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Elementary School Shooting

Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 09:39:36 AM »
Don't know what the answer is short of hiring an armed security guard at every school.  But, what about theaters?  What about malls?  What about churches?

Theaters, I'm not sure.

Malls have security and police and citizens can carry concealed weapons.  Many large churches have police to direct traffic.  Not to mention, adults.

Schools are a different animal.  It's a no gun zone.  Gun free.  It's advertised as you drive in that if you are carrying a firearm with the intent to harm, you will have no resistance.

My school is very long.  It's not a square.  It would take a good two minutes to sprint from one side to the other, and I'm very far away from the main office.   We do have a police officer on campus full time.  However, there's nothing he could do to help if someone tried to enter my classroom with multiple handguns or an assault rifle.  Absolutely nothing.

The ONLY way to for sure prevent these kind of atrocities is to build large, prisonesque fences around the campus, have only one way to enter through an armed security guard, and then have all doors locked inside the school at all times. 

Essentially, you would have to turn the school into a prison, which is not an effective learning environment. 
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2012, 10:06:49 AM »
This is one political issue that I align 100% with the rednecks of TigersX on. :poke:

In all seriousness, it absolutely blows my mind that so many people (judging by Twitter, the media, etc.) seem to think that the only logical magic wand answer is banning guns. Repealing the second amendment of the Bill of Rights. As if there's no consequences to that. As if making guns illegal will make them disappear from society. Cliche's just end up becoming white noise, but it bears repeating: Criminalize guns and only criminals will have guns.

It blows my mind that the same people who see that the war on drugs is a failure, don't see that a gun ban would be just as much of a failure. The last two high-profile shootings were in Colorado & Connecticut. Two states with the strictest gun laws in the U.S. Guess what, they didn't work. They also have the strongest assault rifle ban in the country. How'd that work out for ya? (That being said, I will say, in the spirit of compromise, I don't necessarily have a problem with trying to ban assault weapons. No one but psychos need those, and I'm ok with minor limitations on the first 10 amendments. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater either, and I'm ok with that. However, more to the point, I don't believe, as evidenced here, that assault weapon bans can or will have their desired affect.)

Guns are illegal in schools...didn't stop him. Trespassing is illegal...didn't stop him. Murder is illegal...didn't stop him. The kid tried to buy his guns from the store, and the waiting period did exactly what it was designed to do and deterred him, so he just stole them from his mother and ultimate victim who acquired them legally and would have passed any background check you can throw at her. Thinking you can just eradicate society from the over 300,000 guns owned by civilians is a fool's errand. Simple as that. Pure lunacy to even entertain the idea for more than a second that it's even possible, let alone speculate that accomplishing it would suddenly end all attacks from psychopaths. EVEN IF somehow all guns were impossible to get, even on the black market, this kid would have built a dirty bomb and blew up the entire fucking school. How do these people not see that?

Fuck the 31 pro-gun rights Republicans who pussed out and declined to go on Meet the Press. I watched a little bit of it, and it was just treated as a forgone conclusion that banning guns was the only solution. David Gregory smugly announced at least five times while I was watching that they reached out to all 31 and had no takers. WHY DO THIS? This implies heavily that the right to bear arms is indefensible when juxtaposed with a real-life scenario. Why not bring up all of these points that my dumb ass can clearly see? Why not rant about how if they allowed teachers to carry, they could have stopped this fucking psycho after the first shot? WHY FORFEIT THE DEBATE???

And speaking of Meet the Press, Bloomberg is a fucking fascist. It seems like he literally gets off from controlling people. Like he inhales deeply and has a tantric orgasm because he may get to take a constitutional right away like he did with evil large sodas.

People trying to blame video games, violent movies, and rap music: fuck you. This kid didn't partake in any of that. Most of these psychos didn't. Scapegoat cop-out, plain and simple. Statistics simply do not bear that theory out. Sorry. Maybe prayer in school's the magic bullet (no pun intended) as many on my Facebook have implied? Adam Lanza was active in his church. Doubt that him being forced to bow his head back when he was in school (he was 20) would have made a damn bit of difference. Sometimes, there just isn't an answer. The human psyche wants to believe there's a reason. There's an answer. There's a solution. Sometimes, there just isn't, as comforting as it would be if there was.

I'll tell you what wouldn't hurt, though. What would be far more effective than a gun ban or any of the other bullshit political agenda driven "solutions". Make it fucking illegal for the police to give out this fucker's name. The dude was a recluse with Asperger's. A loner that didn't fit in with anyone. He longed to be known. Guess what, now you can't turn on the TV without seeing his bitch-assed little face all over the screen and he's now a household name. He'll go down in the history books. He'll get a wiki page, the modern equivalent. I have no doubt, he saw "the Joker" from Aurora, and thought "Wow, people paid attention to him. Look at all the attention he's getting. I've got to outdo that. The bigger the body count, the more likely I am to be remembered forever. I need to one-up these other guys. Maybe I should kill some 5 year olds, that'll get people's attention. Stop with the nonstop coverage of the shooter himself, his story, his motivations, and his ugly fuckin' mug for weeks on end, and maybe, just maybe you won't inspire the next psycho.

That's what's different. Citizens have owned guns for hundreds of years. Kids have grown up with a media that glorifies guns for generations. Every one of you old fuckers had a cowboy hat and cap gun. The difference is the nonstop media coverage infecting these already deranged minds by glamorizing the killer.

End rant.
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AUChizad

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2012, 10:10:45 AM »
Schools are a different animal.  It's a no gun zone.  Gun free.  It's advertised as you drive in that if you are carrying a firearm with the intent to harm, you will have no resistance.
A microcosm of a "gun-free" society.

Why do schools comprise of 90% of these massacres? Followed by hospitals or government buildings i.e. post offices? What's the common denominator? Gun-free environments. Ever hear of a massacre like this at a gun show or a shooting range? It's not rocket science.
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AUChizad

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 10:12:33 AM »
A microcosm of a "gun-free" society.

Why do schools comprise of 90% of these massacres? Followed by hospitals or government buildings i.e. post offices? What's the common denominator? Gun-free environments. Ever hear of a massacre like this at a gun show or a shooting range? It's not rocket science.
This reminds me of this:

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 10:19:03 AM »
What makes this even more sick and bizarre was that Lanza killed his mom before going to the school.

So what the fuck was he doing going to her school for?
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2012, 10:30:15 AM »
Ridgefield Conn. school district on lockdown right now after someone spotted a man with a rifle.  About 19 miles from Newtown. 

Chad, your mention about a dirty bomb is spot on.  I was talking about that with someone this weekend.  Take away guns.  So what?  Now a psycho will just blow shit up.  A guy in China took a hatchet to 20+ people last week.  Guess we should ban hatchets. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:34:05 AM by Snaggletiger »
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2012, 10:38:18 AM »
Ridgefield Conn. school district on lockdown right now after someone spotted a man with a rifle.  About 19 miles from Newtown. 

Chad, your mention about a dirty bomb is spot on.  I was talking about that with someone this weekend.  Take away guns.  So what?  Now a psycho will just blow shit up.  A guy in China took a hatchet to 20+ people last week.  Guess we should ban hatchets.

Exactly. Taking away a gun doesn't address the cause. The weapon is merely a mechanism. If a crazy person needed to, they would use a hammer or a steal knife. If taking away guns worked, the strictest gun control states/cities would have lower murders/mass shootings. They don't. In fact they are worse. 2 cases in point: DC and Chicago.
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2012, 10:38:47 AM »
This is one political issue that I align 100% with the rednecks of TigersX on. :poke:

In all seriousness, it absolutely blows my mind that so many people (judging by Twitter, the media, etc.) seem to think that the only logical magic wand answer is banning guns. Repealing the second amendment of the Bill of Rights. As if there's no consequences to that. As if making guns illegal will make them disappear from society. Cliche's just end up becoming white noise, but it bears repeating: Criminalize guns and only criminals will have guns.

It blows my mind that the same people who see that the war on drugs is a failure, don't see that a gun ban would be just as much of a failure. The last two high-profile shootings were in Colorado & Connecticut. Two states with the strictest gun laws in the U.S. Guess what, they didn't work. They also have the strongest assault rifle ban in the country. How'd that work out for ya? (That being said, I will say, in the spirit of compromise, I don't necessarily have a problem with trying to ban assault weapons. No one but psychos need those, and I'm ok with minor limitations on the first 10 amendments. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater either, and I'm ok with that. However, more to the point, I don't believe, as evidenced here, that assault weapon bans can or will have their desired affect.)

Guns are illegal in schools...didn't stop him. Trespassing is illegal...didn't stop him. Murder is illegal...didn't stop him. The kid tried to buy his guns from the store, and the waiting period did exactly what it was designed to do and deterred him, so he just stole them from his mother and ultimate victim who acquired them legally and would have passed any background check you can throw at her. Thinking you can just eradicate society from the over 300,000 guns owned by civilians is a fool's errand. Simple as that. Pure lunacy to even entertain the idea for more than a second that it's even possible, let alone speculate that accomplishing it would suddenly end all attacks from psychopaths. EVEN IF somehow all guns were impossible to get, even on the black market, this kid would have built a dirty bomb and blew up the entire fucking school. How do these people not see that?

Fuck the 31 pro-gun rights Republicans who pussed out and declined to go on Meet the Press. I watched a little bit of it, and it was just treated as a forgone conclusion that banning guns was the only solution. David Gregory smugly announced at least five times while I was watching that they reached out to all 31 and had no takers. WHY DO THIS? This implies heavily that the right to bear arms is indefensible when juxtaposed with a real-life scenario. Why not bring up all of these points that my dumb ass can clearly see? Why not rant about how if they allowed teachers to carry, they could have stopped this fucking psycho after the first shot? WHY FORFEIT THE DEBATE???

And speaking of Meet the Press, Bloomberg is a fucking fascist. It seems like he literally gets off from controlling people. Like he inhales deeply and has a tantric orgasm because he may get to take a constitutional right away like he did with evil large sodas.

People trying to blame video games, violent movies, and rap music: fuck you. This kid didn't partake in any of that. Most of these psychos didn't. Scapegoat cop-out, plain and simple. Statistics simply do not bear that theory out. Sorry. Maybe prayer in school's the magic bullet (no pun intended) as many on my Facebook have implied? Adam Lanza was active in his church. Doubt that him being forced to bow his head back when he was in school (he was 20) would have made a damn bit of difference. Sometimes, there just isn't an answer. The human psyche wants to believe there's a reason. There's an answer. There's a solution. Sometimes, there just isn't, as comforting as it would be if there was.

I'll tell you what wouldn't hurt, though. What would be far more effective than a gun ban or any of the other bullshit political agenda driven "solutions". Make it fucking illegal for the police to give out this fucker's name. The dude was a recluse with Asperger's. A loner that didn't fit in with anyone. He longed to be known. Guess what, now you can't turn on the TV without seeing his bitch-assed little face all over the screen and he's now a household name. He'll go down in the history books. He'll get a wiki page, the modern equivalent. I have no doubt, he saw "the Joker" from Aurora, and thought "Wow, people paid attention to him. Look at all the attention he's getting. I've got to outdo that. The bigger the body count, the more likely I am to be remembered forever. I need to one-up these other guys. Maybe I should kill some 5 year olds, that'll get people's attention. Stop with the nonstop coverage of the shooter himself, his story, his motivations, and his ugly fuckin' mug for weeks on end, and maybe, just maybe you won't inspire the next psycho.

That's what's different. Citizens have owned guns for hundreds of years. Kids have grown up with a media that glorifies guns for generations. Every one of you old fuckers had a cowboy hat and cap gun. The difference is the nonstop media coverage infecting these already deranged minds by glamorizing the killer.

End rant.

Golf clap.

More on how the media is having a negative effect:

The teacher across the hall from me has gone batshit insane.  She's already a bit of a headcase with depression issues and I know she takes anxiety medicine.  But she watches the news all the time. She eats lunch alone to watch CNN.  She posts on Facebook every night her thoughts on the current headline news.  She's 40 years old, a mother of two (8 and 5), and softer than soggy wad of toilet paper.

So today, I'm walking to my room, and there she is looking solemn.  She's holding a large poster board that says, "No purses, bookbags, pencil bags, jackets, or hoodies allowed."  She's also standing a foot from her door instead of the usual spot where a few of us teachers stand.  When the bell rings, she immediately closes the door.  I then hear something scooting on the floor in her room.  Her door window is covered with some kind of thick blanket. 

One of her tardy students knocked on the door.  I heard the scooting sound, and she barely cracked the door.  I noticed that she had moved her long rectangular table in front of the door.  The student squeezed in and she quickly slammed it shut and the door lock clanked. 

Now, I understand that she's just being a basket case, but a few minutes ago, I asked her what was going on.  She said she spent the weekend watching the news reports on this guy and hearing reports about other school shootings.  She said she knows a shooting could happen at any time and isn't going to be a victim. 
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2012, 10:42:14 AM »
Golf clap.

More on how the media is having a negative effect:

The teacher across the hall from me has gone batshit insane.  She's already a bit of a headcase with depression issues and I know she takes anxiety medicine.  But she watches the news all the time. She eats lunch alone to watch CNN.  She posts on Facebook every night her thoughts on the current headline news.  She's 40 years old, a mother of two (8 and 5), and softer than soggy wad of toilet paper.

So today, I'm walking to my room, and there she is looking solemn.  She's holding a large poster board that says, "No purses, bookbags, pencil bags, jackets, or hoodies allowed."  She's also standing a foot from her door instead of the usual spot where a few of us teachers stand.  When the bell rings, she immediately closes the door.  I then hear something scooting on the floor in her room.  Her door window is covered with some kind of thick blanket. 

One of her tardy students knocked on the door.  I heard the scooting sound, and she barely cracked the door.  I noticed that she had moved her long rectangular table in front of the door.  The student squeezed in and she quickly slammed it shut and the door lock clanked. 

Now, I understand that she's just being a basket case, but a few minutes ago, I asked her what was going on.  She said she spent the weekend watching the news reports on this guy and hearing reports about other school shootings.  She said she knows a shooting could happen at any time and isn't going to be a victim.
Yep thats gonna do a lot of good when he shoots out her lock and kicks open the door.
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GH2001

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2012, 10:45:23 AM »
Golf clap.

More on how the media is having a negative effect:

The teacher across the hall from me has gone batshit insane.  She's already a bit of a headcase with depression issues and I know she takes anxiety medicine.  But she watches the news all the time. She eats lunch alone to watch CNN.  She posts on Facebook every night her thoughts on the current headline news.  She's 40 years old, a mother of two (8 and 5), and softer than soggy wad of toilet paper.

So today, I'm walking to my room, and there she is looking solemn.  She's holding a large poster board that says, "No purses, bookbags, pencil bags, jackets, or hoodies allowed."  She's also standing a foot from her door instead of the usual spot where a few of us teachers stand.  When the bell rings, she immediately closes the door.  I then hear something scooting on the floor in her room.  Her door window is covered with some kind of thick blanket. 

One of her tardy students knocked on the door.  I heard the scooting sound, and she barely cracked the door.  I noticed that she had moved her long rectangular table in front of the door.  The student squeezed in and she quickly slammed it shut and the door lock clanked. 

Now, I understand that she's just being a basket case, but a few minutes ago, I asked her what was going on.  She said she spent the weekend watching the news reports on this guy and hearing reports about other school shootings.  She said she knows a shooting could happen at any time and isn't going to be a victim.

You and Chadskins are spot on. Everything is an empathetic reaction now. I really believe the purpose of the underlying gun control movement is to disarm the populace. I really do. Not to make us safer which is what they peddle to the messes via people's emotions. The same shit was done in Germany and the soviet union with the same propaganda. And the masses are falling for it again by not thinking with their brains.
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Saniflush

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2012, 10:46:03 AM »
Guess we should ban hatchets.

Well just don't ban the hatchet wound.
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2012, 10:47:04 AM »
Well just don't ban the hatchet wound.
Can we ban the bleeding of said wound?
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2012, 10:52:37 AM »
You and Chadskins are spot on. Everything is an empathetic reaction now. I really believe the purpose of the underlying gun control movement is to disarm the populace. I really do. Not to make us safer which is what they peddle to the messes via people's emotions. The same shit was done in Germany and the soviet union with the same propaganda. And the masses are falling for it again by not thinking with their brains.

And emotions are the main problem. 

I feel like a dissertation could be written (and may have been written) on the effects of the 1950s and 60s on America. 

In the 1950s, many Americans experienced a great deal of success and happiness and lived the Leave it to Beaver life.  However, quite a few felt that the 1950s American dream was not their ideal place.  But because they were heirs to the Madison Ave crowd, they felt entitled to a life of happiness instead of a life pursuing happiness.  And with that entitlement came the 60s movement and Civil Rights.  And with the 60s movement and Civil Rights came the perpetual expecation that progression should be full speed ahead at all times. 

We're a very emotional group, we Americans. 
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2012, 10:53:30 AM »
Am I the only one who is thinking about the weakest co-worker to grab and use as a shield?

Too soon?
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Snaggletiger

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2012, 10:56:31 AM »
Just a side note and  :facepalm:  I was watching some of the coverage on one of the networks that afternoon.  The reporter, news anchor....whatever...was interviewing the mayor of that city and asked him not once, not twice, but four times if he could comment on the victims. (Who they were...how many were kids etc.)  Each time, he told her he could not and that would be a job for the police at the press conference.  He actually laughed a little the last time she asked and you could tell he was thinking, "What kind of dumbass is asking me these questions?"  Then, when it was clear that the lady was reaching for anything to ask, she comes up wit this jewel.

"Does this kind of thing happen very much in your city?"

 :blink:
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2012, 10:58:47 AM »
You and Chadskins are spot on. Everything is an empathetic reaction now.
Yeah, that's another thing.

My twitter feed (mostly follow celebrities, so this isn't unexpected) was ranting and raving about how guns should be banned NOW! TODAY! during the day on Friday. Before we even knew all of the details. Because knee-jerk reactions are always the best way to legislate.  :taunt:
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2012, 01:13:17 PM »
I have only heard a few people talk about what seems to me to be a bigger problem - treatment for mental illness.  And I know Token will back me up here.

This guy could have threatened to kill his mother daily - but until he made a move on her, there is NOTHING she can do legally to protect herself or anyone else.  He has to make good on a violent act before he can be charged with anything, which is then too little too late.

Access to appropriate care for the mentally ill is non-existent.  THAT is a common thread among all of these cases - not only are they in strict gun control states, but they are in touchy feeley "even crazy people got rights" states.  If someone is a threat to himself, fine.  If they are a threat to others?  They need to be removed from society - yeah, I said it.  You keeping your violent son with congnitive disassociation disorder living next door to me because you can't stand the thought of him being locked up somewhere safe?  I don't think so.  But there is also no where to send these damaged people.

Go read the article I posted in another thread called "I am Adam Lanza's Mother" and see if you don't want to just reach through your computer and bitch slap this woman.

And yeah, let's pile on the mother a little bit:  you have a mentally disturbed kid in your house and you have GUNS accessible to him?  You take him to the gun range to improve his aim?  This is not a gun control issue - she can legally own as many as she likes, I don't care.  But dammit, she should have made sure they were secured and out of his reach.  I am held liable if my small kids get a gun and hurt themselves or others - a mentally disabled person is no different.  If she had survived?  Criminal charges should have been filed.

Holy shit.  THe gun control issue is an easy, politically popular hot button - but mental health care is not - and THAT is the real problem in this country.
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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2012, 01:19:18 PM »
Let me see if I have this right according to what the MSM is feeding the sheeple.:


Quote
Sources:

A clumsy 20 year old autistic kid -

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/justice/connecticut-shooting-suspect-profile/index.html

dressed in camo  -

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/14/suspected-conn-elementary-school-shooters-parents-found-dead/

and full body armor -

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/what-happened-newtown-connecticut-elementary-school-shooting

drives to another state -

http://www.inquisitr.com/438753/adam-lanza-connecticut-school-shooting-suspect-reportedly-killed-both-parents/

Gets into a locked school looking like rambo-

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

kills 26 people with dead on accuracy -

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html

at a school his mother, (a retired teacher no one ever heard of before) used to work there in years before - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57559420/connecticut-town-mourns-as-police-look-for-answers/

after allegedly killing her ...-

http://www.niticentral.com/2012/12/us-school-shooting-how-it-happened.html

with the gun that belonged to her in the first place -

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-lanza-family-profile/index.html

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/14/massacre-of-the-innocents-chilling-details-about-the-gunman-in-the-schoolhouse/

Then takes his own life

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school.html?pagewanted=all



http://www.secretsofthefed.com/facebook-now-suspending-accounts-which-question-mainstream-media-reportingaccount-of-events/

And who shot Kennedy and why?

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2012, 01:39:02 PM »
Let me see if I have this right according to what the MSM is feeding the sheeple.:



http://www.secretsofthefed.com/facebook-now-suspending-accounts-which-question-mainstream-media-reportingaccount-of-events/

And who shot Kennedy and why?

Don't forget the army dude caught in the woods and the LIBOR connection. 

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Re: Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2012, 01:40:18 PM »
Let me see if I have this right according to what the MSM is feeding the sheeple.:

And who shot Kennedy and why?

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