Alternative Facts Leaking Into Sports

[wesfau2]

This guy claims that Gus is a great QB developer.  I trust that the esteemed members of this site will give him as much shit as he deserves for this pablum-filled pile of garbage.

http://www.thewareaglereader.com/2017/01/actually-gus-malzahns-quarterback-development-is-good/

[Buzz Killington]

I'm sure leaving out Kahlill and Turtle Moseley was just an honest mistake.

Comment saved.

[Godfather]

That Buzz guy sounds like a dumbass

[AUJarhead]

I asked him on the Twitterz if he could name one QB Gus recruited out of High School who ever played as a College Junior or Senior, and he told me I was cherry picking because Sean White was only a sophomore.

[Snaggletiger]

I asked him on the Twitterz if he could name one QB Gus recruited out of High School who ever played as a College Junior or Senior, and he told me I was cherry picking because Sean White was only a sophomore.

3rd year sophomore.

[Snaggletiger]

I don't disagree with a good bit of it.  The one thing I'm on the same page with most everyone on here is that he's had far more misses than hits.  Plus, to Jarhead's point, Sean White is really the only QB that's developed into anything after coming in as a true freshman.  The negatives are out there for everyone to see.  The positives, even though some had prior experience, are IMO:

Chris Todd:  Malzahn came in and they named Todd the starter.  He set what were at that time, offensive records at AU. Kudos.

Nick Marshall:  The only stat that didn't improve from year one to two was his rushing.  Mostly because he just didn't run it as much.  But his INT/TD ratio coming out of JUCO was scary bad.  The guy was one of the better QB's in the nation by the time he finished.

Sean White:  Last year and this year, he has proven himself to be a damn solid QB when healthy.  Staying off Injured Reserve is his one drawback. 

Cam:  And I'll agree 100% with the author on this one.  Only negative was Gus not realizing what a beast he had until almost midway through the season.  But the dude put up one of the best overall seasons in college history, certainly in all of Auburn history, and won the Heisman. It was Gus' offense he was running to do that.  You gotta' hate long and hard to try and say Gus had nothing to do with that.

Again, I'm not arguing the numerous epic fails at QB under CGM at Auburn.  Again, let me qualify that by saying "At Auburn".  You can't diss his two QB's at Tulsa or Ryan Aplin's year at Arky State.  I'd put Trotter, Mosely and Kadril in the piss poor evaluation category.  They weren't ready and never would have been.  I'd say Jeremy Johnson is some A-1, top shelf development fail.           

[jmar]

3rd year sophomore.

Chris Todd came to Auburn from Texas Tech with a bum shoulder. Surgery was imminent, development was not an option. Whew!
We dodged a bullet on that one.

[AUChizad]

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┻┳| •.•)  He's right.
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[AUChizad]

I asked him on the Twitterz if he could name one QB Gus recruited out of High School who ever played as a College Junior or Senior, and he told me I was cherry picking because Sean White was only a sophomore.

He said he "developed" into a better QB than he was recruited to be and the only reason he won't be playing past his sophomore year (hopefully), is because Gus recruited (and/or developed) even better QBs to replace him.

Again, he's right.

[wesfau2]

He said he "developed" into a better QB than he was recruited to be

What in the blue fuck does that mean?  Don't you recruit them all and groom them to be...hopefully...great?

The fact stands that no QB under the Gushlee tutelage was demonstrably better for their teaching.  All success has been had with QBs trained elsewhere.

[djsimp]

All I can say is that Auburn has had its day or 3 with some underachieving QBs. I, like all of you, am sick and damn tired of that shit. So, with that said, we now have Stidham and Barrett who will be in the mix next year with White. There are no more freakn excuses to be had. NONE! Also, keep in mind, next year will be when Joey Gatewood will sign. If Gus/Chip can't do anything with one of those three then there is no hope with this staff.

[wesfau2]

All I can say is that Auburn has had its day or 3 with some underachieving QBs. I, like all of you, am sick and damn tired of that shit. So, with that said, we now have Stidham and Barrett who will be in the mix next year with White. There are no more freakn excuses to be had. NONE! Also, keep in mind, next year will be when Joey Gatewood will sign. If Gus/Chip can't do anything with one of those three then there is no hope with this staff.

Gatewood has backed off his "all auburn all the time" tweeting.  Been announcing new offers (UGA and Texas). 

Not saying we won't get him, but he's heretofore not tweeted about ANY other schools.  The Lashlee departure put us behind the eight ball with him, I think.

[Snaggletiger]

What in the blue fuck does that mean?  Don't you recruit them all and groom them to be...hopefully...great?

The fact stands that no QB under the Gushlee tutelage was demonstrably better for their teaching.  All success has been had with QBs trained elsewhere.

Still disagree.  One of the reasons is pretty simple.  He's made a habit out of recruiting JUCO quarterbacks.  More often than not you're going to play the more experienced guy. 

Would you agree that Sean White, when healthy, was one of the most efficient QB's in the nation?  Stats say he was.  You can't attribute that to anyone other than Gushlee.  I'd say that's pretty damn good.

But let's look at those QB's that were "trained" by someone else. 

Chris Todd threw a grand total of 35 passes in mop up duty at TT.  In 2008 at Auburn, he was a 55% passer for 903 yards with 5 TD's and 6 INT's.  Lost his job to Kodi Burns.  Under Gus, he started all 13 games, passed 2,612 yards at a 61% clip with 22 TD's and only 6 picks.  Why doesn't Gus get the credit for development and the huge improvement.  I'll wait on all the excuses from the board.  Oh wait.  Todd had a gimp arm so scratch everything Gus did.

Nick Marshall.  In Garden City, he was a 57% passer and led the nation in interceptions with an astounding 20.  I believe they only played 8 games.  Also sacked 15 times.  Great "training".  He comes to Auburn.  The SEC West, mind you.  And his line went:

2013:  59.4% 1,976 yds  14/6  143,2 passer rating.  1,000 yard+ rusher

2014:  61%  2,532 yds  20/7  151.1 passer rating

Again, about 250 less rushing yards in 14' with 25 less attempts.  But admittedly, working off a guy like Tre before the brain damage probably opened things up a bit more.

Cammy Cam:  Not gonna' lie.  Nice stats at Blinn.  61% passer.  22/5 with 16 rushing TD's.  But again, he goes to the pathetic SEC West and on 56 less attempts than at Blinn, he was a 66.1% passer.  30/7 with 20 rushing TD's.  National Championship and Heisman Trophy winner in Gus' system.   

Look, I realize Gus may be an 8-5 coach at this level.  That may be it.  Maybe this year, he finds the formula by stepping away completely and letting his guys coach.  That might be what gets him over the hump.  Maybe not. I don't think there's a soul out there that that doesn't think this year is truly make or break. 

But while I would never question the fact that he's had several key QB's he's recruited say "Pop go da weasel", has anyone ever thought that maybe recruiting JUCO guys or transfers with experience IS his M.O.?  Sean White proved he can do it from scratch.  But he's also proven he likes to plug in guys with experience.  And lastly, he's proven without a doubt he can take every one of those guys, whether their prior "training" was shit or not, and have them significantly improve in the SEC West.

I'll hang up and lissen for all the excuses as to why those stats above mean nothing.

[wesfau2]

With Tre/CAP/KPett ripping off 5 ypc at a minimum, all the QBs can shine.  Shit, I could.

When there is no run game, Gus's QBs cannot carry the water.

They are not coached well.

[Snaggletiger]

With Tre/CAP/KPett ripping off 5 ypc at a minimum, all the QBs can shine.  Shit, I could.

When there is no run game, Gus's QBs cannot carry the water.

They are not coached well.

No you couldn't.  Let's not get cra cra. And you have no proof that Todd, Cam, Nick 1, Nick 2 or even Sean would not have been able to carry the team if their running game shut down. You can't assume they wouldn't.  The only reason our O shut down this year, at times, was because White was injured twice.  Jack Gus up for no back up. 

JJ is on Gus.  Bad coaching. Head case.  Whatever.  He just plain lost it and Gus never could pull him out of it.  But once Sean got some reps last year, he was slinging it around pretty damn good until he got hurt.  Take away 8-10 drops against Arky and he might go for 400.         

Your statement might apply to virtually every QB in the game whose coach has a run first offense.  Unless you are a 5-wide, sling it around offense, you'd better be Deshaun Watson if your running game gets shut down. Very few of those.  But, I'm sure Watson has bought Mr. Gallman a few steak dinners the last couple of years.

[Kaos]

What in the blue fuck does that mean?  Don't you recruit them all and groom them to be...hopefully...great?

The fact stands that no QB under the Gushlee tutelage was demonstrably better for their teaching.  All success has been had with QBs trained elsewhere.

Agree entirely.   

Cam is/was one of the single greatest talents in college football history.  Yes, the Malzahn playcalling at that time was inspired.  It was inspired with Nick Marshall running it too. 

I was never really in the "he has to have a certain kind of QB" camp, but the more I think about it the more I fall into that line of thinking.  Without the threat of an explosive QB run to freeze the defense, his playcalling is befuddling, there's no rhythm, it becomes a clown show. 

Talent evaluation is also a major, major, major concern.  How in the flaming hell do we end up with Trotter and Turtle battling to the last day? Why did we ever pull Trotter in the first place? How many seasons have we seen where he cannot decide on a starter?  And when he does, it only lasts until he panics. 

He hasn't developed a true (conventional) quarterback ever at Auburn. 

[jmar]

JR and I had a slight disagreement when it came down to Cam and the playbook. LSS,  it was my contention that Gus really couldn't or didn't need to interfere much with the guy.

The situation was similar with Nick as far as the read option goes although his accuracy as a passer was always in question though he benefitted greatly by having a badassed receiver in Duke running the hashes and to a somewhat lesser degree, Sammy.

But other than those three seasons with JUCOs I say the QB coaching has been miserably bad, in a few cases (Frazier/Moseley) it even looked non-existent.

To me Jeremy Johnson was plain and simply failed by Gushlee. Never improved.
People in the know recognize Auburn's passing game as simple...a primary receiver and if that isn't there you are shit out of luck.

It seemed evident to me that Gushlee wanted badly for JFIII to come in like Nick and take the position from JJ and Sean only he was extremely raw and obviously scared at times.

I still have to pull for White.
The guy has shown more guts than anything we have had outside of Cam and Nick during Gus' tenure. But I also realize we are limiting ourselves if the Stidham kid is the baller that they say he is.

Just hoping Lindsey can put all the elements together to have it purring again...and keep it that way. Woody Barrett might be the best of both worlds but how could we know?

[Kaos]

Would you agree that Sean White, when healthy, was one of the most efficient QB's in the nation?  No.  He's a gutsy kid, but he's not even average at the passing game. 
Stats say he was.  You can't attribute that to anyone other than Gushlee.  I'd say that's pretty damn good.
Stats say a lot of things. 

But let's look at those QB's that were "trained" by someone else. 

Chris Todd threw a grand total of 35 passes in mop up duty at TT.  In 2008 at Auburn, he was a 55% passer for 903 yards with 5 TD's and 6 INT's.  Lost his job to Kodi Burns.  Under Gus, he started all 13 games, passed 2,612 yards at a 61% clip with 22 TD's and only 6 picks.  Why doesn't Gus get the credit for development and the huge improvement.  I'll wait on all the excuses from the board.  Oh wait.  Todd had a gimp arm so scratch everything Gus did.
It was a combination.  Todd was healthier and it was Gus' first year in the position.  I'm also of the opinion that he was a better position coach/coordinator than he is a head coach. 

Nick Marshall.  In Garden City, he was a 57% passer and led the nation in interceptions with an astounding 20.  I believe they only played 8 games.  Also sacked 15 times.  Great "training".  He comes to Auburn.  The SEC West, mind you.  And his line went:

2013:  59.4% 1,976 yds  14/6  143,2 passer rating.  1,000 yard+ rusher

2014:  61%  2,532 yds  20/7  151.1 passer rating

Again, about 250 less rushing yards in 14' with 25 less attempts.  But admittedly, working off a guy like Tre before the brain damage probably opened things up a bit more.
Lightning in a bottle.  Marshall was a runner who threw the occasional pass.  All of us -- even you I think -- complained constantly about his inability to drop back and work through progressions, his mechanics, his footwork, his decision making.  You know, all the things that make a quarterback a complete quarterback.  How many 'quarterbacks' could make the NFL at a completely different position?

Cammy Cam:  Not gonna' lie.  Nice stats at Blinn.  61% passer.  22/5 with 16 rushing TD's.  But again, he goes to the pathetic SEC West and on 56 less attempts than at Blinn, he was a 66.1% passer.  30/7 with 20 rushing TD's.  National Championship and Heisman Trophy winner in Gus' system.   Generational type talent.  Was a good fit with what Gus likes to do.  But once again, I think Gus is a better assistant coach than head coach. 

Look, I realize Gus may be an 8-5 coach at this level.  That may be it.  Maybe this year, he finds the formula by stepping away completely and letting his guys coach.  That might be what gets him over the hump.  Maybe not. I don't think there's a soul out there that that doesn't think this year is truly make or break. 

But while I would never question the fact that he's had several key QB's he's recruited say "Pop go da weasel", has anyone ever thought that maybe recruiting JUCO guys or transfers with experience IS his M.O.?  Sean White proved he can do it from scratch.  But he's also proven he likes to plug in guys with experience.  And lastly, he's proven without a doubt he can take every one of those guys, whether their prior "training" was shit or not, and have them significantly improve in the SEC West.

I'll hang up and lissen for all the excuses as to why those stats above mean nothing.

I like Sean White.  I think he's got a lot of moxie.  But if you're making a list of the QBs in the SEC how far down the list is he?  How many would you trade him for?  Yes... he's "efficient."  But does he really scare anybody?   I'd take Nobrow Dobbs, Eason, Etling, Fitzgerald, Knight and probably Allen and expect better results.  The cast around Sean was better than any of those QBs had with the exception of probably Etling. 

All I'm saying is despite what the WER contends, I'm not seeing top QB talent come to Auburn and flourish.  The success of Cam and Nick is easily overshadowed by the dumpster fires that were Johnson, Wallace,Frazier, Trotter, Mosely, and so forth. 

When the Malzahn QB isn't working, it's some of the most foul shit that's ever been on a football field.  It's dysfunctional beyond anything I've ever seen at any level (except maybe pee wee).  It's a degree of ineptness that is mind-boggling.  It's not even adequate.  I don't see that anywhere else.  And that's why it's such a problem/concern.

[CCTAU]

Todd came in ready to play mentally. He made the right decisions, but his arm could not make the throws. The next season he was healthy. I'm not sure that had a lot to do with Gus. Todd was the football equivalent of a gym rat. He was that way BEFORE he got to AU.

[wesfau2]

Rack him!