Religion Poll

[Kaos]

Fair enough, but I thought they were prominent American figures with quotes that would be shocking coming from a President today. Those you mentioned besides Roosevelt all appear on US currency. Roosevelt's on Mt. Rushmore. That's got to count for something.
I think you confused my position (in the third party thread I am referencing here). That is probably my fault, since it may be unclear as to the context of that post. Basically jad was implying that our founding fathers wanted us to be a Christian nation.

Perhaps it is clearer if I presented the previous two posts in the exchange between jad and I.
I'd rather not get too deep in another controversial political thread (especially the most controversial of all topics), but this kind of thinking is the problem, in my opinion.

We were never a "Christian" nation that was intended to have our schools indoctrinate a state religion. To believe that we are is to completely defy and selectively ignore everything our founding fathers stood for.

When a politician starts advocating these kinds of things, or outwardly claims to take the Bible literally, he loses credibility with me.

Now that being said, I can't see how you can look at many of these quotes and not ascertain that those being quoted are deists at best.While I can't say without equivocation what he meant, I feel like equating Christianity to a religion that is completely dead and used only in the context of literature is pretty clearly a statement on the fictitious nature of the Christian religion. I'm not saying it's impossible that he meant what you said, but I think he was extremely misquoted if that part was left out. That's be like quoting someone as saying "I believe in raping puppies", when the actual quote was "I believe in raping puppies being a punishable crime."

Ok.  I can't resist any longer. 

What do you care?  You're going to hell anyway. 

[Aubie16]

That was the first one quoted.

FML

And again that doesn't indicate Jefferson's lack of belief in a deity. 

Never claimed it did.

[CCTAU]

Hell is hot. I smell funny when I burn. Therefore I choose against hell.


The teachings of Jesus are the only teachings of a so-called messiah that were written down within what would be a normal lifetime. (mohammed was not written about until 300 years after his death. Mohammed has a grave) Someone asked about Koresh. Koresh is dead and buried.(Koresh also has a grave) Jesus is not.


If one is to believe in God and believe that the Bible is his word, then the absence of belief in Jesus as the one and only way to heaven is to CHOOSE hell.

A loving God sent a WAY to heaven. He does not send souls to hell, souls choose hell.


It is very easy to NOT believe. That is why so many more souls will be in hell than in heaven. Also the reason for Judaism being so small is that they reject Christ even though they are God's chosen people. They believe in the Bible up to a point and that is hard for people to join in on. If you believe in the Bible, then how can you not believe in all of it? People ask this question and logically choose against Judaism.

Christianity is NOT the belief that Jesus is the son of God.(the demons believe that and tremble- James) It is the belief than Jesus is the son of God and HE is the ONLY way to heaven. We have been redefining the term so much that folks forget the true definition.


Ogre. Hang in there. Living life for him is difficult but rewarding. As you get older, you will yearn for that reward.

[wesfau2]

Also the reason for Judaism being so small is that they reject Christ even though they are God's chosen people. They believe in the Bible up to a point and that is hard for people to join in on. If you believe in the Bible, then how can you not believe in all of it? People ask this question and logically choose against Judaism.

Leaving aside the "why people choose against Judaism" nonsense, the Jews believe in the half of the Bible that was written first.  Their beliefs were pretty well established when all  the new-fangled Jesus hippies started writing down their tales.

[Godfather]

Ok this is tongue in cheek...so because this is a serious topic...please do not take offense.

Agnostic...Isn't this the Prowler of religious views...I believe in God unless I don't.  I don't get it?

[AUChizad]

Leaving aside the "why people choose against Judaism" nonsense, the Jews believe in the half of the Bible that was written first.  Their beliefs were pretty well established when all  the new-fangled Jesus hippies started writing down their tales.

CCTAU, apparently you should be Mormon. You do know the Bible is a trilogy, right?

I know, I know, that Book of Mormon was written much later by different people, and it contains a bunch of far fetched ideas.

So say the Jews about the New Testament.

[AUChizad]

Someone asked about Koresh. Koresh is dead and buried.(Koresh also has a grave) Jesus is not.

I preface this with I'm not trying to offend here, only discuss. I assume if you've read this far, you're open to discussion that could potentially be offensive.

But how do you know unequivocally that Jesus isn't "dead and buried"?

Is it impossible for the disciples to have invaded his tomb? I'm sure you think it to be. I find it to be a more reasonable explanation than him ascending to heaven (while no one was looking).

The difference is, you believe that a 2,000 year old text is infallible. I do not. People believed the earth was flat 2,000 years ago. I think they would believe David Blaine had powers from God too.

[GH2001]

CCTAU, apparently you should be Mormon. You do know the Bible is a trilogy, right?

I know, I know, that Book of Mormon was written much later by different people, and it contains a bunch of far fetched ideas.

So say the Jews about the New Testament.

The mormon leaders (Young, etc) did nothing to prove what they were saying. Someone else did.

And kudos to you and wes for at least meeting us in the middle here. Mud slinging will get the understanding no where whilst constructive debate is always good. Perciate it fellas - good arguments Im seeing in the last 2-3 pages.

[RWS]

I am an agnostic in the fact that I have no idea whether god exists or not. I'm not going to deny the existence of god, just like I am not going to say that he certainly exists. I don't have a clue.

I believe that IF there is an "all knowing, all loving" god, like many religions claim, surely he won't send 2/3rd's of the world to hell for not believing in the correct religion. I have no idea which religion is right, or if any of them are right.

If there is a god, I would like to think that I will get into heaven by living a good life and adhering to the golden rule, and other basic rules of humanity.

I am the same way, for the most part. Between being in a fire department, and working at a police department, I see alot of poop; alot of poop dealing with people's lives. I think everything happens for a reason. Sometimes we just don't know for a long time why. If these events are controlled, or guided by, a higher being, I have no idea. I would like to think so. But then again, it could just all be chance and coincidence. I went to church until I was 7 or 8. My parents never made me go, they always gave me the choice. I decided I didn't want to go anymore, so they never forced me to go. I haven't really been back since. I feel that I don't need a church to tell me what to believe, or what I should do. I've read the Bible, and like you, I feel that if the God I have read of does in fact exist, I can't imagine him turning his back on me just because I didn't go to church.

I also do not believe there really is a "right" or "wrong" religion. Believing in this religion will get you to heaven, but believing in that religion will send you to hell. Sorry, I just cannot believe in that. I believe in being a good human being, and that if you follow that general guideline, you will be in good shape.

[wesfau2]

The mormon leaders (Young, etc) did nothing to prove what they were saying. Someone else did.

Could you expound, please?

[RWS]

Ok this is tongue in cheek...so because this is a serious topic...please do not take offense.

Agnostic...Isn't this the Prowler of religious views...I believe in God unless I don't.  I don't get it?

Speaking for myself, I think it's just "undecided". I don't know if there is a God. I would like to think there is. I don't reject the possibility that there is a God either, though. I don't look differently on those that do. I simply live my life in a fashion that I perceive is "right". What do I use as a rulestick of what is "right" or "wrong"? My own judgement, and I guess that's what alot of things come down to.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm unbiased towards either side. If it were a "Prowler view", then there would be some sort of bias to one side or another, I think.

[Vandy Vol]

Agnostic...Isn't this the Prowler of religious views...I believe in God unless I don't.  I don't get it?

Agnosticism, by its definition, is the belief that the truth value of the existence (or non-existence) of a deity is not known or simply unknowable.  It has nothing to do with believing in God unless you don't; it's admitting that you don't currently (or can't ever) know.

[Saniflush]

Agnosticism, by its definition, is the belief that the truth value of the existence (or non-existence) of a deity is not known or simply unknowable.  It has nothing to do with believing in God unless you don't; it's admitting that you don't currently (or can't ever) know.

I guess I understand the currently not knowing  but how can someone be sure that they can't ever know?  Does that make them agnostic toward agnosticism?

[Vandy Vol]

I guess I understand the currently not knowing  but how can someone be sure that they can't ever know?  Does that make them agnostic toward agnosticism?

You can't be sure that you won't ever know.  You can believe that you'll never know, but you won't be 100% sure.  It's somewhat similar to religious individuals having faith in the nature of God.  Many of them admit that they can't know with absolute certainty the nature of God, but rather they just believe it.  Many agnostics believe that our inability to know of God's existence after thousands of years of existence is indicative of our inability to ever know.

[Saniflush]

phuk it.


The Earth is flat.