagree and suggest that there is another analysis at play.  The cost/benefit analysis is important, but there is also the risk/reward analysis to consider.  The cost/benefit assumes that the value of the top recruits in AL, MS, GA is equal to or greater than the value of the top recruits in TX.  I submit that it is not.  The top TX recruits are generally rated much higher than the top AL recruits.  Therefore, if we spend some resources in TX and snag one or two of their top recruits, this is, qualitatively, better than snagging the top one or two recruits in AL, MS or GA.  The risk of not wasting time/money in TX is, in my opinion, outweighed by the reward potential in signing those kids.

I have intentionally left FL out of this analysis because, until recently (the Tuberville area) this pipeline has been sporadic and unreliable.  Tuberville, due to his time coaching in SoFL, and his staff built a very nice pipeline to that area, but I do not know if these relationships will be maintained under the new staff.  I hope that they are, FL is a very fertile recruiting ground, of course, but due to the uncertainty of the HS coaches' reception of the new staff at AU, I felt it prudent to exclude FL from the discussion.

This is my long winded way of saying, I am happy that our staff is recruiting TX.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2009, 01:32:32 PM »
I commend the lawyer from Northwest Florida on his take.  I think if you establish somewhat of a "Pipeline" from a particular area, why not keep after it?  I certainly don't anticipate this staff foresaking our traditional recruiting grounds by any means.  But, if these new coaches have some connections in Texas, it would be stupid not to tap into a resource like that.  Somehow, Auburn established a good relationship with the coaches and players in south Florida years ago.  Eddie Gran worked that area for Tuberville and that's not exactly a traditional recruiting area for us.  But, Auburn has consistently pulled in some big time players from there. I would imagine it's just as long a trek or flight to Ft. Lauderdale/Miami as it is to Texas.

As several have said, if we could pull in 2-3 top kids each year from Texas, why not?  And the chance to play in the SEC is not exactly chopped livah. 
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boartitz

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2009, 01:33:04 PM »
I think Kaos's point is valid.  But I do not agree, because I think his analysis is shallow and incomplete. 

If I may restate Kaos's point (correct me if I get it wrong, of course): Recruiting TX requires a reallocation of our resources that have traditionally been focused in AL, MS, GA.  These traditional efforts have been the genesis of our success and the foundation upon which our program is built.  It is inefficient to expend finite resources (time and money) on non-traditional recruiting grounds to the detriment of our efforts in our traditional recruiting grounds.  This is the cost/benefit analysis:  is the cost of expending our resources in TX going to present enough benefit to counterbalance the reduced resources spent in our traditional recruiting territory (presumably leading to lesser results in this area)?

If that is the sum total of your argument, then I must respectfully disagree and suggest that there is another analysis at play.  The cost/benefit analysis is important, but there is also the risk/reward analysis to consider.  The cost/benefit assumes that the value of the top recruits in AL, MS, GA is equal to or greater than the value of the top recruits in TX.  I submit that it is not.  The top TX recruits are generally rated much higher than the top AL recruits.  Therefore, if we spend some resources in TX and snag one or two of their top recruits, this is, qualitatively, better than snagging the top one or two recruits in AL, MS or GA.  The risk of not wasting time/money in TX is, in my opinion, outweighed by the reward potential in signing those kids.

I have intentionally left FL out of this analysis because, until recently (the Tuberville area) this pipeline has been sporadic and unreliable.  Tuberville, due to his time coaching in SoFL, and his staff built a very nice pipeline to that area, but I do not know if these relationships will be maintained under the new staff.  I hope that they are, FL is a very fertile recruiting ground, of course, but due to the uncertainty of the HS coaches' reception of the new staff at AU, I felt it prudent to exclude FL from the discussion.

This is my long winded way of saying, I am happy that our staff is recruiting TX.
Say you're looking for a whorehouse.
Go to the biggest and best one. The small local places will only have a couple of good looking girls and everyone picks them.
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Saniflush

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2009, 01:37:17 PM »
Say you're looking for a whorehouse.
Go to the biggest and best one. The small local places will only have a couple of good looking girls and everyone picks them.

<sniff. sniff.> I think I'm gonna cry.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

wesfau2

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2009, 01:39:02 PM »
Say you're looking for a whorehouse.
Go to the biggest and best one. The small local places will only have a couple of good looking girls and everyone picks them.

Exactly. 

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Snaggletiger

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2009, 02:08:46 PM »
Say you're looking for a whorehouse.
Go to the biggest and best one. The small local places will only have a couple of good looking girls and everyone picks them.

Analogy, thy name is Boartitz. 
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Kaos

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2009, 02:41:02 PM »
Thanks for stating my position more eloquently. 

This is my final say on the matter. 

Fucking around in Texas will be a bust.  Not only will it be a bust, but it will detract from Auburn's ability to maintain the ties that have served us so well over the years in our "wheelhouse" of Florida, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi. 

I have no issue with targeting certain players from any state. But as an overall recruiting strategy, burning up the Texas highways will be an ass up. 

I don't care how many vendors Chopper can see in a week.  All of those vendors don't have presentations on the same night at the same time.  Not even the miracle Drama Llama can be in more than one place at a time. 

Please to be continuing your euphoria.  In four or five years you can tell me if I was right or wrong. 


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Saniflush

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2009, 02:48:00 PM »
  In four or five years you can tell me if I was right or wrong. 


I won't need that long to know if we have turned our back on the bread and butter areas. 
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Snaggletiger

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2009, 02:57:58 PM »

I won't need that long to know if we have turned our back on the bread and butter areas. 

I'm hungry.
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wesfau2

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2009, 02:59:38 PM »
Thanks for stating my position more eloquently. 

I just lost $5 to myself in a bet that I'd get that wrong somehow.

Quote
This is my final say on the matter. 

Fucking around in Texas will be a bust.  Not only will it be a bust, but it will detract from Auburn's ability to maintain the ties that have served us so well over the years in our "wheelhouse" of Florida, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi. 

I have no issue with targeting certain players from any state. But as an overall recruiting strategy, burning up the Texas highways will be an ass up. 

I don't care how many vendors Chopper can see in a week.  All of those vendors don't have presentations on the same night at the same time.  Not even the miracle Drama Llama can be in more than one place at a time. 

Please to be continuing your euphoria.  In four or five years you can tell me if I was right or wrong. 




I'm not euphoric about the TX strategy, but I do believe there is some gain to be had in the situation.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2009, 03:07:16 PM »
The problem I'm having with this argument is I haven't seen anything to suggest Auburn is going to make Texas one of it's priorities in the future.  Recruiting 2-3 kids from there late in the game doth not a strategy make.  As I said earlier, there's very few big names locally left on the board that haven't ruled Auburn out in one sense or another.  Why not use the connections you already have in Texas to pluck out some athletes to fill your roster? 

Tuberville had already dipped into Texas this year with the lineman who decommitted last week.  This staff has gone in and pulled out one of the top rated QB's in the land. I see no reason for that to be some cause for concern.   
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 03:09:40 PM by Harvey Birdman »
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Kaos

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2009, 03:11:58 PM »

I won't need that long to know if we have turned our back on the bread and butter areas. 

No, but you will need that long to determine if bringing Texas kids to the SEC will be a boon or a bust.  Let me reinforce the point some have apparently missed, I'm talking about an overall strategy of recruiting Texas as a whole and not the cherrypicking of individuals who might fit the program.

Chop posted his super duper list of great Texas QBs out there.  How many of those guys seriously play in the SEC?  Stafford and Snead?  How many actually could start?  Stafford, Snead, McCoy?  

Why did Stafford go to Georgia?  It wasn't because the Bulldogs were burning up the Texas trail. Stafford was the only person on their roster from the state.  His sister is also a student at UGA.  He was born in Tampa and lived in Dunwoody while his dad went to UGA.  He chose the Bulldogs, not the other way around. They didn't have to recruit him.

Why did Snead come to Ole Miss? Certainly wasn't his first choice.  He chose Texas but was going to sit there and justifiably so. He picked Ole Miss off the scrap heap because he could play immediately.  

There are a shitload of good quarterbacks in California.  Maybe Chiz should set up shop there, too.   And also Ohio.  

I feel the way I feel.  Can't change my mind on it.  Might be wrong. Hope I am and he doesn't waste three or four years chasing sagebrush in Texas.
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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2009, 03:14:07 PM »
Wesfau's and Harvey's last two responses sum up my position on this.  Also, I'd like to note that while it is true that I can not see all my "vendors" (they're clients) at the same time in different places, if I had even half the staff doing the job that Auburn has doing theirs, I'd have no problem being in more than one place at the same time.  That's only if Texas WAS my main, one and only priority.  Nobody here says it is.
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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2009, 03:22:22 PM »
Chop posted his super duper list of great Texas QBs out there.  How many of those guys seriously play in the SEC?  Stafford and Snead?  How many actually could start?  Stafford, Snead, McCoy?

Who fucking cares who only played in the SEC?  You going to tell me that that the other QB's on that list wouldn't start in the SEC if they had gone there?  I personally don't care if they're from Bumblescrew, Wyoming.  If they're the best, I at least want to guage whether or not we can get them to Auburn.  Again, why does posting that list make you feel that Texas all the sudden becomes our one and ONLY priority.  You talk as if we are saying that, I don't see it.

   
Quote
I feel the way I feel.  Can't change my mind on it.  Might be wrong. Hope I am and he doesn't waste three or four years chasing sagebrush in Texas.

So, do we have the right to tell you that you won't change ours?

 
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Kaos

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2009, 03:27:41 PM »
Who fucking cares who only played in the SEC?  You going to tell me that that the other QB's on that list wouldn't start in the SEC if they had gone there?  I personally don't care if they're from Bumblescrew, Wyoming.  If they're the best, I at least want to guage whether or not we can get them to Auburn.  Again, why does posting that list make you feel that Texas all the sudden becomes our one and ONLY priority.  You talk as if we are saying that, I don't see it.

   
So, do we have the right to tell you that you won't change ours?

 

I don't give a shit what you tell me, DL. 

And yeah, I'm saying most of the kids on that list wouldn't start in the SEC.  That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.  Congratulations on getting it right the first time and not wasting 24 pages on discussion about brownie recipes and the best route from Amarillo to Houston while you circled around it.
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Saniflush

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2009, 03:28:57 PM »
No, but you will need that long to determine if bringing Texas kids to the SEC will be a boon or a bust.  Let me reinforce the point some have apparently missed, I'm talking about an overall strategy of recruiting Texas as a whole and not the cherrypicking of individuals who might fit the program.
So Texas kids can't stand up to the mighty SEC caliber of football?  I'm calling shennanigans.  If you have talent you have talent.

Why did Stafford go to Georgia?  It wasn't because the Bulldogs were burning up the Texas trail. Stafford was the only person on their roster from the state.  His sister is also a student at UGA.  He was born in Tampa and lived in Dunwoody while his dad went to UGA.  He chose the Bulldogs, not the other way around. They didn't have to recruit him.

Still a Texas kid any way you cut it and did not play at the highest level of HS competition.

Why did Snead come to Ole Miss? Certainly wasn't his first choice.  He chose Texas but was going to sit there and justifiably so. He picked Ole Miss off the scrap heap because he could play immediately.  

The same could be said of Bo Jackson coming to AU.
There are a shitload of good quarterbacks in California.  Maybe Chiz should set up shop there, too.   And also Ohio.  

If he can cherry pick one  then maybe he should.


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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2009, 03:32:10 PM »
One would be hard pressed to say that these QB's could not start in the SEC

1. Colt McCoy, Texas (Tuscola Jim Ned)

  2. Matthew Stafford, Georgia (Highland Park)

    4. Brian Johnson, Utah (Baytown Lee)

  5. Jevan Snead, Ole Miss (Stephenville)

  6. Chase Holbrook, New Mexico State (Hurst L.D. Bell)

  7. Chase Daniel, Missouri (Southlake Carroll)

  10. Graham Harrell, Texas Tech (Ennis)

12. Casey Dick, Arkansas (Allen)

14. Jarrett Lee, LSU (Brenham)

16. Chase Clement, Rice (San Antonio Alamo Heights)

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2009, 03:38:25 PM »
I don't give a shit what you tell me, DL. 

And yeah, I'm saying most of the kids on that list wouldn't start in the SEC.  That's EXACTLY what I'm saying.  Congratulations on getting it right the first time and not wasting 24 pages on discussion about brownie recipes and the best route from Amarillo to Houston while you circled around it.

I hear ya.  You're always the first to get to the point.  Good effort at trying to stir the pot with your little quips and shots at me.  I've caught them, they're just weak and irrellevant.

As far as you saying QB's like Colt McCoy, Graham Harrell, Chase Daniel not being SEC level talent, you prove that you're more hell-bent on being different, calling people names and being the black sheep as opposed to being rational.

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Re: QB's From the State of Texas
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2009, 03:40:16 PM »
Why did Snead come to Ole Miss? Certainly wasn't his first choice.  He chose Texas but was going to sit there and justifiably so. He picked Ole Miss off the scrap heap because he could play immediately.

Jevan Snead also went to Florida, and it was after some kid named Tebow showed up that he transferred for a second time.  I'm sure you just forgot about that though.   
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