There are still so many things you refuse to address or even acknowledge.
You post an article that grades the evidence presented. You highlight every F or incomplete, yet ignore the other pieces of evidence which received higher grades.
I did respond to several of them. I skipped exactly two above a "D" without my own comment. Both were to at least try to limit my redundancy, as both items had already been addressed ad-nausea.
A player can audibly be heard to yell "Give me my money" when Vitt informs the players that Favre was hurt in the most recent play. Hargrove's verbal denial that he said that is blindly accepted. Furthermore, you ignore the fact that someone on the Saints said it, even if it wasn't Hargrove.
It wasn't Hargrove. I'm 100% positive. But let's say that it was. Hargrove was punished, and this was their evidence for his punishment. How does it make any sense whatsoever that Hargrove would expect payment after a hit from Bobby McCray and Remi Ayodele in which he was not involved? Also, the play did not result in Favre being removed from the game, so there goes definitive proof of what "cart-off" means. As mentioned in the
article by former NFL player Bucky Brooks that I linked and quoted earlier, quote "Players have been known to shout "cha-ching" (mimicking the sound of a cash register) on the field following turnovers". When presented out of context, and you're told what to look for to stretch and connect-the-dots, with a presumption of guilt, then there is high potential for that to look worse than it actually was.
You ignore that Hargrove admitted to being told to "play dumb" when investigators came to ask about a bounty system, and don't want to address what exactly he was being told to play dumb about.
Nope. I've addressed it many times. I keep having to repeat myself because apparently everyone glazes over what I say in this thread.
I'll just quote myself.
Again, you continue to live in this black-and-white, all or nothing world. He admits to being misleading about the existence of a pay for performance system (which, again, exists in some form on every team in the NFL and has for generations), but adamantly denies admitting that intentionally injuring players had anything to do with these systems.
You don't want to acknowledge Williams' apology, and his express statement that he was putting players' safety in danger with his system. You also ignore Williams' admission that Vitt told Hargrove to lie about a bounty system, and instead choose to believe Vitt's denial.
You're repeating yourself. See above. I think there was a pay for performance, and I think Williams was involved. I also think Williams was a "tough talker" as Brees alluded to, and as you're unfamiliar with as commonplace in NFL lockerrooms. I will concede that maybe Williams was a tad more over the top than average. When brought out into the public eye, as those conversations are never intended to be, they look bad, yes.
There are express references in the documents to monetary pay outs, cart-off hits, and bounties, yet you blindly accept an after-the-fact explanation by Williams that these terms don't mean what we think. This same explanation comes from the guy who stated that Vitt told a player to lie about the existence of a bounty system. Oh...I'm sorry...not "lie" about a bounty system, but "play dumb," "stick to the story," and "stay on the same page" about something. I'm sure Williams has an explanation for those terms as well.
See above.
And,
again, the documents were "reproduced". In what court of law does "reproduced" written confessions, without the originals, or even an accusation of who allegedly wrote them, admissible?
Vilma, Smith, Fujita, and Hargrove show up to their appeal hearing, cry about not having exactly 72 hours to review the evidence, and are given until the afternoon (the end of the 72 hour period they are guaranteed) to review the evidence and make their appeal. Vilma didn't show up to make an appeal that afternoon, and although the other three showed up, they had no response to give to the evidence even after protesting not having enough time (and receiving additional time) to review the evidence. And Goodell kept the case open for the remainder of last week to allow the players to come back and put up a defense if they feel they have a legitimate case that needs to be considered...yet they didn't, as far as I've heard.
And what has yet to be mentioned is that the Saints have failed to offer anything to refute what the NFL has presented, other than verbal denials regarding the authenticity of documentation and the meaning of words. Do you think that Goodell rappelled into the Saints' headquarters and stole documentation like a ninja? Why didn't the coaches, players, and/or their attorneys make copies of documents before handing them over? Why not submit those copies during the appeal instead of walking away from the hearing and not coming back with any response whatsoever?
For a team which vehemently believes that every accusation is false and that there is no evidence, they sure are failing to present any evidence or provide any verifiable defenses, other than broad verbal denials by those accused.
So you're mad because they didn't refute any of the "evidence", and then you're also mad that they are denying the "evidence". I mean, what else can they say besides, "This is bullshit. I didn't say that. I didn't do that. Those documents are fabricated."? The onus of proof is on the prosecutors to validate any evidence they have. Show the originals. Tell us where they came from.
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