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Another wake up, another new twist...

JR4AU

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Another wake up, another new twist...
« on: November 13, 2010, 09:10:35 AM »
Actually, I read about it last night, but still.  It seems it's never going to end, yet...maybe this last revelation of Cecil admitting he discussed money with MSU will at least calm things down.

Assuming he doesn't, with his own mouth, deny making this admission to this "source," then what's next?

Much as I hate what he does, Finebaum predicted something like this yesterday, saying "expect to see Cecil Newton trying to distance himself from Cam and Auburn" though I'm not sure he expected a full admission.  Well, Cecil says his boy's hands are clean.  It's plausible.  Is it believable after all the previous water under the bridge?  That will be a big question with the SEC and NCAA. Know this: The SEC knows more about all this than the public knows, as does the NCAA, and Cam has been playing.   If Cam plays today, you can damn well bet Auburn still has a high degree of confidence, OR that they've just decided to take the risk because the whole season could be lost either way.

So what's next?  Well before the "The NCAA said a solicitation is against the rules, therefore Cam is ineligible, period" start their mantra...consider the past cases.  There's been numerous cases in the past of players actually taking extra benefits, and still being eligible after they sat a game or 2, and/or paid benefits back.  In this case the difference is, hopefully, that no money ever changed hands.  Nothing to pay back.  And as Donald Jackson cited, there's been cases he worked on where the player actually requested a benefit, was turned down, properly reported, and remained eligible.    Then we've seen cases where the player was simply disallowed to go t a school, or a school told they couldn't sign a player, but that player still eligible to play for other institutions. 

What happened here?  My hypothesis is, and I have always had a bit of suspicion about Cecil, is that Cecil discussed money with MSU.   It would appear that maybe he initiated these talks, but make no mistake, the Newtons didn't meet Kenny Rogers by mistake.   Whether someone at MSU guided the Newtons to Rogers, or Rogers to the Netwons...it was done with the intent to secure Cam for MSU.  This is where it gets muddy.  The timeline doesn't work well for Auburn, because if you believe Cam was for sale and that MSU was trying to buy him, you have to wonder why the transaction didn't take place at MSU, but it doesn't mean Auburn paid either.  Maybe it was revealed by someone at MSU that they weren't going to pay, and that it would be reported.  Maybe that caused all parties to just say "fuck it" and nothing happened beyond talks.  It's entirely possible that MSU believed that it would get out, and reported just enough to cover their ass, but held back on what would get them in a bind, and then when it all blew up, they tried to cast all the blame on Cam and Cecil.  MSU was trying to buy Cam.  I firmly believe that, and they would have.  What stopped them?

 My guess is that with Cecil's admission, they're, and hopefully Auburn's confident there's no money trail anywhere, from anybody connected to Auburn, to anybody connected with the Newtons.

All is not lost if Cecil's "admission" stands.    I have to believe that there's a reason he's admitting this, but claiming Cam's hands are clean. Someone has advised him to do this. 

War Eagle.  Beat the Dawgs.
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Token

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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 09:28:05 AM »
The only thing I disagree with.  I don't believe the SEC, NCAA, or Auburn knew that Cecil indeed had talks with Rogers about cash for Cam.  I don't believe they knew because I don't believe MSU turned over the information in July that the FBI is now interested in.  I don't believe Cecil admitted to the SEC, NCAA or Auburn that he indeed did talk with MSU about money.  At least not in July.  If he did admit to the talks, but swears that Cam didn't know anything about it, why didn't Auburn suspend Cam then and ask the NCAA to reinstate him?  The NCAA would have had an entire 2 months to investigate the matter, instead of having the investigation thrown out to the media for all the public to see.  Of course, we still don't know, without secret sources, if Cecil admitted to a damn thing.  So it's all speculation.  I will say though, if he admits to it now?  AFTER denying any wrongdoing last week and actually saying that he "only knew of Rogers" hinting no personal relationship?  I'll consider him a liar.  And I'll have a hard time believing anything he tries to claim now. 

I do believe one thing though.  I now 100% believe MSU didn't divulge all of the information about secret meetings with the NCAA in July, because I believe they were trying to cover up their own violations.  And I believe MSU was 100% trying to pay Cecil for Cam's signature. 
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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 09:47:52 AM »
It all seems plausible, JR. 

The question remains about how much info will be given to the public when all of this settles down.  If Cam plays the rest of the season, how much does the media say about why he is eligible?

That's one question the media has failed to approach.  Despite the information coming from Starkville, Auburn claims that Newton is eligible.  How could that be so unless Auburn was straight lying through their teeth and risking the death penalty? 

Is that what the rest of the world assumes?  Auburn is just risking the worst case scenario to win a few more games with Cam Newton? 

Doesn't make sense especially when characters in Auburn's compliance department are well known for being extremely strict in following NCAA and SEC protocol.
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

JR4AU

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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 09:48:14 AM »
The only thing I disagree with.  I don't believe the SEC, NCAA, or Auburn knew that Cecil indeed had talks with Rogers about cash for Cam.  I don't believe they knew because I don't believe MSU turned over the information in July that the FBI is now interested in.  I don't believe Cecil admitted to the SEC, NCAA or Auburn that he indeed did talk with MSU about money.  At least not in July.  If he did admit to the talks, but swears that Cam didn't know anything about it, why didn't Auburn suspend Cam then and ask the NCAA to reinstate him?  The NCAA would have had an entire 2 months to investigate the matter, instead of having the investigation thrown out to the media for all the public to see.  Of course, we still don't know, without secret sources, if Cecil admitted to a damn thing.  So it's all speculation.  I will say though, if he admits to it now?  AFTER denying any wrongdoing last week and actually saying that he "only knew of Rogers" hinting no personal relationship?  I'll consider him a liar.  And I'll have a hard time believing anything he tries to claim now. 

I do believe one thing though.  I now 100% believe MSU didn't divulge all of the information about secret meetings with the NCAA in July, because I believe they were trying to cover up their own violations.  And I believe MSU was 100% trying to pay Cecil for Cam's signature.

I didn't say they knew about or that Cecil had already admitted this to them.  I said they know more than the public knows.   I stand by that.
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JR4AU

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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 09:54:24 AM »
It all seems plausible, JR. 

The question remains about how much info will be given to the public when all of this settles down.  If Cam plays the rest of the season, how much does the media say about why he is eligible?

That's one question the media has failed to approach.  Despite the information coming from Starkville, Auburn claims that Newton is eligible.  How could that be so unless Auburn was straight lying through their teeth and risking the death penalty? 

Is that what the rest of the world assumes?  Auburn is just risking the worst case scenario to win a few more games with Cam Newton? 

Doesn't make sense especially when characters in Auburn's compliance department are well known for being extremely strict in following NCAA and SEC protocol.

Don't confuse Cam's eligibility with Auburn having NCAA troubles.  The two are mutually exclusive.   If nothing regarding money is ever alleged at Auburn, Auburn only risks forfeiting games playing an ineligilbe player.  If it's ever discovered Auburn paid any money, then Auburn has big problems, and I say whatever Auburn gets, Auburn deserves if that comes out. 

Auburn, I suspect, is going to play Cam and be able to claim (hopefully), that they knew about the previous allegations at MSU, cooperated and communicated with the SEC and NCAA, and hope that since Auburn has clean hands, that they can find Cam had clean hands, or that because no money changed hands, that they won't punish Auburn or Cam by vacating wins or declaring Cam ineligible.

Auburn doesn't risk probation by playing Cam if all that happened, happened at MSU.   
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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 09:56:53 AM »
Don't confuse Cam's eligibility with Auburn having NCAA troubles.  The two are mutually exclusive.   If nothing regarding money is ever alleged at Auburn, Auburn only risks forfeiting games playing an ineligilbe player.  If it's ever discovered Auburn paid any money, then Auburn has big problems, and I say whatever Auburn gets, Auburn deserves if that comes out. 

Auburn, I suspect, is going to play Cam and be able to claim (hopefully), that they knew about the previous allegations at MSU, cooperated and communicated with the SEC and NCAA, and hope that since Auburn has clean hands, that they can find Cam had clean hands, or that because no money changed hands, that they won't punish Auburn or Cam by vacating wins or declaring Cam ineligible.

Auburn doesn't risk probation by playing Cam if all that happened, happened at MSU.   

I think this is where my personal feelings conflict with the NCAA rulebook.

If Cam is declared ineligible and, as you say, we only have to "forfeit all of our games," then this season and quite frankly, my status as an Auburn fan is ruined.

Why continue to support something that can so easily be ruined thanks to a shitty father simply discussing money with a shitty agent representing a shitty school? 

I'm not so much worried about Auburn going on probation as I am seeing this all go away and this season continue to be magical.
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The Guy That Knows Nothing of Hyperbole

JR4AU

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Re: Another wake up, another new twist...
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 10:04:05 AM »
I think this is where my personal feelings conflict with the NCAA rulebook.

If Cam is declared ineligible and, as you say, we only have to "forfeit all of our games," then this season and quite frankly, my status as an Auburn fan is ruined.

Why continue to support something that can so easily be ruined thanks to a shitty father simply discussing money with a shitty agent representing a shitty school? 

I'm not so much worried about Auburn going on probation as I am seeing this all go away and this season continue to be magical.

The difference in what you say is that Auburn has culpability if it's ever discovered they paid...in the other, it's simply bad luck, or maybe some bad risk taking having known the problem could arise when they signed him...but it's not being dirty.  If it's discovered Auburn paid for Cam, and they get hammered...I'll probably come back one day, but in my eyes that make Auburn as bad as Bammer, and I want no part of that...that said, Auburn isn't just a football team.  I'll still love Auburn, but football will probably be a distant memory for me for a while. 

I'll still stand by Auburn in this.   
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