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I have some Obamacare Questions

GH2001

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2014, 11:32:12 AM »
Still most limey to have a cell phone, cable T.V, smoke cigs,  ETC that could be dropped in order to afford coverage.  A person in that situation really only needs catastrophic coverage which up until Obamacare was very cheap.

That is correct. I had it once. In fact id be fine with having it again only. But now I am mandated to buy what the government deems correct because they know what's best for me.

Chad, if something you believe is inherently wrong exists (and I am with you there), why would you ever root for it to be successful?

I want bad things to go away. I don't want them to grow and thrive. They're like a cancer that does no good. Why would you not want something like that to die? I couldn't imagine anyone saying they hope criminals keep on doing bad things or Stalin or Lenin keep starving people and killing millions. And no I'm not comparing those guys to anyone. It's the premise of having something inherently bad before you.


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AUChizad

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2014, 11:45:12 AM »
It has never been about affordable health care for people that truly can not afford it.  Those people get put on medicaid.

It's about GIVING health care to the lower middle class and middle class that because of bad decisions, can not afford health care.
This is not really true. It's more about getting healthcare to people who were previously denied due to preexisting conditions, etc. That, and lowering the premiums to make healthcare more affordable to everyone.

Again, that was the stated goal. Not necessarily how it turned out.

Also, you're making a lot of assumptions about the spending habits of the people who the ACA was aiming to benefit. I would posit that there are plenty of people who genuinely can't afford their premiums whether they had a Netflix account or not, as well as people who couldn't get coverage due to preexisting conditions whether they were on food stamps or were Warren Buffett.

Granted, there probably are people who just don't prioritize health care coverage over some of those luxury items you mentioned. Which is the #1 reason I generally oppose the ACA. Those people shouldn't have to buy something they don't want. Now those people are probably just paying the penalties, as VV alluded to.
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AUTiger1

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2014, 11:46:32 AM »
That is correct. I had it once. In fact id be fine with having it again only. But now I am mandated to buy what the government deems correct because they know what's best for me.

Chad, if something you believe is inherently wrong exists (and I am with you there), why would you ever root for it to be successful?

I want bad things to go away. I don't want them to grow and thrive. They're like a cancer that does no good. Why would you not want something like that to die? I couldn't imagine anyone saying they hope criminals keep on doing bad things or Stalin or Lenin keep starving people and killing millions. And no I'm not comparing those guys to anyone. It's the premise of having something inherently bad before you.

I think what he wants is people with PEC's to be able to get affordable coverage and those who truly can't afford coverage to be able to have it.  I am with him, but I don't see where this is happening with Obamacare. 
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wesfau2

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2014, 11:54:24 AM »
Not sure how I got tagged as the ACA expert/advocate.

My thoughts:  Reform of the system was/is needed.  This is a first step...it will not be the last (program could be expanded or it could be reduced).  The roll-out was poorly executed. 

That's about all I know at this point, but everyone should continue the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the meantime.
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AUChizad

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2014, 11:55:59 AM »
That is correct. I had it once. In fact id be fine with having it again only. But now I am mandated to buy what the government deems correct because they know what's best for me.

Chad, if something you believe is inherently wrong exists (and I am with you there), why would you ever root for it to be successful?

I want bad things to go away. I don't want them to grow and thrive. They're like a cancer that does no good. Why would you not want something like that to die? I couldn't imagine anyone saying they hope criminals keep on doing bad things or Stalin or Lenin keep starving people and killing millions. And no I'm not comparing those guys to anyone. It's the premise of having something inherently bad before you.
Because I'm ok with being wrong.

The comparisons you are trying to make are a far cry from getting health care to everyone who wants it. Stalin and Lenin starving & killing millions is clearly unjustifiably bad.

If you can step away from the partisan rhetoric enough to realize that Democrats aren't inherently evil and are in reality taking an approach that they sincerely believe is best for everyone, whether I philosophically agree or not, that is a much healthier way to have civil discourse.

I don't want the people or the economy to suffer to prove I'm right. I don't want to see the country burn because I don't agree with every decision the government is making. If the benefits of the ACA truly turned out to outweigh its problems, then we're all better off. Great. I was wrong. I guess the disconnect is some of you think that any victory for president-you-didn't-vote-for is an epic DISASTER in the grand scheme of things. I simply disagree with that notion.
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AUChizad

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2014, 11:56:56 AM »
I think what he wants is people with PEC's to be able to get affordable coverage and those who truly can't afford coverage to be able to have it.  I am with him, but I don't see where this is happening with Obamacare.
:thumsup:
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Vandy Vol

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2014, 12:01:11 PM »
Still most limey to have a cell phone, cable T.V, smoke cigs,  ETC that could be dropped in order to afford coverage.  A person in that situation really only needs catastrophic coverage which up until Obamacare was very cheap.

This is a generalization of what all people who make $18,000 do; doesn't apply to everyone.  But if people are leeching off the entitlement system in such a way that they can make $18,000 and still afford all of that (which many are), then fix the entitlement system.  Doesn't have anything to do with the healthcare system.

As far as catastrophic coverage being adequate, that's not the case.  The cost of various medicines and treatments for even non-catastrophic events can be astronomical.  There are many reasons for this, some of which can't and shouldn't be addressed by government legislation, but it's incorrect to presume that the only medical treatment an average person shouldn't be able to afford without insurance is catastrophic in nature.


I'll help pay their premiums when I am allowed to look into their financed and make the changes needed n order to budget what what they truly can afford.  If I can not find the money in their budget by canceling luxury items that are not needed, I will help on the insurance side.

Again, this person is still uninsured under Obamacare so why the hell is it all for?

The government has calculated national standards for living.  These are used by a variety of government agencies to determine who is eligible for government assistance programs, as well as to create a defined poverty level.  The underlying premise is that, regardless of whether someone is choosing to waste their money on unnecessary items, they still wouldn't be able to afford the necessary items based on national and regional standards/averages for those items.  I'm not arguing that these national standards are necessarily accurate or should be the only factor considered, but they're there.

If you want to require every applicant to submit a financial information statement to insure that not only are they legitimately classified as within the parameters of the poverty level, but that they also don't have unnecessary expenses, be my guest...but you're just advocating that the government spend more resources to produce, regulate, and review necessary documents and procedures.  Unless the government finds some money hidden somewhere (or if they ever become fiscally responsible), that cost is going to be covered by the taxpayers.  Will it be less than the ACA's costs?  We wouldn't know until the government implements it, but I'm just pointing out that you're advocating that we spend taxpayers' money instead of spending taxpayers' money.
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dallaswareagle

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2014, 12:06:06 PM »
I'll help pay their premiums when I am allowed to look into their financed and make the changes needed n order to budget what what they truly can afford.  If I can not find the money in their budget by canceling luxury items that are not needed, I will help on the insurance side.

Again, this person is still uninsured under Obamacare so why the hell is it all for?


Sorry my friend you are not going to have any choice. None of "us" are.   
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AUTailgatingRules

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2014, 12:38:10 PM »
Let me re-state as I have gotten a little off track.

If Obamacare is only helping the "lower middle-class" poor and those with pre-existing conditions that could not afford coverage, why do you have to overhaul the entire system to get this done?

Why do my insurance premiums and my deductibles have to double in cost to cover these people?  Would have been much cheaper to just pay for insurance for these people or let them onto medicare.  After all we are only talking about 4,000,000 so far that have signed up.  How can spending trillions to implement Obamacare possibly be worth getting insurance for less than 5% of the population?

It's not about insurance, IT'S ABOUT POWER AND CONTROL
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CCTAU

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2014, 01:23:05 PM »
All of this change for only 10% of the people?

Could we not have come up with a easier solution that did not penalize the responsible citizens.

And this bullshit about partisan rhetoric! I do not listen to what the right tells me. I make up my own mind by using common sense. If it happens to align itself with partisan rhetoric, then that tells me a lot of other people see the issue the same as I. And that does not make it an incorrect view.

10% people. Really. Our country is to be run with the 10% as the rule, not the exception!

And the only PEC change that was needed was for people that did not previously have health insurance. (this is about insurance, not care. everyone can get care) If you previously had health insurance the medical portability act of 1996 took care of you!
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

GH2001

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2014, 01:28:58 PM »
Let me re-state as I have gotten a little off track.

If Obamacare is only helping the "lower middle-class" poor and those with pre-existing conditions that could not afford coverage, why do you have to overhaul the entire system to get this done?

Why do my insurance premiums and my deductibles have to double in cost to cover these people?  Would have been much cheaper to just pay for insurance for these people or let them onto medicare.  After all we are only talking about 4,000,000 so far that have signed up.  How can spending trillions to implement Obamacare possibly be worth getting insurance for less than 5% of the population?

It's not about insurance, IT'S ABOUT POWER AND CONTROL

This guy gets it. Everything else is a red herring. Especially that last sentence.
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GH2001

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2014, 01:29:41 PM »
Not sure how I got tagged as the ACA expert/advocate.

My thoughts:  Reform of the system was/is needed.  This is a first step...it will not be the last (program could be expanded or it could be reduced).  The roll-out was poorly executed. 

That's about all I know at this point, but everyone should continue the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the meantime.

Agree that change was needed.

What we got, was not it though.
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WiregrassTiger

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2014, 02:08:35 PM »
Not sure how I got tagged as the ACA expert/advocate.

My thoughts:  Reform of the system was/is needed.  This is a first step...it will not be the last (program could be expanded or it could be reduced).  The roll-out was poorly executed. 

That's about all I know at this point, but everyone should continue the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the meantime.
Because Obamacare is your fault. And now you deflect the blame as if you had nothing to do with it.
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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2014, 02:28:40 PM »
I think what he wants is people with PEC's to be able to get affordable coverage and those who truly can't afford coverage to be able to have it.  I am with him, but I don't see where this is happening with Obamacare.

The stories I've heard (anecdotal, but still) are that people with PEC's are still not able to get affordable coverage.  Some of the premium prices I've heard quoted were shocking.
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AUTiger1

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2014, 02:41:34 PM »
The stories I've heard (anecdotal, but still) are that people with PEC's are still not able to get affordable coverage.  Some of the premium prices I've heard quoted were shocking.

Which is why I said "I don't see where this happening with Obamacare.".   I have heard those same stories and if they are true, then it's ridiculous the amount they will have to pay.  I am not saying that someone who has MS shouldn't have a higher premium than someone who is healthy as a horse, but it shouldn't be so astronomical they have to struggle to pay the bills.  How we get there, I have no clue, but it's something that I would like to see.     
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

CCTAU

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2014, 02:41:46 PM »
The stories I've heard (anecdotal, but still) are that people with PEC's are still not able to get affordable coverage.  Some of the premium prices I've heard quoted were shocking.

But they were not denied.

See how the ONE saved them!
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Five statements of WISDOM
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friends, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

AUTiger1

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 02:49:01 PM »
But they were not denied.

See how the ONE saved them!

Right, but that is not the point Chizad was making.  He wants to see people with PEC's get "affordable" insurance coverage, not what it cost through the exchange or being denied.   Same as I do.  I can tell you though that these people it's happening to don't think they are being saved, they know they have been lied to.
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

GH2001

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2014, 03:13:24 PM »
Which is why I said "I don't see where this happening with Obamacare.".   I have heard those same stories and if they are true, then it's ridiculous the amount they will have to pay.  I am not saying that someone who has MS shouldn't have a higher premium than someone who is healthy as a horse, but it shouldn't be so astronomical they have to struggle to pay the bills.  How we get there, I have no clue, but it's something that I would like to see.   

You bring down costs. And to do that you have to address why they are high. Most know the answer. They just refuse to address it for obvious reasons. Congress and most Presidents are hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that tort reform is needed and is at the root of much of the insurance "crisis". Medical malpractice insurance is insanely expensive. And it drives a lot of what the contracted prices are for services.

Root cause - it's something they refuse to get to. Everything is just a band aid for a symptom. A very expensive band aid.
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AUTiger1

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2014, 03:18:53 PM »
You bring down costs. And to do that you have to address why they are high. Most know the answer. They just refuse to address it for obvious reasons. Congress and most Presidents are hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that tort reform is needed and is at the root of much of the insurance "crisis". Medical malpractice insurance is insanely expensive. And it drives a lot of what the contracted prices are for services.

Root cause - it's something they refuse to get to. Everything is just a band aid for a symptom. A very expensive band aid.

Agree.  We also need to open up competition across state lines and have providers cover over state lines. 
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Courage is only fear holding on a minute longer.--George S. Patton

There are gonna be days when you lay your guts on the line and you come away empty handed, there ain't a damn thing you can do about it but go back out there and lay em on the line again...and again, and again! -- Coach Pat Dye

It isn't that liberals are ignorant. It's just they know so much that isn't so. --Ronald Reagan

Snaggletiger

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Re: I have some Obamacare Questions
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2014, 03:25:32 PM »
You bring down costs. And to do that you have to address why they are high. Most know the answer. They just refuse to address it for obvious reasons. Congress and most Presidents are hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that tort reform is needed and is at the root of much of the insurance "crisis". Medical malpractice insurance is insanely expensive. And it drives a lot of what the contracted prices are for services.

Root cause - it's something they refuse to get to. Everything is just a band aid for a symptom. A very expensive band aid.

Yes, Med Mal is insanely expensive.  I come from a family of doctors and know first hand what they pay.  But, the Med Mal insurance racket is just that, a racket.  In Alabama, for instance, there is one Med Mal conglomerate that insures the vast majority of docs and medical facilities and last time I saw their profit margin....holy shit!!!  They are raping the medical profession over the colds.
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