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Auburn Basketball 2016-2017

Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #160 on: December 20, 2016, 09:56:44 AM »
Either way, Dunans told those refs to suck it while he was riding on his teammates' shoulders after making the game winner.

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AUChizad

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #161 on: December 20, 2016, 12:05:25 PM »
well no shit...
I'm (wiki is) saying you're right here:

This. But this is assuming that the rule states that if the ball is tipped, there is no goal tending even after it hits the backboard. I have no idea what the rule is...

Snag's assumption is incorrect. It's goaltending. Because it hit the backboard and was above the rim when he rebounded it. The tip is inconsequential.

Maybe I should have bolded the last sentence? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goaltending
Quote
In basketball, goaltending is the violation of interfering with the ball while it's on its way to the basket and it is (a) in a downward flight, (b) entirely above the rim and has the possibility of entering the basket, and (c) not touching the rim. In NCAA basketball, WNBA and NBA basketball, goaltending is also called if the ball has already touched the backboard while being above the height of the rim in its flight, regardless of whether it being in an upward or downward flight or whether it is directly above the rim.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #162 on: December 20, 2016, 03:29:33 PM »
I'm (wiki is) saying you're right here:

Snag's assumption is incorrect. It's goaltending. Because it hit the backboard and was above the rim when he rebounded it. The tip is inconsequential.

Maybe I should have bolded the last sentence? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Still doesn't specifically address the question at hand.  That says nothing about the tip being inconsequential. Let me go ahead and say that my personal opinion is that the tip means nothing and it would still be goal tending.  Here's why.  Because the rule says nothing about how the ball got up there in the first place.  It doesn't say the offensive player has to be the one that shot it.  It could be players fighting for the rebound and the defensive player tips it up off the backboard above the rim.  It could even be a player getting confused and shooting at the wrong goal.   

Never even seen this issue come up until Pearl and the Auburn players were immediately lobbying for the review, so I'd really like to know the answer. 

 

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AUChizad

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #163 on: December 20, 2016, 09:26:11 PM »
Still doesn't specifically address the question at hand.  That says nothing about the tip being inconsequential. Let me go ahead and say that my personal opinion is that the tip means nothing and it would still be goal tending.  Here's why.  Because the rule says nothing about how the ball got up there in the first place.  It doesn't say the offensive player has to be the one that shot it.  It could be players fighting for the rebound and the defensive player tips it up off the backboard above the rim.  It could even be a player getting confused and shooting at the wrong goal.   

Never even seen this issue come up until Pearl and the Auburn players were immediately lobbying for the review, so I'd really like to know the answer.
It does though. Because the rest of what I bolded.

There are two ways to get called for goal tending.
1) "Interfering with the ball while it's on its way to the basket and it is (a) in a downward flight, (b) entirely above the rim and has the possibility of entering the basket, and (c) not touching the rim"

2)"goaltending is also called if the ball has already touched the backboard while being above the height of the rim in its flight, regardless of whether it being in an upward or downward flight or whether it is directly above the rim."

You're stuck on 1, or think 2 is negated if 1 is negated, I guess?

If in fact an Auburn defender tipped the ball as it was "in an upward flight" from the Mercer player's shot, and then Dunans caught it on the way back down, while still above the rim near the goal, then yes, the tip matters and it is not goaltending.

But the Auburn defender (supposedly) tipped the ball as it was "in an upward flight" from the Mercer players shot and then it hit the backboard. At this point reason 1 to get called for goaltending is of no consequence. Move on past that. We're on to reason #2. An entirely separate action. It bounced off the backboard and was still above the rim when he grabbed it. That is goaltending. It is completely independent of everything that took place before the ball hit the backboard.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 09:28:44 PM by AUChizad »
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #164 on: December 20, 2016, 11:07:42 PM »
It does though. Because the rest of what I bolded.

There are two ways to get called for goal tending.
1) "Interfering with the ball while it's on its way to the basket and it is (a) in a downward flight, (b) entirely above the rim and has the possibility of entering the basket, and (c) not touching the rim"

2)"goaltending is also called if the ball has already touched the backboard while being above the height of the rim in its flight, regardless of whether it being in an upward or downward flight or whether it is directly above the rim."

You're stuck on 1, or think 2 is negated if 1 is negated, I guess?

If in fact an Auburn defender tipped the ball as it was "in an upward flight" from the Mercer player's shot, and then Dunans caught it on the way back down, while still above the rim near the goal, then yes, the tip matters and it is not goaltending.

But the Auburn defender (supposedly) tipped the ball as it was "in an upward flight" from the Mercer players shot and then it hit the backboard. At this point reason 1 to get called for goaltending is of no consequence. Move on past that. We're on to reason #2. An entirely separate action. It bounced off the backboard and was still above the rim when he grabbed it. That is goaltending. It is completely independent of everything that took place before the ball hit the backboard.

No.  I said I believe it IS goaltending. 
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #165 on: December 20, 2016, 11:11:40 PM »
No.  I said I believe it IS goaltending.
Yeah. Sure you did.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #166 on: December 20, 2016, 11:37:01 PM »
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AUChizad

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #167 on: December 21, 2016, 09:21:44 AM »
No.  I said I believe it IS goaltending.
I'm just sayin', the "Wiki Webster" explained why it's not, as I read it. That there are two separate things that constitute goaltending and people are conflating the two by even bringing "the tip" into discussion.

And when you say:
That says nothing about the tip being inconsequential.

You don't seem to be understanding that the tip would only be a factor if goaltending was called because of #1, but it was called in this case because of #2, where it is not a factor.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #168 on: December 21, 2016, 09:24:24 AM »
Big game tonight against the Schooner
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #169 on: December 21, 2016, 09:49:58 AM »
I'm just sayin', the "Wiki Webster" explained why it's not, as I read it. That there are two separate things that constitute goaltending and people are conflating the two by even bringing "the tip" into discussion.

And when you say:
You don't seem to be understanding that the tip would only be a factor if goaltending was called because of #1, but it was called in this case because of #2, where it is not a factor.

You don't seem to be understanding that the rule says nothing at all about a defender tipping, blocking, touching or otherwise caressing balls prior to the "goaltend". Again, I personally think it's goaltending, ear-regardless. I just want to know why Pearl and the player who allegedly caressed said ball before the post backboard touching, were arguing that the caress negates the goal tend. And why the announcers were replaying it and asking if the first guy touched it before Dunans did?  They saw one replay that looked like the first guy didn't touch and specifically said since there was no touch, it was clearly goaltending.     Guess they didn't read the wikis.  #dropsmic

Anyway, silly debate over muchonuthin. 
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #170 on: December 21, 2016, 09:51:49 AM »
Big game tonight against the Schooner

You are correct, sir.  Will pour up a warm glass of Christmas cheer and settle in for the beat down.
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dallaswareagle

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #171 on: December 21, 2016, 10:01:36 AM »
Big game tonight against the Schooner

I hope there is no goaltending.
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #172 on: December 21, 2016, 10:41:34 AM »
I hope there is no goaltending.

It's not if you touch tips.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #173 on: December 21, 2016, 10:45:25 AM »
I just wish somebody here knew the rules of the game.
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Now I may be an idiot, but there is one thing I am not, sir, and that, sir, is an idiot.

Snaggletiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #174 on: December 21, 2016, 10:49:53 AM »
I just wish somebody here knew the rules of the game.

I know the rules of Fight Club.
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #175 on: December 21, 2016, 11:02:59 AM »
I know the rules of Fight Club.
You don't know the first rule
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Saniflush

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #176 on: December 21, 2016, 12:26:15 PM »
The tip is inconsequential.

This is never the case
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Buzz Killington

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #177 on: December 21, 2016, 01:17:02 PM »
Let's play a game called just the tip
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Pell City Tiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #178 on: December 21, 2016, 09:06:32 PM »
Auburn is up 34-22 at the half.
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Pell City Tiger

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Re: Auburn Basketball 2016-2017
« Reply #179 on: December 21, 2016, 10:00:50 PM »
60-55 Auburn with just over 4 minutes to go.
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