Guns Up!!

[GH2001]

When your AD is visibly not in your corner and you're looking over your shoulder?  Cuts both ways. 

Was Tuberville a true AU man?  I wasn't his best friend, but I know enough, saw enough and was told enough to know that he wanted to be.  He was happy there, his family was happy there.  The shit in 2003 was wrong, the wrong people took the heat and from that point on the relationship was frosty.  Administration made it pretty clear they weren't going to reach across the table and embrace him.  And he went insular. 

Shit happens.  I would have been fine with him going in 2003 if they'd done it right.  Kudos to Tuberville for enduring that and emerging stronger.  But even after 2004, the relationship didn't warm.   

If you know your boss is biding time, waiting for you to screw up just enough for him to fire you and not make everybody else where you work mad, how would you handle it? 

When did you know Gene Chizik was going to be head coach at Auburn, Jay?
The day he left for Texas. 

That tells me all I need to know.

Which goes back to what autr said above. If he was getting mentioned for so many jobs and unhappy at Auburn, then why stay and Fuck things up? Sorry, but I'm selling here. That's a cop out. He got paid big bucks to do a job. And the last 3 years he had checked out. And as I have said to you in other attempts to debate this, in the end the fans and players got burned by his actions. It's not as rosey of a picture as you would like to paint about him. Well just agree to disagree here.


Besides, this issue is soooo.....

[Kaos]

And the last 3 years he had checked out.

Holy Revision, Batman! 

2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally.  2006 AU went 11-2.

 2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4. 

Recruiting class was Top 20.  Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force.  2008 AU was a disaster.

Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle. 

If that's "giving up"  fuck me.  I need some people who work for me to give up, too. 

[Townhallsavoy]

Holy Revision, Batman! 

2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally.  2006 AU went 11-2.

 2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4. 

Recruiting class was Top 20.  Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force.  2008 AU was a disaster.

Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle. 

If that's "giving up"  fuck me.  I need some people who work for me to give up, too.

I would just like to take this time to point out that I worked personally with Coach Andy Lutz during the 2006 and 2007 recruiting seasons. 

[Godfather]

I would say the only time I thought he gave up was 2008 and really I thought it happened after he fired Franklin.  Did he get lax and complacent before that, I really don't know, I think his assistants definitely did.

[Kaos]

I would just like to take this time to point out that I worked personally with Coach Andy Lutz during the 2006 and 2007 recruiting seasons.

I guess you're the reason Tuberville sucked so bad at recruiting. 

Texas Tech has, for the first time in history, a top 20 class.  But that's only because it's so easy to recruit in Texas.  Hell a monkey could recruit there. That's why they've had so many top 20 classes before Tuberville got there. 

I enjoyed Tuberville's tenure at Auburn.  There were times I wanted to kill him and times I wanted him to live forever. Nature of the beast.   He was a good man, he turned out good men.  He made the players who played for him better players and better human beings.  He ran a clean program.  Auburn is better for having known him. 

I hope he does well at Texas Tech.  And I hope that if we ever play him, we whip his red and black ass.  But until then I will happily root for his success.  If we're not in a position to win a NC, I hope he is. 

[Buzz Killington]

I would say the only time I thought he gave up was 2008 and really I thought it happened after he fired Franklin.  Did he get lax and complacent before that, I really don't know, I think his assistants definitely did.

^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man.  I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.

[djsimp]

Would this be considered a KISS catfish?

[JR4AU]

Holy Revision, Batman! 

2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally.  2006 AU went 11-2.

 2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4. 

Recruiting class was Top 20.  Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force.  2008 AU was a disaster.

Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle. 

If that's "giving up"  fuck me.  I need some people who work for me to give up, too.

Try this:



You'll get better results.

[JR4AU]

^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man.  I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.

Tubs undoing was undying loyalty to a bunch of lazy fucks that thought they earned their keep in 2004, and had jobs for life, and did as far as Tubs was concerned.  Tubs thought he had more capital than he actually did because of 2004.   

[Kaos]

^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man.  I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.

We're all in agreement there.  The handwriting was 40-feet tall.  It read.

"HA HA MOTHERFUCKER WE GOT YOU NOW!
 
When we blew that lead it was over.  Over for the season, over for him, over for the assistants. 

Given his history, I do believe he could have turned it around and done so quickly.  He wasn't scared of Saban in the least.  But that's irrelevant.  The situation had reached the breaking point and it was best for him and for AU to leave.  BTW?  I wrote EXACTLY that in late November/early December 2008. 

[Godfather]

^^This^^
Just watching him on the sidelines during the 2nd half of the West Virginia game, you could clearly see a defeated man.  I really don't think he would have gotten it back either had he stayed at Auburn.

No it was done...time to go. 

But that brings up a point, and I think we have mentioned it before.  All things come to an end, football coaches are never gonna last like Paterno, Bowden and Bahr.  We are to much of a me first society...win ...win...win.

[Kaos]

Tubs undoing was undying loyalty to a bunch of lazy fucks that thought they earned their keep in 2004, and had jobs for life, and did as far as Tubs was concerned.  Tubs thought he had more capital than he actually did because of 2004.   

Oh JESUS.   

This is as bad and misinformed as any of the drivel Prowler's ever written. 

I'm letting the kite string go now before I bring the lightning. 

[GH2001]

Holy Revision, Batman! 

2006 Recruiting Class was 10th nationally.  2006 AU went 11-2.

 2007 Recruiting class was 7th nationally. Top rated safety, Burns, Fairley, Bynes, Byrum.... 2007 AU went 9-4. 

Recruiting class was Top 20.  Not as good as it could have been. The Saban effect was in full force.  2008 AU was a disaster.

Go ahead and start the "yeah, but..." if you wish, but the fact is that Tuberville signed two top ten classes and won 20 games over two years before the Sabanmania-influenced 2008 debacle. 

If that's "giving up"  fuck me.  I need some people who work for me to give up, too.

Not give up so much, but complacent. You wanna blame the admin. I think the hc is ultimately responsible. Again, that's where we disagree.

20 wins, 2 top 10 classes and then.....5-7? Wtf? That didn't happen overnight K. Something was wrong before then. The foundation was cracking. Who's responsible? That's the ultimate question. Nevermind we really haven't looked into each of those 2 classes in this discussion post nsd to see the attrition/impact of them in numbers. Hint: It ain't pretty. You also didn't look at sec records from 05 on, nor the lovely and inexcusable Arkansas/Georgia routes. There are lots of variables at play here. I have my opinion and you have yours......it is what it is.

I'll ping xaff for those attrition stats.....

[JR4AU]

We're all in agreement there.  The handwriting was 40-feet tall.  It read.

"HA HA MOTHERFUCKER WE GOT YOU NOW!
 
When we blew that lead it was over.  Over for the season, over for him, over for the assistants. 

Given his history, I do believe he could have turned it around and done so quickly.  He wasn't scared of Saban in the least.  But that's irrelevant.  The situation had reached the breaking point and it was best for him and for AU to leave.  BTW?  I wrote EXACTLY that in late November/early December 2008.

I don't think he was scared of Saban for a minute.  He was dog tired...tired of doing all he could in 2004 just to be told "thanks for stopping by the BCS booth, here's your consolation prize", and tired of the PTB circling and looking for a reason.  With support, he'd have turned it around, IF he had gotten the nuts to clean house and hire young hungry ACs like Chiz has done.  Tubs was tired.

[JR4AU]

Oh JESUS.   

This is as bad and misinformed as any of the drivel Prowler's ever written. 

I'm letting the kite string go now before I bring the lightning.

Bring it, I'll listen.

[Townhallsavoy]

Bring it, I'll listen.

Hugh Nall wasn't the problem.  Terry Price wasn't.  Don Dunn wasn't.  James Willis?  Maybe not great, but he was pretty good. 

I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...

let's see what was that...

hmm..

oh yeah...

until Tony Franklin was hired. 

That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.

[GH2001]

I don't think he was scared of Saban for a minute.  He was dog tired...tired of doing all he could in 2004 just to be told "thanks for stopping by the BCS booth, here's your consolation prize", and tired of the PTB circling and looking for a reason.  With support, he'd have turned it around, IF he had gotten the nuts to clean house and hire young hungry ACs like Chiz has done.  Tubs was tired.

We've had this round and round how many times? I'm on one end, Kevins on the other, you are somewhere in the middle Jim. We all feel the same as we did 2 years ago. Nothing is gonna change those opinions. You'd be best to heed your own advice above with the wall. Dead nuts as a wise man once said.

[JR4AU]

Hugh Nall wasn't the problem.  Terry Price wasn't.  Don Dunn wasn't.  James Willis?  Maybe not great, but he was pretty good. 

I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...

let's see what was that...

hmm..

oh yeah...

until Tony Franklin was hired. 

That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.

Hugh Nall = great OL coach, but you hit the nail on the head...he quit, mentally, emotionally, or whatever, he gave it up in 2008, and if he didn't lead the mutiny, he was a big part.

[Godfather]

Both schools of thought are right. CTT was not the end all be all that Kaos makes him out to be (he acknowledges that) but mostly comes on defend him against those that were in love with him and now consider him Terry Bowden esque in his tenure.  Bottom line was that he brought us out of one of the worst coaching hires (outside of Barfield) and made our program relevant again.

His attrition rates for keeping players the last few years was bad, we had some really bad blow-out losses, he was very conservative. He had a tendency to be loyal (bad?)

He also won 6 Iron Bowls in a row and coached an Auburn team that could be considered one of the best in history.  He had an 85-40 record (68%...Dye had a 71% WR), took us to a bowl game 8 out of the 10 years, winning 5.  He graduated players.

I would say he did pretty much everything we asked of him.  It was time for him to move on, and he did.  I wish him well, he should always be in our books as a coach.  I don't wish him ill and I really don't care about Texas Tech. 

Other than that we have a new coach. Here is a picture of him:

[GH2001]

Hugh Nall wasn't the problem.  Terry Price wasn't.  Don Dunn wasn't.  James Willis?  Maybe not great, but he was pretty good. 

I know it's common thought that Hugh Nall sucked, but he was a hardass o-line coach that churned out quality offensive linemen until...

let's see what was that...

hmm..

oh yeah...

until Tony Franklin was hired. 

That's when Hugh Nall shit the bed, but that's a different story.

So what was the problem in 01? Ah yes, Noel Mazzone. Fired. Or 03? Ah, Nall just wasn't cutting it as oc. That's ok. Well demote him back down and bring in Borges. Wow, he's great...undefeated first season. Or end of 09 when Borges was fired? Wasn't he the problem? Or was he not just the savior in 04?

Look for the common denominators here.