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Phil Gramm Speaks Out...

Tarheel

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Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« on: July 10, 2008, 02:48:20 PM »
And he'll probably be eviscerated futher for his comments (and removed from the McCain Campaign) but, by all that is great and good about America, he's right!  He ought to run for President.  Another outspoken Texan (like Ted Poe) he's not afraid to tell it like it is and fact of the matter is we're NOT in a recession despite the high gas prices.  And, taken in context, we need more Americans to speak out about the greatness of America not belittle and blame us first like the Democrats Socialists do as a default answer to every issue.

I suppose that I'm out of touch too because I believe in self-reliance not government reliance; call me callous too but I think what former Senator Gramm is saying is when you create dependence on the government you destroy the incentive to work and produce...you become a nation of whiners.

Here's the article from the Politico.com, as usual all emphasis and subtexts are my own:

Quote
Gramm calls slowdown 'mental'

By: Mike Allen
July 10, 2008 12:39 PM EST
 
Former Sen. Phil Gramm, a top economic adviser to presumptive GOP nominee John McCain, referred to the economic slowdown as "a mental recession" and called the United States “a nation of whiners.”

The comments, in an interview with The Washington Times, could hurt the campaign’s efforts to convince working-class Americans that McCain feels their pain.

Democrats immediately condemned the remarks as “callous” and quickly began working to gain widespread attention to them.

Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton shot back "[T]he American people know that our economic problems aren’t just in their heads. They don’t need psychological relief — they need real relief — and that’s what Barack Obama will provide as president."

The Democratic National Committee issued a statement titled: “Out of Touch Much, Phil.”

A McCain official said: “Phil Gramm’s comments are not representative of John McCain’s views. John McCain travels the country every day talking to Americans who are hurting, feeling pain at the pump and worrying about how they’ll pay their mortgage. That’s why he has a realistic plan to deliver immediate relief at the gas pump, grow our economy and put Americans back to work.”

The Times said Gramm said he expects a McCain administration would inherit an economy “weighed down above all by the conviction of many Americans that economic conditions are the worst in two or three decades and that America is in decline.”

The Times quoted him as saying: “You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession. … We have sort of become a nation of whiners. …

“You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline. … We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today.”


Karen Finney, the Democratic National Committee’s communications director, said: “What John McCain, George Bush, Phil Gramm just don't understand is that the American people aren't whining about the state of the economy, they are suffering under the weight of it — the weight of eight years of Bush-enomics that John McCain and Phil Gramm have vowed to continue.

“How dare john McCain and his advisers so callously dismiss the challenges the American people face? No wonder voters feel john McCain is out of touch. He and his campaign don't even understand the everyday issues Americans are dealing with.”

Here's the link:

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=0D203FAF-3048-5C12-005D97BFE4BD5DA9
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GarMan

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 01:20:27 PM »
With my recent European travels, my television exposure to US news is limited to CNN International, but I did catch one of those "news" shows hosted by Wolf Blitzer with this asshole Jack Cafferty last night.  Jack proceeded to sound-off about the "foolishness" of Phil's comments.  Personally, I wanted to jump through the TV and beat some sense into him.  I'm by no means a fan of Phil Gramm, but his statements were dead on.  The situation is almost a chicken or egg scenario, but the "recession" as people are calling it is totally mental and driven by the perceptions and actions of the consumers in our country.  If people perceive that our nation's economy is in trouble, they will behave in a manner that is aligned to that perception. 

The housing bubble, foreclosures and related economic turmoil with our financial institutions is all horse shit.  The banks knew what they were doing by extending risky loans to deadbeats.  The deadbeats knew (or should have known) what they were doing when they agreed to terms they couldn't fulfill.  We need to stop helping these losers and let them fail.  They need to reap the rewards of their actions.  As for housing prices, stop your damn bitching!  Historically, housing and real estate prices have grown an average of 3% per year.  Over the last 15 years, we’ve seen returns far greater than that.  We have a slight correction, and it’s “pandelerium”.  According to a leading national real estate marketing group (NAR), the average prices across the United States are still more than 80% higher than they were in 2000.  That’s an average growth rate of 8%.  Has anyone shared this with the great masses?  Has this fact made it to any of the headlines??? 

The “energy crisis” is all bullshit.  I can go for hours on this, but suffice it to say, the mighty arm of government and the inaction and outright sabotage by Democrats over the last 30+ years has resulted in our localized situation.  The global aspect of this would be a non-issue if we had opened up ANWR, the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic shelf 10-15 years ago.  We have untold numbers of capped oil and gas wells in regions that have now been declared off-limits by the government.  We know that the extraction and processing costs of these fuel sources are substantially (>50%) below the $140/150 cost per barrel that is on the global market, but the time it would take to mobilize and begin processing these fuel stores is 7-10 years away.  And, how are those food prices working out?  Anyone can see how energy prices affect food, but government mandates and subsidies on corn/rice-squeazins (ethonal) on fuel has a compounding affect on basic food prices.  You can thank the Democrats and other glo-bull whining alarmists! 

Combine those two leading issues with the negativity espoused by the Democrat’s in their run for the White House; you have exactly what we have today.  The Republicans are unreasonably quiet on the topic, and their leadership is failing to counter the negativity with the facts that are overwhelmingly obvious.  We have more opportunity right now than ever before.  Interest rates are at all time lows.  Unemployment?  What are these bitches whining about???  Take a look at the historical averages throughout our nation’s history.  Since 2000, the average unemployment rate has been less that that of the 90s, and the unemployment rate of the 90s was even less than that of the 80s.  Take a look at the historical averages and the current situation across Europe.  We’re still at the top of the food chain.  Western Europe has been averaging above 8% for the past several years, and Eastern Europe has been close to twice that number.  And, don’t get me started on our standard of living!  How many TVs do you have?  How many TV stations do you have?  What about VCRs and DVRs?  How many cars do you have?  How many refrigerators do you have?  How big is your house compared to the house where you were raised???  (You should see the Cracker Jack shacks these people live in Europe…  They can hear and smell their neighbor’s farts through their paper-thin walls in their little tiny houses, but they’re so much better than us.  I love picking on the Euro-trash elite.) 

Speaking of Euro-trash, I did get into a somewhat heated discussion with one of these European elitists the other day.  He used this term in front of me that set me off, Ameristocracy.  What the fuck is that?  He brought up things like racism, sexism and wealth.  All of which I shot down and showed how Europeans are even more elitist and prejudice than Americans in those areas.  He seemed to agree with me.  I still don’t understand everything that he was trying to say in his broken Euro-English, but I politely put him in his place.  When he spoke poorly of the US dollar, I explained how Europe had to unify it’s currency and establish common economic policies across borders to compete on the global markets.  Europe also has the advantage of expansion and profiteering into developing nations that are right down the street.  Of course, I’m speaking of the former Communist Block nations like Poland and Czech Republic.  Companies that are expanding into those markets are seeing 30% growth in their investments.  He actually agreed with me. 

By the way, I learned that you shouldn’t bring up the French in these discussions.  He couldn’t say a nice thing about the French.  I thought that we only we hated the French, but that’s not true at all.  Apparently, everyone hates the French.  The rest of the evening was filled with French bashing which turned out to be a lot of fun…   
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 03:39:42 PM »
Phil Graham is a complete dumbshit for saying this, right or wrong. The ones he will "win over" with this kind of talk are already in McCains camp. He needs to learn to stfu and stay behind the scenes, where he fucking belongs,  if he isn't fired.


Newt Gingrich argued the point very well on Fox the other night. Middle class Americans are getting pinched hard in a lot of areas and are complaining about it. To call that whining is bullshit when you are not one of the ones being pinched. No, there's not a recession. There is a big pinch going on and people are going to bitch about it. Yes, we as Americans, are spoiled, and it can be construed as whining. You might want to find a different way to dress it up though when you are trying to win the votes of the accused whiners. A complete dumbshit statement that can only hurt McCain. 
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GarMan

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2008, 08:55:58 PM »
Phil Graham is a complete dumbshit for saying this, right or wrong. The ones he will "win over" with this kind of talk are already in McCains camp. He needs to learn to stfu and stay behind the scenes, where he fucking belongs,  if he isn't fired.

From that perspective, I can agree.  Phil Graham is not known for being a heavy hitter, which is why his statement is so shocking and almost silly to the weak-minded.  Again, the Republican leadership is out-to-lunch on this.  Nobody is saying what needs to be said, and when somebody does say something, everyone goes apeshit primarily because it comes in one of two flavors.  It's either a pathetically weak message, or too harsh as demonstrated by Graham's comments. 

One good thing could come out of this.  It puts the issue front-and-center and will hopefully get the Republicans to address the real situation.  Right now, we have the Democrats feeding the recession-speak with McCain really only pandering to it.  If all they do is dismiss Graham's comments, they're missing another great opportunity to set the record straight and turn some things around before November.  Let's see how these clowns handle it. 
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2008, 08:36:55 PM »
I do hope at some time McCain comes out fighting. I think he will after the conventions.
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Jumbo

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 02:37:17 AM »
I need the cliff notes to this thread. :blink:
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Tarheel

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 10:58:26 PM »
I do hope at some time McCain comes out fighting. I think he will after the conventions.

To quote from Alexander Pope "Hope springs eternal in the human breast...". 

I think that if McCain was going to "come out fighting" he should have done so long before now; with just less than four months left before the election, coming out fighting after the convention is going to be too little, too late.  He looks to me to be another Bob Dole type candidate (no disrespect intended to Sen. Dole).  Maybe a good, solid VP choice will help but as I've opined before he'll probably pick one of his weak gang of fourteen buddies like Sen. Lindsay Graham.

Of course, another factor will be how well he performs in the debates with Obama...that could change the dynamic again.

I reckon we'll see...
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

GarMan

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2008, 07:12:26 AM »
I need the cliff notes to this thread. :blink:

Average American = Whiney little bitch

Graham's comments = Too strong for whiney little bitches

Fuck 'em!
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My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.  - Winston Churchill

Eating and sleeping are the only activities that should be allowed to interrupt a man's enjoyment of his cigar.  - Mark Twain

Nothing says "Obey Me" like a bloody head on a fence post!  - Stewie Griffin

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others."  - Ayn Rand

Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2008, 08:40:09 PM »
To quote from Alexander Pope "Hope springs eternal in the human breast...". 

I think that if McCain was going to "come out fighting" he should have done so long before now; with just less than four months left before the election, coming out fighting after the convention is going to be too little, too late.  He looks to me to be another Bob Dole type candidate (no disrespect intended to Sen. Dole).  Maybe a good, solid VP choice will help but as I've opined before he'll probably pick one of his weak gang of fourteen buddies like Sen. Lindsay Graham.

Of course, another factor will be how well he performs in the debates with Obama...that could change the dynamic again.

I reckon we'll see...

I have believed all along and continue to believe that McCain will win. I don't think holding back is necessarily going to hurt him. Hell they're back in a dead heat at the moment in a lot of polls.

At the moment obama seems to be wallowing in his own flip flops and the two biggest are still ahead perhaps. I think as soon as he comes back from iraq he may waffle on that a concrete timetable (16 mo's) like he has said. He could possibly be saved, at least somewhat,  from this by the surge being extremely effective lately.

Drilling for oil could totally wreck him if he sticks with it. ESPECIALLY, if Israel attacks Iran before the election.

And last but mostly, his tax increases will totally fuck the economy much worse than it is now. If he sticks to those guns through the election and half the truth is known by most Americans afa what will happen if he taxes like he wants to, he won't survive it.

The last two issues have the ability to totally ruin his campaign by themselves and if he flip flops on any of these, once again, especially the last two, it will likely cost him the election.

McCain can very likely eat his ass alive with these issues in a debate. Hell, hillary cleaned his clock in one debate, and performed quite well in all of them. He's not nearly as good w/o a prepared speech and time to practice.
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Saniflush

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2008, 07:19:46 AM »
I hope you are right but I fully expect this time next year to have a 30% capital gains tax and a 38% dividends tax enacted by these fucktards.
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"Hey my friends are the ones that wanted to eat at that shitty hole in the wall that only served bread and wine.  What kind of brick and mud business model is that.  Stick to the cart if that's all you're going to serve.  Then that dude came in with like 12 other people, and some of them weren't even wearing shoes, and the restaurant sat them right across from us. It was gross, and they were all stinky and dirty.  Then dude starts talking about eating his body and drinking his blood...I almost lost it.  That's the last supper I'll ever have there, and I hope he dies a horrible death."

Tarheel

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2008, 09:54:35 PM »
Average American = Whiney little bitch

Graham's comments = Too strong for whiney little bitches

Fuck 'em!


Absolutely phenomenal!
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Tarheel

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2008, 10:04:40 PM »
I have believed all along and continue to believe that McCain will win. I don't think holding back is necessarily going to hurt him. Hell they're back in a dead heat at the moment in a lot of polls.

At the moment obama seems to be wallowing in his own flip flops and the two biggest are still ahead perhaps. I think as soon as he comes back from iraq he may waffle on that a concrete timetable (16 mo's) like he has said. He could possibly be saved, at least somewhat,  from this by the surge being extremely effective lately.

Drilling for oil could totally wreck him if he sticks with it. ESPECIALLY, if Israel attacks Iran before the election.

And last but mostly, his tax increases will totally fuck the economy much worse than it is now. If he sticks to those guns through the election and half the truth is known by most Americans afa what will happen if he taxes like he wants to, he won't survive it.

The last two issues have the ability to totally ruin his campaign by themselves and if he flip flops on any of these, once again, especially the last two, it will likely cost him the election.

McCain can very likely eat his ass alive with these issues in a debate. Hell, hillary cleaned his clock in one debate, and performed quite well in all of them. He's not nearly as good w/o a prepared speech and time to practice.

Well, I'm going to have a drink and a cigar and watch the political show the next few months...
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson

Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2008, 12:47:05 PM »
Well, it appears as the phil is gone. He resigned. I will miss his impression of a turtle.
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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 02:31:37 PM »
Quote
He ought to run for President.

He did so in 1996 and was a spectacular failure...collected a total of 8 delegates, I believe.  I don't have a problem with his overall sentiment, but, as is sometimes the case with Gramm, his choice of words could have been more diplomatic.
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"If you're looking for sympathy, it's in the dictionary between shit and syphilis."

Tarheel

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Re: Phil Gramm Speaks Out...
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 10:22:43 AM »
He did so in 1996 and was a spectacular failure...collected a total of 8 delegates, I believe. 

Right you are...my bad for mis-remembering that failed attempt.

...
his choice of words could have been more diplomatic.

Fuck diplomacy!  I'm absolutely sick and tired of that kind of candy-ass politics...fucking boring!  McCain's lack of energy and enthusiasm is killing me!  Quite frankly, I've never been more disgusted in a candidate.  Even Bob Dole was more interesting!  Unless he does something in the debates to show the nation what an inexperienced whelp that Obama is he's going to loose this election...he might anyway!
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The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. 
-Ayn Rand

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
-The Right Honourable Margaret Thatcher

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.
-Milton Friedman

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson