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What would it take?

wesfau2

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #320 on: June 04, 2024, 09:10:13 AM »
Here's some info from the Wall Street Journal:

In the Manhattan trial of former President Donald Trump, it seems that partisan judge Juan Merchan insisted on so many limits on the potential testimony of former Federal Election Commission Chairman Bradley Smith that the defense decided it was pointless to put him on the stand. But now the jurors can learn what Journal readers have known for more than a year—hush-money payments to alleged mistresses are not campaign contributions.

This weekend Mr. Smith noted this again on X and also explained in a series of posts why there was a big chronological hole in the claim that a 2016 payment to alleged mistress Stormy Daniels was improperly reported to avoid damaging news prior to that year’s election:

The payment to Daniels was made on Oct. 27. So the payment would not have been reported on the Pre-election report… The next report is the Post-Election Report…

In 2016, the Post-Election Report was required to be filed on December 8, one month after the election. So the prosecution’s theory, that Trump wanted to hide the expenditure until after the election, makes no sense at all…

Even if we assume, incorrectly, that it was a campaign expenditure, it wouldn’t have been reported until 30 days after the election. But again, none of this got to the jury, either through testimony or the judge’s instructions…

Merchan was rather obviously biased here, but I’ll give him the benefit of a doubt and say he was just thoroughly ignorant of campaign finance law, and had no interest in boning up on it to properly instruct the jury.

Mr. Smith sums up the issue under relevant federal law:

There was no illegal contribution or expenditure made, and no failure to report an expenditure. And even if we assume otherwise, the prosecution’s theory made no sense, suggesting no criminal intent.

Could this case look any worse? It seems that even if one made the error of regarding the hush-money payment as a campaign contribution, there would still be ample reason to question the constitutionality of the verdict. Steven Calabresi, who teaches law at Northwestern and Yale, writes for Reason magazine:

In 2010, in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 558 U.S. 310, the Supreme Court held 5 to 4 that the freedom of speech clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting independent expenditures for political campaigns by closely allied corporations and groups like The Trump Organization. Under Citizens United, it was perfectly legal for The Trump Organization to pay Daniels $130,000 in hush money to conceal her alleged affair with Donald Trump…

Groups contributing to election campaigns can pay for advertising to promote candidates, and they can also pay hush money to keep bad or false stories out of the news. The effect either way is to help the candidate. You can contribute money to generate good publicity. And, you can contribute money to avoid bad publicity. The First Amendment protects freedom of speech in both cases.

Mr. Calabresi adds:

The U.S. Supreme Court needs to hear this case as soon as possible because of its impact on the 2024 presidential election between President Trump and President Biden. Voters need to know that the Constitution protected everything Trump is alleged to have done with respect to allegedly paying hush money to Stormy Daniels. This is especially the case because the trial judge in Trump’s Manhattan case wrongly allowed Stormy Daniels to testify in graphic detail about the sexual aspects of her alleged affair with Trump. This testimony tainted the jury and the 2024 national presidential electorate, impermissibly, and was irrelevant to the question of whether President Trump altered business records to conceal a crime. The federal Supreme Court needs to make clear what are the legal rules in matters of great consequence to an election to a federal office like the presidency. A highly partisan borough, Manhattan, of a highly partisan city, New York City, in a highly partisan state, like New York State, cannot be allowed to criminalize the conduct of presidential candidates in ways that violate the federal constitution.

The Roman Republic fell when politicians began criminalizing politics. I am gravely worried that we are seeing that pattern repeat itself in the present-day United States. It is quite simply wrong to criminalize political differences.


Wes, I went ahead and forwarded your number to the Chairman of the Federal Elections Commission and to Steven Calabresi, courtesy of Yale and Northwestern.

You should link it:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/now-the-trump-jurors-can-be-told-4425ab87

And Elie Honig is a man.
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Kaos

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #321 on: June 04, 2024, 09:40:12 AM »
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Kaos

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #322 on: June 04, 2024, 09:54:29 AM »
A little trial transcript for you. 

Prosecutor: Ms Daniels can you describe in graphic detail how the defendant did it right in the butt?
Defense counsel: Objection. Relevance.
Judge (pleasuring himself under robe): Over-uh-uh-uhhh-ruled. I want to hear this.

Defense counsel: Your honor, we’d like to submit into evidence this affidavit from Ms Daniels denying this so called affair ever happened. 
Prosecution: Objection.  This hurts our case.
Judge (to defense): shut up bitch. I’m not allowing anything that could hurt my daughter’s fundraising job.  Sustained.

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #323 on: June 04, 2024, 10:21:58 AM »
A little trial transcript for you. 

Prosecutor: Ms Daniels can you describe in graphic detail how the defendant did it right in the butt?
Defense counsel: Objection. Relevance.
Judge (pleasuring himself under robe): Over-uh-uh-uhhh-ruled. I want to hear this.

Defense counsel: Your honor, we’d like to submit into evidence this affidavit from Ms Daniels denying this so called affair ever happened. 
Prosecution: Objection.  This hurts our case.
Judge (to defense): shut up bitch. I’m not allowing anything that could hurt my daughter’s fundraising job.  Sustained.

I am only well-versed in Bird Law, among other fringe lawyerings. Your post is enlightening & educational.
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wesfau2

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #324 on: June 04, 2024, 10:51:01 AM »
A little trial transcript for you. 

Prosecutor: Ms Daniels can you describe in graphic detail how the defendant did it right in the butt?
Defense counsel: Objection. Relevance.
Judge (pleasuring himself under robe): Over-uh-uh-uhhh-ruled. I want to hear this.

Defense counsel: Your honor, we’d like to submit into evidence this affidavit from Ms Daniels denying this so called affair ever happened. 
Prosecution: Objection.  This hurts our case.
Judge (to defense): shut up bitch. I’m not allowing anything that could hurt my daughter’s fundraising job.  Sustained.

About as accurate as anything else you've posted in this thread.
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Kaos

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #325 on: June 04, 2024, 11:18:50 AM »
About as accurate as anything else you've posted in this thread.

Just wave the white flag.  Get it over with. 

Admit you're wrong and begin the healing process.   
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War Damn Six

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #326 on: June 04, 2024, 11:51:23 AM »
How miserable are the two of you that you always have to be right?
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Snaggletiger

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #327 on: June 04, 2024, 11:53:25 AM »
How is a Judge basically silencing the expert witness from completely blowing the prosecution's case out of the water, anything other than reversible error?  Brad Smith, an expert on federal campaign finance law, was going to tell the jury that nothing in the way any payments were made, or how they were listed in expenditures, broke any laws whatsoever.  But Merchan wasn't having any of that. His justification?:

“There is no question this would result in a battle of the experts, which will only serve to confuse, and not assist, the jury,”

So, Merchan said, I'll tell the jury what the law is.  Well, he didn't.  But he did tell the jury that they don't have to agree on which of the alleged offenses Trump committed for it to be unanimous.  Just so long as each of you picks one, we're good to go.  But the expert, who was going to tell them that NONE of them were against the law, was barred from doing so. 
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #328 on: June 04, 2024, 12:13:37 PM »
I am only well-versed in Bird Law, among other fringe lawyerings. Your post is enlightening & educational.
This is no time to try to be funny. This is what I’m talking about. You’ve seen Snags interjecting into serious conversations with lame ass attempts at humor and now you think you can do it at will.

Snags may be your hero but I would recommend that you pay closer attention to my approach. If you’re paying attention, you may notice that if I am trying a light hearted approach and induce humor into the conversation, that the first rule is for you to actually be funny. That’s crucial and a part that Steve has never been able to comprehend.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #329 on: June 04, 2024, 12:14:59 PM »
How is a Judge basically silencing the expert witness from completely blowing the prosecution's case out of the water, anything other than reversible error?  Brad Smith, an expert on federal campaign finance law, was going to tell the jury that nothing in the way any payments were made, or how they were listed in expenditures, broke any laws whatsoever.  But Merchan wasn't having any of that. His justification?:

“There is no question this would result in a battle of the experts, which will only serve to confuse, and not assist, the jury,”

So, Merchan said, I'll tell the jury what the law is.  Well, he didn't.  But he did tell the jury that they don't have to agree on which of the alleged offenses Trump committed for it to be unanimous.  Just so long as each of you picks one, we're good to go.  But the expert, who was going to tell them that NONE of them were against the law, was barred from doing so.
I bet this was fascinating.
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Kaos

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #330 on: June 04, 2024, 12:18:41 PM »
How miserable are the two of you that you always have to be right?

I don't have to be.  I just am. 

There is a difference.
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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #331 on: June 04, 2024, 12:29:58 PM »
This is no time to try to be funny. This is what I’m talking about. You’ve seen Snags interjecting into serious conversations with lame ass attempts at humor and now you think you can do it at will.

Snags may be your hero but I would recommend that you pay closer attention to my approach. If you’re paying attention, you may notice that if I am trying a light hearted approach and induce humor into the conversation, that the first rule is for you to actually be funny. That’s crucial and a part that Steve has never been able to comprehend.

You best increase those arm circles and 1,2,3 way backs before you come at me, friend!
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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #332 on: June 04, 2024, 12:38:24 PM »
You best increase those arm circles and 1,2,3 way backs before you come at me, friend!

WITH A JAB...  FOLLOWED BY A SLASH...  AAAAAAAATACK!
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #333 on: June 04, 2024, 02:37:10 PM »
You should link it: 
And Elie Honig is a man.
I just want to be on record and point out that I strongly oppose your saying nig on here. Very disappointed. I thought you were bigger than this. I had much higher expectations of you.
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War Damn Six

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #334 on: June 07, 2024, 05:53:32 PM »
What’s a little jury misconduct between friends, huh?
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Snaggletiger

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Re: What would it take?
« Reply #335 on: June 07, 2024, 05:56:36 PM »
What’s a little jury misconduct between friends, huh?

Yo, cuz.  Just lettin' ya' know.  He guilty!
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