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Better Call Saul

GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #140 on: April 27, 2022, 10:07:45 AM »
I agree that it wouldn't hurt to do Breaking Bad first.  Otherwise you might not get things like Krazy-8 or even the "working in a Cinnabon in Oklahoma" reference that kicks it all off. 

It IS a prequel, yes. But it has so many callbacks --- call forwards? --- to Breaking Bad that it would be a shame to miss all of that context. 

It also begins before Breaking Bad, but allegedly ends in a world after Bad was over.  So in that way, it's almost as much a bookend as a prequel or sequel.  If it does, that is. 

One thought.... if Breaking Bad hadn't existed or if you watched Saul first and then decided to follow with Breaking Bad would it have the same impact?  If Bad hadn't existed, I don't know that Saul gets six seasons.  I kind of think the audience for it might have been bigger had it been first, though.  It's a really well-written show, solid acting, solid story.  The way it's shot is really fantastic.  The camera angles, the visuals.  Even simple, throwaway shots like looking up at a pissed off Hector from beneath the pool water.  It carries that same sense of framing and style from Breaking Bad that was so fantastic but it's (in my opinion) even better. 

Another thought.  It's 'Better Call Saul' but it's really much more than that. 

It's Gus Fring's story.
It's Mike's story.
It's Krazy-8's story.
It's Hector Salamanca's story.
It's Tuco's story.
It's Saul's story.
All of them were contributors to Breaking Bad

But it's also
Chuck's story.
Kim's story.
Howard's story.
Lalo's story.
Nacho's story.

In the time it has, in each episode, it weaves components of all those vastly different but intertwined stories into a single cohesive narrative. 

I don't mind admitting when I was wrong and I was.  It's a fucking great show.

So I kicked this off this week.....halfway through season 1 now but so far, I'm pleased with it. And yes, if you haven't seen BB first, you will miss a lot of the refer backs and small nuances. Its a prequel designed and produced AFTER the original so it makes perfect sense in how Gilligan does that. One thing I've noticed is the movement, photography, camera angles, imagery.....its grade A just like BB. Im only 10% of the way through this whole thing and I can already say this (along with BB) will cement Vince Gilligan as legendary status for a long time. Just a marvelous piece of work - the whole BB ARC.
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CCTAU

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #141 on: April 27, 2022, 11:28:06 AM »
When is this Saul guy gonna die...
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #142 on: April 27, 2022, 03:36:13 PM »
When is this Saul guy gonna die...

He doesn't.

He simply becomes Paul later on.
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #143 on: April 28, 2022, 04:35:58 PM »
He doesn't.

He simply becomes Paul later on.

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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #144 on: May 24, 2022, 09:58:01 AM »
Outstanding mid-season finale last night.
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wesfau2

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #145 on: May 24, 2022, 11:18:39 AM »
The setup on Howard was just fucking exquisite.

Redirected the PI, staged the cash withdrawal and payoff, got the eye dilating substance on the photos...

Just fucking genius.

The way Howard went from smug, to manic, to raving paranoid lunatic...to spoiler: dead

Then the fucking candle flickering...

Fuck is it July 11 yet?
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You can keep a wooden stake in your trunk
On the off-chance that the fairy tales ain't bunk
And Imma keep a bottle of that funk
To get motel parking lot, balcony crunk.

Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #146 on: May 24, 2022, 11:33:57 AM »
The setup on Howard was just fucking exquisite.

Redirected the PI, staged the cash withdrawal and payoff, got the eye dilating substance on the photos...

Just fucking genius.

The way Howard went from smug, to manic, to raving paranoid lunatic...to spoiler: dead

Then the fucking candle flickering...

Fuck is it July 11 yet?

Also wondering about the way Kim stares at the business card in the black book, and if I should have hope that maybe she survives the season. 
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #147 on: May 24, 2022, 11:55:06 AM »
The setup on Howard was just fucking exquisite.

Redirected the PI, staged the cash withdrawal and payoff, got the eye dilating substance on the photos...

Just fucking genius.

The way Howard went from smug, to manic, to raving paranoid lunatic...to spoiler: dead

Then the fucking candle flickering...

Fuck is it July 11 yet?

The big takedown of Howard was kind of a letdown.  Guess I expected more crash and burn.  D-Day should have been epic as much time was spent building it up.  But the complexity and depth of the plot was outstanding.  Anticipating his every move and playing one step ahead. 

Part of me was bothered by it though.  Why?  Why Howard?  He championed Kim.  He defended Jimmy. Yeah he deferred to Chuck but he tried to fix it.   Wanted to bring Saul into the firm as soon as Chuck’s overbearing influence was gone.  Why spend the time and effort to break a guy who actually appreciated you for who you are?

As it wore on I felt sorry for Howard.  Overshadowed by pretentious asshole Chuck.  Trapped between his (deserved) loyalty to that smug prick Chuck and his admiration for the recklessness and resilience of James.  Always caught in the hedges between them, always forced to side with the interests of the firm. But he tried to make it right.  Other than banishing Kim to the basement for betraying him - which she kind of deserved - I never really faulted his actions.

Outstanding character development by the writers to take what could easily be a one-note throwaway character and turn him into a fully realized and sympathetic three dimensional player. More than anything else the humanization of Howard illustrates the brilliance of the writers and producers of this show.  That I came to care as much of more about Howard’s fate and his chances to disrupt the plot and win the day is evidence of that mastery.   

I agreed with everything he said in his apartment speech.  They are soulless. They are sociopaths.   They are toxic together. Even in defeat he took it like a man. No fury.  No vows of vengeance.   “You won.  But why? Help me understand what I did to deserve this from you…”

Made Jimmy and Kim look petty.  He didn’t deserve their wrath. They were the bad guys in that scenario.  I didn’t want them to win.   
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GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #148 on: May 24, 2022, 01:49:56 PM »
I was wrong about everything.  This is a great show and it’s a real shame it never found an audience. 

Kim is languidly hot in a way I should have realized.

This is one of the better shows of all time.
It’s definitely the best prequel. It’s brilliant in the way it hooks all the tiny pieces together. I hate to see it end.

Comparing it to breaking bad was an injustice. 

It may actually hold up better than BB.

I don’t like odenkirk’s politics but he is fantastic in this role. 

I will be wearing my American Samoa Law School T-shirt when I watch the return.

I am at Episode 2 of Season 6 now.....my thoughts ON YOUR THOUGHTS:

I was wrong about everything.  This is a great show and it’s a real shame it never found an audience. - Couldn't agree more. Its fantastic. But I saw it in binge mode. Not the way Wes did. I don't know if I would have felt the same if I had to see all of that over an 8 year period. I saw it all in 3-4 weeks. But its great nonetheless.

Kim is languidly hot in a way I should have realized. - Lord yes. I love her.

This is one of the better shows of all time. - YES YES and YES.
It’s definitely the best prequel. It’s brilliant in the way it hooks all the tiny pieces together. I hate to see it end. Also Yes.

Comparing it to breaking bad was an injustice.  - They are comparable to me. Both great. But as you watch this one and see the whole arc, its very apparent that BB and Walt were just ONE PART of this whole thing. You could argue that Jimmy/Saul is bigger to the overall arc.

It may actually hold up better than BB. - We will see, but I won't argue that at all.

I don’t like odenkirk’s politics but he is fantastic in this role. - He and Cranston were both late bloomers like Gandolfini - just needed the perfect storm of character and writing with a terrific director like VG. Credit where due - his politics aside - he is pretty awesome as Jimmy/Saul.

I will be wearing my American Samoa Law School T-shirt when I watch the return. - Not going that far. You weirdo.
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GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #149 on: August 09, 2022, 10:45:22 AM »
Last episode in 6 days. You fuqqerz are falling down on the job.

Before last night, the last few episodes were a slow burn much like seasons 3 and 4 of BB. Much was focused on Gene and the "future" arc post BB. Last night did some of the same as far as "Gene" and post BB BUT......I wouldn't call it a slow burn. Things are starting to head downhill rapidly. I would love to try to predict the series finale next Monday but I would probably be wrong. I have a few ideas though.

Not going to give away any spoilers for those that have not seen it but.....(this isn't a spoiler) - I find it intriguing that they have made Carol Burnett a huge linchpin in these last 6 episodes. Casting her 90 year old self was completely out of left field and I kind of like it. She can still be funny and effective.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 10:49:30 AM by GH2001 »
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #150 on: August 12, 2022, 04:41:41 PM »
Yep yep yep. 

I vomited.
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #151 on: August 12, 2022, 08:14:35 PM »
Yep yep yep. 

I vomited.

Purposely to totally Illustrate her downfall into a sad boring life.
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #152 on: August 13, 2022, 09:39:26 AM »
Purposely to totally Illustrate her downfall into a sad boring life.

Whatever the purpose it ruined the character.  I can’t bleach that out of my mind. 
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #153 on: August 13, 2022, 01:38:15 PM »
Whatever the purpose it ruined the character.  I can’t bleach that out of my mind.

Yep….

X3
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #154 on: August 13, 2022, 04:09:52 PM »
Breaking Bad was an almost perfect ending.  I still can’t hear Baby Blue without getting a little misty for what we lost. 

Lost in that, though, is all of Walt’s exposed ugliness before that final semi-redemption. 

In a lot of ways the end runs are very similar in arc. 

If you remember back to Bad, Walt had gradually morphed from a guy who wrestled with his conscience into a despicable human being with no thought other than his own needs and wants.

He left Jane to die and didn’t regret it.
He killed Mike.
He wanted Jesse dead.
He killed Gus. 
He was complicit in killing Hank and Gomez.

Every single person who tried to help him in his quest was destroyed by their association with him. 

There was a time we all related to and sympathized with Walter.  I think even the show’s creators were surprised that we stuck with him even as his acts of destruction grew more vile and self centered.

Saul has gone the same way.  From a gregarious, fun character to a spiteful, petty criminal with little to no moral compass. 

I don’t know if Saul can stick the landing like Walter did, but I hope there’s some final small redemption for a guy who fought stacked odds from the day he was born. 

I really hate the end of Kim’s thread (if that was it).  It’s kind of funny.  She made him want to be a better man than he was, but she wasn’t interested in that.  She’s the one who pushed him into the Hoaward scam - for no real reason.  And when it blew up? She left him adrift.  I’m beginning to wonder if she wasn’t the villain all along. 
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GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #155 on: August 14, 2022, 08:47:11 AM »
Not sure it was for no reason. Remember what Howard did to her at the firm. And with complete elitism and smugness. Actions have consequences and you have to be careful who you mess with.
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Kaos

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #156 on: August 16, 2022, 09:36:44 AM »
Saul Over

Have to admit, I was confused at first at the end.  It didn't feel epic and definitive like the 'Baby Blue' scene did to conclude Breaking Bad.  But I've watched it twice now. I've read interviews with Saul and Kim.  I've read the review by Alan Sepinwall, one of the few writers/reviewers I respect.

I've come to appreciate it as the only possible ending there could have been to give Saul any redemptive arc whatsoever. 

It was well crafted and killed off the Saul Goodman we knew.  The flashback sequences all set the stage for the self realization and courtroom catharsis that effectively killed the alter ego inside Jimmy.  Mike asking if it was all about money, no regrets.  Walter telling him "you were always like this" with disdain (not admiration). Chuck telling him it was never too late to change paths (although Chuck's message was delivered with misguided arrogance).  Chuck picking up The Time Machine was a blatant "tell" at the end of that scene, by the way.  Blatant foreshadowing that it took me a while to get.  The whole "if you could go back" was the driving force of this finale. 

My first take, that he threw himself on a grenade as an act of love for Kim, to save her from the potential litigation was wrong.  Trashing his seven-year deal didn't give her that buffer -- she'd already signed a confession. 

What that was about was for the first time in his life....honesty.  Not figuring out some shady way to get out of it or escape accountability for his actions.  It was a man traveling back in time and reclaiming his identity, whatever the cost.

Stopping at just taking credit for his part in Walter's (was it only 16 months?!?) empire building wasn't enough to salvage that. There was still an element of hubris there. He had to go a step further and unburden himself for driving Chuck to suicide.  Even though that wasn't criminal and had no bearing on his active case, it was the final step in shrugging off the technicolor Saul suit and becoming James McGill again -- at least in his mind. 

On the bus he realized that despite his redemptive confession, who he was would always be a part of him.  It just no longer had to rule. 

I give the writers credit.  They pay attention to the tiny details.  Apparently The Time Machine showed up in several episodes across the series span.  The final prison cigarette scene was a near mirror image of a scene outside HHM in episode 1.  These guys are masters at that. 

They didn't give us explosions or literal death.   They gave us the death of a character and after two viewings and a night to sleep on it, I think that was enough. 

Jimmy goes on.  Kim goes on.  Maybe there's a "beginnings of Kim" series somewhere.  Maybe there's a "Saul gets out at age 90" sequel.

Whatever there is -- if there ever is -- I'd watch it. 

Maybe they didn't "stick the landing"  like some might have wanted, but as endings go I think it was appropriate and done better than most. 

When you think about how so many great series fucked a flattened football at the end -- Dexter and Game of Thrones come immediately to mind -- this quiet, melancholy end to a chaotic character's life doesn't seem that bad.  It kind of left me empty and confused/disappointed at first.  But after a little bit of reflection, my admiration has grown. I don't think anything will ever trump Bad's ending for me but this was about as good as they could have done. 

*Final thought. 
Marie Schrader just DOES it for me. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 09:48:47 AM by Kaos »
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If you want free cheese, look in a mousetrap.

GH2001

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #157 on: August 16, 2022, 01:06:57 PM »
Agree on all of that K. At first I was disappointed. I didn’t know what I had just seen. It went downhill so fast. So much happened in a short time. I needed time to process it. Now that I have I like it much better. It was brilliant. Gould and gilligan are so good at this. A rarity in Hollywood now. Kudos to them for this last decade or so journey with Jimmy and Walt. It has to be the greatest story arc in tv history.
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chinook

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #158 on: September 06, 2022, 02:57:22 PM »
The second episode was great I think it's going to be a great show.

review that we didn't really want but will be getting anyway?
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chinook

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Re: Better Call Saul
« Reply #159 on: September 06, 2022, 11:55:43 PM »
watched the entire series twice.  overall the show was great at times, good at times and a snooze fest at times.  in the world of binge watch series ...it ranks somewhere between 15th and 25th. 

the second half of the last season was a major letdown...i enjoyed the internal struggle of am "I Jimmy" or am " I Saul" though.  in the end it was a love story.

as far as Kim...big no. the smoking kills it for me.   
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